[Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church
Remembering Aquino Braganca (b. 6 April 1924), who fought for freedom of the former Portuguese colonies in Africa. An online tribute http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/ (includes many historical references, some photographs and documents) Mario Goveia, please, ''To the best of my knowledge ''were actually my words to avoid any future apology for a wrong statement. Casteism and racism are both forms of social discrimination , one based on accident of birth and the other on the colour of skin ; in fact both are sides of the same coin. ''Modern reincarnation of the proposition that everyone is created equal ''. Political gossip has it the when the day of the independence was getting closer, the apostle of peace had a choice to make for the Prime Ministerial job : Jawaharlal Nehru or a farmer called Sardar Patel.The apostle I believe, chose the former. Antonio
Re: [Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church
Remembering Aquino Braganca (b. 6 April 1924), who fought for freedom of the former Portuguese colonies in Africa. An online tribute http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/ (includes many historical references, some photographs and documents) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 22:36:29 -0400 From: Venantius Pinto venantius.pi...@gmail.com Please provide text by Gandhi refuting what two Christians have said--Antonio Menezes and me. Do please provide. I would appreciate knowing what Gandhi said. I am willing to be proved wrong and regard my What knowledge? as faulty. Mario responds: Here is what Antonio Menezes derisively wrote, To the best of my knowledge he did not utter a single word agains the perpetrators of the worst kind of social discrimination. I suppose for a bania to criticize brahmins would be agains his dharmic duty. There you are sub-continental hypocrisy for you. Here is what you said, Excuse the segway on my part, considering that Porbunder man has made an entry--, and, I agree with Antonio Menezes' point, To the best of my knowledge he did not utter a single word against the perpetrators of the worst kind of social discrimination. Perhaps as a lawyer he may have sold it to his colleagues as some essential strategy. To begin with, Antonio, to his credit, did address the subject of racism in the Catholic church before he wandered off into the Hindu community, for no apparent reason. I chose not to excuse the segway by yourself because it continued Antonio's attempt to switch the discussion to Hindus, which deflected attention from the important discussion in this thread. Secondly, perhaps words speak louder than actions for Antonio and yourself, but, for me, actions speak louder than words. Thus, this is what impressed me more than anything Gandhi may have said, In September 1932, while in jail, Gandhi undertook a “fast unto death” to improve the status of the Hindu Untouchables. This is simply a fact. Though Frederick, too, has published quotes that sound like Gandhi had no problem with the caste system, Gandhi was clearly opposed to the unjust social and economic aspects of the caste system, the brunt of which fell on the Harijans. Venantius wrote: Its is also very interesting to hear you say, Once again, I see some Christians trying to deflect attention from racism in the Catholic Church, the subject of this thread, to some other person's alleged transgressions - as if two wrongs make a right, even if true. It is stupefying to be accused of deflecting attention from racism in the Catholic Church. Mario responds: Perhaps you would be less stupefied if you understood that this thread was about racism in the Catholic church, not racism in the Hindu religion or revisionist spin about Gandhi's approach to the caste system. Unlike Antonio, you did not say a word about the topic of the thread. Venantius wrote: Are you for real that you accused me? Have you read what I have written in the past. Mario responds: Though my memory is prodigious, I don't commit to memory every word written on Goanet. Thus, I was responding to what had been written in this thread alone, not what you have written in the past. All I accused you of was changing an important discussion into another issue with no relevence to the primary issue. Thus, I correctly described what you called a segway as a deflection. If you had initiated a thread with the subject, Mahatma Gandhi was a casteist scoundrel I would not have been able to make the accusation of deflection. Venantius wrote: And I have the ability to talk directly with the Church and do. But all this is only to help you see things and where people like me stand on certain issues -- since this is a very base accusation. Mario responds: Again, I was responding specifically to what was written in this thread, which, I am forced to remind you again, was about racism in the Catholic Church, not your segway into Hinduism or revisionist spin about the man from Porbandar. BTW, getting back to the subject, what do you have to say about racism in the Catholic church?
