Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[lofid...@gmail.com]

   
   - I'll try to make an example of simple MicroUI, actually I already plan 
   this and the project is already there on Github ;-) 
   https://github.com/gwtboot/microfrontends-example
   - Debugging: It is as fast as debugging JS webapp. You just debug on 
   browser, see: https://bit.ly/WebJavaStory -- Debugging
   - Hiring devs: OK, I don't know but in my experience you just need a 
   Java dev who wants to learn new framework. If you are not doing "crazy 
   things" in browser, instead just doing business app development, should be 
   just fine to have Java devs with the "energy" to learn a new framework. 
   Following knowhow is a must:
  - Java, Maven / Gradle (please don't use Ant as in the documentation 
  @GWT Project, that's old)
  - Go for this Intro Padlet: https://padlet.com/lofidewanto/gwtintro
  
But this was my experience, maybe other could share their stories?

Thanks,
Lofi
alex...@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 5. März 2021 um 02:38:51 UTC+1:

> and have other reasons
> 1. debugging  speed reason
> 2. Is it possible to hire someone who is willing to use GWT? 
>
> lofid...@gmail.com  于2021年3月4日周四 下午6:46写道：
>
>> ... and in the beginning everything is small and fast but you'll see the 
>> same problem (also with pure JS or any other technologies) if you build one 
>> huge app...
>>
>
>> This is similar to the backend problem... Monolith vs. Microservice --> 
>> Monolith UI vs. Micro UI...
>>
>> lofid...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. März 2021 um 11:39:14 UTC+1:
>>
>>> Thanks for the information!
>>>
>>> Why don't you just separate the project (Maven, etc) in smaller projects 
>>> and integrate them just in the HTML files DOM / ScriptInjector? 
>>>
>>> So in general you could build many Micro UIs (many JS files) in GWT and 
>>> integrate them in one HTML DOM or put them together through ScriptInjector.
>>>
>>> alex...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. März 2021 um 02:45:38 UTC+1:
>>>
 In the past years, My company build a larget HIS frontend platform 
 based GWT ,  The large means: lot of module,  code by java , output to 
 javascript seems beautify
 But, when the application more bigger, the compiler package speed more 
 slower;  debug, publish will wait long time...
 Recently, we decied to replace gwt with other pure js frontend(like 
 extjs), in order to slove these problem .






 在2021年2月13日星期六 UTC+8 下午7:59:20 写道：

> > Sharing POJO definitions between client and server is the biggest 
> advantage of GWT for me along with static typing in the frontend. Can't 
> live without these two.
>
> Not needing POJOs in a dynamically typed language (JS), could be 
> considered an advantage, due to less code needing to be written.  
> Although, 
> I personally agree that a static typed language is better, even if it is 
> more code.
>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Zhang Alex]

and have other reasons
1. debugging  speed reason
2. Is it possible to hire someone who is willing to use GWT?

lofid...@gmail.com  于2021年3月4日周四 下午6:46写道：

> ... and in the beginning everything is small and fast but you'll see the
> same problem (also with pure JS or any other technologies) if you build one
> huge app...
>
> This is similar to the backend problem... Monolith vs. Microservice -->
> Monolith UI vs. Micro UI...
>
> lofid...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. März 2021 um 11:39:14 UTC+1:
>
>> Thanks for the information!
>>
>> Why don't you just separate the project (Maven, etc) in smaller projects
>> and integrate them just in the HTML files DOM / ScriptInjector?
>>
>> So in general you could build many Micro UIs (many JS files) in GWT and
>> integrate them in one HTML DOM or put them together through ScriptInjector.
>>
>> alex...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. März 2021 um 02:45:38 UTC+1:
>>
>>> In the past years, My company build a larget HIS frontend platform based
>>> GWT ,  The large means: lot of module,  code by java , output to javascript
>>> seems beautify
>>> But, when the application more bigger, the compiler package speed more
>>> slower;  debug, publish will wait long time...
>>> Recently, we decied to replace gwt with other pure js frontend(like
>>> extjs), in order to slove these problem .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 在2021年2月13日星期六 UTC+8 下午7:59:20 写道：
>>>
 > Sharing POJO definitions between client and server is the biggest
 advantage of GWT for me along with static typing in the frontend. Can't
 live without these two.

 Not needing POJOs in a dynamically typed language (JS), could be
 considered an advantage, due to less code needing to be written.  Although,
 I personally agree that a static typed language is better, even if it is
 more code.

