Re: [Goanet] Portuguese Citizenship for Goans - Interesting Issues

[Venantius J Pinto]

Well elucidated Roland.
—Venantius

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 10:38 AM, Roland  wrote:

> Portugal's Goa Consul-General's recent pronouncement has settled the muddy
> waters around Portuguese citizenship for the reported 200,000 or so Goans
> who have registered their births in the Lisbon Central Registry, viz they
> are Portuguese citizens.
>
> But there are some issues that remain, of no concern to Mr. Baceira, but
> important to Goans.
>
> 1. Was the Indian Govt "notification" circa 1962 that those who did not
> specifically opt to retain their Portuguese nationality automatically
> become Indian Citizens, in contravention of the Indian Constitution and
> therefore not legal. Was the notification upheld in an Indian court (Fr.
> Chico Monteiro, Leo Lawrence et alia).
>
> 2. Before India annexed Goa, it was sufficient that births were registered
> in Panjim to obtain a Portuguese passport or travel document. There were
> plans to move all those records to Lisbon but the annexation aborted this.
> Hence the Portuguese Govt's view that you never stopped being a Portuguese
> citizen, even if you opted for any other citizenship. By "you" is meant any
> Goan living in Goa before annexation date and their two generations after,
> wherever the latter lived. However, for administrative purposes it is
> required that you extract the Panjim record and register it in Lisbon.
>
> 3) Besides the matter of dual citizens in the Goa Govt service and
> electoral rolls, there are many Goans working in the Gulf countries who are
> there on Indian passports but are also Portuguese citizens by virtue of
> registering their (and parents) births in Lisbon. There will be chaos if
> they are forced to opt for one of the two - lose their European future or
> lose their jobs and Gulf residence permit based on their Indian passport.
>
> What a lot of headaches for the Indian Govt which can be solved with one
> stroke by allowing Dual Citizenship thereby also gaining the goodwill of
> the Indian (not just Goan) Diaspora which has been requesting it for many
> years.
>
> Here is an interesting aside:
> The previous Canadian Govt (Conservative) had brought into law that if
> convicted in a Canadian Court of serious terrorism charges, you would be
> deported if you were entitled to residence in any other country.
>
> This has made Indian origin employees in Canadian Govt service very
> skittish about getting the OCI since that entitles you to permanent Indian
> residence.
>
> The current Trudeau liberal govt had promised to repeal that law but has
> not yet done so.
>
> Roland Francis
> Toronto.

[Goanet] Portuguese Citizenship for Goans - Interesting Issues

[Roland]

Portugal's Goa Consul-General's recent pronouncement has settled the muddy 
waters around Portuguese citizenship for the reported 200,000 or so Goans who 
have registered their births in the Lisbon Central Registry, viz they are 
Portuguese citizens.

But there are some issues that remain, of no concern to Mr. Baceira, but 
important to Goans.

1. Was the Indian Govt "notification" circa 1962 that those who did not 
specifically opt to retain their Portuguese nationality automatically become 
Indian Citizens, in contravention of the Indian Constitution and therefore not 
legal. Was the notification upheld in an Indian court (Fr. Chico Monteiro, Leo 
Lawrence et alia).

2. Before India annexed Goa, it was sufficient that births were registered in 
Panjim to obtain a Portuguese passport or travel document. There were plans to 
move all those records to Lisbon but the annexation aborted this. Hence the 
Portuguese Govt's view that you never stopped being a Portuguese citizen, even 
if you opted for any other citizenship. By "you" is meant any Goan living in 
Goa before annexation date and their two generations after, wherever the latter 
lived. However, for administrative purposes it is required that you extract the 
Panjim record and register it in Lisbon.

3) Besides the matter of dual citizens in the Goa Govt service and electoral 
rolls, there are many Goans working in the Gulf countries who are there on 
Indian passports but are also Portuguese citizens by virtue of registering 
their (and parents) births in Lisbon. There will be chaos if they are forced to 
opt for one of the two - lose their European future or lose their jobs and Gulf 
residence permit based on their Indian passport.

What a lot of headaches for the Indian Govt which can be solved with one stroke 
by allowing Dual Citizenship thereby also gaining the goodwill of the Indian 
(not just Goan) Diaspora which has been requesting it for many years.

Here is an interesting aside: 
The previous Canadian Govt (Conservative) had brought into law that if 
convicted in a Canadian Court of serious terrorism charges, you would be 
deported if you were entitled to residence in any other country.

This has made Indian origin employees in Canadian Govt service very skittish 
about getting the OCI since that entitles you to permanent Indian residence.

The current Trudeau liberal govt had promised to repeal that law but has not 
yet done so.

Roland Francis
Toronto.

[Goanet] Portuguese Citizenship For Bombay's Jews

[roland.francis]

My friends Sonny (Samuel), Benny (Benjamin), Gary (Gershon) and all those 
Mahimkars, Poonekars, Samsons and Solomons once of Bombay and now in Israel can 
soon apply for Portuguese citizenship if the proposed law for admitting 
Sephardic Jews is passed soon.

It is good of Portugal which follows Spain, to make reparation even though 500 
years later, for the sins of the Inquisition that were heaped upon innocent 
Sephardics (Asian Jews) once in time, not only in Europe but in all the 
territories over which Portugal held sway including Bombay and Bassein.

The ancestors of Sonny, Benny and Gary, originally Moroccan and Tunisian Jews 
who probably set up shop in Europe, were displaced by Portuguese zealousness in 
practising their Catholicism and found their home and refuge with some kindly 
Indian Raja in the south and later on with the British in Bombay which was 
becoming a major trading city. 

Not wanting to retain their  distinctiveness in the public eye, to avoid 
repetition of their persection history, they took on Marathi names and began 
speaking Marathi fluently in order to meld with the locals, although they kept 
their Jewish identity at home and in synagogue worship.

Life in Israel is quite comfortable, westernized and more peaceful than before 
thanks to American support so I think Sonny et al will no longer need to learn 
Portuguese in addition to the English, Marathi and Hindi they knew in India and 
the Hebrew they had to learn in Israel. They had to serve their compulsory 
military service and became tough with the life in early Israel. Therefore the 
only reason they would take Portuguese citizenship would be either to satisfy 
one of their children for whom the EU beckoned or to get it to spy for the 
ubiquitous Mossad who no doubt have a presence in Goa.

Viva my Jewish friends and a toast to our shared history with the Portuguese.

Roland.
Toronto.


Sent from Samsung Mobile

[Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Dr . Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão]

An advocate view on citizenship and nationality based on International Law


http://www.epaperoheraldo.in/Details.aspx?id=12871boxid=18233265uid=dat=12/19/2013



Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.   