Re: [Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church
Remembering Aquino Braganca (b. 6 April 1924), who fought for freedom of the former Portuguese colonies in Africa. An online tribute http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/ (includes many historical references, some photographs and documents) Mario wrote: http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761575565/gandhi.html Excerpt: In September 1932, while in jail, Gandhi undertook a fast unto death to improve the status of the Hindu Untouchables. Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 03:12:56 +0530 From: Frederick [FN] Noronha * (i) Just because the West canonises a 20th century political leader (for whatever reason, including their own biases and political preferences of those who control public opinion on a global scale) doesn't make him lily white and above criticism. Mario responds: Frederick, Are you, too, now trying to revise history by insinuating that Gandhiji did nothing to confront the abomination of the caste system? Frederick wrote: His simplicity we and the rest of the planet can learn a lot from, never mind your capitalist dogma of more-consumption-is-virtue, and Sarojini Naidu's dig that it costs India a lot to keep Gandhi poor! Mario responds: It is simply empirical fact that capitalism has created more wealth and freedom for more people for a longer period that any other system devised so far, whereas your socialist dogma has done the opposite because of which it is now virtually obsolete, rejected by all its previousl proponents other than the oppressive economic basket cases like Cuba, N. Korea, Zimbabwe and Venezuela. While it is currently being revived in the home of capitalism, this is likely to be short lived because of the results it will not produce. Frederisk wrote: The excesses of Indian middle-class (and elite) overconsumpion are making itself felt in tonnes of garbage, depletion of resources, and (your bugbear!) global warming and what not. Mario responds: I guess, in your mind, you get to decide what overconsumption means? I recall the socialist uptopia of post independence India I escaped from had tonnes of garbage, misallocation of resources, massive corruption, wholesale tax cheating, etc. not to mention massive economic malaise and far more poverty than today. BTW, we saw is a recent debate right here on Goanet that the causes of global warming espoused by the mainstream scientific organizations are being subjected to spirited opposition by a number of other scientists. Frederick wrote: While Gandhi was staunchly against untouchability as such, he didn't have a problem (in fact, he supported) the caste system as a whole. Check out these interesting links, since you talk about Google: Mario responds: How can anyone seriously argue that a person who went on hunger strikes on behalf of the lowest Hindu caste had any sympathy for any of the negative and discriminatory and debilitating aspects of the caste system? Gandhi was brought up in Hinduism, in which caste is ingrained. His thinking evolved as he grew and matured, so his conflict on the subject and his approach must be looked at from this perspective. Ambedkar was brought up as a Harijan - the term coined by Gandhi I believe, so his perspective was different. Frederick wrote: I would agree with you that we Goan Catholics tend to be defensive about discussing/acknowledging caste and its negative impact on society. But even if you're right on this, it doesn't justify your other arguments, which seem to be based on your gut-level feeling rather than facts. I'm sure you'll feel I'm wrong, so let me know why (not that I'll debate continually). Mario responds: Even if I'm right ?? :-)) My other arguments in this thread were, a) Casteism is just as bad as racism,..., and b) Once again, I see some Christians trying to deflect attention from racism in the Catholic Church, the subject of this thread, to some other person's alleged transgressions - as if two wrongs make a right, even if true. Which of these did you think was not right ?? BTW, the Goan Christians who follow the pretense of being upper caste are understandably defensive when confronted by someone like me because a) such a system does not exist within their religion, and b) for far too long they have been allowed to get away with taking advantage of its negative aspects.
Re: [Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church
Remembering Aquino Braganca (b. 6 April 1924), who fought for freedom of the former Portuguese colonies in Africa. An online tribute http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/ (includes many historical references, some photographs and documents) Wow. Thanks for helping me see differently. Your memory aside, follow what I say on Goanet. I do not write as much as you do, but I have said enough on the subject of racism (and its nauances) in the Catholic church? venantius From: Mario Goveia mgov...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church Venantius wrote: And I have the ability to talk directly with the Church and do. But all this is only to help you see things and where people like me stand on certain issues -- since this is a very base accusation. Mario responds: Again, I was responding specifically to what was written in this thread, which, I am forced to remind you again, was about racism in the Catholic Church, not your segway into Hinduism or revisionist spin about the man from Porbandar. BTW, getting back to the subject, what do you have to say about racism in the Catholic church?
[Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church
Remembering Aquino Braganca (b. 6 April 1924), who fought for freedom of the former Portuguese colonies in Africa. An online tribute http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/ (includes many historical references, some photographs and documents) Antonio Menezes wrote: There was this lawyer from Porbandar who saw nothing wrong in his own backyard...snip...He simply renamed these suffering people as children of God. To the best of my knowledge he did not utter a single word agains the perpetrators of the worst kind of social discrimination. I suppose for a bania to criticize brahmins would be agains his dharmic duty. There you are sub-continental hypocrisy for you Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 18:04:53 -0400 From: Venantius Pinto venantius.pi...@gmail.com I agree with Antonio Menezes' point, To the best of my knowledge he did not utter a single word against the perpetrators of the worst kind of social discrimination. Perhaps as a lawyer he may have sold it to his colleagues as some essential strategy. Mario asks: To the best of my knowledge...? What knowledge? Has Google and other search engines been shut down? Once again, I see some Christians trying to deflect attention from racism in the Catholic Church, the subject of this thread, to some other person's alleged transgressions - as if two wrongs make a right, even if true. BTW, the man from Porbander, regardless of how he came upon his epiphany, has been recognized around the world as a modern reincarnation of the proposition that Everyone is created equal. for which he was eventually assassinated. These insinuations against Mohandas Gandhi are despicable, not to mention false. See also: http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761575565/gandhi.html Excerpt: In September 1932, while in jail, Gandhi undertook a “fast unto death” to improve the status of the Hindu Untouchables. The British, by permitting the Untouchables to be considered as a separate part of the Indian electorate, were, according to Gandhi, countenancing an injustice. Although he was himself a member of the Vaisya (merchant) caste, Gandhi was the great leader of the movement in India dedicated to eradicating the unjust social and economic aspects of the caste system. [end of excerpts]
Re: [Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church
Remembering Aquino Braganca (b. 6 April 1924), who fought for freedom of the former Portuguese colonies in Africa. An online tribute http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/ (includes many historical references, some photographs and documents) 2009/4/5 Mario Goveia mgov...@sbcglobal.net: To the best of my knowledge...? What knowledge? Has Google and other search engines been shut down? Once again, I see some Christians trying to deflect attention from racism in the Catholic Church, the subject of this thread, to some other person's alleged transgressions - as if two wrongs make a right, even if true. BTW, the man from Porbander, regardless of how he came upon his epiphany, has been recognized around the world as a modern reincarnation of the proposition that Everyone is created equal. for which he was eventually assassinated. These insinuations against Mohandas Gandhi are despicable, not to mention false. See also: http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761575565/gandhi.html Excerpt: In September 1932, while in jail, Gandhi undertook a “fast unto death” to improve the status of the Hindu Untouchables. Hi Mario, You raise some interesting points. (i) Just because the West canonises a 20th century political leader (for whatever reason, including their own biases and political preferences of those who control public opinion on a global scale) doesn't make him lily white and above criticism. (ii) Firstly, let me express my admiration of Gandhi on some aspects -- for instance, inspite of being a highly religious man (or because of it), he was very respectful towards the beliefs of others. He was assassinated largely due to his very un-hawkish views towards Muslims. I don't think it was because of caste. His simplicity we and the rest of the planet can learn a lot from, never mind your capitalist dogma of more-consumption-is-virtue, and Sarojini Naidu's dig that it costs India a lot to keep Gandhi poor! The excesses of Indian middle-class (and elite) overconsumpion are making itself felt in tonnes of garbage, depletion of resources, and (your bugbear!) global warming and what not. (iii) While Gandhi was staunchly against untouchability as such, he didn't have a problem (in fact, he supported) the caste system as a whole. Check out these interesting links, since you talk about Google: Mohandas and Ambedkar http://www.gandhiserve.org/message_board/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=88t=396 Gandhi on caste - a selection http://www.mail-archive.com/zestalternat...@yahoogroups.com/msg00151.html Mahatma Gandhi divided India on caste lines: Mayawati http://72.14.235.132/search?q=cache:fr1MynlP5uEJ:www.monstersandcritics.com/news/india/news/article_1369156.php/Mahatma_Gandhi_divided_India_on_caste_lines_Mayawati+gandhi+caste+mayawati+ianscd=1hl=enct=clnk While Mayawati could be dismissed as being a ranting politician in electoral mode, she's not saying things without a reason, as the above two statements would suggest. (iv) I would agree with you that we Goan Catholics tend to be defensive about discussing/acknowledging caste and its negative impact on society. But even if you're right on this, it doesn't justify your other arguments, which seem to be based on your gut-level feeling rather than facts. I'm sure you'll feel I'm wrong, so let me know why (not that I'll debate continually). FN -- FN * http://fredericknoronha.wordpress.com M +91-9822122436 P +91-832-2409490 http://twitter.com/fn On Facebook: http://www.new.facebook.com/people/Frederick-Noronha/502514643 I am at two with nature. - Woody Alan