 --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Zhang Alex]

agree.
Cheers.

lofid...@gmail.com  于2021年3月4日周四 下午6:46写道：

> ... and in the beginning everything is small and fast but you'll see the
> same problem (also with pure JS or any other technologies) if you build one
> huge app...
>
> This is similar to the backend problem... Monolith vs. Microservice -->
> Monolith UI vs. Micro UI...
>
> lofid...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. März 2021 um 11:39:14 UTC+1:
>
>> Thanks for the information!
>>
>> Why don't you just separate the project (Maven, etc) in smaller projects
>> and integrate them just in the HTML files DOM / ScriptInjector?
>>
>> So in general you could build many Micro UIs (many JS files) in GWT and
>> integrate them in one HTML DOM or put them together through ScriptInjector.
>>
>> alex...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. März 2021 um 02:45:38 UTC+1:
>>
>>> In the past years, My company build a larget HIS frontend platform based
>>> GWT ,  The large means: lot of module,  code by java , output to javascript
>>> seems beautify
>>> But, when the application more bigger, the compiler package speed more
>>> slower;  debug, publish will wait long time...
>>> Recently, we decied to replace gwt with other pure js frontend(like
>>> extjs), in order to slove these problem .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 在2021年2月13日星期六 UTC+8 下午7:59:20 写道：
>>>
 > Sharing POJO definitions between client and server is the biggest
 advantage of GWT for me along with static typing in the frontend. Can't
 live without these two.

 Not needing POJOs in a dynamically typed language (JS), could be
 considered an advantage, due to less code needing to be written.  Although,
 I personally agree that a static typed language is better, even if it is
 more code.

 --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Zhang Alex]

In fact, We just did it like you're saying, every project composes with a
different maven module.
But , one difference is , the final output material is one xxx.nocache.js .
the sense may cause build speed too slowly.

Could you describe " separate the project (Maven, etc) in smaller projects
and integrate them just in the HTML files DOM / ScriptInjector and build
many Micro UIs (many JS files) in GWT and integrate them in one HTML DOM or
put them together through ScriptInjector" in more detail.

Cheers.

lofid...@gmail.com  于2021年3月4日周四 下午6:39写道：

> Thanks for the information!
>
> Why don't you just separate the project (Maven, etc) in smaller projects
> and integrate them just in the HTML files DOM / ScriptInjector?
>
> So in general you could build many Micro UIs (many JS files) in GWT and
> integrate them in one HTML DOM or put them together through ScriptInjector.
>
> alex...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. März 2021 um 02:45:38 UTC+1:
>
>> In the past years, My company build a larget HIS frontend platform based
>> GWT ,  The large means: lot of module,  code by java , output to javascript
>> seems beautify
>> But, when the application more bigger, the compiler package speed more
>> slower;  debug, publish will wait long time...
>> Recently, we decied to replace gwt with other pure js frontend(like
>> extjs), in order to slove these problem .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 在2021年2月13日星期六 UTC+8 下午7:59:20 写道：
>>
>>> > Sharing POJO definitions between client and server is the biggest
>>> advantage of GWT for me along with static typing in the frontend. Can't
>>> live without these two.
>>>
>>> Not needing POJOs in a dynamically typed language (JS), could be
>>> considered an advantage, due to less code needing to be written.  Although,
>>> I personally agree that a static typed language is better, even if it is
>>> more code.
>>>
>>> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[lofid...@gmail.com]

... and in the beginning everything is small and fast but you'll see the 
same problem (also with pure JS or any other technologies) if you build one 
huge app...

This is similar to the backend problem... Monolith vs. Microservice --> 
Monolith UI vs. Micro UI...

lofid...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. März 2021 um 11:39:14 UTC+1:

> Thanks for the information!
>
> Why don't you just separate the project (Maven, etc) in smaller projects 
> and integrate them just in the HTML files DOM / ScriptInjector? 
>
> So in general you could build many Micro UIs (many JS files) in GWT and 
> integrate them in one HTML DOM or put them together through ScriptInjector.
>
> alex...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. März 2021 um 02:45:38 UTC+1:
>
>> In the past years, My company build a larget HIS frontend platform based 
>> GWT ,  The large means: lot of module,  code by java , output to javascript 
>> seems beautify
>> But, when the application more bigger, the compiler package speed more 
>> slower;  debug, publish will wait long time...
>> Recently, we decied to replace gwt with other pure js frontend(like 
>> extjs), in order to slove these problem .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 在2021年2月13日星期六 UTC+8 下午7:59:20 写道：
>>
>>> > Sharing POJO definitions between client and server is the biggest 
>>> advantage of GWT for me along with static typing in the frontend. Can't 
>>> live without these two.
>>>
>>> Not needing POJOs in a dynamically typed language (JS), could be 
>>> considered an advantage, due to less code needing to be written.  Although, 
>>> I personally agree that a static typed language is better, even if it is 
>>> more code.
>>>
>>>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[lofid...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the information!

Why don't you just separate the project (Maven, etc) in smaller projects 
and integrate them just in the HTML files DOM / ScriptInjector? 