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Santosh Helekar]

If one examines a currently valid passport of any country, irrespective of 
whether the passport holder was born in foreign colonial captivity or not in 
the past, it becomes clear that both Shri Falcao and Shri Sanches have been 
misled. A citizen and passport holder of a country also holds its nationality. 
As an Indian citizen all Falcao has to do to ascertain this fact is to look at 
the page of his Indian passport that has his mugshot. One of the personal 
attributes listed on that page is nationality. Falcao's nationality
would be stated as being Indian on his Indian passport. Please see for example 
the pertinent page of Aishwarya Rai's Indian passport at this link, indicating 
that this Indian citizen has an Indian nationality:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JLryQEBdmkk/UKDEo1ZqkaI/AIs/RoYwM4OK2cQ/s1600/aishwarya's+passport1.jpg


Similarly, the nationalidade of the Portuguese citizen and passport holder Ines 
Garcao de Magalhaes is Portuguesa. Please see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PRTpassportdatapage.png

The nationality of a U.S. citizen who was born in India is U.S., not Indian. 
Please see:

http://www.immihelp.com/docs/sample-usa-american-passport.html

Cheers,

Santosh

[Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Cyrus A. Jose Sanches]

Heres what the Merriam -Webster dictionary has to say
Citizen

Relationship between an individual and a state in which the individual owes 
allegiance to the state and in turn is entitled to its protection. In general, 
full political rights, including the right to vote and to hold public office, 
are predicated on citizenship. Citizenship entails obligations, usually 
including allegiance, payment of taxes, and military service. The concept arose 
in ancient Greece, where citizenship was granted only to property owners. The 
Romans initially used it as a privilege to be conferred upon or withheld from 
conquered peoples, but it was granted to all the empire's free inhabitants in 
AD 212. The concept disappeared in Europe during the feudal era but was revived 
in the Renaissance. Citizenship may normally be gained by birth within a 
certain territory, descent from a parent who is a citizen, marriage to a 
citizen, or naturalization. See also nationality.

Nationality

Affiliation with a particular nation or sovereign state. People, business 
corporations, ships, and aircraft all have nationalities. Nationality is 
inferior to citizenship, insofar as the latter implies a full set of political 
privileges and the former does not. Countries have limited rights to determine 
which of their inhabitants will be their nationals. People generally acquire a 
nationality by birth within a particular country's territory, by inheritance 
from one or both parents, or by naturalization. It may change or be augmented 
or taken away if a country cedes control of the territory where one lives to 
another country.

As per the above it is clear that, till 1962, the people of Goa were citizens 
of Portugal as well as Portuguese nationals. From 1962 to 1973/4 the people of 
Goa were Portuguese citizens with Indian nationality. In other words prisoners 
of war. IF the treaty of 1973/4 signed between India and Portugal ending 
hostilities was ratified, the area known as Goa was no longer a  state or 
province of Portugal. The People of Goa become Indian nationals. 

However from 1961 the GOI recognised the people of Goa as  citizens of India. 
The GOP also recognised the people of Goa as citizens of Portugal. We therefore 
had dual nationality. Nobody asked the people of Goa their opinion regarding 
these changes. Therefore any forceful implementation of citizenship on the 
people of Goa defies international law. So the impasse continues. 

As per the definition citizenship does not change. Nationality can. We are 
therefore Portuguese citizens with Indian nationality. We have lived with this 
situation for the last 62 years. 

No one wants to rock the boat as having a plebiscite now would be disastrous.  

Those who have registered / recorded their births in Portugal have done so with 
the intention of claiming Portuguese citizenship and recognised as citizens of 
Portugal. But if residing in Goa are Indian Nationals.

The present situation allows them to do so. 

Let us reach an understanding, if you have recorded your birth in Portugal and 
accepted citizenship, but still live in Goa, the people of Goa have no Issue.

If the GOI has an issue, then do not take employment in GOI establishments.

I do not know any Goans who have loyalty to any country but Goa. 

India is claiming Goa. Portugal has an emotional attachment to Goa. What do we 
Goans want? The continuation of the Status Quo.

As far as I'm concerned, my birth certificate issued in Bombay declares my 
nationality as unknown. As the GOI recognised my Parents as Citizens of 
Portugal. So by birth I am a Citizen of Portugal. 

I have lived all my life in India, travelled the world on an Indian Passport, 
voted in every election. Support the Indian cricket and hockey teams, as well 
as the Portuguese and Brazilian  together with Dempo Football teams. 

I could not care which passport I use, I will caste my vote anywhere in the 
world. I do not care who calls me what. It does not matter. 

I my heart I am and will always be a Goan. 



Sets me free, my iPad3

Freezing cold. Hot beaches

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Gabe Menezes]

Here in the U.K. when we visit the Hospital either as an inpatient or
outpatient, we are given a form to fill out regarding ethnicity. We are not
compelled to do so but it helps. My family puts down Indian.

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Sandesh Anvekar]

People on this forum are still living under the delusions of
Aryan/Dravidian theories? Hard to get over the Colonial hangover I must
say..


On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 10:34 PM, Santosh Helekar chimbel...@yahoo.comwrote:

 I would like to thank Falcao for recognizing his Indian ethnicity and
 heritage. However, he did not tell me what his nationality was. Is he
 presently a citizen of India or not? As far as I know, most people who
 reside in Goa presently have Indian nationality i.e. they are citizens of
 India. So when these residents refer to Indians they would be by definition
 referring to themselves. Regarding people of Indian heritage like me and
 Falcao who are living or have lived abroad, they are invariably recognized
 as ethnically Indian in their respective countries of residence,
 irrespective of which state of India they or their ancestors came from, and
 irrespective of which colonial power occupied the place of their birth at
 the time of their birth. For example the U.S. census bureau recognizes me
 and people like me as Asian Indian. Please see:
 http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=DEC_10_SF1_QTP8prodType=table

 In all official forms that asks details about my ethnicity or race I have
 had to write that I am an Asian Indian under pain of penalty for perjury.
 In the American popular press and every sphere of public life in the U.S. I
 am referred to as Indian American, and the vast majority of us are proud of
 this fact.
 Please see:
 http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/asianamericans-graphics/indians/


 http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/24/bobby-jindal-indian-americans-opinions-contributors_immigrants_minority.html

 Cheers,

 Santosh


  On Saturday, December 14, 2013 6:18 AM, Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão 
 drferdina...@hotmail.com wrote:
  
 
  Santosh Helekar chimbelcho at yahoo.com on Fri Dec 13
  13:41:50 PST 2013 wrote:
 
  Is Falcao not an Indian? If so, what is his ethnic identity,
  and what is his nationality?
 
  Cheers, Santosh
 
  RESPONSE:
 
  Falcão was not born in the Republic of India, so he cannot
  be a born Indian.
 
  http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ethnic
 
  eth·nic : a. Of, relating to,
  or characteristic of a sizable group of people sharing a common and
 distinctive
  racial, national, religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage. UNQUOTE.
 
  As far as ethnic identity is concerned, he shares characteristics
  of a sizeable group of people sharing a common and distinctive, national,
  religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage of Goa or Estado da India.
 
  As far as race is concerned, maybe descendent of Kadambas,
  Shivaji, Dravidians, Aryans or the Portuguese themselves.Or maybe genes
 from
  Uncle Timoja
 
 
 
 
  Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.
 




