[Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash bereaved
Dear Friends, If you recall, The Bombay Catholic Sabha had felicitated Fr. Cedric Prakash for his outstanding work in the field of human rights. Fr. Cedric's beloved mother passed away. Eternal rest grant unto her O Lord and let perpetual light shine upon her. May her soul rest in peace. Dolphy D'souza 9820226227 Fr Cedric Prakash bereaved MRS CYNTHIA LOBO(87 yrs) the mother of FR CEDRIC PRAKASH expired in Bombay. The FUNERAL MASS will be held at EVERARDNAGAR, Sion-Chembur Highway on TUESDAY 16th NOVEMBER at 4pm followed by burial at the SION CEMETERY _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ tambdimati: the Goa review is a community blog of original _/ art, writing, music, news and commentary from and about the _/ smallest state in the subcontinent. check out the newest _/ member of the Goanet family daily at _/ http://www.tambdimati.com. _/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
[Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and seeks to buy approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs land betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas. Please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or ph+91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Whats happened to Rajiv Desai?Has he been affected by the floods in Delhi?Or has he gone to Gujarat to help the Congress there conduct mock Assemblies and trials of Modi?Unless the Chief Publicist(the BIG DOT) of the Congress(when they fared DISASTROUSLY) has now realised that all his lies against people (jholewallahs!) who stand up for justice and truth like Medha Patkar and Cedric Prakash now stand exposed and has brought the curtain down on himself. Cheers Bosco Message: 3 Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 15:21:10 +0530 From: Goanet Reformat goanet.refor...@gmail.com Subject: [Goanet] Reformat: rde...@comma.in : Cedric Prakash To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org Message-ID: 8ea78e010907260251pdef5b8co2c87a25c892d9...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 i am sorry i ever raised the subject. cedric prakash is a small dot on the public affairs landscape of india. he does not deserve the kind of attention (negative and positive) that venerable goanetters have given him. it's just that as long he's there narendra modi will thrive. let's bring the curtain down.
[Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and seeks to buy approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs land betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas. Please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or ph+91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Fr Cedric Prakash As per information provided by Venantius Pinto, Fr Cedric Prakash has said: In the Catholic case, prior to the Second Vatican Council, the position was the there is no salvation outside the boundaries of the Catholic Church. But now our official position has undergone a major change. Salvation, we now believe, is indeed possible outside the Church. Does this mean that those who died prior to the Second Vatican Council were not saved? Of course, this is a tongue in cheek question. The important point is what was the reason for the major change? Fr Cedric also said: On the other hand, many right-wing evangelical and fundamentalist Protestant churches believe that non-Christians, no matter how pious or good, will be doomed to hell. It would be interesting to know who edactly as these churches, and what is the Vatican doing to counteract this threat. Best wishes. Dr UG Barad
[Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and seeks to buy approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs land betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas. Please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or ph+91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html How very selective and manipulative can one be!Read Fr Prakashs piece very carefully again ,Santosh .No need to add your own fundamentalist massala! Everyone has the right and duty to speak for JUSTICE FOR ALLand TO ALL! Pope Benedict XVI has done it...Fr Cedric Prakash does it...and Santosh why don't you learn to do so too???(learn at least from Fr Prakash) After all, it is the first key ideal in the preamble of our Constitution! Unless you just dont want to see the Truth or perhaps you are just seeking some attention on goanet.WE certainly do have our share of cry-babies . Start doing something constructive for the country Santosh,Rajiv Desai(the Congress lost very badly in Gujarat when you ,according to you,. was its CHIEF PUBLICIST!!...who is paying you now?)and your ilk,instead of just whining against others. cheers, Bosco Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:20:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Goanet] Church Vs State To: estb. 1994!Goa's premiere mailing list goanet@lists.goanet.org Message-ID: 640743.5797...@web110308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It is not surprising that pious partisans would not see the mixing of their religion with the governance and economic policies of secular countries. Furthermore, as expected, in this latest round of cherry-picking the most important concluding paragraph was left out: QUOTE With this major Charter, Pope Benedict has truly provided not only the Christians, but all people of goodwill with a road map for the challenges ahead. In his concluding para, he reiterates that as we contemplate the vast amount of work to be done, we are sustained by our faith that God is present alongside all those who come together in his name to work for justice. The point is, are those in governance actually listening? UNQUOTE ..Fr. Cedric Prakash http://humanrightsindia.blogspot.com/ Please read the entire article, and focus on the excerpts provided above and below. A priest of a particular religion is preaching that governments of secular countries should listen to his Pope in implementing their economic policies in opposition to globalization. So our economic future should be charted in the socialist direction based on this decree of his own religious head (http://www.newadvent.org/library/caritas-in-veritate.htm), overriding the secular constitutions and economic policies of our respective nations. Cheers, Santosh
[Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and seeks to buy approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs land betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas. Please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or ph+91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Come on Dr. Barad, not you--but really who cares. Yet, you are still asking questions, although you say its tongue in cheek. So, more respect to you for putting it out in a clear and unabashed manner. Instead of others, allow me to answer. Venantius J Pinto(here capped to take full responsibility for what follows): I for sure do not and for sure do not understand why anyone stemming from an old way of life stemming in Sanathan Dharma would be bothered about salvation. I have been cursed enough of being batlela, he batle ghele, vihirinte pao khavun.. but it never bothered me. Maybe I AM JUST STUPID. Is it really hard to understand what Pakash SJ says. Does it need to be spelled out. It is so clear. And again does the salvation bit still bother people. It should only bother those who believe there is salvation and its possibility through the Church, and they resent that possibility. Others should not give a damn unless one is into dialectics and polemics.. There are enough denominations that are not RC and do not follow the Vatican. What is it to anyone? Let the Churches fight this battle out. Whoever benefits will benefit, and it will not be Indian Christians. Is that not clear? How much more bashing do they deserve. To your query, : It would be interesting to know who edactly as these churches, and what is the Vatican doing to counteract this threat. Seriously what is this? I suggest that people go meet churches that are not RC and make their own exacting lists. Those churches know where they stand in terms of their Christology. This way all are happy that they did their own work and with their own findings. It is always interesting to know stuff, but I have always believed in hard work. If I wanted to know anything or about anybody, I get to work. I believe this is the best way, so ones rewards are wholly earned by oneself. Those who read this clearly will realize that all I am talking about is that there are no shortcuts, unless the intentions are to find stuff to create more questioned and build further knowledge. Man freaking salvation?! venantius j pinto From: Dr. U. G. Barad dr.udayba...@gmail.com Subject: [Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash To: goanet@lists.goanet.org Message-ID: 4a6d61b4.14b48c0a.0b49.0...@mx.google.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Fr Cedric Prakash As per information provided by Venantius Pinto, Fr Cedric Prakash has said: In the Catholic case, prior to the Second Vatican Council, the position was the there is no salvation outside the boundaries of the Catholic Church. But now our official position has undergone a major change. Salvation, we now believe, is indeed possible outside the Church. Does this mean that those who died prior to the Second Vatican Council were not saved? Of course, this is a tongue in cheek question. The important point is what was the reason for the major change? Fr Cedric also said: On the other hand, many right-wing evangelical and fundamentalist Protestant churches believe that non-Christians, no matter how pious or good, will be doomed to hell. It would be interesting to know who edactly as these churches, and what is the Vatican doing to counteract this threat. Best wishes. Dr UG Barad
Re: [Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash...Lets learn from him!!!
