Re: [Goanet] Padri Pulitikent Kityak Poddtat?
Dear Fr Ivo, There are many aspects to this debate, perhaps some have missed your scan. (1) While I agree that men of religion have a right to take a stand on social (and even political) issues, what do you have to say about particular priests being misused for party propaganda by politicians in parts of Goa today? On what is this based? Some deeper concern about the issues involved? Or just the closeness/bias of a particular priest with a certain politician? I'm sure many who live/have lived in Goa would know of the latter cases, which are certainly a matter for concern. The wider principles you have spoke about (the need for non-divisive politics, etc) are fine, but what is the reality at the grassroots? (2) Isn't it a fact that the Vatican itself promoted a certain kind of politics, and opposed others? David Willey's book *God's Politician* is a good analysis of the politics of John Paul II. If Vatican Council II promoted a certain kind of social democratic politics, Benedict XVI comes not without his own background and biases. Should these be imposed on the entire Church, without any debate, discussion or free speech in the oldest surviving organisation existing today? We have examples of Tissa Balasuriya, and others not far from home. (3) You say Christ was a revolutionary of love. These are fine sentiments. Fact is, those claiming to speak in the name of Christ have also used his brand -- if you like it -- to promote a whole lot of contentious enterprises. From the Roman Empire, to colonialism and capitalism (not to forget Liberation Theology, for as long as it was tolerated by the Vatican). In his times, I think Christ was revolutionary enough to take on The Empire, and pay the price for that. That was politics, but not of the dirty, party kind we see today. FN Frederick Noronha :: +91-9822122436 :: +91-832-2409490 On 28 September 2010 22:18, Ivo icso...@bsnl.in wrote: Aychea kallar, jen'na itli maramari vosta, yadnikamni xanticho rosto dakhouncho. Toch rosto Jezun dhorlolo. Jezu krantikar (revolutionary), hoy, ponn kosli kranti tannem suru kelya zayt? Mogachi kranti (revolution of love)! Mahatma Gandhin, Jezuchim Bhagyam ani Bhagvad-gita vachun, toch sovostkayecho rosto dhorlo: ahim’sa ani satyagraha
Re: [Goanet] Padri Pulitikent Kityak Poddtat?
From: Frederick Noronha fredericknoro...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Padri Pulitikent Kityak Poddtat? Dear Fr Ivo, There are many aspects to this debate, perhaps some have missed your scan. **I have given principles of the Catholic Church about the involvement of priests in politics. What is politics? How can the Church influence the political life for the sake of a better human existence and dignity? (1) While I agree that men of religion have a right to take a stand on social (and even political) issues, what do you have to say about particular priests being misused for party propaganda by politicians in parts of Goa today? On what is this based? Some deeper concern about the issues involved? Or just the closeness/bias of a particular priest with a certain politician? I'm sure many who live/have lived in Goa would know of the latter cases, which are certainly a matter for concern. The wider principles you have spoke about (the need for non-divisive politics, etc) are fine, but what is the reality at the grassroots? **It is difficult to judge the behaviour of particular persons in relation to some political persons. If the party respects the principles of human dignity, rights, good programmes, healthy points, whereas other parties are violating the human rights, human religious dignity, the balance will go to the best one. If all are equally good, then each person should choose his/her own. If there is a choice of a lesser evil, then conscience will direct the persons. If all are bad, there should be prophetic action so as to cleanse politics from dirt. Individuals should have the right not to vote, with due adjustments by the judiciary body or government. (2) Isn't it a fact that the Vatican itself promoted a certain kind of politics, and opposed others? David Willey's book *God's Politician* is a good analysis of the politics of John Paul II. **John Paul II influenced politics with his principles. He himself had suffered under the atheistic regime, he showed the way to be out of slavery. There is nothing wrong to influence politics for good, since politics has become dirty... If Vatican Council II promoted