-- 
Sandesh

[Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Dr . Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão]

Goans born before December 19, 1961 were all Portuguese
Nationals as well as Portuguese citizens. These Goans then became Indian
Citizens by the promulgation of the “Goa, Daman and Diu (Citizenship) Order,
1962”. The Nationality did not change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality

Quote

“Nationality is the legal relationship between a person and
a nation state.[1] Nationality normally confers some protection of the person
by the state, and some obligations on the person towards the state. What these
rights and duties are vary from country to country.[2] It differs technically
and legally from citizenship…”

Unquote.

I know there will be plenty unqualified arguments here from
some who know nothing about the legal implications. If India had not realised 
the
“obligations” of Portugal towards its nationals or if India had not realised
that Goans were not Indian Nationals; the Mario-Chavan accord would not have
taken place. 



Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.
  

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Venantius J Pinto]

Cyrus,
In a word, Sharp.

+
Venantius J Pinto


On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Cyrus A. Jose Sanches 
sanchescy...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Heres what the Merriam -Webster dictionary has to say
 Citizen

 Relationship between an individual and a state in which the individual
 owes allegiance to the state and in turn is entitled to its protection. In
 general, full political rights, including the right to vote and to hold
 public office, are predicated on citizenship. Citizenship entails
 obligations, usually including allegiance, payment of taxes, and military
 service. The concept arose in ancient Greece, where citizenship was granted
 only to property owners. The Romans initially used it as a privilege to be
 conferred upon or withheld from conquered peoples, but it was granted to
 all the empire's free inhabitants in AD 212. The concept disappeared in
 Europe during the feudal era but was revived in the Renaissance.
 Citizenship may normally be gained by birth within a certain territory,
 descent from a parent who is a citizen, marriage to a citizen, or
 naturalization. See also nationality.

 Nationality

 Affiliation with a particular nation or sovereign state. People, business
 corporations, ships, and aircraft all have nationalities. Nationality is
 inferior to citizenship, insofar as the latter implies a full set of
 political privileges and the former does not. Countries have limited rights
 to determine which of their inhabitants will be their nationals. People
 generally acquire a nationality by birth within a particular country's
 territory, by inheritance from one or both parents, or by naturalization.
 It may change or be augmented or taken away if a country cedes control of
 the territory where one lives to another country.

 As per the above it is clear that, till 1962, the people of Goa were
 citizens of Portugal as well as Portuguese nationals. From 1962 to 1973/4
 the people of Goa were Portuguese citizens with Indian nationality. In
 other words prisoners of war. IF the treaty of 1973/4 signed between India
 and Portugal ending hostilities was ratified, the area known as Goa was no
 longer a  state or province of Portugal. The People of Goa become Indian
 nationals.

 However from 1961 the GOI recognised the people of Goa as  citizens of
 India. The GOP also recognised the people of Goa as citizens of Portugal.
 We therefore had dual nationality. Nobody asked the people of Goa their
 opinion regarding these changes. Therefore any forceful implementation of
 citizenship on the people of Goa defies international law. So the impasse
 continues.

 As per the definition citizenship does not change. Nationality can. We are
 therefore Portuguese citizens with Indian nationality. We have lived with
 this situation for the last 62 years.

 No one wants to rock the boat as having a plebiscite now would be
 disastrous.

 Those who have registered / recorded their births in Portugal have done so
 with the intention of claiming Portuguese citizenship and recognised as
 citizens of Portugal. But if residing in Goa are Indian Nationals.

 The present situation allows them to do so.

 Let us reach an understanding, if you have recorded your birth in Portugal
 and accepted citizenship, but still live in Goa, the people of Goa have no
 Issue.

 If the GOI has an issue, then do not take employment in GOI establishments.

 I do not know any Goans who have loyalty to any country but Goa.

 India is claiming Goa. Portugal has an emotional attachment to Goa. What
 do we Goans want? The continuation of the Status Quo.

 As far as I'm concerned, my birth certificate issued in Bombay declares my
 nationality as unknown. As the GOI recognised my Parents as Citizens of
 Portugal. So by birth I am a Citizen of Portugal.

 I have lived all my life in India, travelled the world on an Indian
 Passport, voted in every election. Support the Indian cricket and hockey
 teams, as well as the Portuguese and Brazilian  together with Dempo
 Football teams.

 I could not care which passport I use, I will caste my vote anywhere in
 the world. I do not care who calls me what. It does not matter.

 I my heart I am and will always be a Goan.



 Sets me free, my iPad3

 Freezing cold. Hot beaches

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[J. Colaco jc]

On 16 December 2013 04:34, Sandesh Anvekar sandeshanve...@gmail.com wrote:

People on this forum are still living under the delusions of Aryan/Dravidian
theories? Hard to get over the Colonial hangover I must say..


Dear Mr. Anvekar,

I am not sure if it is a question of Delusion or Denial followed by
Revision.

Please tell us your Truth.

My Dalit (Harijan) brothers and sisters believe that all what is spouted is
a Delusion by the Colonialists.

We were, IMHO, colonised by both the Dravidians and the Aryans who swiped
our land

Never mind the Arrow.

jc

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[floriano lobo]

If your family had to put down 'GOAN', it would help redeem Goa from the 
clutches of neo-colonistas.





- Original Message - 
From: Gabe Menezes gabe.mene...@gmail.com

To: Goa's premiere mailing list, estb. 1994! goanet@lists.goanet.org
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship



Here in the U.K. when we visit the Hospital either as an inpatient or
outpatient, we are given a form to fill out regarding ethnicity. We are 
not
compelled to do so but it helps. My family puts down Indian. 

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[George Pinto]

When the categories are OTHER or OPTIONAL, please confuse the bureaucrats by 
completing forms as follows even if it does not make sense:

RACE: Human
NATIONALITY: Human 
ETHNICITY: Human

Besides the bureaucrats, it drives the nationalists (jingoists) and flag-wavers 
crazy. Also makes the insecure who hide behind race, ethnicity, nationality and 
other labels a bit bothered (including religious labels like Catholic, etc.). 
Never hurts to question traditional ways of thinking.

Hope this helps.

George   

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[J. Colaco jc]

On 16 December 2013 15:00, George Pinto georgejpi...@yahoo.com wrote:

When the categories are OTHER or OPTIONAL, please confuse the bureaucrats
by completing forms as follows even if it does not make sense:

RACE: Human
NATIONALITY: Human
ETHNICITY: Human

Besides the bureaucrats, it drives the nationalists (jingoists) and
flag-wavers crazy. Also makes the insecure who hide behind race,
ethnicity, nationality and other labels a bit bothered (including religious
labels like Catholic, etc.). Never hurts to question traditional ways of
thinking.