So in general you could build many Micro UIs (many JS files) in GWT and 
integrate them in one HTML DOM or put them together through ScriptInjector.

alex...@gmail.com schrieb am Donnerstag, 4. März 2021 um 02:45:38 UTC+1:

> In the past years, My company build a larget HIS frontend platform based 
> GWT ,  The large means: lot of module,  code by java , output to javascript 
> seems beautify
> But, when the application more bigger, the compiler package speed more 
> slower;  debug, publish will wait long time...
> Recently, we decied to replace gwt with other pure js frontend(like 
> extjs), in order to slove these problem .
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 在2021年2月13日星期六 UTC+8 下午7:59:20 写道：
>
>> > Sharing POJO definitions between client and server is the biggest 
>> advantage of GWT for me along with static typing in the frontend. Can't 
>> live without these two.
>>
>> Not needing POJOs in a dynamically typed language (JS), could be 
>> considered an advantage, due to less code needing to be written.  Although, 
>> I personally agree that a static typed language is better, even if it is 
>> more code.
>>
>>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Zhang Alex]

In the past years, My company build a larget HIS frontend platform based 
GWT ,  The large means: lot of module,  code by java , output to javascript 
seems beautify
But, when the application more bigger, the compiler package speed more 
slower;  debug, publish will wait long time...
Recently, we decied to replace gwt with other pure js frontend(like extjs), 
in order to slove these problem .






在2021年2月13日星期六 UTC+8 下午7:59:20 写道：

> > Sharing POJO definitions between client and server is the biggest 
> advantage of GWT for me along with static typing in the frontend. Can't 
> live without these two.
>
> Not needing POJOs in a dynamically typed language (JS), could be 
> considered an advantage, due to less code needing to be written.  Although, 
> I personally agree that a static typed language is better, even if it is 
> more code.
>
>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Craig Mitchell]

> Sharing POJO definitions between client and server is the biggest 
advantage of GWT for me along with static typing in the frontend. Can't 
live without these two.

Not needing POJOs in a dynamically typed language (JS), could be considered 
an advantage, due to less code needing to be written.  Although, I 
personally agree that a static typed language is better, even if it is more 
code.

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Frank Hossfeld]

A few years ago, a client of mine was thinking about switchung to Vue. So, 
I startet learning Vue. To do so, I search the internet, bought a book, 
install npm, code the examples and so on ... 

Two or three weeks later, my virus scanner (oh yes, I am a Mac user that 
has a virus scannner ... my client requested it) found two trajans which 
were trying to transfer Bitcoins, loaded via npm initiated by my Vue 
development. 

After some research I get to know, that this is a common issue, when using 
npm. Bad Boys trying to conquer a repo, add bad code, deploy it and 
distribute the files via npm. 

I think, you need to get some attention on which file you load. Or, better 
have a clean room where all the js files are located (after an audit ...)

Not sure, if this is a common issue or just due to my carelessly ... but it 
makes my scare.  

pavel@gmail.com schrieb am Sonntag, 24. Januar 2021 um 12:36:40 UTC+1:

> Hi, I see that everyone leaves 2c, so I will do the same.
> But before few words about my background - 6 years with GWT+SmartGWT and 
> now 3 years with VueJS + Vuetify + Typescript.
>
> Definitely, it's much faster to prototype an application using VueJS.
> To manage the state(Vuex) and routes(vue-router) is simple and does not 
> matter what UI components you are going to use.
>
> But, in the long-term development, I see that maven is better than npm - 
> simpler to set up a multimodule project with some common settings and 
> dependencies.
> In JS world npm does not support modules. Yarn workspaces help a bit but 
> it works just for private projects(no way to deploy it to the remote 
> repository).
> Typescript helps to write a code but in 99% of cases, 3rd libraries 
> contain only d.ts files without Javadoc. So, you need to open a website 
> with documentation because it's not clear what the library does.
> Refactoring - forget. Event idea can't properly resolve usages of your 
> methods.
> After webpack to understand where has the error happened it's like a 
> mission impossible. 
> Testing - better to write functional code because to mock classes is not 
> so easy as with mockito or easymock.
> With JS/TS you write code slower because IDE does not resolve or properly 
> resolve what to import, especially if code comes from another module.
>
> So, in long term, I guess GWT provides better and simple development and 
> support.
>
> середа, 23 грудня 2020 р. о 09:16:49 UTC+1 vas...@gmail.com пише:
>
>> Hm the thread was about why not using java for frontend development but 
>> now has general tips for GWT.
>>
>> The padlet is cool. Thanks for assembling it.
>>
>> My 2c.
>>
>> I have used GWT RPC in the past but I was not happy with it. The main 
>> reason was that I couldn't decouple server and client from GWT 
>> dependencies. The closest you could make was with an intermediate project 
>> that hosted the interface files.
>>
>> The issue was solved for me with RestyGWT in the client and Apache 
>> CXF/Rest in the server. Totally separate and the only files I share are my 
>> POJO files.
>>
>> Sharing POJO definitions between client and server is the biggest 
>> advantage of GWT for me along with static typing in the frontend. Can't 
>> live without these two.
>>
>> Maybe there is a way to automatically create or define POJOs that is 
>> language independent so I could completely decouple frontend from backend. 
>> I haven't found such a way that is not completely dynamic and which throws 
>> the IDE search and usage features out of the window.
>>
>> Hope that helps.
>>
>>   Vassilis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 7:27 PM lofid...@gmail.com  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Some tips I could say:
>>>
>>>- GWT is a transpiler / compiler to JavaScript, *so the result only 
>>>runs on Web browser, no server component*. Server container or Web 
>>>server only used for delivering the HTML, JS and CSS. So actually you 
>>> could 
>>>just use the result JS from the file system and make a double click on 
>>> the 
>>>HTML file to open your web app (JS).
>>>- The simplest example I build is the Java Calculator from this 
>>>article: http://bit.ly/WebJavaStory. In this simple Maven example 
>>>you can see how to run the web app, how to code, transpile and unit test 
>>>and also to debug the simple calculator all with web browser.
>>>
>>> I'm using GWT since 2006 / 2007 and until today I haven't seen any 
>>> comparable tools which makes your work very productive, especially as a 
>>> Java developer.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps! Have fun!
>>>
>>> lofid...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 22. Dezember 2020 um 12:40:39 
>>> UTC+1:
>>>
 We also have a Padlet for GWT 😉