a certain kind of social democratic politics, Benedict XVI comes not without his own background and biases. Should these be imposed on the entire Church, without any debate, discussion or free speech in the oldest surviving organisation existing today? We have examples of Tissa Balasuriya, and others not far from home. **Benedict XVI is not imposing his political views on others. Let there be a think-thank so as to help the common man choose what is right. When the Holy Father speaks of Love, he means that there cannot be love without justice and truth. Believers are not children, they should learn to find out truth in love. Tissa Balasurya is a theologian. He had problems with the Church authorities, because he was overdoing the political dimension of Mary's life. Theologians also should learn to work in harmony with the Church at whose service they are working. We know several theologians who were dissenting, but then they humbly collaborated with others. One of them was my Professor, who humbly accepted to be debarred from teaching. But then he was accepted as a true authority in the field. He was consulted by the Vatican authorities. (3) You say Christ was a revolutionary of love. These are fine sentiments. Fact is, those claiming to speak in the name of Christ have also used his brand -- if you like it -- to promote a whole lot of contentious enterprises. From the Roman Empire, to colonialism and capitalism (not to forget Liberation Theology, for as long as it was tolerated by the Vatican). In his times, I think Christ was revolutionary enough to take on The Empire, and pay the price for that. That was politics, but not of the dirty, party kind we see today. FN **Jesus would have been revolutionary even today. Theology of Liberation is a genuine theology, if it avoids the extremes of Marxism, atheism, secularism, humanism... Regards. Fr.Ivo (Frederick Noronha :: +91-9822122436 :: +91-832-2409490) On 28 September 2010 22:18, Ivo icso...@bsnl.in wrote: Aychea kallar, jen'na itli maramari vosta, yadnikamni xanticho rosto dakhouncho. Toch rosto Jezun dhorlolo. Jezu krantikar (revolutionary), hoy, ponn kosli kranti tannem suru kelya zayt? Mogachi kranti (revolution of love)! Mahatma Gandhin, Jezuchim Bhagyam ani Bhagvad-gita vachun, toch sovostkayecho rosto dhorlo: ahim’sa ani satyagraha
Re: [Goanet] Padri Pulitikent Kityak Poddtat?
Dear Goanetters
Priests should remain far away from politics and politicians at least for time
being. They should work for the benefit of the lay people whom they represent.
I have seen lots of Catholic youth unemployed or under paid and however hard
they try they do not get sucess in life and live a poor and unpleasent life.
Most of our churches are huge structures and have plenty of rooms which collect
dust. If priest along with the lay get together and use these vacant rooms to
start some business for the lay people where someone can earn his daily bread.
Most ofthe women folks know cooking, etc stiching etc. The church can help them
to start either some classes or small scale industries. Many times people in
the locality for various reasons do not get time to cook, go to the bank etc
etc may be they are sick, old or have small children. Many times we see working
mothers have lots of problems to look after their little ones and pay so much
for useless maids. These small scale industries can plan out various projects.
One project where woman get together and make kitchen items like sweets,
pickles, or food stuff. Others can market or sell these products. Why do we
need priests to get in politics ? It does not serve the people in any way. What
I have written may not be too clear for everyone but I hope some one has
understood my message. albert
From: icso...@bsnl.in
To: goanet@lists.goanet.org
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:18:29 +0530
Subject: [Goanet] Padri Pulitikent Kityak Poddtat?
Pritichya vachpyamno,
Ho mozho lekh tumche mukhar haddtam. To tumkam faydyacho zayt. Dev borem
korum!
Fr.Ivo
Padri Pulitikent Kityak Poddtat?
*Ivo da Conceição Souza
Azkal Goyeam ani akhea Bharatant rajki fuddaryanchim nanvam lokachea
tonddar khelltat. Khoynchya pokxak zoyt melltelem, tem ami uloyt astat,
uprant pokx nivddun yeta, dusro pokx ken’na yetolo, osli ast ballgit ravtat.
Rajki serkos ken’na suru zayt, hem ami nokllot. Amchem jivit rajkornnent
vinnlolem asa. Arthik ani somajik mollanr rajkornnecho porinnam' asa.
Tornnya-dhakttyancho, nennttya-zanntyancho, dadlya-bailancho husko toch.
