Re: [Goanet] Section 377/reply to Selma
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Dear Selma(or the person holding her ransom!), Should single mothers also be denied this right to raise children? They too do not fall in the category of a two-gender family. Is the government then going to legislate and control fundamental biological processes? Why don't us Indians just invite the Chinese to take us over and save us all this trouble of the democracy experiment? What about divorce then. Once a couple has children, should divorce be banned? Since obviously it is not best for the emotional well being of a child to be brought up in shared/single custody. If a murderer marries a drug dealer, they are allowed to have and raise kids, are we going to deny that right to well intentioned same sex couples. Many of these kids will come from adoption homes(in the case of male homosexuals). Are adoption homes better for a child's emotional well being than two loving parents? Heterosexual couples can have kids and leave them at adoption homes, but homosexuals can't adopt and raise them? Where is the consistency in your argument? What are you actually trying to say? Are you just portraying yourself as a defender of equal rights because it is fashionable or because you truly believe in equality regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation? You strongly object to the word bonkmaro and then to come out with these views that are clearly homophobic(not withstanding your legendary faghag status). There is a difference between being politically correct and being liberal in thought. Regards Sunith Velho P.S. Please do not accuse me of distorting your views. They are clearly mentioned under. Selma writes: However, the right to raise children is another matter. I for one, hope that India does not encourage any such moves. Not because I think homosexuals are incapable of raising good moral human beings, but because I earnestly feel that the emotional well being of a child is best served in a two-gender family. ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
[Goanet] Section 377/reply to Selma Sunil
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Aristo xaristo at gmail.com Mon Sep 25 22:05:59 PDT 2006 Now that we've stopped with the Stuffing of Atheism in front of certain faces, its now time for Stuffing homosexualty! Of course, Cecil will soon remind us that this is GoaNet and not GayNet. Dear Aristo, GayNet notwithstanding, many on this list might be wondering why I am such a vocal proponent of gay rights and same-sex marriage on conservative GoaNet. It probably relates to the ability to 'come out' with a revelation which goes againt conventional attitudes and thinking. In my case, it was the realization that atheism was a valid world view and Humanism a morally ethical philosophy which did not rely on any supernatural powers to make it a valid choice. But it was also due to a message (below) that I had heard before but really didn't impress me until I had to make that difficult choice between the comfort of the immediate and extended social structure I had developed and the internal disconnect I felt between my rational knowledge and irrational beliefs. Having grown up in Goa, studying Science in Britto's, Botany and Zoology in Xavier's, the proper teaching of evolution was conveniently glossed over at these Jesuit institutions. Veterinary studies in Bombay were more specific to existing species and although the common anatomical and physiological features were apparent, I continued my belief that humanity was created specifically to hold dominion over the rest. Graduate studies in Canada delved more into the origins of life and the common underpinnings we have with all life in general. That was my first major disconnect with religious notions which I effectively compartmentalised for over 20 years. However, further comparative veterinary studies confirmed the biological nature of our behaviour including homosexuality. That notion was confronted head on by the Church position a few years ago when Canada was going through it's legalization of gay rights and same-sex marriage. The Church lost that battle and me. What I couldn't understand is how, in all good faith, so many teachers and spiritual leaders over the years could mislead their wards to think that the word of God was the last word on social issues which have been refuted by scientific investigation. I decided that I would not stand by idly if there was a valid fight to be won. The message I alluded to earlier was to empower others, specially minorities, that they have a voice and if they use it, others will eventually listen. I think it was about speaking up for others They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came... For the record, I am happily(?) married to a beautiful and intelligent woman and have two teenage children, a 19y old son and a 15y old daughter, who seem well adjusted. My attention is diverted very easily by an attractive woman but not necessarily by a handsome man, unless he is able to engage me with an intelligent conversation. I will swoon over any gender who can engage my mind rather than my hormones. Kevin Saldanha Mississauga, ON. mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
Re: [Goanet] Section 377/reply to Selma Sunil
