Re: [go-nuts] Licence details of github.com/golang/sync

2020-10-30 Thread 'Dan Kortschak' via golang-nuts 
On Thu, 2020-10-29 at 22:54 -0700, Ian Lance Taylor wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 10:48 PM Denis Cheremisov <
> denis.cheremi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Well, as usual I wrote something in the way, not the real thing.
> > 
> > The case is:
> > 
> > - At my company we are using errgroup from that sync repo in one
> > project,
> >   sync/errgroup in fact mostly.
> > - It proved to be error prone with its context shadowing on
> > errgroup.WithContext
> >   so we took the original and adds context in the group itself via
> > eg.Ctx() + 
> >   a couple of additional functionality.
> > 
> > Yesterday our attorney wrote us "we can't use sync because of this
> > patents
> > note" as it works like a virus, and can't use our modification too
> > for the same
> > reason. It turned out the stdlib is under the same note too, so we
> > will have
> > fun times :) 
> 
> 
> That makes no sense to me.  And I'm not aware of any other company
> that sees any problem at all with the patent grant.
> 
> But I am not a lawyer, and you will have to make your own decisions.
> 
> Ian

Maybe they are worried about this, "This grant does not include claims
that would be infringed only as a consequence of further modification
of this implementation." (that's what it sounds like from the previous
response).

If they are, I think they are misreading it (though I am not a lawyer).


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Re: [go-nuts] Licence details of github.com/golang/sync

2020-10-29 Thread Ian Lance Taylor 
On Thu, Oct 29, 2020, 10:48 PM Denis Cheremisov 
wrote:

> Well, as usual I wrote something in the way, not the real thing.
>
> The case is:
>
> - At my company we are using errgroup from that sync repo in one project,
>   sync/errgroup in fact mostly.
> - It proved to be error prone with its context shadowing on
> errgroup.WithContext
>   so we took the original and adds context in the group itself via
> eg.Ctx() +
>   a couple of additional functionality.
>
> Yesterday our attorney wrote us "we can't use sync because of this patents
> note" as it works like a virus, and can't use our modification too for the
> same
> reason. It turned out the stdlib is under the same note too, so we will
> have
> fun times :)
>


That makes no sense to me.  And I'm not aware of any other company that
sees any problem at all with the patent grant.

But I am not a lawyer, and you will have to make your own decisions.

Ian


четверг, 29 октября 2020 г. в 20:09:59 UTC+3, ohir:
>
>> Dnia 2020-10-29, o godz. 06:52:17
>> Denis Cheremisov  napisał(a):
>>
>> > Hi!
>> > At my job we found these additional patents
>> > limitatations https://github.com/golang/sync/blob/master/PATENTS
>> > They makes us impossible to use errgroup (which is, to say, turned to
>> have
>> > pretty poor choice of WithContext signature, so our one is different),
>> so
>> > we have our custom implementation of it with additonal functionality
>> > (errors collector, concurrency limitation), but it is derived from the
>> > original implementation.
>>
>> This list is not a proper venue to gather 'common-sense' legal advice, as
>> such
>> advice will likely be at odds with your real legal standing regarding
>> your software
>> under each next jurisdiction.
>>
>> To be clear and a bit assured about your real situation you should hire a
>> good attorneys
>> in each country of interest or hire a top-tier international law agency
>> then make sure to
>> be very frank with them about what you did, what you do, and what you
>> plan to do with
>> your implementation.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> --
>> Wojciech S. Czarnecki
>> << ^oo^ >> OHIR-RIPE
>>
>> P.S. My "Common-sense" advice is this: as whole Go ecosystem is under
>> this grant,
>> if it is stands against your planned deeds, you certainly should abandon
>> Go right now
>> and switch to Java or Swift ASAP. There you'll be covered by Oracle's or
>> Apple's
>> voluminouos license agreements that will make the "very close to" problem
>> disappear, as it will be clearly forbidden ;).
>>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [go-nuts] Licence details of github.com/golang/sync

2020-10-29 Thread Denis Cheremisov 
Well, as usual I wrote something in the way, not the real thing.

The case is:

- At my company we are using errgroup from that sync repo in one project,
  sync/errgroup in fact mostly.
- It proved to be error prone with its context shadowing on 
errgroup.WithContext
  so we took the original and adds context in the group itself via eg.Ctx() 
+ 
  a couple of additional functionality.

Yesterday our attorney wrote us "we can't use sync because of this patents
note" as it works like a virus, and can't use our modification too for the 
same
reason. It turned out the stdlib is under the same note too, so we will have
fun times :) 

четверг, 29 октября 2020 г. в 20:09:59 UTC+3, ohir: 

> Dnia 2020-10-29, o godz. 06:52:17
> Denis Cheremisov  napisał(a):
>
> > Hi!
> > At my job we found these additional patents 
> > limitatations https://github.com/golang/sync/blob/master/PATENTS
> > They makes us impossible to use errgroup (which is, to say, turned to 
> have 
> > pretty poor choice of WithContext signature, so our one is different), 
> so 
> > we have our custom implementation of it with additonal functionality 
> > (errors collector, concurrency limitation), but it is derived from the 
> > original implementation.
>
> This list is not a proper venue to gather 'common-sense' legal advice, as 
> such
> advice will likely be at odds with your real legal standing regarding your 
> software
> under each next jurisdiction.
>
> To be clear and a bit assured about your real situation you should hire a 
> good attorneys
> in each country of interest or hire a top-tier international law agency 
> then make sure to
> be very frank with them about what you did, what you do, and what you plan 
> to do with
> your implementation.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> -- 
> Wojciech S. Czarnecki
> << ^oo^ >> OHIR-RIPE
>
> P.S. My "Common-sense" advice is this: as whole Go ecosystem is under this 
> grant,
> if it is stands against your planned deeds, you certainly should abandon 
> Go right now
> and switch to Java or Swift ASAP. There you'll be covered by Oracle's or 
> Apple's
> voluminouos license agreements that will make the "very close to" problem
> disappear, as it will be clearly forbidden ;).
>