Xallamni lhan bhurgyancho poryant kityak nhoy? Tor oslea adhunik kallar ho
vichar amchya kananr sadta: Padri pulitikent kityak poddtat? Tancho vaur
otmik, tankam osleo ratti lagonant... Osle nare aikunk yetat.
Hea vicharak zobab diunche khatir amchem mon uzvaddaunk zay. To don
panvddeamni amchyamni dium yeta:
i)Rajkaronn (politics) mhonnche kitem? Azkal rajki fuddari soglea mollanr
misoll zatat. Lokoy tanche koddle zobab soglea prosnnank magtat. Rajkaronn
mhollyar xhar-proza (city-state [Gresia desantli POLIS]) cholovpachi vidhya
ani kola. Doreka mon'xan mon'xallayen-bhavponnan vinnlolem bhiradd bandunk
vaurunk zai. Doreka Kristi mon'xan hea jogant Devachem Raj sthapunk proyotn
korunk zay. Ponn rajkoronn mhellem zayt veta. Vikas vaddche boldek
broxttachar-burxeponn ani apsvarth amchea desant ghans ghetat. Rajki
fuddaryamni des zannvayen cholounk zay, somajik-arthik-sonvskruthik ani
rajki mollanr udorgot haddunk zai, projecho samball-seva korunk vavrunk
zay. Oslya vavrant borya sobhavachim mon'xam gorjechim.
Ponn amche modim vegllench ghoddta: okxikxit, lapitt, chor, mortikar,
broxttachari, fotting amkam melltat. Gunddagiri-dadagiri choloytole monis
rajkarnnant ghustat. Hat-maram' bhitor soron aplim bolsam bhortat, durboll
asle te grest zatat, nagoun-chorun, broxttachar korun...
Dekhun bhurgyanchea monant ho vichar yeta: Khoinche nokrent mhaka odik
poyxe melltele? Tanchea monant ekoch zobab mhollear ho: Rajkarnnant bhitor
soron mhojean sottasott duddu ('fast buck') komaum yeta. Xikpachi
poryant goroz na. Hotelamni ani xallamni waiter vo peon koso nokri
mellounk SSC-cho dorzo zay, ponn rajki am’dar koxe nivddun yeunk xikpachi
ani xikxonnechi goroz na. Itlench nhoy: Soglech Mukhel Montri zaunk sodhtat,
aplya faydeak zhogddon amchi seva kortat mhonn fottoytat… Oslya mon'xanchea
hatamni amim amcho ani Goyencho fuddar ghatla...
Sobhav naslole monis amkam rajkarnnant melltat, hantunt konnoch dubhav
dhorpasarko na. Khoynchoy pokx aplea totvamni ani mulyamni cholona, ponn
poixyancher cholta...koxem tem tech zannant. Ek pokx soddun dusrea pokxant
bhitor soron, am’dar aplo jiv samballtat, ponn Goyenkarank lojek ghaltat...
Broxttachar khup chol’la mhonn sogottoch zannot. Ponn amcho lokoy oslea
rajkarnnaranchya ghansak sampoddta. Ken’na-ken’nai lok vikharya
karkhannyancher virud’dh aplo tallo ubartat, ponn rajkarnnar apnnak zay tem
korun lokak pilltat. Soglya nagrikank mon'xall-somajik hok'k asat,
khoyncheay dhormache te zaum, khoynchoy tancho vavr zaum... Mhonntoch
Katolk yadnikank loka vangdda broxttacharacher add zhuzunk kaydo ani
zobabdari asat. Te hinsa proghottinant, ponn mog, nit, promannikponn
xikoytat!
ii)Katolk Yadnikancho Vavr kitem? Yadnikancho vavr mhollyar Devachem Utor
ani Mog projek vanttunk ani he vorvim lokak mon'xallayen ani povitrtayen
jiyeunk
Re: [Goanet] Padri Pulitikent Kityak Poddtat?
Dear Albert,
I had published some time back my article on Renovaçao. Now I tried to make
it known to Goaneters.
What you are suggesting is being put into practice by several priests and
church organizations.