 I try to collect all the information about GWT / J2CL on one Black 
 Board: https://padlet.com/lofidewanto/gwtintro

 There are articles, presentations, groups and other information for a 
 modern GWT / J2CL development...

 Hope this helps!

 mysare...@gmail.com schrieb

Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Vassilis Virvilis]

Hm the thread was about why not using java for frontend development but now
has general tips for GWT.

The padlet is cool. Thanks for assembling it.

My 2c.

I have used GWT RPC in the past but I was not happy with it. The main
reason was that I couldn't decouple server and client from GWT
dependencies. The closest you could make was with an intermediate project
that hosted the interface files.

The issue was solved for me with RestyGWT in the client and Apache CXF/Rest
in the server. Totally separate and the only files I share are my POJO
files.

Sharing POJO definitions between client and server is the biggest advantage
of GWT for me along with static typing in the frontend. Can't live without
these two.

Maybe there is a way to automatically create or define POJOs that is
language independent so I could completely decouple frontend from backend.
I haven't found such a way that is not completely dynamic and which throws
the IDE search and usage features out of the window.

Hope that helps.

  Vassilis




On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 7:27 PM lofid...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Some tips I could say:
>
>- GWT is a transpiler / compiler to JavaScript, *so the result only
>runs on Web browser, no server component*. Server container or Web
>server only used for delivering the HTML, JS and CSS. So actually you could
>just use the result JS from the file system and make a double click on the
>HTML file to open your web app (JS).
>- The simplest example I build is the Java Calculator from this
>article: http://bit.ly/WebJavaStory. In this simple Maven example you
>can see how to run the web app, how to code, transpile and unit test and
>also to debug the simple calculator all with web browser.
>
> I'm using GWT since 2006 / 2007 and until today I haven't seen any
> comparable tools which makes your work very productive, especially as a
> Java developer.
>
> Hope this helps! Have fun!
>
> lofid...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 22. Dezember 2020 um 12:40:39
> UTC+1:
>
>> We also have a Padlet for GWT 😉
>>
>> I try to collect all the information about GWT / J2CL on one Black Board:
>> https://padlet.com/lofidewanto/gwtintro
>>
>> There are articles, presentations, groups and other information for a
>> modern GWT / J2CL development...
>>
>> Hope this helps!
>>
>> mysare...@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 19. Dezember 2020 um 01:30:44
>> UTC+1:
>>
>>> Thank you very much. I ll give it a try.
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 4:44:32 PM UTC+1 frank.h...@web.de
>>> wrote:
>>>

 Lofi has some interesting things to look at:
 * GWT Awesome Library List (Gwit a LiLi)
 * there is also a boot starter for gwt, but I do not recall the name.

 Good starting points are:
 *  gwt-maven-archetypes:
 https://github.com/tbroyer/gwt-maven-archetypes
 *  https://github.com/NaluKit/gwt-maven-springboot-archetype if you
 prefer Spring Boot on the server side:
 https://github.com/NaluKit/gwt-maven-springboot-archetype
 * There is also are archetype creator from DominoKit
 * Nalu project generator:
 http://www.mvp4g.org/boot-starter-nalu/BootStarterNalu.html
 (Disclaimer I am the author)

 And a good place to ask your questions:
 https://gitter.im/gwtproject/gwt

 Hope that helps.

 mysare...@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 18. Dezember 2020 um 02:01:24
 UTC+1:

> I am new here, so hello everyone.
> I am very interested in this topic. I have gotten tired of the whole
> javascript ecosystem. I did not know that you could easily have GWT run
> only on the frontend and used jee/spring/whatever on the backend as you
> please. I always thought it was a client-server bundle.
> Is there a tutorial that shows how it can be done?
> How is the compilation speed for code-change/webpage-refresh? I have
> done scala many years, so I understand how frustrating it can be, even
> though scala is amazing.
> Thanks
> On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 11:15:42 PM UTC+2 peter.j...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 1:56 AM lofid...@gmail.com <
>> lofid...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Craig for the info...
>>>
>>> I'm not familiar with React (only Hello World 😉)
>>>
>>> Can you integrate React with these GWT React frameworks? So write
>>> your components in Java and integrate them back into React JavaScript?
>>>
>>>- https://github.com/GWTReact/gwt-react
>>>- https://github.com/react4j/react4j.github.io
>>>
>>> I don't know whether it is possible?
>>>
>>
>> It may be possible in react4j to publish a java component as a react
>> component but not without significant overhead/boilerplate. It is also
>> possible to consume a js react component from within react4j with a 
>> little
>> overhead and we built some of our early apps like this. However, 
>> react4j's
>> sweet spot is 

Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[lofid...@gmail.com]

Some tips I could say:

   - GWT is a transpiler / compiler to JavaScript, *so the result only runs 
   on Web browser, no server component*. Server container or Web server 
   only used for delivering the HTML, JS and CSS. So actually you could just 
   use the result JS from the file system and make a double click on the HTML 
   file to open your web app (JS).
   - The simplest example I build is the Java Calculator from this article: 
   http://bit.ly/WebJavaStory. In this simple Maven example you can see how 
   to run the web app, how to code, transpile and unit test and also to debug 
   the simple calculator all with web browser.

I'm using GWT since 2006 / 2007 and until today I haven't seen any 
comparable tools which makes your work very productive, especially as a 
Java developer.

Hope this helps! Have fun!

lofid...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 22. Dezember 2020 um 12:40:39 UTC+1:

> We also have a Padlet for GWT 😉
>
> I try to collect all the information about GWT / J2CL on one Black Board: 
> https://padlet.com/lofidewanto/gwtintro
>
> There are articles, presentations, groups and other information for a 
> modern GWT / J2CL development...
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> mysare...@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 19. Dezember 2020 um 01:30:44 
> UTC+1:
>
>> Thank you very much. I ll give it a try.
>>
>> On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 4:44:32 PM UTC+1 frank.h...@web.de wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Lofi has some interesting things to look at:  
>>> * GWT Awesome Library List (Gwit a LiLi)
>>> * there is also a boot starter for gwt, but I do not recall the name.
>>>
>>> Good starting points are:
>>> *  gwt-maven-archetypes: https://github.com/tbroyer/gwt-maven-archetypes
>>> *  https://github.com/NaluKit/gwt-maven-springboot-archetype if you 
>>> prefer Spring Boot on the server side: 
>>> https://github.com/NaluKit/gwt-maven-springboot-archetype
>>> * There is also are archetype creator from DominoKit
>>> * Nalu project generator: 
>>> http://www.mvp4g.org/boot-starter-nalu/BootStarterNalu.html (Disclaimer 
>>> I am the author)
>>>
>>> And a good place to ask your questions: https://gitter.im/gwtproject/gwt
>>>
>>> Hope that helps.
>>>
>>> mysare...@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 18. Dezember 2020 um 02:01:24 
>>> UTC+1:
>>>
 I am new here, so hello everyone.
 I am very interested in this topic. I have gotten tired of the whole 
 javascript ecosystem. I did not know that you could easily have GWT run 
 only on the frontend and used jee/spring/whatever on the backend as you 
 please. I always thought it was a client-server bundle.
 Is there a tutorial that shows how it can be done?
 How is the compilation speed for code-change/webpage-refresh? I have 
 done scala many years, so I understand how frustrating it can be, even 
 though scala is amazing.
 Thanks
 On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 11:15:42 PM UTC+2 peter.j...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 1:56 AM lofid...@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Craig for the info...
>>
>> I'm not familiar with React (only Hello World 😉)
>>
>> Can you integrate React with these GWT React frameworks? So write 
>> your components in Java and integrate them back into React JavaScript?
>>
>>- https://github.com/GWTReact/gwt-react
>>- https://github.com/react4j/react4j.github.io
>>
>> I don't know whether it is possible?
>>
>
> It may be possible in react4j to publish a java component as a react 
> component but not without significant overhead/boilerplate. It is also 
> possible to consume a js react component from within react4j with a 
> little 
> overhead and we built some of our early apps like this. However, 
> react4j's 
> sweet spot is when the majority of the application is written in java.
>
> With gwt-react it is much easier to both consume js components and 
> publish java components ... except for the normal constraints of 
> publishing 
> java to js. My guess is that the sweet spot for gwt-react is for 
> applications that combine js components into a java app but I have never 
> used it in anger.
>
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
>
> Peter Donald
>


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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[lofid...@gmail.com]

We also have a Padlet for GWT 😉

I try to collect all the information about GWT / J2CL on one Black Board: 
https://padlet.com/lofidewanto/gwtintro

There are articles, presentations, groups and other information for a 
modern GWT / J2CL development...