Dear George,

I have been reading this Census and NHS  Classification by Ethnicity.
This is their classification,
http://www.isb.nhs.uk/documents/dscn/dscn2004/212004.pdf

My educated guess: While the proffered purpose of this
data sub-stratification may be said to be In order to identify the special
needs of the different groups, a quick review will reveal that these so
called special needs are hardly ever identified and the 'needs hardly
ever budgeted for...unless the political calculus indicated a political
value to the dispensation in charge.

The following short comedy routine is not entirely based on fiction

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eyf97LAjjcY

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Gabriel de Figueiredo]

Hi George,
Hospitals and medical institutions request ethnic information because, I 
believe,  certain diseases like thalassemia, sickle cell disease and a few 
others, which the doctors on this forum will know, largely occur within certain 
ethnicities.  Not to say that other ethnicities are totally free of such 
diseases. 
Cheers, Gabriel.

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Santosh Helekar]

It looks like Falcao's speculations are exactly the opposite of that of Shri 
Cyrus Sanches. Perhaps, it is because Falcao consults the Wikipedia and Shri 
Sanches consults the Merriam-Webster dictionary to obtain their legal knowledge 
about immigration, citizenship and nationality laws.

Here is what Falcao claims:
QUOTE
Goans born before December 19, 1961 were all Portuguese Nationals as well as 
Portuguese citizens. These Goans then became Indian Citizens by the 
promulgation of the “Goa, Daman and Diu (Citizenship) Order, 1962”. The 
Nationality did not change.

UNQUOTE
..Shri Ferdinando Falcao


Here is how Shri Sanches contradicts Falcao:
QUOTE
As per the definition citizenship does not change. Nationality can. We are 
therefore Portuguese citizens with Indian nationality. We have lived with this 
situation for the last 62 years. 
UNQUOTE
..Shri Cyrus Sanches

Now, I know that Falcao is not a lawyer, let alone one who specializes in 
immigration law. He is a general practitioner from Margao, Goa, India or 
thereabouts. Of course, it is possible that he is a notary public in addition. 

I don't know if Shri Sanches is an Indian or Portuguese immigration lawyer or 
not.

Cheers,

Santosh


On Monday, December 16, 2013 12:37 PM, Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão 
drferdina...@hotmail.com wrote:

 
 Goans born before December 19, 1961 were all Portuguese
 Nationals as well as Portuguese citizens. These Goans then became Indian
 Citizens by the promulgation of the “Goa, Daman and Diu (Citizenship) Order,
 1962”. The Nationality did not change.
 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationality
 
 Quote
 
 “Nationality is the legal relationship between a person and
 a nation state.[1] Nationality normally confers some protection of the person
 by the state, and some obligations on the person towards the state. What these
 rights and duties are vary from country to country.[2] It differs technically
 and legally from citizenship…”
 
 Unquote.
 
 I know there will be plenty unqualified arguments here from
 some who know nothing about the legal implications. If India had not realised 
 the
 “obligations” of Portugal towards its nationals or if India had not realised
 that Goans were not Indian Nationals; the Mario-Chavan accord would not have
 taken place. 
 


On Monday, December 16, 2013 3:01 AM, Cyrus A. Jose Sanches 
sanchescy...@hotmail.com wrote:
  Heres what the Merriam -Webster dictionary has to say
 Citizen
 
 Relationship between an individual and a state in which the individual owes 
 allegiance to the state and in turn is entitled to its protection. In 
 general, 
 full political rights, including the right to vote and to hold public office, 
 are predicated on citizenship. Citizenship entails obligations, usually 
 including allegiance, payment of taxes, and military service. The concept 
 arose 
 in ancient Greece, where citizenship was granted only to property owners. The 
 Romans initially used it as a privilege to be conferred upon or withheld from 
 conquered peoples, but it was granted to all the empire's free inhabitants 
 in AD 212. The concept disappeared in Europe during the feudal era but was 
 revived in the Renaissance. Citizenship may normally be gained by birth 
 within a 
 certain territory, descent from a parent who is a citizen, marriage to a 
 citizen, or naturalization. See also nationality.
 
 Nationality
 
 Affiliation with a particular nation or sovereign state. People, business 
 corporations, ships, and aircraft all have nationalities. Nationality is 
 inferior to citizenship, insofar as the latter implies a full set of 
 political 
 privileges and the former does not. Countries have limited rights to 
 determine 
 which of their inhabitants will be their nationals. People generally acquire 
 a 
 nationality by birth within a particular country's territory, by inheritance 
 from one or both parents, or by naturalization. It may change or be augmented 
 or 
 taken away if a country cedes control of the territory where one lives to 
 another country.

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[J. Colaco jc]

Gabriel

I suggest that this may not be the entire picture.

Please try decipher WHY they need such information in the census reports

jc


On 16 December 2013 17:14, Gabriel de Figueiredo gdefigueir...@yahoo.com.au
 wrote:

 Hi George,
 Hospitals and medical institutions request ethnic information because, I
 believe,  certain diseases like thalassemia, sickle cell disease and a few
 others, which the doctors on this forum will know, largely occur within
 certain ethnicities.  Not to say that other ethnicities are totally free of
 such diseases.
 Cheers, Gabriel.

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Gabriel de Figueiredo]

I couldn#39;t have put it better.

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Santosh Helekar]

I would like to thank Falcao for recognizing his Indian ethnicity and heritage. 
However, he did not tell me what his nationality was. Is he presently a citizen 
of India or not? As far as I know, most people who reside in Goa presently have 
Indian nationality i.e. they are citizens of India. So when these residents 
refer to Indians they would be by definition referring to themselves. Regarding 
people of Indian heritage like me and Falcao who are living or have lived 
abroad, they are invariably recognized as ethnically Indian in their respective 
countries of residence, irrespective of which state of India they or their 
ancestors came from, and irrespective of which colonial power occupied the 
place of their birth at the time of their birth. For example the U.S. census 
bureau recognizes me and people like me as Asian Indian. Please see: 
http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=DEC_10_SF1_QTP8prodType=table

In all official forms that asks details about my ethnicity or race I have had 
to write that I am an Asian Indian under pain of penalty for perjury. In the 
American popular press and every sphere of public life in the U.S. I am 
referred to as Indian American, and the vast majority of us are proud of this 
fact. 
Please see: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/asianamericans-graphics/indians/

            
http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/24/bobby-jindal-indian-americans-opinions-contributors_immigrants_minority.html

Cheers,

Santosh


 On Saturday, December 14, 2013 6:18 AM, Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão 
 drferdina...@hotmail.com wrote:
  
 
 Santosh Helekar chimbelcho at yahoo.com on Fri Dec 13
 13:41:50 PST 2013 wrote:
 
 Is Falcao not an Indian? If so, what is his ethnic identity,
 and what is his nationality? 
 
 Cheers, Santosh
 
 RESPONSE:
 
 Falcão was not born in the Republic of India, so he cannot
 be a born Indian.
 
 http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ethnic
 
 eth·nic : a. Of, relating to,
 or characteristic of a sizable group of people sharing a common and 
 distinctive
 racial, national, religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage. UNQUOTE.
 