I am not discussing here what you suggested. You can put it forward in your
encounters with the concerned people or forums.
Thank you for the remarks. May God bless you!
Regards.
Fr.Ivo
From: Albert Desouza alizadeso...@hotmail.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Padri Pulitikent Kityak Poddtat?
Dear Goanetters
Priests should remain far away from politics and politicians at least for
time being. They should work for the benefit of the lay people whom they
represent. I have seen lots of Catholic youth unemployed or under paid and
however hard they try they do not get sucess in life and live a poor and
unpleasent life. Most of our churches are huge structures and have plenty of
rooms which collect dust. If priest along with the lay get together and use
these vacant rooms to start some business for the lay people where someone
can earn his daily bread. Most ofthe women folks know cooking, etc stiching
etc. The church can help them to start either some classes or small scale
industries. Many times people in the locality for various reasons do not get
time to cook, go to the bank etc etc may be they are sick, old or have small
children. Many times we see working mothers have lots of problems to look
after their little ones and pay so much for useless maids. These small scale
industries can plan out various projects. One project where woman get
together and make kitchen items like sweets, pickles, or food stuff. Others
can market or sell these products. Why do we need priests to get in politics
? It does not serve the people in any way. What I have written may not be
too clear for everyone but I hope some one has understood my message. albert
From: icso...@bsnl.in
To: goanet@lists.goanet.org
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:18:29 +0530
Subject: [Goanet] Padri Pulitikent Kityak Poddtat?
Pritichya vachpyamno,
Ho mhozo lekh tumche mukhar haddtam. To tumkam faydyacho zayt. Dev borem
korum!
Fr.Ivo
Padri Pulitikent Kityak Poddtat?
*Ivo da Conceição Souza
Azkal Goyeam ani akhya Bharatant rajki fuddaryanchim nanvam lokachya
tonddar khelltat. Khoynchya pokxak zoyt melltelem, tem ami uloyt astat,
uprant pokx nivddun yeta, dusro pokx ken’na yetolo, osli ast ballgit
ravtat.
Rajki serkos ken’na suru zayt, hem ami nokllot. Amchem jivit rajkornnent
vinnlolem asa. Arthik ani somajik mollanr rajkornnecho porinnam' asa.
Tornnya-dhakttyancho, nennttya-zanntyancho, dadlya-bailancho husko toch.
Xallamni lhan bhurgyancho poryant kityak nhoy? Tor oslea adhunik kallar ho
vichar amchya kananr sadta: Padri pulitikent kityak poddtat? Tancho vaur
otmik, tankam osleo ratti lagonant... Osle nare aikunk yetat.
Hea vicharak zobab diunche khatir amchem mon uzvaddaunk zay. To don
panvddyamni amchyamni dium yeta:
i)Rajkaronn (politics) mhonnche kitem? Azkal rajki fuddari soglea mollanr
misoll zatat. Lokoy tanche koddle zobab soglea prosnnank magtat. Rajkaronn
mhollyar xhar-proza (city-state [Gresia desantli POLIS]) cholovpachi
vidhya
ani kola. Doreka mon'xan mon'xallayen-bhavponnan vinnlolem bhiradd bandunk
vaurunk zai. Doreka Kristi mon'xan hea jogant Devachem Raj sthapunk
proyotn
korunk zay. Ponn rajkoronn mhellem zayt veta. Vikas vaddche boldek
broxttachar-burxeponn ani apsvarth amchea desant ghans ghetat. Rajki
fuddaryamni des zannvayen cholounk zay, somajik-arthik-sonvskruthik ani
rajki mollanr udorgot haddunk zai, projecho samball-seva korunk vavrunk
zay. Oslya vavrant borya sobhavachim mon'xam gorjechim.
Ponn amche modim vegllench ghoddta: okxikxit, lapitt, chor, mortikar,
broxttachari, fotting amkam melltat. Gunddagiri-dadagiri choloytole monis
rajkarnnant ghustat. Hat-maram' bhitor soron aplim bolsam bhortat, durboll
asle te grest zatat, nagoun-chorun, broxttachar korun...
