[go-nuts] Re: New edition of the Go Programming Language comming soon ?

[tmack8080]

Page XV:
"We assume that you have programmed in one or more languages, whether 
compiled like C, C++, and Java, or interpreted like Python, Ruby, and 
JavaScript, so we won't spell out everything as if for a total beginner."

On Monday, March 14, 2022 at 12:11:34 PM UTC-4 r...@rwx.gg wrote:

> As an educator and mentor I've had very negative feedback about that book 
> from dozens, from 12 to 50 years old. I preordered 25 when it came out and 
> regret ever having anyone start Go with it. One brilliant kid (who went on 
> to teach himself Assembly and C) nearly threw it at me. To date, I have 
> been unable to solidly recommend any book for beginners. This lack of 
> *good* beginner instruction remains one of the great flaws of Go in 
> general. I'm asked daily what to buy and have nothing to tell them. I 
> bought "Mastering Go" recently and it contains "generics" as proposed from 
> 2019 (I should have known since Packt published it). I know the authors are 
> capable, good people, but these books just do not hit the mark. It is one 
> of the *only* areas where I can confidently say Rust does a better job. 
> Their documentation team is amazing.
>
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 6:22:47 AM UTC-5 christoph...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Go friends, 
>>
>> is there a new edition of the "Go Programming Language" book to be 
>> published soon ? 
>> It is quite old now and there have been a few changes to Go since then. 
>> Go.mod and generics. I was considering buying it, but if a new edition 
>> comes out in a few months, it would be wasted money. 
>>
>

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: New edition of the Go Programming Language comming soon ?

[Rob Muhlestein]

Thank you very much for this reference. This looks exactly like what I was 
looking for. I'm always a fan of getting behind what is out there instead 
of making yet another of the thing. I've purchased a copy and so far can 
clearly get behind so much of the approach, especially not requiring 
anything but Go playground to use (even though we learn Linux terminal 
thoroughly in my Boosts before coding and learning `go mod` and `go work` 
are really essential these days). If the book continues to be consistent 
with my brief sampling of it I will be actively promoting it to everyone on 
my live streams and potentially teaching from it directly for the Go 
programming portion of the upcoming 2022 Beginner Boost.

Thanks again,
On Wednesday, March 16, 2022 at 4:57:36 AM UTC-4 rog wrote:

> On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 at 04:58, Rob Muhlestein  wrote:
>
>> The essential issue is that there are a number of resources for people 
>> "with prior programming experience" and literally none for people learning 
>> Go as a first language.
>>
>
> It does have significant omissions (all programs in the book can execute 
> in the Go Playground), but Get Programming With Go 
>  is definitely 
> oriented towards first-time programmers. I tried a newbie programmer friend 
> on it recently who seemed to find it very clear.
>
> Disclaimer: I'm a co-author of the above book.
>
>   cheers,
> rog.
>

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: New edition of the Go Programming Language comming soon ?

[roger peppe]

On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 at 04:58, Rob Muhlestein  wrote:

> The essential issue is that there are a number of resources for people
> "with prior programming experience" and literally none for people learning
> Go as a first language.
>

It does have significant omissions (all programs in the book can execute in
the Go Playground), but Get Programming With Go
 is definitely
oriented towards first-time programmers. I tried a newbie programmer friend
on it recently who seemed to find it very clear.

Disclaimer: I'm a co-author of the above book.

  cheers,
rog.

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: New edition of the Go Programming Language comming soon ?

[David Karr]

There is nothing new here. Every programming language, framework, and tool
has had the same problem.  Quality documentation and training is often the
hardest thing to produce, and is often deemphasized in budgets.  It's also
part of the last 10% of doing something that usually takes 90% of the time.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 9:58 PM Rob Muhlestein  wrote:

> The essential issue is that there are a number of resources for people
> "with prior programming experience" and literally none for people learning
> Go as a first language. I find this to be very unfortunate because so much
> of Go promotes solid programming practices that could significantly impact
> beginners for the rest of their coding lives (goroutines instead of
> promises, for example). Instead, the community seems content with simply
> suggesting beginners "learn another language first" and I've accepted that.
> I just find it a real loss of an excellent opportunity.
>
> The rest of this is just me blabbing on about helping beginners. 
>
> And I'm sorry, that book is anything but clear. In my experience, the
> people who say such things also say that K C is "clear." It's a matter of
> opinion and audience, and if you are a Ph.D in computer science with C
> coding under your belt, hell yeah, it's *very* clear. I just work with
> beginners with no CS experience a lot and they balk at the irrelevant
> examples, unnecessary bombastic voice, and excessive assumptions. I'm
> sincerely glad some do find it valuable.
>
> By the way, why doesn't our community promote more top-of-the-line, free
> resources over paid books that become immediately out of date? With all the
> money being dumped into "universities" and "free training" of late from
> different corporations facing the doubt of good IT talent I want to believe
> a dedicated team focused specifically on helping beginners adopt Go is a
> possibility --- especially given the critical dependency on Go in all of
> cloud native computing. Being able to read Go source (minimally) should be
> mandatory learning for any infrastructure engineer these days. I've solved
> so many problems simply from reading the K8S or Helm source rather than the
> docs.
>
> I get the impression so many are so busy doing amazing things *with* Go
> that there is very little energy left to do things to help others start,
> and by others I don't mean those paying for corporate training. I mean
> those capable of learning but with limited means; I mean the AP CS programs
> that are still mandating mastering of single OOP inheritance that
> completely neglect concurrent programming practices; I mean self-taught
> upskillers learning to write their own Kubernetes operators. Go could
> easily displace Java as the best AP CS language if more attention were
> given to these considerations.
>
> The Tour of Go is only about 60% finished according to the project
> milestones in the source of the project. And who thought throwing bitwise
> operators in the first chapter (or so) was a good idea?
>
> It just seems like people are content letting beginners fend for
> themselves, which is fine for most, but not for the vast majority of people
> for whom Go is supposedly created. This is the reason I regularly receive
> feedback about Go from the many I've helped who say, "Go just isn't
> beginner friendly" and I'm tired of them saying that "Rust is more
> welcoming" (which is just so untrue).
>
> I know I'm droning on, but someone has to bring this up. Go *is* for
> beginners. We just need help convince people, and frankly that starts with
> being able to make a simple, solid book/resource recommendation for
> beginners. There's just nothing out there. I've read 'em all. There are
> literally no books that cover even 1.17 for beginners. (Modules were one of
> the worst things to happen to beginners and we are finally getting on with
> a simpler future.) With Go 1.18 we have a real opportunity to correct this.
>
> For the record, I'm slowly putting together enough material to
> crowd-source a beginner Go 1.18 book and have probably a few dozen people
> interested in helping, but like so many others, I have other stuff I'm
> first required to focus on. Look forward to anything I can do to help.
>
> Thank you.
>
> ---
> Rob Muhlestein
> r...@rwx.gg
> https://twitch.tv/rwxrob
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> On Monday, March 14th, 2022 at 1:06 PM, Steve Mynott <
> steve.myn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My experience with this book has been different. I thought it was
> >
> > superb -- a masterpiece of clarity.
> >
> > I don't think it's intended for absolute beginners to programming but
> >
> > it's great for people with prior programming experience.
> >
> > It seems to me unlikely there isn't a suitable absolute beginners book
> >
> > available from publishers such as Manning, O'Reilly and No Starch
> >
> > Press.
> >
> > S
> >
> > On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 at 16:09, Rob Muhlestein r...@rwx.gg wrote:
> >
> > > As an educator and mentor I've 

Re: [go-nuts] Re: New edition of the Go Programming Language comming soon ?

[Amnon BC]

Great post, Rob!
CS people generally write books for people like themselves and find it hard
to
put themselves in the position of someone without a CS degree, learning
their first programming language.
A lot of people are aware of the lack of good beginner material, but few
people have the experience
in teaching beginners needed to write it. So great that you are taking
steps to rectify this.
Best of luck with the book! I will certainly be ordering a copy when it
comes out.