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Bosco, I have read about the wonderful work done by Fr. Cedric before. He is truly a man for others. Thanks for forwarding the article by Shantanu Dutta. It is truly inspiring. Mercy Fernandes Dallas -Original Message- From: Bosco Dsouza bosc...@gmail.com To: goanet@lists.goanet.org Sent: Sat, Jul 25, 2009 11:51 am Subject: [Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash...Lets learn from him!!! G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * --- Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html --- The person of Fr Cedric Prakash seems to be providing readers of goanet lenty of food for thought !!!I did a google search on him and am simply mazed by his consistency and his commitment in his defense of human rights f all...He is truly a Priest for our times! Interestingly Fr Prakash was at the forefront in Relief and Rehabilitation when the Sikhs were killed and hounded in Delhi,after Indira Gandhi's ssassination in 1984That is almost 25years ago! Later the Govt of India(CONGRESS !!!) awarded him the KABIR PURASKAR for his ole in promoting communal peace and harmony in Ahmedabad,after the emolition of the Babri Masjid And again, the Minorities Commission gave him the Minorities Rights Award 006...this apart from several other national and international ecognitions .. Rajiv Desai, Santosh and your ilk ..ARE YOU LISTENING???..If not convinced hen check the blog of one Shantanu Dutta..which I paste here below.. The tile of the article is really apt for some heers osco! *Learn you bigots from Fr Cedric* Fr Cedric Prakash is a shining example for all self and own community ervers. He has stood up both for Gujarat Muslims and Kashmiri Pandits. To im, what matters are humans, not religion.. *CJ: *Shantanu Dutta http://www.merinews.com/cj/shantanudutta , 20 Dec, 2006 00:00:00 IST Views:* *** *1686* Comments:* * *5* ** INDIA’S NATIONAL COMMISSION for Minorities has chosen Cedric rakashhttp://www.newkerala.com/news4.php?action=fullnewsid=68414, irector of the Jesuit-run Prashant Centre for Human Rights, Justice and eace as the 2006 recipient of its Minorities Rights Award for his work in he area of human rights in the country. The Jesuit priest was also honoured this year with France’s Legion of onourfor his action on behalf of victims of the 2002 Gujarat assacre. Father rakash dedicated this prize to Aminaben Rasool, a Muslim mother who saw her on murdered during the 2002 massacre and has not been able to find his ody. In his acceptance speech, he talked not just about t he plight of the uslims in Gujarat, but also that of the Kashmiri Pandits, displaced in heir own land owing to internal strife. At a time when society is increasingly polarized and caste, language, eligious and ethnic groups fight for their own rights — even under the inority grab — it is gratifying to see someone more concerned about the ights of other communities than own. Undoubtedly, Fr Cedric Prakash is nvolved the issues of religious persecution of his Christian community in ujarat, but he did not get stuck there as many would possibly have done. He cted and intervened as a humanist, not just as a priest of the Catholic hurch just shepherding his own flock. We need more such examples of people who subsuming their own identity, look eyond the confines of the narrow domestic walls and see the scene beyond nd react and respond appropriately. It is particularly helpful that he can witch from being a defender of Muslims in Gujarat to being a spokesperson or the cause of the displaced Kashmiri Pandits. It’s unfortunate that the ssue is not regarded as rights violation, but rather, has been pushed to he realm of Hindu-Muslim subject, as pointed out by some rights watchers. Interactions
Re: [Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T *** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and seeks to buy approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs land betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas. Please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or ph+91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Hey ,Its that you the Rajiv Desai'' guy???Why do you want to bring down the curtainon Fr Cedric Prakash? Is it because your lies are being exposed?Or your perversity, not to be able to acknowledge the tremendous leadership qualities of a truly great person like Fr Cedric Prakash? Read Shabhnam Hashmis letter to Sonia Gandhi..That puts in perspective your petty ranting and raving! I don't think that Fr Prakash ever said that he is 'a dot' on the Indian landscape..big or small From your reactions to him ,it is as clear as daylight that Fr Prakash is making a difference to the lives of many and truly deserves the alternative Nobel Prize.That IS why you reacted in the first place! Suppose you are feeling real bad about it, After all ,we too know a thing and more about you ,and who your pay masters are now!So whats the hidden agenda? And,why you chickening out now Mr 'R'?typical of people who have sought to destroy this country..Guess, just like your Gujarat hero' Mr M...whose days as a hero for some selfish Gujaratis are also numbered sign your name and if you have the guts continue the debate on Fr Cedric Prakash..only thing ,BE HONEST! The curtain is still up where many of us are concerned! truly, Bosco Message: 3 Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 15:21:10 +0530 From: Goanet Reformat goanet.refor...@gmail.com Subject: [Goanet] Reformat: rde...@comma.in : Cedric Prakash To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org Message-ID: 8ea78e010907260251pdef5b8co2c87a25c892d9...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 i am sorry i ever raised the subject. cedric prakash is a small dot on the public affairs landscape of india. he does not deserve the kind of attention (negative and positive) that venerable goanetters have given him. it's just that as long he's there narendra modi will thrive. let's bring the curtain down.