Dekhun bhurgyanchea monant ho vichar yeta: Khoinche nokrent mhaka odik
poyxe melltele? Tanchea monant ekoch zobab mhollear ho: Rajkarnnant
bhitor
soron mhojean sottasott duddu ('fast buck') komaum yeta. Xikpachi
poryant goroz na. Hotelamni ani xallamni waiter vo peon koso nokri
mellounk SSC-cho dorzo zay, ponn rajki am’dar koxe nivddun yeunk xikpachi
ani xikxonnechi goroz na. Itlench nhoy: Soglech Mukhel Montri zaunk
sodhtat,
aplya faydeak zhogddon amchi seva kortat mhonn fottoytat… Oslya
mon'xanchea
hatamni amim amcho ani Goyencho fuddar ghatla...
Sobhav naslole monis amkam rajkarnnant melltat, hantunt konnoch dubhav
dhorpasarko na. Khoynchoy pokx aplea totvamni ani mulyamni cholona, ponn
poixyancher cholta...koxem tem tech zannant. Ek pokx soddun dusrea pokxant
bhitor soron, am’dar aplo jiv samballtat, ponn Goyenkarank lojek
ghaltat...
Broxttachar khup chol’la mhonn sogottoch zannot. Ponn amcho lokoy oslea
rajkarnnaranchya ghansak sampoddta. Ken’na-ken’nai lok vikharya
[Goanet] Padri Pulitikent Kityak Poddtat?
Pritichya vachpyamno,
Ho mozho lekh tumche mukhar haddtam. To tumkam faydyacho zayt. Dev borem
korum!
Fr.Ivo
Padri Pulitikent Kityak Poddtat?
*Ivo da Conceição Souza
Azkal Goyeam ani akhea Bharatant rajki fuddaryanchim nanvam lokachea
tonddar khelltat. Khoynchya pokxak zoyt melltelem, tem ami uloyt astat,
uprant pokx nivddun yeta, dusro pokx ken’na yetolo, osli ast ballgit ravtat.
Rajki serkos ken’na suru zayt, hem ami nokllot. Amchem jivit rajkornnent
vinnlolem asa. Arthik ani somajik mollanr rajkornnecho porinnam' asa.
Tornnya-dhakttyancho, nennttya-zanntyancho, dadlya-bailancho husko toch.
Xallamni lhan bhurgyancho poryant kityak nhoy? Tor oslea adhunik kallar ho
vichar amchya kananr sadta: Padri pulitikent kityak poddtat? Tancho vaur
otmik, tankam osleo ratti lagonant... Osle nare aikunk yetat.
Hea vicharak zobab diunche khatir amchem mon uzvaddaunk zay. To don
panvddeamni amchyamni dium yeta:
i)Rajkaronn (politics) mhonnche kitem? Azkal rajki fuddari soglea mollanr
misoll zatat. Lokoy tanche koddle zobab soglea prosnnank magtat. Rajkaronn
mhollyar xhar-proza (city-state [Gresia desantli POLIS]) cholovpachi vidhya
ani kola. Doreka mon'xan mon'xallayen-bhavponnan vinnlolem bhiradd bandunk
vaurunk zai. Doreka Kristi mon'xan hea jogant Devachem Raj sthapunk proyotn
korunk zay. Ponn rajkoronn mhellem zayt veta. Vikas vaddche boldek
broxttachar-burxeponn ani apsvarth amchea desant ghans ghetat. Rajki
fuddaryamni des zannvayen cholounk zay, somajik-arthik-sonvskruthik ani
rajki mollanr udorgot haddunk zai, projecho samball-seva korunk vavrunk
zay. Oslya vavrant borya sobhavachim mon'xam gorjechim.
Ponn amche modim vegllench ghoddta: okxikxit, lapitt, chor, mortikar,
broxttachari, fotting amkam melltat. Gunddagiri-dadagiri choloytole monis
rajkarnnant ghustat. Hat-maram' bhitor soron aplim bolsam bhortat, durboll
asle te grest zatat, nagoun-chorun, broxttachar korun...