 As far as ethnic identity is concerned, he shares characteristics
 of a sizeable group of people sharing a common and distinctive, national,
 religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage of Goa or Estado da India.
 
 As far as race is concerned, maybe descendent of Kadambas,
 Shivaji, Dravidians, Aryans or the Portuguese themselves.Or maybe genes from 
 Uncle Timoja
 
 
 
 
 Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.                            

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Santosh Helekar]

Is Falcao not an Indian? If so, what is his ethnic identity, and what is his 
nationality?

Cheers,

Santosh



 On Friday, December 13, 2013 3:48 AM, Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão 
 drferdina...@hotmail.com wrote:
  Prof. Sergio Carvalho has made it abundantly clear in his write up on 
 today's O Heraldo, the duplicity and ad-lib opinions of Indians on the above 
 topic.
 
 
 
 http://www.epaperoheraldo.in/Details.aspx?id=12753boxid=175450859uid=dat=12/13/2013
 
 
 
 Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.                            

[Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Dr . Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão]

Santosh Helekar chimbelcho at yahoo.com on Fri Dec 13
13:41:50 PST 2013 wrote:

Is Falcao not an Indian? If so, what is his ethnic identity,
and what is his nationality? 

Cheers, Santosh

 

RESPONSE:

Falcão was not born in the Republic of India, so he cannot
be a born Indian.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ethnic

eth·nic : a. Of, relating to,
or characteristic of a sizable group of people sharing a common and distinctive
racial, national, religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage. UNQUOTE.

As far as ethnic identity is concerned, he shares characteristics
of a sizeable group of people sharing a common and distinctive, national,
religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage of Goa or Estado da India.

As far as race is concerned, maybe descendent of Kadambas,
Shivaji, Dravidians, Aryans or the Portuguese themselves.Or maybe genes from 
Uncle Timoja




Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.   

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[J. Colaco jc]

On 14 December 2013 05:16, Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão wrote:

Falcão was not born in the Republic of India, so he cannot be a born
Indian.


COMMENT:

Dr. Falcão raises an important point wrt nationality.

Miss America 2013, Nina Davuluri, responded to racist swipes (possibly by
those who believe in stereotyping others) thus: I always viewed myself as
first and foremost American.

Nina Davuluri is a born American.

I know of NO US-born individuals applying for a passport / job in the US
who write that they are Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Sri Lankan etc. If
you know otherwise, please advise.

BTW: I know of NO pre-1961 Goa-born Goans traveling pre-1961 from Goa (via
Bombay) to East Africa or  Brazil etc who indicated that their nationality
was Indian.

Ditto wrt to ANY Goan traveling to East Africa etc pre-1947.

I have not spoken to the Dalai Lama, but I doubt he considers himself as
Chinese even in 2013.

I also doubt that Kashmiris, Nagas or the good folks from Manipur and
Andamans can be placed in the same ethnic pot (so to speak).

I also doubt that (say) a Punjabi family will readily welcome a Tamilian
daughter in law.

It is past time that we accept the following:

a: India 2013 (like the former USSR or Yugoslavia etc) is a mixed salad of
people of different ethnic backgrounds.

b: Depending upon where one is, the majority ingredient in this 'mixed
salad' is likely to be different. It is likely to be more Aryan in the
North and more Dravidian in the South.

c: As there was NO India (but only British India antes 1947, French India
antes 1954 and Portuguese India antes 1961), we would do well by being
reasonable about these issues.

d: Just because (say) China invades and takes over Assam amanha and annexes
it,  does not mean that all Assamese MUST consider themselves Chinese.

e: This useless jingoism and intolerance is contrary to the reasonable
application of the principle of self-determination.

Finally, let us ask ourselves the following:

WHY is it that so many young Goans have opted in 2013 to go and lead
difficult lives (say) in Swindon rather than stay at home in Goa?

WHY have so many Goans (who did not really need the EU passport for travel,
jobs etc) voluntarily given up their Indian nationality and re-affirmed
their Portuguese nationality?

Do we really make 'others' love 'us' more by beating up on them and
destroying their environment?

jc

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Jose Colaco]

While Prof Carvalho has written an excellent article, I believe he has made a 
slip wrt Nehru and the 1974 Treaty.

Nehru died 10 yrs before that treaty was signed.

jc


 On Dec 12, 2013, at 9:14 PM, Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão 
 drferdina...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
 Prof. Sergio Carvalho has made it abundantly clear in his write up on today's 
 O Heraldo, the duplicity and ad-lib opinions of Indians on the above topic.
 
 
 http://www.epaperoheraldo.in/Details.aspx?id=12753boxid=175450859uid=dat=12/13/2013
 
 
 
 Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão. 

[Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Dr . Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão]

Prof. Sergio Carvalho has made it abundantly clear in his write up on today's O 
Heraldo, the duplicity and ad-lib opinions of Indians on the above topic.



http://www.epaperoheraldo.in/Details.aspx?id=12753boxid=175450859uid=dat=12/13/2013



Dr. Ferdinando dos Reis Falcão.   

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Gabriel de Figueiredo]

I am not sure which political history Eugene refers to, but I have found, 
after a brief research on the internet the following: 
1.  Coins dating as far back as 1934 (before the Indian Union and far before 
the Republic of India was born), with Estado da India stamped on them. 
http://www.chiefacoins.com/Database/Countries/Portuguese_India.htm refers.
 
2. After their arrival in the Indian Ocean in 1498 and a short period of 
operation in southern India, the Portuguese established the administrative and 
political centre of their Asian empire at Goa. The Estado da India, the State 
of India, the name given by the Portuguese Crown to this imperial enterprise, 
was not a unitary state but a collection of forts, fleets, and communities that 
stretched from east Africa to Japan.
http://ebooks.cambridge.org/chapter.jsf?bid=CBO9780511563454cid=CBO9780511563454A010
 
See also The center and the periphery in the administration of the Royal 
Exchequer of the Estado da Índia (1517-1640)
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Portuguese_Brazilian_Studies/ejph/html/issue14/pdf/smiranda.pdf
 
3. Trade and Finance in Portuguese India by Celsa Pinto  makes reference to 
Memória Histórico-Económica das Alfandegas do Estado da Índia Portugueza 
(Francisco Xavier Ernesto Fernandes) published in Lisbon, 1899.
 
This indicates that the term Estado da India had a history of its usage far, 
far longer than what Eugene assumes to be. It wasn't just an invention on 
Salazar's part -- if this is what Eugene is referring to political history 
which many Indians beyond the ghats believed in. Goa, Damao, Diu, Dadra and 
Nagar Haveli were the bits and pieces that comprised the remains (in the 20th 
century) of a much larger Estado da India established centuries ago. 
 
All members of the Estado da India had equal rights as those who came from 
Lisbon since Marques de Pombal, which were reduced temporarily for a short 
period in 1930s and 40s by the Estado Novo, and were re-established in the 50s. 
I am sorry I cannot give the exact periods, as I don't have the materials at 
hand.  
 
Gabriel de Figueiredo.