Hope this helps!

mysare...@gmail.com schrieb am Samstag, 19. Dezember 2020 um 01:30:44 UTC+1:

> Thank you very much. I ll give it a try.
>
> On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 4:44:32 PM UTC+1 frank.h...@web.de wrote:
>
>>
>> Lofi has some interesting things to look at:  
>> * GWT Awesome Library List (Gwit a LiLi)
>> * there is also a boot starter for gwt, but I do not recall the name.
>>
>> Good starting points are:
>> *  gwt-maven-archetypes: https://github.com/tbroyer/gwt-maven-archetypes
>> *  https://github.com/NaluKit/gwt-maven-springboot-archetype if you 
>> prefer Spring Boot on the server side: 
>> https://github.com/NaluKit/gwt-maven-springboot-archetype
>> * There is also are archetype creator from DominoKit
>> * Nalu project generator: 
>> http://www.mvp4g.org/boot-starter-nalu/BootStarterNalu.html (Disclaimer 
>> I am the author)
>>
>> And a good place to ask your questions: https://gitter.im/gwtproject/gwt
>>
>> Hope that helps.
>>
>> mysare...@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 18. Dezember 2020 um 02:01:24 
>> UTC+1:
>>
>>> I am new here, so hello everyone.
>>> I am very interested in this topic. I have gotten tired of the whole 
>>> javascript ecosystem. I did not know that you could easily have GWT run 
>>> only on the frontend and used jee/spring/whatever on the backend as you 
>>> please. I always thought it was a client-server bundle.
>>> Is there a tutorial that shows how it can be done?
>>> How is the compilation speed for code-change/webpage-refresh? I have 
>>> done scala many years, so I understand how frustrating it can be, even 
>>> though scala is amazing.
>>> Thanks
>>> On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 11:15:42 PM UTC+2 peter.j...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 1:56 AM lofid...@gmail.com  
 wrote:

> Thanks Craig for the info...
>
> I'm not familiar with React (only Hello World 😉)
>
> Can you integrate React with these GWT React frameworks? So write your 
> components in Java and integrate them back into React JavaScript?
>
>- https://github.com/GWTReact/gwt-react
>- https://github.com/react4j/react4j.github.io
>
> I don't know whether it is possible?
>

 It may be possible in react4j to publish a java component as a react 
 component but not without significant overhead/boilerplate. It is also 
 possible to consume a js react component from within react4j with a little 
 overhead and we built some of our early apps like this. However, react4j's 
 sweet spot is when the majority of the application is written in java.

 With gwt-react it is much easier to both consume js components and 
 publish java components ... except for the normal constraints of 
 publishing 
 java to js. My guess is that the sweet spot for gwt-react is for 
 applications that combine js components into a java app but I have never 
 used it in anger.


 -- 
 Cheers,

 Peter Donald

>>>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Woyce Batkins]

Thank you very much. I ll give it a try.

On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 4:44:32 PM UTC+1 frank.h...@web.de wrote:

>
> Lofi has some interesting things to look at:  
> * GWT Awesome Library List (Gwit a LiLi)
> * there is also a boot starter for gwt, but I do not recall the name.
>
> Good starting points are:
> *  gwt-maven-archetypes: https://github.com/tbroyer/gwt-maven-archetypes
> *  https://github.com/NaluKit/gwt-maven-springboot-archetype if you 
> prefer Spring Boot on the server side: 
> https://github.com/NaluKit/gwt-maven-springboot-archetype
> * There is also are archetype creator from DominoKit
> * Nalu project generator: 
> http://www.mvp4g.org/boot-starter-nalu/BootStarterNalu.html (Disclaimer I 
> am the author)
>
> And a good place to ask your questions: https://gitter.im/gwtproject/gwt
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> mysare...@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 18. Dezember 2020 um 02:01:24 
> UTC+1:
>
>> I am new here, so hello everyone.
>> I am very interested in this topic. I have gotten tired of the whole 
>> javascript ecosystem. I did not know that you could easily have GWT run 
>> only on the frontend and used jee/spring/whatever on the backend as you 
>> please. I always thought it was a client-server bundle.
>> Is there a tutorial that shows how it can be done?
>> How is the compilation speed for code-change/webpage-refresh? I have done 
>> scala many years, so I understand how frustrating it can be, even though 
>> scala is amazing.
>> Thanks
>> On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 11:15:42 PM UTC+2 peter.j...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 1:56 AM lofid...@gmail.com  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Craig for the info...