Re: [Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html How interesting? The post appended below was apparently provided to educate me, and to refute my contention that people convert to a new religion because they come to believe or are told that their old religion is worse than their new one. The funny thing is that, not only does it provide random anecdotes that hilariously support my contention, but that it gives further insight into this type of unrelenting sectarian chauvinism that we see on Goanet in various disguises. Here we are given cherry-picked examples of conversion from Hinduism, Islam, agnosticism and Anglicanism to Catholicism. All roads are selectively diverted to Rome, so to speak. Not even a single anecdotal case selected is of a conversion from Catholicism to something else. No prizes for guessing why. But coming to my original point, nearly every single convert in the anecdotes below confirms, rather than refutes the essence of what I was saying. Each person clearly states or implies that his/her native religion was bad in some way, and definitely worse than the new religion of Catholicism which he/she converted to. I give below the relevant quotes: My grandfather, every bit the virtuous priest, had enormous influence over me..But even in my early, formative years I was unable to relate to the religion he fervently practiced. Later, in my school days, I once spent my summer holidays with him in Trichy. Memories of dawn walks with him, for the ritualistic dip in the Cauvery river, cow in tow, are still fresh in my memory. I learnt many shlokas, some of which I still remember. But I never understood any of it and none of it helped me connect with God. .Anand Mahadevan It was during this period that I began carefully studying the Quran. However, I found I could not digest the teachings. .Syed Ainul Hadeed I go for prayer meetings regularly and I have renounced all forms of idol worship. ..Rajeev Menon But my faith was shattered when I came across a verse in the Quran that prescribed corporal punishment for stubborn women. I was shockedI found Christianity a far more liberating religion. ..Salma Ali Every Thursday, we also prayed to Sai Baba. At least 150 devotees would turn up at our house for the prayer sessions. Frankly, I could not make any sense of the rituals and yearned for a relationship with a god I could talk to, a god who would listen to me when I spoke to him. ..Jaya Ramamurthy Please also note the negative reason Muggeridge gave for converting to Catholicism: It was the Catholic Church's firm stand against contraception and abortion which finally made me decide to become a Catholic. .Malcolm Muggeridge Cheers, Santosh --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Marshall Mendonza mmendonz...@gmail.com wrote: Response: I suggest you read the following testimonies to understand better. http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?238770 http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?238771 You may also read Malcolm Muggeridge's book Conversion on the influence of Mother Teresa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Muggeridge Also check Tony Blair's testimony whether he was told that his former religion was worse. Regards, Marshall
[Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Santosh Helekar said: Let us get to the bottom of this warped logic. How does one persuade someone to convert to a new religion without telling them that their old religion is worse than the new one? Any reasonable and practical person should understand this logic.BTW, speaking out against any religion and its harmful practices is an integral element in secularism. One of the harmful practices is using one's religious identity and religion to gin up political support.Cheers,Santosh --- Reply: Naked, unmarried girls plough the fields to embarrass the gods into sending rain (DNAIndia) http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_naked-unmarried-girls-plough-the-fields-to-embarrass-the-gods-into-sending-rain_1276802 IS THIS THE RELIGION ALL INDIANS ARE TO FOLLOW? I suppose this is a better religious practice than the Christian one? Should they be allowed to carry on? If the Hindus are not prepared to correct them, should the Christians ignore them too? Is the 21st Century that you and I are living in? Caj
Re: [Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html --- On Sat, 7/25/09, Cajetan Alvares cajul...@googlemail.com wrote: Reply: Naked, unmarried girls plough the fields to embarrass the gods into sending rain (DNAIndia) http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_naked-unmarried-girls-plough-the-fields-to-embarrass-the-gods-into-sending-rain_1276802 IS THIS THE RELIGION ALL INDIANS ARE TO FOLLOW? I suppose this is a better religious practice than the Christian one? Should they be allowed to carry on? If the Hindus are not prepared to correct them, should the Christians ignore them too? Is the 21st Century that you and I are living in? Caj -- Cajetan, if my memory serves me right (and forgive if it has failed me) but weren't you the one who was chiding me for pointing out the ridiculousness of Potta, especially the excorcisms? Can you tell us know how is this different from the excorcism, healing sessions and other acts carried out under the banner of faith at Potta? best, selma
[Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html (Cajetan, if my memory serves me right (and forgive if it has failed me) but weren't you the one who was chiding me for pointing out the ridiculousness of Potta, especially the excorcisms?Can you tell us know how is this different from the excorcism, healing sessions and other acts carried out under the banner of faith at Potta?best,selma) --- Your memory has served you right (I knew you would get at me some later date, I have been to Potta before you to see the acting). There is a big difference -- You have to see the broader picture. Exorcism is spiritualsm without blood letting and no offering of virgins at the high alter, plus it is voluntary activity on a person who is psychologically trumatised, no forced labour or sacrificial offerings. Just focing naked virgins to plough the field? It just doesn't end there. Have you not heard about the 'Incas' of Peru? I did write about this before, about Panjim blood sacrifice (JoeGoauk's photos) but the moderaters curtailed my post. Human sacrifice, - and you want the journalist to be there taking pictures (its just not going to happen). What makes you say that the above will not take place after this naked ritual and there is still no rain? One has to see the broader picture and the consequences. Caj. (Selma, are you saying Potta is Paganism?)
Re: [Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html It is easy to ridicule beliefs we don't subscribe to, whether we were born in a tradition or otherwise. We will always compare The Other unfavourably with Us, and our beliefs. Don't you think that we should simply let people believe in what they want to, instead of trying to tell others how wrong they are? More so, when their beliefs don't imping on us in any manner whatsoever? FN 2009/7/25 Cajetan Alvares cajul...@googlemail.com: (Cajetan, if my memory serves me right (and forgive if it has failed me) but weren't you the one who was chiding me for pointing out the ridiculousness of Potta, especially the excorcisms?Can you tell us know how is this different from the excorcism, healing sessions and other acts carried out under the banner of faith at Potta?best,selma) --- Your memory has served you right (I knew you would get at me some later date, I have been to Potta before you to see the acting). There is a big difference -- You have to see the broader picture.
Re: [Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html --- On Sat, 7/25/09, Cajetan Alvares cajul...@googlemail.com wrote: Your memory has served you right (I knew you would get at me some later date, I have been to Potta before you to see the acting). There is a big difference -- You have to see the broader picture. -- Ah, I've always said I have a long memory on Goanet :-) Now, let me put in as succintly as I can: 1. Men believe, making young girls dance naked, will appease the rain-God. 2. Men believe, letting young girls have convulsions, will rid them of the devil possessing their body. Is there any tangible difference between the two? No, both are irrational beliefs and the reason we know they are irrational is because our body of knowledge has expanded. It is just a matter of educating people to expand their body of knowledge. With education comes change. Best, Selma
[Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash...Lets learn from him!!!