Re: [Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church
Remembering Aquino Braganca (b. 6 April 1924), who fought for freedom of the former Portuguese colonies in Africa. An online tribute http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/ (includes many historical references, some photographs and documents) Please provide text by Gandhi refuting what two Christians have said--Antonio Menezes and me. Do please provide. I would appreciate knowing what Gandhi said. I am willing to be proved wrong and regard my What knowledge? as faulty. Its is also very interesting to hear you say, Once again, I see some Christians trying to deflect attention from racism in the Catholic Church, the subject of this thread, to some other person's alleged transgressions - as if two wrongs make a right, even if true. It is stupefying to be accused of deflecting attention from racism in the Catholic Church. Are you for real that you accused me? Have you read what I have written in the past. Get a grip. And I have the ability to talk directly with the Church and do. But all this is only to help you see things and where people like me stand on certain issues--since this is a very base accusation. Help us here. Just provide what Gandhi said. His words. Not some excerpt not written by Gandhi himself. venantius From: Mario Goveia mgov...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church . Mario asks: To the best of my knowledge...? What knowledge? Has Google and other search engines been shut down? Once again, I see some Christians trying to deflect attention from racism in the Catholic Church, the subject of this thread, to some other person's alleged transgressions - as if two wrongs make a right, even if true. BTW, the man from Porbander, regardless of how he came upon his epiphany, has been recognized around the world as a modern reincarnation of the proposition that Everyone is created equal. for which he was eventually assassinated. These insinuations against Mohandas Gandhi are despicable, not to mention false. See also: http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761575565/gandhi.html Excerpt: In September 1932, while in jail, Gandhi undertook a ?fast unto death? to improve the status of the Hindu Untouchables. The British, by permitting the Untouchables to be considered as a separate part of the Indian electorate, were, according to Gandhi, countenancing an injustice. Although he was himself a member of the Vaisya (merchant) caste, Gandhi was the great leader of the movement in India dedicated to eradicating the unjust social and economic aspects of the caste system. [end of excerpts]
Re: [Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church
Remembering Aquino Braganca (b. 6 April 1924), who fought for freedom of the former Portuguese colonies in Africa. An online tribute http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/ (includes many historical references, some photographs and documents) On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:24 PM, Mervyn Lobo mervynal...@yahoo.ca wrote: Rolland, Swing on by to my parish this Sunday and hear a good sermon. Roland Francis replied: Mervyn, You'd have to teach me Tamil first. Roland, 1) I dont speak Tamil. 2) I have no problems paying for your Tamil classes. Secondly, let me reiterate my invitation for you to attend mass in my part of Toronto this Sunday. Our parish priest will: 1) Provide the palms 2) Speak very clearly 3) And as a favour, I can also ask him to S P E A K S L O W L Y . Mervyn1650Lobo __ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
[Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church
Remembering Aquino Braganca (b. 6 April 1924), who fought for freedom of the former Portuguese colonies in Africa. An online tribute http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/ (includes many historical references, some photographs and documents) Roland Francis mentions one Fr. Diogo in the course of his attack on racism displayed by white ecclesiastics against coloured ones. Roland , of course , is right to point the state of affairs in the Catholic church. We do not know whether Fr. Diogo belongs to the bamon caste. If so, I do not think his hands are that clean to point fingers at white priests. If he is not a bamon, then Fr. Diogo should consult elderly non-bamon priests in Goa and find out for himself the casteist mentality of bamon priests during the colonial era. i.e. pre=1961. In this connection MarioGoveia was quite right when he pointed out the evils of casteism that dominated the Catholic church in Goa during 450 years of :Portuguese rule. The evil of casteism is at its worst in the Hindu community. There was this lawyer from Porbandar who saw nothing wrong in his own backyard so he sailed across the Indian Ocean to Durban in South Africa to fight for the rights of Indian labourers which were consistently denied tothem by the white plantation masters. He scored some victories and then returnedto India,opened his eyes and saw centuries old discrimination of fellow huma n beings and did something which the rest of the world was amazed at. He simply renamed these suffering people as children of God. To the best of my knowledge he did not utter a single word agains the perpetrators of the worst kind of social discrimination. I suppose for a bania to criticize brahmins would be agains his dharmic duty. There you are sub-continental hypocrisy for you, Antonio
[Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church
Remembering Aquino Braganca (b. 6 April 1924), who fought for freedom of the former Portuguese colonies in Africa. An online tribute http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/ (includes many historical references, some photographs and documents) Excuse the segway on my part, considering that Porbunder man has made an entry-- Our man from Porbunder was in Durban in 1893 to serve as legal counsel to a mechant, Dada Abdulla. Apparently, it was when Porbunder lawyer man got unceremoniously shoved out of the train, and his luggage followed him, having been thrown on the platform--that he encountered grave reality. It was then that the light shone upon him of his own illusory thinking. In seeing his plight quite clearly, he saw that, that of the coolies was even more so. He began seeing racism against colored people for what it was and that it was also arrayed against him, at which point in the bitter cold--the seeds for the fight began. The beginning was his person being negated. It was at Pietermaritzburg en route to Pretoria. http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/History/Gandhi/Pieter.html I agree with Antonio Menezes' point, To the best of my knowledge he did not utter a single word against the perpetrators of the worst kind of social discrimination. Perhaps as a lawyer he may have sold it to his colleagues as some essential strategy. venantius j pinto From: Antonio Menezes ac.mene...@gmail.com Subject: [Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church (DEL) There was this lawyer from Porbandar who saw nothing wrong in his own backyard so he sailed across the Indian Ocean to Durban in South Africa to fight for the rights of Indian labourers which were consistently denied tothem by the white plantation masters. He scored some victories and then returnedto India,opened his eyes and saw centuries old discrimination of fellow huma n beings and did something which the rest of the world was amazed at. He simply renamed these suffering people as children of God. To the best of my knowledge he did not utter a single word agains the perpetrators of the worst kind of social discrimination. I suppose for a bania to criticize brahmins would be agains his dharmic duty. There you are sub-continental hypocrisy for you, Antonio
Re: [Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church
Remembering Aquino Braganca (b. 6 April 1924), who fought for freedom of the former Portuguese colonies in Africa. An online tribute http://aquinobraganca.wordpress.com/ (includes many historical references, some photographs and documents) Roland Francis wrote: For example Toronto is almost racism free. Yet I am always left wondering why the more wealthy parishes who have a mostly white congregation always have white pastors and assistants. These clerics are well spoken, give good sermons and are excellent communicators. These parishes rarely have a non-white pastor. Rolland, Swing on by to my parish this Sunday and hear a good sermon. And don't you worry, I will take this Sunday off as I have no intention of risking going down to your parish to hear a lousy sermon. My question to myself is: 1) Why does the Diocese of Toronto generally not have non-white dynamic priests of a high standard? Yes they exist, I have seen lots of them in India. My question to myself. What in the world is this statement doing on a public forum? I am tempted to answer it but, to follow your logic, I would have to start with, My answer to myself is .. Mervyn1650Lobo And here is another Toronto Catholic joke. A Presbyterian Church, a Baptist Church, an Anglican Church and a Catholic Church in Toronto were each overrun with pesky squirrels. One day, the Presbyterian Church called a meeting to decide what to do about the squirrels. After much prayer and consideration they determined that the squirrels were predestined to be there and they shouldn't interfere with God's divine will. In the Baptist Church the squirrels had taken up habitation by the baptismal pool. The elders met and decided to put a cover on it and drown the squirrels. The squirrels escaped somehow and there were twice as many there the next week. The Anglican group got together and decided that they were not in a position to harm any of God's creations. So, they humanely trapped the squirrels and set them free a few miles outside of town. Three days later, the squirrels were back. But -- the Catholic church came up with the best and most effective solution. They baptized the squirrels. Now they only see them on Christmas and Easter . __ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com.
[Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church
I myself believe that racism exists in the Catholic Church. I may be wrong about this as I have mentally made a set of assumptions that could be proved wrong. For example Toronto is almost racism free. Yet I am always left wondering why the more wealthy parishes who have a mostly white congregation always have white pastors and assistants. These clerics are well spoken, give good sermons and are excellent communicators. These parishes rarely have a non-white pastor. Then there are the rest of the parishes who have mostly non-white parishioners. These churches invariably have Indian, Sri Lankan, Filipino and other white priests whose primary language is not English. My question to myself is: 1) Why does the Diocese of Toronto generally not have non-white dynamic priests of a high standard? Yes they exist, I have seen lots of them in India. 2) Why does the Diocese not have white priests of a high caliber pastoring non-white majority congregations. 3) Why do some young Goan and non-white priests born in Canada seem subdued rather than dynamic. Are they being suppressed in their pastoral freedom by their pastors and other clerical hierarchy. I would like some feedback from other Canadian Goanetters to say I am wrong. I would be happy if it is confirmed that all the above is a figment of my imagination. Lastly, Father Diogo, I would like you to describe some actual experiences of racism you have experienced since you have in a way started this thread. Regards, Roland Francis http://roland-torontogoan.blogspot.com +1 (416) 453.3371 On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:26 PM, fatherd...@aol.com wrote: Thank you for your article Whose Blood is This? Mourning the Death of Gregory Fernandes. Is it possible to have the e-mail address of Mr R Benedito Ferrao? I would like to personally thank him and together with him extend my concern of racism as I see - even with the ruthless catholic bishops against powerless priests of brown/dark skin. With grateful regards, Father Diogo Fernandes, the uncle of Gregory Fernandes
[Goanet] Racism in the Catholic Church
On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 11:26 PM, fatherd...@aol.com wrote: I would like to personally thank him and together with him extend my concern of racism as I see - even with the ruthless catholic bishops against powerless priests of brown/dark skin. Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 08:26:34 -0400 From: Roland Francis roland.fran...@gmail.com I myself believe that racism exists in the Catholic Church. I may be wrong about this as I have mentally made a set of assumptions that could be proved wrong. For example Toronto is almost racism free. Yet I am always left wondering why the more wealthy parishes who have a mostly white congregation always have white pastors and assistants. These clerics are well spoken, give good sermons and are excellent communicators. These parishes rarely have a non-white pastor. Then there are the rest of the parishes who have mostly non-white parishioners. These churches invariably have Indian, Sri Lankan, Filipino and other white priests whose primary language is not English. I would like some feedback from other Canadian Goanetters to say I am wrong. I would be happy if it is confirmed that all the above is a figment of my imagination. Mario wonders: Hey, Roland, Casteism is just as bad as racism, and we all know it exists among Goan Catholics and the Goan Catholic Church, so racism may exist as well since the Catholic culture has tacitly accepted the principle of discrimination based on the accident of birth. Secondly, how do you unequivocally say that Toronto is free of racism, and in the very next sentence start describing what you believe to be racism in Toronto? Finally, why are you laboring under unsubstantiated assumptions? Since you live in Toronto, why don't you just call the Bishop's office and ask him? Let him have it. Isn't he your shepherd? That's what he's paid the big bucks for. I'm told my local Bishop cringes when told I'm on the line:-)) Roland wrote: Lastly, Father Diogo, I would like you to describe some actual experiences of racism you have experienced since you have in a way started this thread. Mario adds: Yeah! Let's hear some specific examples from an Indian priest who comes from a land that invented discrimination, and where many Catholics, including Catholic priests, believe in institutionalized discrimination in the form of casteism. I'd also like to know what Fr. Diogo thinks about casteism among Goan Catholics, over 400 years after most of our ancestors became Catholics.