On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 4:59 AM Rob Muhlestein  wrote:

> The essential issue is that there are a number of resources for people
> "with prior programming experience" and literally none for people learning
> Go as a first language. I find this to be very unfortunate because so much
> of Go promotes solid programming practices that could significantly impact
> beginners for the rest of their coding lives (goroutines instead of
> promises, for example). Instead, the community seems content with simply
> suggesting beginners "learn another language first" and I've accepted that.
> I just find it a real loss of an excellent opportunity.
>
> The rest of this is just me blabbing on about helping beginners. 
>
> And I'm sorry, that book is anything but clear. In my experience, the
> people who say such things also say that K C is "clear." It's a matter of
> opinion and audience, and if you are a Ph.D in computer science with C
> coding under your belt, hell yeah, it's *very* clear. I just work with
> beginners with no CS experience a lot and they balk at the irrelevant
> examples, unnecessary bombastic voice, and excessive assumptions. I'm
> sincerely glad some do find it valuable.
>
> By the way, why doesn't our community promote more top-of-the-line, free
> resources over paid books that become immediately out of date? With all the
> money being dumped into "universities" and "free training" of late from
> different corporations facing the doubt of good IT talent I want to believe
> a dedicated team focused specifically on helping beginners adopt Go is a
> possibility --- especially given the critical dependency on Go in all of
> cloud native computing. Being able to read Go source (minimally) should be
> mandatory learning for any infrastructure engineer these days. I've solved
> so many problems simply from reading the K8S or Helm source rather than the
> docs.
>
> I get the impression so many are so busy doing amazing things *with* Go
> that there is very little energy left to do things to help others start,
> and by others I don't mean those paying for corporate training. I mean
> those capable of learning but with limited means; I mean the AP CS programs
> that are still mandating mastering of single OOP inheritance that
> completely neglect concurrent programming practices; I mean self-taught
> upskillers learning to write their own Kubernetes operators. Go could
> easily displace Java as the best AP CS language if more attention were
> given to these considerations.
>
> The Tour of Go is only about 60% finished according to the project
> milestones in the source of the project. And who thought throwing bitwise
> operators in the first chapter (or so) was a good idea?
>
> It just seems like people are content letting beginners fend for
> themselves, which is fine for most, but not for the vast majority of people
> for whom Go is supposedly created. This is the reason I regularly receive
> feedback about Go from the many I've helped who say, "Go just isn't
> beginner friendly" and I'm tired of them saying that "Rust is more
> welcoming" (which is just so untrue).
>
> I know I'm droning on, but someone has to bring this up. Go *is* for
> beginners. We just need help convince people, and frankly that starts with
> being able to make a simple, solid book/resource recommendation for
> beginners. There's just nothing out there. I've read 'em all. There are
> literally no books that cover even 1.17 for beginners. (Modules were one of
> the worst things to happen to beginners and we are finally getting on with
> a simpler future.) With Go 1.18 we have a real opportunity to correct this.
>
> For the record, I'm slowly putting together enough material to
> crowd-source a beginner Go 1.18 book and have probably a few dozen people
> interested in helping, but like so many others, I have other stuff I'm
> first required to focus on. Look forward to anything I can do to help.
>
> Thank you.
>
> ---
> Rob Muhlestein
> r...@rwx.gg
> https://twitch.tv/rwxrob
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> On Monday, March 14th, 2022 at 1:06 PM, Steve Mynott <
> steve.myn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My experience with this book has been different. I thought it was
> >
> > superb -- a masterpiece of clarity.
> >
> > I don't think it's intended for absolute beginners to programming but
> >
> > it's great for people with prior programming experience.
> >
> > It seems to me unlikely there isn't a suitable absolute beginners book
> >
> > available from 

Re: [go-nuts] Re: New edition of the Go Programming Language comming soon ?

[Rob Muhlestein]

The essential issue is that there are a number of resources for people "with 
prior programming experience" and literally none for people learning Go as a 
first language. I find this to be very unfortunate because so much of Go 
promotes solid programming practices that could significantly impact beginners 
for the rest of their coding lives (goroutines instead of promises, for 
example). Instead, the community seems content with simply suggesting beginners 
"learn another language first" and I've accepted that. I just find it a real 
loss of an excellent opportunity.

The rest of this is just me blabbing on about helping beginners. 

And I'm sorry, that book is anything but clear. In my experience, the people 
who say such things also say that K C is "clear." It's a matter of opinion 
and audience, and if you are a Ph.D in computer science with C coding under 
your belt, hell yeah, it's *very* clear. I just work with beginners with no CS 
experience a lot and they balk at the irrelevant examples, unnecessary 
bombastic voice, and excessive assumptions. I'm sincerely glad some do find it 
valuable.