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html The person of Fr Cedric Prakash seems to be providing readers of goanet plenty of food for thought !!!I did a google search on him and am simply amazed by his consistency and his commitment in his defense of human rights of all...He is truly a Priest for our times! Interestingly Fr Prakash was at the forefront in Relief and Rehabilitation ,when the Sikhs were killed and hounded in Delhi,after Indira Gandhi's assassination in 1984That is almost 25years ago! Later the Govt of India(CONGRESS!!!) awarded him the KABIR PURASKAR for his role in promoting communal peace and harmony in Ahmedabad,after the demolition of the Babri Masjid And again, the Minorities Commission gave him the Minorities Rights Award 2006...this apart from several other national and international recognitions .. Rajiv Desai, Santosh and your ilk ..ARE YOU LISTENING???..If not convinced then check the blog of one Shantanu Dutta..which I paste here below.. The tile of the article is really apt for some Cheers Bosco! *Learn you bigots from Fr Cedric* Fr Cedric Prakash is a shining example for all self and own community servers. He has stood up both for Gujarat Muslims and Kashmiri Pandits. To him, what matters are humans, not religion.. *CJ: *Shantanu Dutta http://www.merinews.com/cj/shantanudutta , 20 Dec, 2006 00:00:00 IST Views:* *** *1686* Comments:* * *5* ** INDIA’S NATIONAL COMMISSION for Minorities has chosen Cedric Prakashhttp://www.newkerala.com/news4.php?action=fullnewsid=68414, director of the Jesuit-run Prashant Centre for Human Rights, Justice and Peace as the 2006 recipient of its Minorities Rights Award for his work in the area of human rights in the country. The Jesuit priest was also honoured this year with France’s Legion of Honourfor his action on behalf of victims of the 2002 Gujarat massacre. Father Prakash dedicated this prize to Aminaben Rasool, a Muslim mother who saw her son murdered during the 2002 massacre and has not been able to find his body. In his acceptance speech, he talked not just about the plight of the Muslims in Gujarat, but also that of the Kashmiri Pandits, displaced in their own land owing to internal strife. At a time when society is increasingly polarized and caste, language, religious and ethnic groups fight for their own rights — even under the minority grab — it is gratifying to see someone more concerned about the rights of other communities than own. Undoubtedly, Fr Cedric Prakash is involved the issues of religious persecution of his Christian community in Gujarat, but he did not get stuck there as many would possibly have done. He acted and intervened as a humanist, not just as a priest of the Catholic Church just shepherding his own flock. We need more such examples of people who subsuming their own identity, look beyond the confines of the narrow domestic walls and see the scene beyond and react and respond appropriately. It is particularly helpful that he can switch from being a defender of Muslims in Gujarat to being a spokesperson for the cause of the displaced Kashmiri Pandits. It’s unfortunate that the issue is not regarded as rights violation, but rather, has been pushed to the realm of Hindu-Muslim subject, as pointed out by some rights watchers. Interactions with intellectuals and activists reveal that in actual fact neither the government nor the social organizations are sincerely trying to restore the dignity of the Pandits who are living as refugees in their own country. Many years ago, December 06, 1992, when the Babri Masjid structure was demolished, I came across a quote for the first time that I have seen many times since. It was the experience of the Rev Martin Niemoller in 1945 when living in Nazi Germany. *First they came for the Communists, ** and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Communist.* *Then they came for the Jews,** and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Protestant. * *Then they came for me,* *and** by that time there was no one** left to speak up for me.* Rev Martin Niemoller was protected until 1937 by both the foreign press and influential friends in the up-scale Berlin suburb where he preached. Eventually, he was arrested for
[Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Ah, I've always said I have a long memory on Goanet :-)Now, let me put in as succintly as I can:1. Men believe, making young girls dance naked, will appease the rain-God.2. Men believe, letting young girls have convulsions, will rid them of the devil possessing their body.Is there any tangible difference between the two? No, both are irrational beliefs and the reason we know they are irrational is because our body of knowledge has expanded. It is just a matter of educating people to expand their body of knowledge. With education comes change. Best,Selma --- I knew you had a bone to pick with me (long time coming, I was waiting) I too have a long memory. Thanks for putting Pagan Rituals and Pota in the same bracket. Belief in Paganism does not mean decent moral code of conduct has to be ignored. Your No 2. Yes, there is a huge difference, all girls do not want to take their clothes off (even men for that matter). Not all girls have convulsions (even educated people have convulsions, they just get hypnotised). All girls in that village were forced by the elders to strip if not they are beaten, I have lived in Madhya Pradesh Jungle Mines for 5 years, I know the punishment. When I was in Pota one man started talking in tongues, no one else, his sister said I knew he would do that (are you saying he and his sister are not educated, he is a business man and she a teacher). It is a choice to get psychologically traumatised, his sister chose not to (education has nothing to do with convulsions). Another woman started crying hysterically, she was removed, for being a nuisance. Another Hindu man came marching up to the alter and prostrated (attention seeking) (that Hindu man was in the same bus with us). Your No 3. Yes, our body willing to except knowledge should be educated. But who will take on that task? Certainly the Hindus have not done that as yet (2009), instead they kill the missionaries who try to educate them. Shouldn't the educated Hindus instead of going to the Banaras or the Himalayas for personal purification of going to heaven, help the priests (I mean to at least tell the people that these Priests do not BITE and see for themselves too that these priests do not instigate violence; instead they choose to talk big on Internet). Its OK for FN to say let people believe in whatever they want to, if so, why Afghanistan and Iraq? If Hindus do not want to educate people in this 21st century of ours. What chance have these people got? Last of all, to have convulsions or not, it is a personal choice,(some do, some dont). There are young people who will marry outside their cast (or whatever) JUST to annoy authority - these people will never get convulsion no matter how much you try, instead they will give you one. That is the difference. Caj. Selma, after studying astrology (out of curiosity) - (Sir Isac Newton said to his friends if you have not studied astrology do not comment - I have). I now know that you cannot change a person's psyche, if they are vulnerable to be hypnotised they will, Daren Brown picks one out of 100 to be hypnotised, because he knows they can be manipulated.
[Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html The follow response by Cedric Prakask SJ in an 2004 interview, may be helpful, considering that salvation (or rather its denial) often appears to be such a huge issue. It also shows that in many ways the church is in a sense an adolescent, grow.ing slowly but one could also see it as some willingness to grow. In fact a priest mentioned this to me about three decades ago. Lets hope that process stays on track. The link to the whole interview from the India Committee of the Netherlandshttp://www.indianet.nl/english.html/ Landelijke India Werkgroep http://www.indianet.nl/index.html site, which I presume has been read by many on Goanet is below. Btw, India should also consider having XYZCountry Committee of India for various countries. Perhaps a way of getting into the games, since I often hear it referred as such -- a game (Baba, toh soglo khell). Everything is a game! from: http://www.indianet.nl/iv040629.html *Q: But what about the exclusive truth claims of different religions? Some of them imagine salvation or heaven to be the sole preserve of their adherents. How do you think this issue can be addressed in the course of dialoguing between adherents of different religions?* A: In the Catholic case, prior to the Second Vatican Council, the position was the there is no salvation outside the boundaries of the Catholic Church. But now our official position has undergone a major change. Salvation, we now believe, is indeed possible outside the Church. You don’t have to be a Christian in order to be saved. A good Muslim or a good Buddhist or a good Hindu can also be saved. On the other hand, many right-wing evangelical and fundamentalist Protestant churches believe that non-Christians, no matter how pious or good, will be doomed to hell. Naturally, this constitutes a major barrier in any inter-faith dialogue venture. +++ venantius
Re: [Goanet] Fr. Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html I agree totally with Samir - quoted below. Can anyone, who has written on the topic, prove that Fr Cedric Prakash has created hatred between communities or promoted violence? or has he not rather criticised the violence and hatred? And capitalists never see beyond their noses and self interest. marie Interesting point. Religious leaders speaking on societal issues; why not? Provided they dont create hatred between communities based on religion. Sri Sri Ravi Shankar is well regarded when he goes and meets some Pakistanis to broker peace. Baba Ramdev is well regarded when he speaks against corruption. So, if a priest speaks against the ills of society, it is fine. Provided of course, he doesnt take a trishul or equivalent and go around demolishing religious places of other religions, speak bad about other religions etc etc. regards, Samir -- marie
[Goanet] Fr. Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html or participates in such activity intending to use or be trained to use criminal force or violence or knowing it to be likely that the participants in such activity will use or be trained to use criminal force or violence, against any religious, racial, language or regional group or caste or community and such activity for any reason whatsoever causes or is likely to cause fear or alarm or a feeling of insecurity amongst members of such religious, racial, language or regional group or caste or community,] Shall be punished with imprisonment which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both. The above posted by: Samir Kelekar -- Hi, I do not understand why Samir is so obsessed by Priests demolishing Hindu temples and inciting racial hatred. He has been spending too much time in the BJP camp to speak of so much hate. The teachings of Jesus is not about hate - why doesn't Samir get this,into his head? Looks like he is psychologically traumatised by the BJP hierarchy, and their malicious propaganda. Continuously harping on Priests inciting people to demolish temples. First of all when I was young, I was told that if I went anywhere near a Hindu worship. The demons will catch my throat. Why? because there was blood all over this worhip alters, obviously chicken or animal sacrifice. I still think bad will come on someone who destroys the place of worship. The British occupiers (Christians) never, I mean never, destroyed Indian temples or mosques for 500 years, why now? I seriously think this gentleman should seek help from a shrink. Every other mail of his on Goanet harps on Priests inciting people to demolish Hindu temples. Caj.
