Re: [Goanet] DEBATE: Taking caste seriously: being

2009-03-27 Thread Venantius Pinto
Excuse my mispelling your spelling of Farokhi.
venantius

On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Venantius Pinto
venantius.pi...@gmail.comwrote:

 Why do you use two spellings in two cases? Are these errors?
 Zafar and Jaffar
 Farooqui (quite unusual) and Forokhi.

 At least you are using the standard spelling  for Hafiz, although it is
 spelt in different ways. Btw that a nice gesture—Allah Hafiz. May you too be
 protected.

 While your point is laudable, Jason is using pretty straight English.
 People can make that effort. Certain things may only be said in certain
 ways. People who do not understand fitna could ask their Muslim friends.

 venantius j pinto

  From: zafar ali farooqui fz...@hotmail.com
 Subject: Re: [Goanet] DEBATE: Taking caste seriously: being
anti-brahmin is not enough
 (del)
 I request you to avoid these words or provide meaning of the words in your
 future
 articles.

 Obfuscates ( obscure,confuse)   edifice ,  succinctly ,critique, plethora
 ,upheaval
 and fitna.

 Your articles are meant for common man ( who understand little English)
  ie
 Dalits,Sudra,Muslims, Christians,Brahmins,Hindus etc.

 Allah Hafiz,

 Jaffar Ali Bin Mohamad Yusuf Farokhi




Re: [Goanet] DEBATE: Taking caste seriously: being anti-brahmin is not enough

2009-03-27 Thread Mario Goveia
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:46:47 -0400
From: zafar ali farooqui fz...@hotmail.com

Dear Adv. Jason Keith Fernanades,

I read your article and found it interesting.

I request you to avoid these words or provide meaning of the words in your
future articles.

Mario observes:

Khuda hafiz, brother Zafar.  I hope you know you are the answer to Joao
Barros-Pereira's wishes, who recently rued the absence of a Muslim voice on
Goanet:

http://lists.goanet.org/pipermail/goanet-goanet.org/2009-March/175621.html

Excerpt:

Reading the posts, in particular on religion, I get the impression that
there are few Muslims as members of Goanet. How many Muslims have commented
in the last few months ...? [end of excerpt]

BTW, Zafar, why are you demanding a dumbing down of the language on this forum,
while encouraging intellectual laziness at the same time?

If someone on the internet doesn't understand English, all they have to do
is Google dictionary, and choose from either the English version or
the American version.

That way, everyone benefits. 

Regarding caste, as a Christian I do not even acknowledge it, at least as far
as non-Hindus are concerned, leave alone taking it seriously.

Re. Hindus, I support those who want to abolish this abomination whose only
purpose is to discriminate against others and create a false sense of
superiority or inferiority based on an accident of birth rather than the content
of one's character and one's personal behavior, attitude and
achievements.





Re: [Goanet] DEBATE: Taking caste seriously: being anti-brahmin is not enough

2009-03-26 Thread zafar ali farooqui
Dear Adv.Jason Keith Fernanades,

I read your article and found it interesting.

I request you to avoid these words or provide meaning of the words in your 
future 
articles.


Obfuscates ( obscure,confuse)   edifice ,  succinctly ,critique, plethora 
,upheaval 
and fitna.



Your articles are meant for common man ( who understand little English)  ie 
Dalits,Sudra,Muslims,Christians,Brahmins,Hindus etc.



Please remember the only draw back with Sanskrit language today is that... only 
the 
Brahmins learn and understand it and sometimes use it to control or show 
superiority 
over other castes.



All the best please keep the good work going.



Allah Hafiz,



Jaffar Ali Bin Mohamad Yusuf Farokhi






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Re: [Goanet] DEBATE: Taking caste seriously: being

2009-03-26 Thread Venantius Pinto
Why do you use two spellings in two cases? Are these errors?
Zafar and Jaffar
Farooqui (quite unusual) and Forokhi.

At least you are using the standard spelling  for Hafiz, although it is
spelt in different ways. Btw that a nice gesture—Allah Hafiz. May you too be
protected.

While your point is laudable, Jason is using pretty straight English. People
can make that effort. Certain things may only be said in certain ways.
People who do not understand fitna could ask their Muslim friends.

venantius j pinto

From: zafar ali farooqui fz...@hotmail.com
 Subject: Re: [Goanet] DEBATE: Taking caste seriously: being
anti-brahmin is not enough
 (del)
 I request you to avoid these words or provide meaning of the words in your
 future
 articles.