From: Eugene Correia eugene.corr...@gmail.com
To: goa...@goanet.org 
Sent: Wednesday, 11 December 2013 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship


It looks surprising that some have said that those born before Goa's
Liberation has Portuguese nationality as its birthright. Political
history showed why Portugal made Goa a province and named it Estado da
India. To give such a legality to what Goa was then, just a colony, is a
play on constitution.

It didn't fool the international community of nations. Neither did UNO take
cognizance of such an Act. Pulling wool over the eyes of people was the aim
of such an Act, and India was none the wiser with Portuguese.

Now with the issue of Portuguese passports to those who desire, this issue
of birthright has come to the fore. The India-Portugal treaty overrides
any Acts that would be applicable to Goans after Goa came into the Indian
fold.

There was a blanket Indian citizenship to all Goans irrespective of their
allegiance to Portugal. Can't ignore the fact that if staying in Goa,
though some Portuguese laws are enforced in Goa, the Indian laws are
applicable.

As I said earlier in my opinion piece in OHeraldo, the Indian government
can give an amnesty to Portuguese passpor-holders with a conditional time
limit. Better these people go for OCI card. The Goa government must work
with the centre to sort this problem lest all those in Goa suffer.

Good that the issue has come up to the surface, for which we must thank
both Caitu and Churchill. The issue can be settled for once and for all.

Eugene

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Jose Colaco]

Dear Gabriel,

Thanks

Now, I am sure Eugene Correia will list his reference.

stay tuned.

jc



Pardon any Typos. This IPad does some curious auto- corrections


 On Dec 12, 2013, at 12:42 AM, Gabriel de Figueiredo 
 gdefigueir...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
 
 I am not sure which political history Eugene refers to, but I have found, 
 after a brief research on the internet the following: 
 1.  Coins dating as far back as 1934 (before the Indian Union and far before 
 the Republic of India was born), with Estado da India stamped on them. 
 http://www.chiefacoins.com/Database/Countries/Portuguese_India.htm refers.
  
 2. After their arrival in the Indian Ocean in 1498 and a short period of 
 operation in southern India, the Portuguese established the administrative 
 and political centre of their Asian empire at Goa. The Estado da India, the 
 State of India, the name given by the Portuguese Crown to this imperial 
 enterprise, was not a unitary state but a collection of forts, fleets, and 
 communities that stretched from east Africa to Japan.
 http://ebooks.cambridge.org/chapter.jsf?bid=CBO9780511563454cid=CBO9780511563454A010
  
 See also The center and the periphery in the administration of the Royal 
 Exchequer of the Estado da Índia (1517-1640)
 http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Portuguese_Brazilian_Studies/ejph/html/issue14/pdf/smiranda.pdf
  
 3. Trade and Finance in Portuguese India by Celsa Pinto  makes reference to 
 Memória Histórico-Económica das Alfandegas do Estado da Índia Portugueza 
 (Francisco Xavier Ernesto Fernandes) published in Lisbon, 1899.
  
 This indicates that the term Estado da India had a history of its usage 
 far, far longer than what Eugene assumes to be. It wasn't just an invention 
 on Salazar's part -- if this is what Eugene is referring to political 
 history which many Indians beyond the ghats believed in. Goa, Damao, Diu, 
 Dadra and Nagar Haveli were the bits and pieces that comprised the remains 
 (in the 20th century) of a much larger Estado da India established centuries 
 ago. 
  
 All members of the Estado da India had equal rights as those who came from 
 Lisbon since Marques de Pombal, which were reduced temporarily for a short 
 period in 1930s and 40s by the Estado Novo, and were re-established in the 
 50s. I am sorry I cannot give the exact periods, as I don't have the 
 materials at hand.  
  
 Gabriel de Figueiredo.
 
 From: Eugene Correia eugene.corr...@gmail.com
 To: goa...@goanet.org 
 Sent: Wednesday, 11 December 2013 5:02 PM
 Subject: Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship
 
 
 It looks surprising that some have said that those born before Goa's
 Liberation has Portuguese nationality as its birthright. Political
 history showed why Portugal made Goa a province and named it Estado da
 India. To give such a legality to what Goa was then, just a colony, is a
 play on constitution.
 
 It didn't fool the international community of nations. Neither did UNO take
 cognizance of such an Act. Pulling wool over the eyes of people was the aim
 of such an Act, and India was none the wiser with Portuguese.
 
 Now with the issue of Portuguese passports to those who desire, this issue
 of birthright has come to the fore. The India-Portugal treaty overrides
 any Acts that would be applicable to Goans after Goa came into the Indian
 fold.
 
 There was a blanket Indian citizenship to all Goans irrespective of their
 allegiance to Portugal. Can't ignore the fact that if staying in Goa,
 though some Portuguese laws are enforced in Goa, the Indian laws are
 applicable.
 
 As I said earlier in my opinion piece in OHeraldo, the Indian government
 can give an amnesty to Portuguese passpor-holders with a conditional time
 limit. Better these people go for OCI card. The Goa government must work
 with the centre to sort this problem lest all those in Goa suffer.
 
 Good that the issue has come up to the surface, for which we must thank
 both Caitu and Churchill. The issue can be settled for once and for all.
 
 Eugene
 
 
 

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

[Eugene Correia]

It looks surprising that some have said that those born before Goa's
Liberation has Portuguese nationality as its birthright. Political
history showed why Portugal made Goa a province and named it Estado da
India. To give such a legality to what Goa was then, just a colony, is a
play on constitution.

It didn't fool the international community of nations. Neither did UNO take
cognizance of such an Act. Pulling wool over the eyes of people was the aim
of such an Act, and India was none the wiser with Portuguese.

Now with the issue of Portuguese passports to those who desire, this issue
of birthright has come to the fore. The India-Portugal treaty overrides
any Acts that would be applicable to Goans after Goa came into the Indian
fold.

There was a blanket Indian citizenship to all Goans irrespective of their
allegiance to Portugal. Can't ignore the fact that if staying in Goa,
though some Portuguese laws are enforced in Goa, the Indian laws are
applicable.

As I said earlier in my opinion piece in OHeraldo, the Indian government
can give an amnesty to Portuguese passpor-holders with a conditional time
limit. Better these people go for OCI card. The Goa government must work
with the centre to sort this problem lest all those in Goa suffer.

Good that the issue has come up to the surface, for which we must thank
both Caitu and Churchill. The issue can be settled for once and for all.

Eugene

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese Citizenship

[eustace fernandes]

Dear Ana-Maria,
 
Thank you for sharing the information. 
If he/she is already owning agriculture land or inherited from ancestors then 
how does it work.  
 
Thank you in advance.
 
Eustace 
Dubai
 
 
From: Ana Maria de souza-Goswami anamari...@dataone.in
To: goanet@lists.goanet.org 
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 7:19 PM
Subject: [Goanet] Portuguese Citizenship

Just a correction I want to make. An Indian holding a foreign passport  with an 
OCD card, he/she can get employment, start a business, but cannot stand for 
elections, or vote. Its correct he/she cannot buy agricultural land, but can 
buy a flat/house.