Re: [Goanet] Fr. Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com Rajiv writes: i have observed with keen interest the back and forth on the activities of cedric prakash. nothing i have read so far convinces me that he stands for a positive cause. all his platitudes about human rights and social justice are planks in a long discredited platform, especially in the age of genuine liberalism (which prakash and his leftist and jholewala supporters call 'neo-liberalism'). as leaders of the world's two largest democracies, sonia gandhi and barack obama have revived the liberal cause that prakash and his ilk had expropriated. ***Fr.Cedric Prakash should be admired for his excellent work in the socio-political arena of India, where reigns a lot of confusion and erosion of values. He is free to defend the fundamental rights of the people, including the right to religion and the right for dialogue within and without. We need more people for this sublime task in all groups of people. Regards. Fr.Ivo ...In India, these concepts of so called development are combined with corruption, lack of rehabilitation when tribals are displaced. Wealth is not created by destroying the earth; in fact, we will get further impoverished. A few people have had the conviction to stand up to this. Medha Patkar is one of them. Such people who talk sense are then dismissed as anti-development...What a travesty of the concept of development!
Re: [Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html From: Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com --- On Mon, 7/20/09, isouza icso...@sancharnet.in wrote: His social and political ministry is authorized by the Bishops of India. Sorry to note that mixing of religion with politics has official authorization. I hope those who want to promote secularism in India would speak out against it. ***It is a pity that again my statement is taken out of the full context. The Conference of the Catholic Bishops of India and Superiors of the Society of Jesus authorize him the work. His socio-political ministry is precisely to defend the downtrodden, to be the voice of the voiceless. That is the task of the Church, that is what Fr.Cedric Prakash is doing. Sorry to repeat that this is not mixing up of religion with politics, but it is Religion itself that teaches us values in the struggle for the fundamental human rights. The result is to be crucified for the struggle for the human rights, as Jesus of Nazareth was crucified... We need Dr.Santosh in the struggle against superstition, disease, violation of human rights! Regards. Fr.Ivo
[Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Well said Fr Ivo! You have truly spoken out very clearly for Fr Cedric Prakash! Here is A PROPHET for our times ,who very genuinely takes up the cause of the victims of violence,the poor,the marginalised.. Of course capitalists,fundamentalists and other vested interests will do anything to put him down.. But I am aware that he is a deeply spiritual person and a person of great integrity and courage..Sometime ago when he spoke at a public meeting here in Goa he minced no words about what it means to be a follower of Jesus today..And he lives by these principles himself. You have rightly told Santosh to do what he should be doing.. Now this guy Rajiv Desai should do exactly the same ..instead of bad mouthing others from Delhi, he should come here to Goa to do something about the corrupt politicians(seems he belongs to them)..or go to his home state of Gujarat to see how bad things are there too.or.at least to put Modi behindbars(guess he does not have Fr Prakashs determination to stand up for Truth and Justice) So thanks Fr Ivo...you have spoken for many ,many fans and admirers of Fr Prakash God bless you! Bosco
[Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html What is wrong with speaking bad about other religions? How else can a priest convert someone to his own religion without telling them how bad their plight and fate in their current state are? Cheers, Santosh Response; I am amazed at this kind of warped and weird thinking. Are we to understand that positive thoughts, positive deeds and positive words cannot influence or be instruments of conversion? Regards, Marshall
Re: [Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Marshall Mendonza mmendonz...@gmail.com wrote: Response; I am amazed at this kind of warped and weird thinking. Are we to understand that positive thoughts, positive deeds and positive words cannot influence or be instruments of conversion? Let us get to the bottom of this warped logic. How does one persuade someone to convert to a new religion without telling them that their old religion is worse than the new one? Any reasonable and practical person should understand this logic. BTW, speaking out against any religion and its harmful practices is an integral element in secularism. One of the harmful practices is using one's religious identity and religion to gin up political support. Cheers, Santosh
[Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html How does one persuade someone to convert to a new religion without telling them that their old religion is worse than the new one? Any reasonable and practical person should understand this logic.- Santosh Helekar Response: I suggest you read the following testimonies to understand better. http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?238770 http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?238771 You may also read Malcolm Muggeridge's book Conversion on the influence of Mother Teresa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Muggeridge Also check Tony Blair's testimony whether he was told that his former religion was worse. Regards, Marshall
[Goanet] Fr. Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Mario Goveia mgoveia at sbcglobal.nethttp://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org wrote: * ** If Fr. Prakash wants to become a politician he should* *resign from the priesthood. You cannot honestly serve* *both God and Caesar, ...er, Shivaji, at the same time.* ** Hi Goans, Its nice to see that there are Goans of simple minds on Goanet. Govt ministers, (MINISTERS . get it!!!) Well! Priests were Ministers and still are (administering to the people) long before Democracy came into existence and Govt Ministers took over from the Priests. People paid 10% to the Priests (ministers) now a days we pay 20% to 30% to the Govt ministers. 1, Why can't priests have a say in the running of the country if they see that the country is badly run? God and Caesar is out of context here (God and Caesar question was put to Jesus on matter of paying this Tax - if 10% goes to the church why should we pay Tax to Caesar as well - the answer was simple - that which has Caesar's head on it (the coins) give it to Caesar, Jesus said.) 2. Where does Shivaji come into this I don't know. Shivaji did not have Ministers in his Cabinet. Caj.