Dekhun bhurgyanchea monant ho vichar yeta: Khoinche nokrent mhaka odik
poyxe melltele? Tanchea monant ekoch zobab mhollear ho: Rajkarnnant bhitor
soron mhojean sottasott duddu ('fast buck') komaum yeta. Xikpachi
poryant goroz na. Hotelamni ani xallamni waiter vo peon koso nokri
mellounk SSC-cho dorzo zay, ponn rajki am’dar koxe nivddun yeunk xikpachi
ani xikxonnechi goroz na. Itlench nhoy: Soglech Mukhel Montri zaunk sodhtat,
aplya faydeak zhogddon amchi seva kortat mhonn fottoytat… Oslya mon'xanchea
hatamni amim amcho ani Goyencho fuddar ghatla...
Sobhav naslole monis amkam rajkarnnant melltat, hantunt konnoch dubhav
dhorpasarko na. Khoynchoy pokx aplea totvamni ani mulyamni cholona, ponn
poixyancher cholta...koxem tem tech zannant. Ek pokx soddun dusrea pokxant
bhitor soron, am’dar aplo jiv samballtat, ponn Goyenkarank lojek ghaltat...
Broxttachar khup chol’la mhonn sogottoch zannot. Ponn amcho lokoy oslea
rajkarnnaranchya ghansak sampoddta. Ken’na-ken’nai lok vikharya
karkhannyancher virud’dh aplo tallo ubartat, ponn rajkarnnar apnnak zay tem
korun lokak pilltat. Soglya nagrikank mon'xall-somajik hok'k asat,
khoyncheay dhormache te zaum, khoynchoy tancho vavr zaum... Mhonntoch
Katolk yadnikank loka vangdda broxttacharacher add zhuzunk kaydo ani
zobabdari asat. Te hinsa proghottinant, ponn mog, nit, promannikponn
xikoytat!
ii)Katolk Yadnikancho Vavr kitem? Yadnikancho vavr mhollyar Devachem Utor
ani Mog projek vanttunk ani he vorvim lokak mon'xallayen ani povitrtayen
jiyeunk adar diunk. Tancho vavr pujaryancho, mondirachea char vonntim
modim sompta, toslo nhoy, ponn sobhemazar Devachea Utrachea uzvaddan ani
Sonvskaranchea bollan mogache ani nitiche govay koxe jiyeunk. Devachi puja
korunk mhollyar mon'xanchem vorteponn rakhunk ani tanche mon'xall hok'k
samballunk. Ho tancho 'otmik', dhormsevent rig ghetolo vaur. Devacho onod
mhollear jivo monis (Gloria Dei homo vivens), oxem Lyons-cho Bhag.Irinev
amkam sangta. Durbollam khatir vavrun, tankam to jivitacho voylo panvddo
dakhoyta. Dekhun xalla, hospital, gorjevontank ghoram bandun, to somestank
adar dita. Te pokxi rajkarnnant (partisan politics) bhitor soronant, kityak
sogleank, futt ghalinastona, ektthaym dhorunk sodhtat, ponn amkam goroz
toslo sorkar diunk te provochonant margdorxonn ditat. Hantunt kaynch vaytt
na. Jen’na ek pokx Devacher vo Povitr-sobhecher ugteponnim add zhuzta, ten’na
tankam xittkavnni diunk kaydo asa: Povitr-sobhechea vangddyamni oslea
pokxank aplim motam diunchim nhoy.
Aychea kallar, jen'na itli maramari vosta, yadnikamni xanticho rosto
dakhouncho. Toch rosto Jezun dhorlolo. Jezu krantikar (revolutionary),
hoy, ponn kosli kranti tannem suru kelya zayt? Mogachi kranti
(revolution of love)! Mahatma Gandhin, Jezuchim Bhagyam ani Bhagvad-gita
vachun, toch sovostkayecho rosto dhorlo: ahim’sa ani satyagraha. Ponn
xanticho rosto mhonnche Sorkar onit korta ti vengoun nhoy, ponn ticher
khorayen aplo nixedh marun... Hem xant’tayen korunk zay,