Ana Maria de Souza-Goswami

[Goanet] Portuguese citizenship............

[eustace fernandes]

Dears,
 
Can anyone have an update if India would allow dual nationality anytime soon?
 
Thank you in advance for the information.
 
Regards,
Eustace 

From: Vivian A. DSouza socorro...@yahoo.com
To: goanet@lists.goanet.org 
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 6:36 PM
Subject: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship

I realize that  for many, acquiring a Portuguese passport, is a ticket out of 
Goa/India.  But as Roland has pointed out there are a number of issues to 
consider. Acquiring a Portuguese passport effectively means giving up Indian 
Nationality and all the perks in India that go along with being an Indian.  One 
has to apply for a PIO or OCI card to stay in India, cannot take up any 
employment in India, cannot acquire or hold agricultural land, cannot have a 
ration card or a voting card etc. etc. 
 
 All of Europe is undergoing severe economic stress. with high unemployment 
etc. Anyone contemplating the acquisition of a Portuguese passport should keep 
these factors in mind.  As Europe becomes a less desirable destination for 
immigrants, companies/Lawyers who specialize in the acquisition of  a 
Portuguese passport find that their clientele is dropping in numbers.  Hence 
the aggresive marketing in India itself.
 
I am not trying to discourage anyone from trying to better their prospects by 
emigrating.
Just be aware of all the facts before taking this step.
---

                      Protect Goa's natural beauty

                    Support Goa's first Tiger Reserve

  Sign the petition at:    http://www.goanet.org/petition/petition.php

---

[Goanet] Portuguese Citizenship

[Ana Maria de souza-Goswami]

Just a correction I want to make. An Indian holding a foreign passport  with 
an OCD card, he/she can get employment, start a business, but cannot stand 
for elections, or vote. Its correct he/she cannot buy agricultural land, but 
can buy a flat/house.


Ana Maria de Souza-Goswami 

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese Citizenship

[Jose Colaco]

Ah Ana-Maria!

Am still a bit perplexed by the OCD card.

This means that most Goans will not be able to contest elections or vote in 
them.

jc
(;-)

Pardon any Typos. This IPad does some curious auto- corrections


On Jun 12, 2012, at 11:19 AM, Ana Maria de souza-Goswami 
anamari...@dataone.in wrote:

 Just a correction I want to make. An Indian holding a foreign passport  with 
 an OCD card, he/she can get employment, start a business, but cannot stand 
 for elections, or vote. Its correct he/she cannot buy agricultural land, but 
 can buy a flat/house.
 
 Ana Maria de Souza-Goswami 

[Goanet] Portuguese Citizenship

[Ana Maria de souza-Goswami]

My apologies there was a typing error. Its OCI Card and not OCD. Sorry about 
that.


Ana Maria de Souza-Goswami 

[Goanet] Portuguese citizenship............

[Vivian A. DSouza]

I realize that  for many, acquiring a Portuguese passport, is a ticket out of 
Goa/India.  But as Roland has pointed out there are a number of issues to 
consider. Acquiring a Portuguese passport effectively means giving up Indian 
Nationality and all the perks in India that go along with being an Indian.  One 
has to apply for a PIO or OCI card to stay in India, cannot take up any 
employment in India, cannot acquire or hold agricultural land, cannot have a 
ration card or a voting card etc. etc. 
 
 All of Europe is undergoing severe economic stress. with high unemployment 
etc. Anyone contemplating the acquisition of a Portuguese passport should keep 
these factors in mind.  As Europe becomes a less desirable destination for 
immigrants, companies/Lawyers who specialize in the acquisition of  a 
Portuguese passport find that their clientele is dropping in numbers.  Hence 
the aggresive marketing in India itself.
 
I am not trying to discourage anyone from trying to better their prospects by 
emigrating.
Just be aware of all the facts before taking this step.
---

   Protect Goa's natural beauty

Support Goa's first Tiger Reserve

  Sign the petition at: http://www.goanet.org/petition/petition.php

---

[Goanet] Portuguese Citizenship Acquisition for Goans.

[Roland Francis]

I hope that the organizers of these seminars are also advising Goans of
their legal duty to the Indian Republic to give up their Indian citizenship
and surrender their Indian passports once they receive Portuguese passports,
failing which they are in an illegal position and subject to the punitive
sanctions of the law. This includes financial repercussions of giving up
their resident or non-resident benefits.

Roland.
Toronto.



URGENT - Saturday,24  March , 2012, 5.00pm -  Seminar on Portuguese
Citizenship/Nationality in Mumbai, Catholic Gymkhana, Marine Drive, Mumbai 
All are invited. 


Dr.Bernando Reis, a Portuguese Consultant and an Expert on Portuguese
Citizenship,will conduct the Seminar. Dr. Reis represents MRA. MRA is
specialized in the Portuguese Citizenship matters relating to people of Goan
origin and people from other Portuguese colonies/areas. They are in this
field for over 20 years. Through the services of MRA, hundreds of Goans have
obtained their Portuguese Birth Certificate, Marriage Certificate,
Citizenship and Passport.
MRA is having a couple
of offices in a few countries including a support office in Goa. Dr Reis has
already conducted on this topic, a number of informative seminars in
countries all over the World and recently in Qatar and Kuwait.
---


---

   Protect Goa's natural beauty

Support Goa's first Tiger Reserve

  Sign the petition at: http://www.goanet.org/petition/petition.php

---

Re: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship for Indians

[Ashley D'Silva]

When I mentioned this to my colleague from The Netherlands - he says India
is a good bet.
The situation in Europe is bad. The only two countries that are strong is 
Germany and 'The Netherlands'.  

Portugal's economy is in dire straits and is being temporarily propped up by
the EU.
In the EU community the respect for Portugal  Spain is not ideal.
India fares  better.

His comments about the recent bails outs - 'it will take  generations to pay
back 'The Netherlands'  Germany for loaning them the money' came true after
one year.
What was predicated by him about Ireland , Iceland   Greece all came true. 
At that time he also mentioned Portugal  Spain.

So dear Goans do not throw your Indian Citizenship and  abort Goa.