[Goanet] Fr. Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Cajetan writes: 1, Why can't priests have a say in the running of the country if they see that the country is badly run? God and Caesar is out of context here (God and Caesar question was put to Jesus on matter of paying this Tax - if 10% goes to the church why should we pay Tax to Caesar as well - the answer was simple - that which has Caesar's head on it (the coins) give it to Caesar, Jesus said.) Interesting point. Religious leaders speaking on societal issues; why not? Provided they dont create hatred between communities based on religion. Sri Sri Ravi Shankar is well regarded when he goes and meets some Pakistanis to broker peace. Baba Ramdev is well regarded when he speaks against corruption. So, if a priest speaks against the ills of society, it is fine. Provided of course, he doesnt take a trishul or equivalent and go around demolishing religious places of other religions, speak bad about other religions etc etc. regards, Samir
Re: [Goanet] Fr. Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html --- On Thu, 7/23/09, Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com wrote: Provided of course, he doesnt take a trishul or equivalent and go around demolishing religious places of other religions, speak bad about other religions etc etc. What is wrong with speaking bad about other religions? How else can a priest convert someone to his own religion without telling them how bad their plight and fate in their current state are? Cheers, Santosh
[Goanet] Fr. Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Santosh writes: What is wrong with speaking bad about other religions? How else can a priest convert someone to his own religion without telling them how bad their plight and fate in their current state are? Cheers, Santosh Basically, there is the Section 153 A of IPC. As long as whatever one says doesnt come under Section 153 A, I guess one is fine. Varun Gandhi was recently imprisoned and is now chargesheeted under the following section. http://www.vakilno1.com/bareacts/IndianPenalCode/S153A.htm Section 153A. Promoting enmity between different groups on grounds of religion, race, place of birth, residence, language, etc., and doing acts prejudicial to maintenance of harmony 1[153A. Promoting enmity between different groups on grounds of religion, race, place of birth, residence, language, etc., and doing acts prejudicial to maintenance of harmony. (1) Whoever (a) By words, either spoken or written, or by signs or by visible representations or otherwise, promotes or attempts to promote, on grounds of religion, race, place or birth, residence, language, caste or community or any other ground whatsoever, disharmony or feelings of enmity, hatred or ill-will between different religious, racial, language or regional groups or castes or communities, or (b) Commits any act which is prejudicial to the maintenance of harmony between different religious, racial, language or regional groups or castes or communities, and which disturbs or is likely to disturb the public tranquility, 2[or] 2[(c) Organizes any exercise, movement, drill or other similar activity intending that the participants in such activity shall use or be trained to use criminal force or violence of knowing it to be likely that the participants in such activity will use or be trained to use criminal force or violence, or participates in such activity intending to use or be trained to use criminal force or violence or knowing it to be likely that the participants in such activity will use or be trained to use criminal force or violence, against any religious, racial, language or regional group or caste or community and such activity for any reason whatsoever causes or is likely to cause fear or alarm or a feeling of insecurity amongst members of such religious, racial, language or regional group or caste or community,] Shall be punished with imprisonment which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both. Offence committed in place of worship, etc.- (2) Whoever commits an offence specified in sub-section (1) in any place of worship or in any assembly engaged in the performance of religious worship or religious ceremonies, shall be punished with imprisonment which may extend to five years and shall also be liable to fine.] 1. Section 153A subs. by Act 41 of 1961, sec. 2 (w.e.f. 12-9-1961) and again subs. by Act 35 of 1969, sec. 2, for the former section (w.e.f. 4-9-1969). 2. Ins. by Act 31 of 1972, sec. 2 (w.e.f. 14-6-1972).
[Goanet] Fr. Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html From: Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash Sorry to note that mixing of religion with politics has official authorization. I hope those who want to promote secularism in India would speak out against it. Mario responds: If Fr. Prakash wants to become a politician he should resign from the priesthood. You cannot honestly serve both God and Caesar, ...er, Shivaji, at the same time. Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:26:09 +0530 From: Rajiv Desai rde...@comma.in i have observed with keen interest the back and forth on the activities of cedric prakash. nothing i have read so far convinces me that he stands for a positive cause. all his platitudes about human rights and social justice are planks in a long discredited platform, especially in the age of genuine liberalism (which prakash and his leftist and jholewala supporters call 'neo-liberalism'). as leaders of the world's two largest democracies, sonia gandhi and barack obama have revived the liberal cause that prakash and his ilk had expropriated. Mario responds: Rajiv, Genuine human rights and social justice comes from political and economic freedom, which only comes from true capitalism, which, by necessity includes a high level of social justice not for its own sake or some altruistic motive, but for the long term benefit of the capitalists and their businesses. But the individual cares little for why they are being treated humanely. What the individual cares about is the dignity of having a well paid and interesting job, being able to care for their families, and being able to speak their mind without repercussions. Capitalism provides this for the greatest number of people for the longest period of time, without any altruism being involved in the equation. The last time I checked, Sonia Gandhi was supporting Manmohan Singh and running away from political liberalism - which is really socialism for those who don't want to be called socialists after their dismal record at helping the poor - as fast as she and the Congress could, with the communists - who are socialists on steroids - trying to hold them back. I think you need to catch up with what Comrade Obama - as Hugo Chavez aptly called him recently when he said he had to look to his left to see Obama - is up to right now, six months into his experimental presidency. You can only fool so many people for so long, and the polls are showing this. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090721/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_ap_poll Rajiv wrote of Cedric Prakash: his ideology seems to a confused mix between the left that stands for very little but knee jerk diatribes against capitalism (especially the usa) and the hind swaraj mindset that excoriates modernity (seen as something that is not indian). as such cedric prakash has no appreciation for the two most transformative forces of the 20th century: capitalism and modernization. Mario responds: Now this makes Fr. Prakash sound a lot more like Obama, at least as far as capitalism is concerned. For him, modernization means taking us back to the obsolete policies of socialism that other rational countries are running away from as fast as they can. Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 22:22:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Samir Kelekar samir_kele...@yahoo.com People who have no clue on creative, environmentally sustainable development but only know greed destroy the environment (mining is an example) or rivers and lifestyles of lakhs of poor people for their own selfish ends. If that is what the 20 th century has taught us as a modern concept, then we havent learnt anything from the 20 th century. Mario responds: What the 20th century taught us is that socialism is the political ideology that wastes resources and impoverishes people and pollutes rivers and lifestyles for lakhs of poor people. This is why all its major proponents like Russia, China and India have rejected it since. Samir wrote: What we will do with more cars or more water, God alone knows. Mario responds: The last time I checked, good clean water is a scarce commodity in much of India. Regarding cars, people will buy them and get around more easily, just like they do in the greedy developed countries. Apparently