 Obfuscates ( obscure,confuse)   edifice ,  succinctly ,critique, plethora
 ,upheaval
 and fitna.

 Your articles are meant for common man ( who understand little English)  ie
 Dalits,Sudra,Muslims,Christians,Brahmins,Hindus etc.

 Allah Hafiz,

 Jaffar Ali Bin Mohamad Yusuf Farokhi



[Goanet] DEBATE: Taking caste seriously: being anti-brahmin is not enough

2009-03-25 Thread Goanet Reader
Taking caste seriously: being anti-brahmin is not enough

Jason Keith Fernandes
jason.k.fernan...@gmail.com

It is something of an article of faith in some circles to
place the ills for much that is happening in Goa at the feet
of the Saraswats. These circles indicate that the Saraswats
have always been a dominant force in Goan society and
especially so after Liberation. They control the mining
industry, through this they control educational institutions;
until very recently almost all of the newspapers in Goa, with
the development of technology they also control the local
audio-visual media.

Further it is pointed out, that from A-Z, all government
departments are headed by Saraswats who ensure that on
retirement, their position is taken over by another Saraswat.

It is through this presence in all key posts and institutions
these activists argue, that the Saraswat is able to control
the fate and politics of Goa, manipulating every situation to
come out the winner. What we should know, these circles
argue, is that there is no such thing as a Congress agenda or
a BJP agenda in this State; there is only a Saraswat agenda,
and they will sleep with whoever promises to deliver it.

         The above argument may be true; especially if the
         first half of these arguments can be established.
         Control over institutions and resources presents
         groups with not just economic capital, but social
         and cultural resources that allow for dominance in
         society.

One can be recognized as dominant not purely through physical
domination and economic might, but by also being recognized
as providing 'high culture'. And this is where I would like
to introduce a spoke into this pleasant idea that we can
blame the Saraswats for every ill in Goa.

Dominance in a society is not possibly entirely through
physical domination, especially by a group that forms a small
percentage of the total population. Such domination is
possible only through the active participation of other
groups in this domination.

The emphasis on Brahmins as the object of attack for creating
a caste-violence free society obfuscates issues rather than
contributes to addressing the matter. Being anti-brahmin is
not enough. On the contrary, it is not what is required in
the first place.

What is required is a hostility to the entire edifice of
Brahmanism that is propped up by brahmanised groups that are
not always Brahmin. For example, the Chardo landlord who
hates the Brahmin is not being anti-caste, but merely
fighting a caste battle for dominance. When he wins this
battle, it does not translate into any form of liberation for
the dalit below him.

A friend succinctly captured the sentiment when he remarked
For the Chardo, being anti-brahmin, is being anti-caste.

In early 20th century Maharashtra, moving toward kshatriya
status was seen as one route toward social mobility and
challenging caste violence. Gail Omvedt, a scholar who has
worked considerably on caste issues, identifies Shahu Maharaj
of Kolhapur as the harbinger of this process.

While being staunchly against untouchability and instituting
policies of positive affirmation (reservation), he did much
to challenge caste violence. However the desire to be
considered a kshatriya meant accepting many brahmanic norms;
it meant accepting sanskritic rituals, and it gave sanction
to all the similar efforts going on throughout the
Marathi-speaking areas whereby 'Maratha' and those of similar
caste were encouraged to consider themselves kshatriyas, use
the Gayatri mantra, use vedokta rituals and so forth.

         The result of this move was to weaken the critique
         of Brahmanism and shift the focus of the battle
         toward the brahmans. It was this strategic mistake
         that caused Dr. Ambedkar to clarify to young
         Marathas that you are against brahmans but not
         brahmanism; we are against brahmanism. Indeed,
         from the plethora of Maratha samaj in Goa we can
         see that this trend has had some influence in our
         State among the 'bahujan' and dalit groups here.

An anti-brahmanical ideology twines the two factors of class
and caste to move away from the casteist strategy of blindly
identifying a single or couple of caste groups as the enemy.

Employing such an ideology we realise that among the Goan
Catholic the all-encompassing terms of bamon and chardo don't
capture sociological reality. They are merely umbrellas that
club dominant bamons and chardos with the dalit bamons and
chardos in the same group.

By erasing the difference between the so-called 'first class'
and 'second-class' bamon and chardo we erase also the clarity
that the interests of these two groups are not the same.

         The 'first-class' group has more in common with
         each other and with the Saraswats and the Dessais,
         than with their 'second-class' compatriots.
         However, by placing them in one group, we create
         the