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Now that we've stopped with the Stuffing of Atheism in front of certain faces, its now time for Stuffing homosexualty! Of course, Cecil will soon remind us that this is GoaNet and not GayNet. Anyways, I just wanted to add some perspective from the cause of homosexuality - Nature or Nurture? Whether they are indeed freaks as Selma puts it. Wikipedia sums it up best: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality Nature versus nurture Considerable debate exists over whether predominantly biological or psychological factors produce sexual orientation in humans. Candidate factors include genes and the exposure of fetuses to certain hormones (or lack thereof). Historically, Freud and many others psychologists, particularly in psychoanalytic or developmental traditions, speculated that formative childhood experiences helped produce sexual orientation; as an example Freud believed that all human teenagers are predominantly homosexual and transition to heterosexuality in adulthood; those who remain homosexual as adults he believed had experienced some traumatic event that arrested their sexual development; however, he did believe all adults, even those who had healthy sexual development still retained latent homosexuality to varying degrees. Although there is currently no general medical consensus, one theory is that biological factors — whether genetic or acquired in utero — produce characteristically homosexual childhood experiences (such as atypical gender behaviour experiences), or at the least significantly contribute to them. Evidence for both Nature as well as Nurture theories exist: In nature, we see the (very limited) instances of Homsexuality in the animal kingdom in Dolphins, Penguins, Sheep and Bulls. Higher instances of homosexuality in (one of the) twins or younger brothers support the genetic/hormonal theory. From Nurture point of view, we see higher instances of homosexuality which manifests due to situational conditions like prisons, military and priesthood. In conclusion, biological, psychological OR social factors (or a combination) shape sexual identity, the mix being different in each case. Also, does the figure of 4% of the population being homosexual qualify homosexuals to be considered as freaks? Are the 2.5% of Indian Christians freaks? (just trying to give some perspective of what 4% means) This debate reminds me of a short film made by an amateur Goan filmmaker Rishad D'Cruz, (who happens to be a very close friend) which was shone during the IFFI 2004 called The Filmmaker. It had to do with Nature Nurture with regards to Homosexuality and Violence. The movie was made for a competition with the theme of Nature and Violence where it won a Special Jury award. Anyone seen it? http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/955610.cms And finally, a small note to Sunil Monteiro, although the above is just a discussion with no promise of any action from my end, its intention is to change the MINDSET of a small percentage of the open minded goans among the 7000 goanetters. The media is a very useful tool to alter perceptions and mindsets. For example, I believe that Hollywood had an affirmative action obligation to feature at least one African American in every production, and in many cases it potrayed a Black (I'm not a stickler for political correctness) saving a White, and somewhere in Central America, a bigoted couch potato was sub-consciously affected. Of course, there's the negative side to this, like the demagoguery exhibited by CNN and a couple of goanetters ;-). Something of this kind should be done here too, to encourage Gay rights. My Brother Nikhil was one such attempt, as was my friends The Filmmaker. Only when mindsets change does change set in. Cheers, Aristo. On 9/24/06, sunil monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ms Selma, Consistency means, apart taking an issue/topic for discussions which is a good source of information to all the we have to continously follow it up until we feel are satisfied that finally we have solved the problem . I do not want the hetrosexual community to do anything on its own , it has to be a combined effort by all those who feel why section 377 be abolished/amended and giving equal rights to same sex in Goa. I was just sharing the idea that discussions/forums, opinions ,arguments, debates are healthy but there has to be an end solution. Take for example GOA DAY celebrations or any other event
[Goanet] Section 377/reply to Selma
* G * O * A * N * E * T C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S * Enjoy your holiday in Goa. Stay at THE GARCA BRANCA from November to May There is no better, value for money, guest house. Confirm your bookings early or miss-out Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. Ms Selma, Consistency means, apart taking an issue/topic for discussions which is a good source of information to all the we have to continously follow it up until we feel are satisfied that finally we have solved the problem . I do not want the hetrosexual community to do anything on its own , it has to be a combined effort by all those who feel why section 377 be abolished/amended and giving equal rights to same sex in Goa. I was just sharing the idea that discussions/forums, opinions ,arguments, debates are healthy but there has to be an end solution. Take for example GOA DAY celebrations or any other event there was an initiator it started and the end result is successful, in the same way this present topic we have been discussing , what is the way forward to have this section amended? How can we succeed the Goal? Who will be at the forefront to initiate this crusade? I have not made any mention of the Gay community being exempt from their battles, all i wanted to know and many would want to know , this topic was raised on the net ,was it just for discussion , exchange of ideas, or finding a solution to the minority community and for that who will lead this struggle? Sunil _ One and only Ash. Find out all about her. Only on MSN Search http://server1.msn.co.in/profile/aishwarya.asp ___ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