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Re: [go-nuts] Licence details of github.com/golang/sync

2020-10-29 Thread Wojciech S. Czarnecki 
Dnia 2020-10-29, o godz. 06:52:17
Denis Cheremisov  napisał(a):

> Hi!
> At my job we found these additional patents 
> limitatations https://github.com/golang/sync/blob/master/PATENTS
> They makes us impossible to use errgroup (which is, to say, turned to have 
> pretty poor choice of WithContext signature, so our one is different), so 
> we have our custom implementation of it with additonal functionality 
> (errors collector, concurrency limitation), but it is derived from the 
> original implementation.

This list is not a proper venue to gather 'common-sense' legal advice, as such
advice will likely be at odds with your real legal standing regarding your 
software
under each next jurisdiction.

To be clear and a bit assured about your real situation you should hire a good 
attorneys
in each country of interest or hire a top-tier international law agency then 
make sure to
be very frank with them about what you did, what you do, and what you plan to 
do with
your implementation.

Hope this helps,

-- 
Wojciech S. Czarnecki
 << ^oo^ >> OHIR-RIPE

P.S. My "Common-sense" advice is this: as whole Go ecosystem is under this 
grant,
if it is stands against your planned deeds, you certainly should abandon Go 
right now
and switch to Java or Swift ASAP. There you'll be covered by Oracle's or Apple's
voluminouos license agreements that will make the "very close to" problem
disappear, as it will be clearly forbidden ;).

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Re: [go-nuts] Licence details of github.com/golang/sync

2020-10-29 Thread Ian Lance Taylor 
On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 6:53 AM Denis Cheremisov
 wrote:
>
> Hi!
> At my job we found these additional patents limitatations 
> https://github.com/golang/sync/blob/master/PATENTS
> They makes us impossible to use errgroup (which is, to say, turned to have 
> pretty poor choice of WithContext signature, so our one is different), so we 
> have our custom implementation of it with additonal functionality (errors 
> collector, concurrency limitation), but it is derived from the original 
> implementation.
>
> I guess the repository should be called "github.com/google/sync" after that. 
> Anyway, our product's proprietary licence makes it impossible to use our 
> derived implementation. Is there a way to overcome this somehow? The problem 
> is my own implementation would be really close to this and thus prone to a 
> sue.

I don't understand how that patent grant could make it impossible for
you to use your derived implementation.  Could you clarify that?

As Axel pointed out, exactly the same patent grant is provided for Go
itself.  It was added soon after Go was released
(https://groups.google.com/d/msg/golang-nuts/j4gc6rIs0bc/gTuxjO3qgIMJ,
https://golang.org/cl/194066, https://golang.org/cl/3103042).  I can't
find the messages any more, but my recollection is that it was added
at the specific request of the maintainers of the Fedora GNU/Linux
distro.

Ian

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Re: [go-nuts] Licence details of github.com/golang/sync

2020-10-29 Thread 'Axel Wagner' via golang-nuts 
Disclaimer: IANAL.

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 2:53 PM Denis Cheremisov 
wrote:

> At my job we found these additional patents limitatations
> https://github.com/golang/sync/blob/master/PATENTS
> They makes us impossible to use errgroup (which is, to say, turned to have
> pretty poor choice of WithContext signature, so our one is different),
>

Are you aware that the same patent grant also applies to Go itself?
https://github.com/golang/go/blob/master/PATENTS
I don't understand why you think this patent grant would prevent you from
using Go or golang.org/x/sync - in fact, I'd argue that you'd probably have
more problems using it *without* it, as you might be infringing on patents
unintentionally then. Really, the only situation I can imagine this being a
problem, is if you intend to sue Google over violating your patents by
implementing Go, while continuing to benefit from that implementation (note
that both the grant and the exceptions are specific to the Go
implementation). Which… Well, TBH, my sympathies for your case would be
fairly limited.

I guess the repository should be called "github.com/google/sync" after that.
>

It has been well established that Google is the copyright and trademark
holder for Go. See also this fairly extensive post by Ian on this list:
https://groups.google.com/g/golang-nuts/c/6dKNSN0M_kg/m/EUzcym2FBAAJ

Anyway, our product's proprietary licence makes it impossible to use our
> derived implementation. Is there a way to overcome this somehow? The
> problem is my own implementation would be really close to this and thus
> prone to a sue.
>
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> 
> .
>

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[go-nuts] Licence details of github.com/golang/sync

2020-10-29 Thread Denis Cheremisov 
Hi!
At my job we found these additional patents 
limitatations https://github.com/golang/sync/blob/master/PATENTS
They makes us impossible to use errgroup (which is, to say, turned to have 
pretty poor choice of WithContext signature, so our one is different), so 
we have our custom implementation of it with additonal functionality 
(errors collector, concurrency limitation), but it is derived from the 
original implementation.

I guess the repository should be called "github.com/google/sync" after 
that. Anyway, our product's proprietary licence makes it impossible to use 
our derived implementation. Is there a way to overcome this somehow? The 
problem is my own implementation would be really close to this and thus 
prone to a sue.

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