 I'm not familiar with React (only Hello World 😉)

 Can you integrate React with these GWT React frameworks? So write your 
 components in Java and integrate them back into React JavaScript?

- https://github.com/GWTReact/gwt-react
- https://github.com/react4j/react4j.github.io

 I don't know whether it is possible?

>>>
>>> It may be possible in react4j to publish a java component as a react 
>>> component but not without significant overhead/boilerplate. It is also 
>>> possible to consume a js react component from within react4j with a little 
>>> overhead and we built some of our early apps like this. However, react4j's 
>>> sweet spot is when the majority of the application is written in java.
>>>
>>> With gwt-react it is much easier to both consume js components and 
>>> publish java components ... except for the normal constraints of publishing 
>>> java to js. My guess is that the sweet spot for gwt-react is for 
>>> applications that combine js components into a java app but I have never 
>>> used it in anger.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Peter Donald
>>>
>>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Frank Hossfeld]

Lofi has some interesting things to look at:  
* GWT Awesome Library List (Gwit a LiLi)
* there is also a boot starter for gwt, but I do not recall the name.

Good starting points are:
*  gwt-maven-archetypes: https://github.com/tbroyer/gwt-maven-archetypes
*  https://github.com/NaluKit/gwt-maven-springboot-archetype if you prefer 
Spring Boot on the server 
side: https://github.com/NaluKit/gwt-maven-springboot-archetype
* There is also are archetype creator from DominoKit
* Nalu project 
generator: http://www.mvp4g.org/boot-starter-nalu/BootStarterNalu.html 
(Disclaimer I am the author)

And a good place to ask your questions: https://gitter.im/gwtproject/gwt

Hope that helps.

mysare...@gmail.com schrieb am Freitag, 18. Dezember 2020 um 02:01:24 UTC+1:

> I am new here, so hello everyone.
> I am very interested in this topic. I have gotten tired of the whole 
> javascript ecosystem. I did not know that you could easily have GWT run 
> only on the frontend and used jee/spring/whatever on the backend as you 
> please. I always thought it was a client-server bundle.
> Is there a tutorial that shows how it can be done?
> How is the compilation speed for code-change/webpage-refresh? I have done 
> scala many years, so I understand how frustrating it can be, even though 
> scala is amazing.
> Thanks
> On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 11:15:42 PM UTC+2 peter.j...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 1:56 AM lofid...@gmail.com  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Craig for the info...
>>>
>>> I'm not familiar with React (only Hello World 😉)
>>>
>>> Can you integrate React with these GWT React frameworks? So write your 
>>> components in Java and integrate them back into React JavaScript?
>>>
>>>- https://github.com/GWTReact/gwt-react
>>>- https://github.com/react4j/react4j.github.io
>>>
>>> I don't know whether it is possible?
>>>
>>
>> It may be possible in react4j to publish a java component as a react 
>> component but not without significant overhead/boilerplate. It is also 
>> possible to consume a js react component from within react4j with a little 
>> overhead and we built some of our early apps like this. However, react4j's 
>> sweet spot is when the majority of the application is written in java.
>>
>> With gwt-react it is much easier to both consume js components and 
>> publish java components ... except for the normal constraints of publishing 
>> java to js. My guess is that the sweet spot for gwt-react is for 
>> applications that combine js components into a java app but I have never 
>> used it in anger.
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Peter Donald
>>
>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Woyce Batkins]

I am new here, so hello everyone.
I am very interested in this topic. I have gotten tired of the whole 
javascript ecosystem. I did not know that you could easily have GWT run 
only on the frontend and used jee/spring/whatever on the backend as you 
please. I always thought it was a client-server bundle.
Is there a tutorial that shows how it can be done?
How is the compilation speed for code-change/webpage-refresh? I have done 
scala many years, so I understand how frustrating it can be, even though 
scala is amazing.
Thanks
On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 11:15:42 PM UTC+2 peter.j...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 1:56 AM lofid...@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Craig for the info...
>>
>> I'm not familiar with React (only Hello World 😉)
>>
>> Can you integrate React with these GWT React frameworks? So write your 
>> components in Java and integrate them back into React JavaScript?
>>
>>- https://github.com/GWTReact/gwt-react
>>- https://github.com/react4j/react4j.github.io
>>
>> I don't know whether it is possible?
>>
>
> It may be possible in react4j to publish a java component as a react 
> component but not without significant overhead/boilerplate. It is also 
> possible to consume a js react component from within react4j with a little 
> overhead and we built some of our early apps like this. However, react4j's 
> sweet spot is when the majority of the application is written in java.
>
> With gwt-react it is much easier to both consume js components and publish 
> java components ... except for the normal constraints of publishing java to 
> js. My guess is that the sweet spot for gwt-react is for applications that 
> combine js components into a java app but I have never used it in anger.
>
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
>
> Peter Donald
>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Peter Donald]

On Mon, Oct 19, 2020 at 1:56 AM lofid...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Thanks Craig for the info...
>
> I'm not familiar with React (only Hello World 😉)
>
> Can you integrate React with these GWT React frameworks? So write your
> components in Java and integrate them back into React JavaScript?
>
>- https://github.com/GWTReact/gwt-react
>- https://github.com/react4j/react4j.github.io
>
> I don't know whether it is possible?
>

It may be possible in react4j to publish a java component as a react
component but not without significant overhead/boilerplate. It is also
possible to consume a js react component from within react4j with a little
overhead and we built some of our early apps like this. However, react4j's
sweet spot is when the majority of the application is written in java.