By the way, why doesn't our community promote more top-of-the-line, free 
resources over paid books that become immediately out of date? With all the 
money being dumped into "universities" and "free training" of late from 
different corporations facing the doubt of good IT talent I want to believe a 
dedicated team focused specifically on helping beginners adopt Go is a 
possibility --- especially given the critical dependency on Go in all of cloud 
native computing. Being able to read Go source (minimally) should be mandatory 
learning for any infrastructure engineer these days. I've solved so many 
problems simply from reading the K8S or Helm source rather than the docs.

I get the impression so many are so busy doing amazing things *with* Go that 
there is very little energy left to do things to help others start, and by 
others I don't mean those paying for corporate training. I mean those capable 
of learning but with limited means; I mean the AP CS programs that are still 
mandating mastering of single OOP inheritance that completely neglect 
concurrent programming practices; I mean self-taught upskillers learning to 
write their own Kubernetes operators. Go could easily displace Java as the best 
AP CS language if more attention were given to these considerations.

The Tour of Go is only about 60% finished according to the project milestones 
in the source of the project. And who thought throwing bitwise operators in the 
first chapter (or so) was a good idea?

It just seems like people are content letting beginners fend for themselves, 
which is fine for most, but not for the vast majority of people for whom Go is 
supposedly created. This is the reason I regularly receive feedback about Go 
from the many I've helped who say, "Go just isn't beginner friendly" and I'm 
tired of them saying that "Rust is more welcoming" (which is just so untrue).

I know I'm droning on, but someone has to bring this up. Go *is* for beginners. 
We just need help convince people, and frankly that starts with being able to 
make a simple, solid book/resource recommendation for beginners. There's just 
nothing out there. I've read 'em all. There are literally no books that cover 
even 1.17 for beginners. (Modules were one of the worst things to happen to 
beginners and we are finally getting on with a simpler future.) With Go 1.18 we 
have a real opportunity to correct this.

For the record, I'm slowly putting together enough material to crowd-source a 
beginner Go 1.18 book and have probably a few dozen people interested in 
helping, but like so many others, I have other stuff I'm first required to 
focus on. Look forward to anything I can do to help.

Thank you.

---
Rob Muhlestein
r...@rwx.gg
https://twitch.tv/rwxrob

--- Original Message ---

On Monday, March 14th, 2022 at 1:06 PM, Steve Mynott  
wrote:

> My experience with this book has been different. I thought it was
>
> superb -- a masterpiece of clarity.
>
> I don't think it's intended for absolute beginners to programming but
>
> it's great for people with prior programming experience.
>
> It seems to me unlikely there isn't a suitable absolute beginners book
>
> available from publishers such as Manning, O'Reilly and No Starch
>
> Press.
>
> S
>
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 at 16:09, Rob Muhlestein r...@rwx.gg wrote:
>
> > As an educator and mentor I've had very negative feedback about that book 
> > from dozens, from 12 to 50 years old. I preordered 25 when it came out and 
> > regret ever having anyone start Go with it. One brilliant kid (who went on 
> > to teach himself Assembly and C) nearly threw it at me. To date, I have 
> > been unable to solidly recommend any book for beginners. This lack of good 
> > beginner instruction remains one of the great flaws of Go in general. I'm 
> > asked daily what to buy and have nothing to tell them. I bought 

Re: [go-nuts] Re: New edition of the Go Programming Language comming soon ?

[Steve Mynott]

My experience with this book has been different. I thought it was
superb -- a masterpiece of clarity.

I don't think it's intended for absolute beginners to programming but
it's great for people with prior programming experience.

It seems to me unlikely there isn't a suitable absolute beginners book
available from publishers such as Manning, O'Reilly and No Starch
Press.