Ashley D'Silva



-Original Message-
From: goanet-boun...@lists.goanet.org
[mailto:goanet-boun...@lists.goanet.org] On Behalf Of armstrong augusto vaz
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:37 PM
To: goa...@goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet] Portuguese citizenship for Indians

http://www.consuladoportugalgoa.com/initialpage1.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_nationality_law

http://www.merinews.com/article/goans-explore-europe-through-portuguese-citi
zenship/130316.shtml

http://www.groundreport.com/Business/Learn-Portuguese-to-earn-a-passport/292
4172

Time is ticking by. The alarm bells are ringing. It may well turn out
to be a false alarm but as of now no one knows and there is no
official word on it till date.
Will the special option accorded by the Portuguese government for
residents hailing from Estado da India to become Portuguese citizens
closed in the coming years. The chances are by and large that at some
point of time, the Portuguese government may crack the whip and say
enough is enough.
So, there is mad rush to cross the finish line. Yes, hundreds of
Indians from the Estado da India are making a bee line to get the
Portuguese citizenship.
What that actually means is that those born in Goa before 1961 are
still Portuguese citizens even today according to Portuguese law.
However, since the birth records were left in Goa after the brutal
invasion by the Indian army in December 1961, the Portuguese
authorities are not aware of the existence of these Portuguese
citizens in that part of the world. The fact remains that they are
indeed Portuguese citizens according to Portuguese law and full
Portuguese/European citizenship rights are available to them if they
wish to avail of those rights. In order to avail of those rights, you
need to register your birth in Portugal
Portugal is not granting Goans Portuguese citizenship. They are
already Portuguese citizens by virtue of having been born in Estado da
India Portuguesa or by virtue of being descendents of those born
there.

Goans born before 1961 do not become naturalised citizens of Portugal
because they always were Portuguese citizens and retained their
Portuguese citizenship after 1961, according to Portuguese law. Even
if they only register their birth in Portugal today, that act of
registration of their birth in Portugal today is backdated to their
date of birth as they are and will always be Portuguese citizens of
origin and not naturalised Portuguese citizens.

Lisbon based Pedro Rodrigues, a Goan-origin advocate, who traces his
roots to Moira village and who specializes in the Portuguese
Citizenship says: The chances are that they (Portugal) may close it
down. So it is better to complete the formalities before the year end.
Never be late and regret at a later date, said Rodrigues who was on a
three-day tour to Qatar to help Goans in acquiring a Portuguese
passport.
Rodriguese said this was his first visit to Qatar and for that matter
to the Middle East. And, he promised to come again to Doha if the need
arose.
The soft spoken attorney was in the Qatari capital at the invitation
of Doha Goans Sports Club (DGSC) and also conducted an seminar for the
benefit of Goans in Qatar.
Mathew Estrocio, an executive committee member of DGSC was happy with
the turn out.
Many Goans came to see him and they came well prepared having with
documents which are necessary to start the process. Rodrigues, gave
them a patient hearing and some of the interested individuals then had
one-to-one discussion with the resource person from Portugal,
Estrocio who hails from Carazalem.
Call it a second wave of migration or by any other name.  A large
number of Goans are in the process of changing their citizenship, with
an eye on a bright future in some European country- predominantly
England.
The first wave of migration started from Goa with our forefathers
migrating to different lands through  the sea route, lands as far as
Africa.  Some Goans made Kenya and other African regions their home.
Some were accorded the right to have UK citizenship when trouble broke
out in Uganda and all Indians were chased away by Idi Amin.
The craze to acquire a Portuguese passport is not restricted to Goans
based in Goa and other GCC countries. Goans based in Australia

[Goanet] Portuguese citizenship for Indians

[armstrong augusto vaz]

http://www.consuladoportugalgoa.com/initialpage1.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_nationality_law

http://www.merinews.com/article/goans-explore-europe-through-portuguese-citizenship/130316.shtml

http://www.groundreport.com/Business/Learn-Portuguese-to-earn-a-passport/2924172

Time is ticking by. The alarm bells are ringing. It may well turn out
to be a false alarm but as of now no one knows and there is no
official word on it till date.
Will the special option accorded by the Portuguese government for
residents hailing from Estado da India to become Portuguese citizens
closed in the coming years. The chances are by and large that at some
point of time, the Portuguese government may crack the whip and say
enough is enough.
So, there is mad rush to cross the finish line. Yes, hundreds of
Indians from the Estado da India are making a bee line to get the
Portuguese citizenship.
“What that actually means is that those born in Goa before 1961 are
still Portuguese citizens even today according to Portuguese law.
However, since the birth records were left in Goa after the brutal
invasion by the Indian army in December 1961, the Portuguese
authorities are not aware of the existence of these Portuguese
citizens in that part of the world. The fact remains that they are
indeed Portuguese citizens according to Portuguese law and full
Portuguese/European citizenship rights are available to them if they
wish to avail of those rights. In order to avail of those rights, you
need to register your birth in Portugal”
Portugal is not granting Goans Portuguese citizenship. They are
already Portuguese citizens by virtue of having been born in Estado da
India Portuguesa or by virtue of being descendents of those born
there.

Goans born before 1961 do not become naturalised citizens of Portugal
because they always were Portuguese citizens and retained their
Portuguese citizenship after 1961, according to Portuguese law. Even
if they only register their birth in Portugal today, that act of
registration of their birth in Portugal today is backdated to their
date of birth as they are and will always be Portuguese citizens of
origin and not naturalised Portuguese citizens.

Lisbon based Pedro Rodrigues, a Goan-origin advocate, who traces his
roots to Moira village and who specializes in the Portuguese
Citizenship says: “The chances are that they (Portugal) may close it
down. So it is better to complete the formalities before the year end.
Never be late and regret at a later date,” said Rodrigues who was on a
three-day tour to Qatar to help Goans in acquiring a Portuguese
passport.
Rodriguese said this was his first visit to Qatar and for that matter
to the Middle East. And, he promised to come again to Doha if the need
arose.
The soft spoken attorney was in the Qatari capital at the invitation
of Doha Goans Sports Club (DGSC) and also conducted an seminar for the
benefit of Goans in Qatar.
Mathew Estrocio, an executive committee member of DGSC was happy with
the turn out.
“Many Goans came to see him and they came well prepared having with
documents which are necessary to start the process. Rodrigues, gave
them a patient hearing and some of the interested individuals then had
one-to-one discussion with the resource person from Portugal,”
Estrocio who hails from Carazalem.
Call it a second wave of migration or by any other name.  A large
number of Goans are in the process of changing their citizenship, with
an eye on a bright future in some European country- predominantly
England.
The first wave of migration started from Goa with our forefathers
migrating to different lands through  the sea route, lands as far as
Africa.  Some Goans made Kenya and other African regions their home.
Some were accorded the right to have UK citizenship when trouble broke
out in Uganda and all Indians were chased away by Idi Amin.
The craze to acquire a Portuguese passport is not restricted to Goans
based in Goa and other GCC countries. Goans based in Australia and
Kenya are inquiring about the process and the documents required to
acquire a passport.
“I get calls and emails from different parts of the world,” says Rodrigues.
The task is not simple as done.
But, certainly more hassle free and little paper work compared to
getting a citizenship in other European countries.

India does not support Dual citizenship and the moment you become a
Portuguese citizen you have to surrender your Indian passport. Some of
the new Portuguese citizens have now applied for Overseas Indian
Citizen card (OCI) and are traveling to India.
As an OCI card holder one cannot buy agricultural property but some
issues over visa issues still persist.
Rodrigues visit was supported and sponsored by Walter Dias Executive
Director of Unique Choice Doha.
Antonio Joao Vaz was instrumental in doing the ground work for
Rodrigues visit to Qatat.