Re: [Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
From: Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.com --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Marshall Mendonza mmendonz...@gmail.com wrote: Persons like Fr Cedric Prakash or Medha Patkar are a rarity.They prefer to light a candle to banish the darkness rather than play politics or preach or just criticise. This is a very disingenuous assertion. Fr. Cedric Prakash is a Catholic priest. He is supposed to preach his religion to the masses. He is a regular contributor to religious news services such as South Asia Religious News, in which he criticizes the government, as well. ***Fr.Cedric Prakash, whom I know personally through my contacts in the Conference of the Catholic Bishops of India (CCBI), is a Jesuit priest defending the human rights of the people, particularly of the oppressed people. He is doing this work as a priest, not as a political activist. Fr.Cedric is the Director of PRASHANT, the Jesuit Centre for Human Rights, Justice and peace, Ahmedabad. There is nothing wrong in his work, on the contrary it is part and parcel of his priestly ministry. His social and political ministry is authorized by the Bishops of India. From his writings and from the post of Rajiv Desai it is clear that he is also politically active, in opposition to the Congress and Bharatiya Janata parties. Moreover, Mr. Desai claimed the following from his own personal experience regarding Fr. Prakash's political associations: I arranged as meeting for the Congress campaign team with him and his band of activists, mostly left-wing ideologues and jholewalas from outside Gujarat. (Rajiv Desai). Mr. Desai might want to clarify to which left-wing party these ideologues belonged. ***He is free to favour any political party that is working for the poor masses, provided that he pays attention to the ideology behind it. He can (and has to) reject any political party that is militating against the minorities and against the fundamental human rights. There is nothing wrong in being a political activist... ***He is doing the work as a Catholic priest--he is a Jesuit, hence he is authorized by his Bishops and Superiors--in the social and political fields. These fields are not forbidden to the Christians nor to the Catholic priests. It is religion in life, it is evangelization of daily life, in spite of our weaknesses. What I see as problems in a secular democracy, however, are: 1) The mixing of religion with activism and politics, and 2) Playing and taking advantage of religious identity politics The latter is as bad as vote banks... ***It is wrong to say that Religion has nothing to do with activism and politics. This is not working blindly for the vote banks. Christian religion is a way of life, the Kingdom of Gospel values, where there should reign justice and love. All dogmas, sacraments and teaching should lead to a balanced life of justice and love, in spite of our human errors and sins. Catholic Church has to influence even economics and politics. Politics is our daily life, it is how life is being governed. I have a say in politics by my voting rights as well as by influencing the people. With the permission of the Bishop, priests can enter even partisan politics. It is recommended to the Catholic priests not to intervene directly into partisan politics because a priest is a man of communion, and therefore should not divide the people, if all the parties follow the principles of justice. In case some party is violating human rights, then the priests can even preach from the pulpit not to vote for such a party. This is not partisan politics. Mahatma Gandhi had understood well that religion should influence politics. We Catholics vote not only for the Catholics but for a candidate of any religion or without religion, if s/he is a man/woman of character, principles, justice, peace, love, respecting the fundamental human rights. It is totally wrong to say that this is mixing religion with politics (Dr.Santosh does not know either what is religion or what is politics, or both). This is Religion, as St.James wrote: Now what use is it, my brothers, for a man to say he 'has faith' if his actions do not correspond with it? Could that sort of faith save anyone's soul? If a fellow man or woman has no clothes to wear and nothing to eat, and one of you say 'Good luck to you I hope you'll keep warm and find enough to eat', and yet give them nothing to meet their physical needs, what on earth is the good of that? Yet that is exactly what a bare faith without a corresponding life is like - useless and dead. If we only 'have faith' a man could easily challenge us by saying, 'you say that you have faith and I have merely good actions. Well, all you can do is to show me a faith without corresponding actions, but I can show you by my actions that I have faith as well.' (cf.Jas 2:14-18a). In short, religion is to help the orphan, the widow, the stranger, as the book of Deuteronomy was already saying.
Re: [Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
--- On Mon, 7/20/09, isouza icso...@sancharnet.in wrote: His social and political ministry is authorized by the Bishops of India. Sorry to note that mixing of religion with politics has official authorization. I hope those who want to promote secularism in India would speak out against it. Cheers, Santosh
[Goanet] Fr. Cedric Prakash
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Sangath, www.sangath.com, is one of Goa's leading NGOs. Sangath is looking to build a centre for services, training and research and is looking to buy land of approx 1500 to 2000 sq mtrs betweeen Mapusa and Bambolim and surrounding rural areas If you have land to sell, please contact: contac...@sangath.com or yvo...@sangath.com or phone +91-9881499458 http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180028.html Rajiv writes: i have observed with keen interest the back and forth on the activities of cedric prakash. nothing i have read so far convinces me that he stands for a positive cause. all his platitudes about human rights and social justice are planks in a long discredited platform, especially in the age of genuine liberalism (which prakash and his leftist and jholewala supporters call 'neo-liberalism'). as leaders of the world's two largest democracies, sonia gandhi and barack obama have revived the liberal cause that prakash and his ilk had expropriated. like medha patkar's, his is an oppositional mentality: he opposes modi and the bjp (and so do we all), he opposes the congress; he opposed the indo-us nuclear deal; he opposes all forms of development. his ideology seems to a confused mix between the left that stands for very little but knee jerk diatribes against capitalism (especially the usa) and the hind swaraj mindset that excoriates modernity (seen as something that is not indian). as such cedric prakash has no appreciation for the two most transformative forces of the 20th century: capitalism and modernization. he can get the 'alternate nobel' for what it's worth. but he remains today a destructive force in gujarat and indeed in the rest of india; especially among us liberals. People who have no clue on creative, environmentally sustainable development but only know greed destroy the environment (mining is an example) or rivers and lifestyles of lakhs of poor people for their own selfish ends. If that is what the 20 th century has taught us as a modern concept, then we havent learnt anything from the 20 th century. In India, these concepts of so called development are combined with corruption, lack of rehabilitation when tribals are displaced. Why, because we need more cars, or more water for our consumption. What we will do with more cars or more water, God alone knows. These are the real destructive forces of today because their greed for earth's resources are infinite. The West having screwed up the earth is now waking up to the issue and happily uses the Third World's resources now to satisfy its infinite greed --- consider garbage disposal of the West to Africa. In fact, some of the trash from 9/11 has landed up in Chennai, I am told. Wealth is not created by destroying the earth; in fact, we will get further impoverished. A few people have had the conviction to stand up to this. Medha Patkar is one of them. Such people who talk sense are then dismissed as anti-development. However, those who invest in producing more cars thus gobbling up all the steel, or mining companies such as Vedanta which destroy eco-sensitive areas such as the Sahyadris are touted as pro-development. What a travesty of the concept of development! regards, Samir
[Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
Further to my post on Fr Cedric Prakash, I may add that he is revered and respected among the victims of the Gujarat carnage, the downtrodden and marginalised. He is also recognised, appreciated and honoured by the larger civil society cutting across religious lines and national and international boundries besides the government and Minority Commision. He was awarded the Chevalier de la Legion d' Honneur (Knight of the Legion of Honour), one of the highest French civilian awards, acknowledging his commitment to the defence and the promotion of Human Rights in India. Other than this, Fr. Prakash has also been awarded numerous other awards - the Rafi Ahmed Kidwai Award presented for Humanitarian Work by the Indian Muslim Council, USA in 2003, the Kabir Puraskar conferred on him by the President of India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_India for his work in the promotion of Communal Harmony and Peace in 1995, and the Minorities Rights Award by the National Commission for Minorities of the Government of India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_India in 2006. Similarly, the work of Medha Patkar has been recognised and appreciated where it matters most – among the displaced, the marginalised and the poor. Medha Patkar is one of the recipients of Right Livelihood Awardhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Livelihood_Awardfor the year 1991. She received the 1999 M.A.Thomas National Human Rights Award from Vigil India Movementhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigil_India_Movement. She has also received numerous other awards, including the Deena Nath Mangeshkar Awardhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Deena_Nath_Mangeshkar_Awardaction=editredlink=1, Mahatma Phule Awardhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mahatma_Phule_Awardaction=editredlink=1, Goldman Environment Prizehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_Environment_Prize, Green Ribbon Awardhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Green_Ribbon_Awardaction=editredlink=1for Best International Political Campaigner by BBC http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC, and the Human Rights Defender's Awardhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Human_Rights_Defender%27s_Awardaction=editredlink=1from Amnesty International http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesty_International. She was also a Commissioner to the World Commission on Damshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Commission_on_Dams . There are many others like Harsh Mander, former IAS officer, RB Sreekumar, former IPS officer, Mihir Desai, Mallika Sarabhai and Teesta Setalvad who have stood up for truth and justice at great personal cost. I salute such persons and I am proud to be counted among their well wishers. Regards, Marshall
[Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
I refer to Rajiv Desai's post on Fr Cedric Prakash. Persons like Fr Cedric Prakash or Medha Patkar are a rarity. They do not have any political affiliations or harbour any political ambitions or seek to build vote banks. They are selfless and committed individuals who are trying to make a difference to society. They prefer to light a candle to banish the darkness rather than play politics or preach or just criticise. Standing up for the downtrodden or the marginalised or victimised is no joke. The odds are strongly against you. Most people prefer to sail with the tide. And in a highly polarised society like Gujarat, even the victims of violence prefer maintaining a stoic silence to avoid further misfortunes. Hence, I am not surprised to learn that even christians in Gujarat are not great supporters of Fr Cedric. This is the way of the world. People generally like to sway in the direction of the wind. Even Jesus Christ was deserted by his disciples in his hour of need. His closest disciple even denied knowing Him in order to save his own skin. Medha Patkar is an alumni of TISS and I understand a Gold Medalist. She could have easily opted for a cushy corporate job and could have been earning a fat 6 figure salary today. However, she has opted to give to society and has been fighting a lonely battle for the Narmada oustees. If today, the plight of the Narmada oustees has been recognised and accepted and they have been given some compensation and/or land it is largely due to the fight put up by Medha Patkar on their behalf. People like Fr Cedric Prakash and Medha Patkar should be beacons for all of us if we are really keen in having a just and fair society. It is a fact of life that there can be peace only if there is justice. Where there is no justice, there will never be peace. Regarding the Congress Party, I am sorry to say that the Congress Party of today is not the same as the Congress of Gandhiji and Nehru. Gandhiji and Nehru led from the front. During the partition riots as well as during the riots in Noakali, Gandhiji went on a fast unto death which brought the riots and killings to an immediate halt. Is there any leader today in the country who can command such respect or such moral force? The Congress Party has been running with the hares while hunting with the hounds. The locks of the Babri Masjid were opened on the orders of the Congress. The Congress opened its election campaign in 1984 by performing shilanyas at the site of the Babri Masjid. The make shift Ram temple was built after the Kalyan Singh ministry was dismissed and UP was under President's rule. It is a matter of shame that the killers of innocent sikhs in 1984 have not yet been brought to justice even after 25 years. No action has been taken on the Shrikrishna Commission Report even after 17 years. Anti - Conversion bills were passed by the Congress in MP, Orissa, Arunachal Pradesh and HP. Under the circumstances, I am not surprised to hear that Fr Cedric Prakash's view that people were voting for the Congress only because of a lack of a better alternative. This is true for many people. Rajiv Desai has not elaborated on the role and contribution of the Congress during and after the 2002 genocide of muslims. I wish he had done so as it would have given us a better perspective why Fr Cedric Prakash was sceptical about the Congress campaign and was reluctant to associate himself with it. If Fr Cedric Prakash was considered an outsider, Mallika Sarabhai a distinguished daughter of Gujarat is treated no better. FN, I believe Fr Cedric Prakash hails from Mangalore. Regards, Marshall
Re: [Goanet] Fr Cedric Prakash
--- On Sun, 7/19/09, Marshall Mendonza mmendonz...@gmail.com wrote: Persons like Fr Cedric Prakash or Medha Patkar are a rarity.They prefer to light a candle to banish the darkness rather than play politics or preach or just criticise. This is a very disingenuous assertion. Fr. Cedric Prakash is a Catholic priest. He is supposed to preach his religion to the masses. He is a regular contributor to religious news services such as South Asia Religious News, in which he criticizes the government, as well. Please see: http://www.sarnews.in/details.php?n=1110 From his writings and from the post of Rajiv Desai it is clear that he is also politically active, in opposition to the Congress and Bharatiya Janata parties. Moreover, Mr. Desai claimed the following from his own personal experience regarding Fr. Prakash's political associations: I arranged as meeting for the Congress campaign team with him and his band of activists, mostly left-wing ideologues and jholewalas from outside Gujarat. Rajiv Desai Please see http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-July/180139.html Mr. Desai might want to clarify to which left-wing party these ideologues belonged. There is nothing wrong in being a political activist. What I see as problems in a secular democracy, however, are: 1) The mixing of religion with activism and politics, and 2) Playing and taking advantage of religious identity politics The latter is as bad as vote banks. The following assertion is especially instructive in this regard: Hence, I am not surprised to learn that even christians in Gujarat are not great supporters of Fr Cedric. Marshall Mendonza Please note the implicit assumption above that Christians, by definition, are supposed to be great supporters of Fr. Cedric. I say the fact that they are not, speaks to their greatness. It gives me hope that Indian Christians and non-Christians have finally learned to value independent thinking, and reject the impulses of conditioned communal groupism. Cheers, Santosh