S


On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 at 16:09, Rob Muhlestein  wrote:
>
> As an educator and mentor I've had very negative feedback about that book 
> from dozens, from 12 to 50 years old. I preordered 25 when it came out and 
> regret ever having anyone start Go with it. One brilliant kid (who went on to 
> teach himself Assembly and C) nearly threw it at me. To date, I have been 
> unable to solidly recommend any book for beginners. This lack of *good* 
> beginner instruction remains one of the great flaws of Go in general. I'm 
> asked daily what to buy and have nothing to tell them. I bought "Mastering 
> Go" recently and it contains "generics" as proposed from 2019 (I should have 
> known since Packt published it). I know the authors are capable, good people, 
> but these books just do not hit the mark. It is one of the *only* areas where 
> I can confidently say Rust does a better job. Their documentation team is 
> amazing.
>
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 6:22:47 AM UTC-5 christoph...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Hello Go friends,
>>
>> is there a new edition of the "Go Programming Language" book to be published 
>> soon ?
>> It is quite old now and there have been a few changes to Go since then. 
>> Go.mod and generics. I was considering buying it, but if a new edition comes 
>> out in a few months, it would be wasted money.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "golang-nuts" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
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-- 
Steve Mynott 
rsa3072/629FBB91565E591955B5876A79CEFAA4450EBD50

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Re: [go-nuts] Re: New edition of the Go Programming Language comming soon ?

[Tej Singh Rana]

Then which book would you recommend? Which is up to date.

On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 9:41 PM Rob Muhlestein  wrote:

> As an educator and mentor I've had very negative feedback about that book
> from dozens, from 12 to 50 years old. I preordered 25 when it came out and
> regret ever having anyone start Go with it. One brilliant kid (who went on
> to teach himself Assembly and C) nearly threw it at me. To date, I have
> been unable to solidly recommend any book for beginners. This lack of
> *good* beginner instruction remains one of the great flaws of Go in
> general. I'm asked daily what to buy and have nothing to tell them. I
> bought "Mastering Go" recently and it contains "generics" as proposed from
> 2019 (I should have known since Packt published it). I know the authors are
> capable, good people, but these books just do not hit the mark. It is one
> of the *only* areas where I can confidently say Rust does a better job.
> Their documentation team is amazing.
>
> On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 6:22:47 AM UTC-5 christoph...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Go friends,
>>
>> is there a new edition of the "Go Programming Language" book to be
>> published soon ?
>> It is quite old now and there have been a few changes to Go since then.
>> Go.mod and generics. I was considering buying it, but if a new edition
>> comes out in a few months, it would be wasted money.
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "golang-nuts" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to golang-nuts+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/golang-nuts/35da213c-0ff6-4677-b800-f4aa79ea0130n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 
Regards,
Tej Singh Rana

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[go-nuts] Re: New edition of the Go Programming Language comming soon ?

[Rob Muhlestein]

As an educator and mentor I've had very negative feedback about that book 
from dozens, from 12 to 50 years old. I preordered 25 when it came out and 
regret ever having anyone start Go with it. One brilliant kid (who went on 
to teach himself Assembly and C) nearly threw it at me. To date, I have 
been unable to solidly recommend any book for beginners. This lack of 
*good* beginner instruction remains one of the great flaws of Go in 
general. I'm asked daily what to buy and have nothing to tell them. I 
bought "Mastering Go" recently and it contains "generics" as proposed from 
2019 (I should have known since Packt published it). I know the authors are 
capable, good people, but these books just do not hit the mark. It is one 
of the *only* areas where I can confidently say Rust does a better job. 
Their documentation team is amazing.

On Sunday, February 13, 2022 at 6:22:47 AM UTC-5 christoph...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hello Go friends, 
>
> is there a new edition of the "Go Programming Language" book to be 
> published soon ? 
> It is quite old now and there have been a few changes to Go since then. 
> Go.mod and generics. I was considering buying it, but if a new edition 
> comes out in a few months, it would be wasted money. 
>

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[go-nuts] Re: New edition of the Go Programming Language comming soon ?

[Amnon]

I have not heard of any plans to bring out a new edition of the book.
But the original 2015 edition is timeless, as it deals with the fundamentals
of the language, of why things are the way they are. Yes they have been some
additions to the language since 2015, but nothing which invalidates 
anything in the book.
All the examples still run and will continue to run under future versions 
of Go.
I would say: just buy it. Your money will not be wasted.

On Sunday, 13 February 2022 at 11:22:47 UTC christoph...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello Go friends, 
>
> is there a new edition of the "Go Programming Language" book to be 
> published soon ? 
> It is quite old now and there have been a few changes to Go since then. 
> Go.mod and generics. I was considering buying it, but if a new edition 
> comes out in a few months, it would be wasted money. 
>

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