With gwt-react it is much easier to both consume js components and publish
java components ... except for the normal constraints of publishing java to
js. My guess is that the sweet spot for gwt-react is for applications that
combine js components into a java app but I have never used it in anger.


-- 
Cheers,

Peter Donald

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[lofid...@gmail.com]

Thanks Craig for the info...

I'm not familiar with React (only Hello World 😉)

Can you integrate React with these GWT React frameworks? So write your 
components in Java and integrate them back into React JavaScript?

   - https://github.com/GWTReact/gwt-react
   - https://github.com/react4j/react4j.github.io
   
I don't know whether it is possible?
Craig Mitchell schrieb am Freitag, 16. Oktober 2020 um 06:16:36 UTC+2:

> > Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web 
> Browser?
>
> Because of React.  Companies are investing in creating reusable React 
> components.  Reacts virtual DOM makes it very difficult to integrate a 
> React component into a GWT app, so you end up just using React, and coding 
> in JS / TS.
>
>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Craig Mitchell]

> Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web 
Browser?

Because of React.  Companies are investing in creating reusable React 
components.  Reacts virtual DOM makes it very difficult to integrate a 
React component into a GWT app, so you end up just using React, and coding 
in JS / TS.

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[lofid...@gmail.com]

Also agree with general opinions in this thread:

   - Actually it is enough to know Java and its ecosystem.
   - The APIs of those UI frameworks + Web browser as a platform (Web APIs) 
   have to be learned by all Java or JavaScript or TypeScript developers 
   anyway.
   - As I saw it by myself, it is actually not hard to learn those APIs, 
   see https://bit.ly/GWTModernExperiences

I also agree with CVs and contractors, like what David said. But last time 
I also didn't think that searching for VueJS developers is also not that 
easy. At the end you just take a developer with JavaScript and maybe 
Angular know how... 😀So, you hope that the developer will learn the VueJS 
fast and this is important, today if you want to learn Spring Boot you have 
enough resources on Internet, also VueJS / Angular / React. But what about 
GWT? A lot of things are old...

So, yes, we need to update *gwtproject-site* and need to create a lot more 
resources to learn GWT / J2CL and of course, new versions, new versions - 
and *always release to Maven Central*... to make the developer experience 
outstanding...

Thanks,
Lofi
lofid...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 6. Oktober 2020 um 19:42:50 UTC+2:

> Hi David,
>
> thanks for your feedback.
>
> Yes, agree with you with all your points... I'm not sure what we could do 
> to show that we are still alive... 😀 At the moment we have following:
>
>- Colin with Vertispan always invites us for an online meetup, here 
>are the results so far: 
>https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbTjCnaZEusVEAPBMtnz9Fw
>   - Here you can ask everything about GWT / J2CL so you have the 
>   access to the GWT / J2CL experts.
>- Some of us try to spread the words by writing articles, etc. and 
>also trying to apply for some conference talks. So far not yet successful 
>with conferences.
>- I try to write a short / simple deck and it could be used to show 
>the advantages of GWT / J2CL to the managers, see 
>https://bit.ly/gwtintropresentation
>- I try to build a "padlet" for Modern GWT / J2CL: 
>https://bit.ly/GWTIntroPadlet
>
> What we could do more:
>
>- Writing a similar web app for Hacker News comparison: 
>https://hnpwa.com -- with GWT / J2CL and chosen UI framework
>- Writing an example web app for Spring Petclinic community: 
>https://github.com/spring-petclinic -- using GWT / J2CL
>- I'll try to open a new repo for libs, see: 
>https://groups.google.com/g/google-web-toolkit/c/_k8ziDHjiLA/m/wzzxvfEyAAAJ
>
> Thanks,
> Lofi
> David Nouls schrieb am Dienstag, 6. Oktober 2020 um 11:21:21 UTC+2:
>
>> Hi Lofi,
>>
>> In my company we are the only group that is working with GWT to develop a 
>> new customer facing application. We have a few products in maintenance mode 
>> that are also using GWT. But most new developments are using Angular.
>>
>> The biggest problems we are facing with using GWT/Java for the client are:
>> - Lack of developers with GUI and GWT skills
>> - Lack of developers who are even willing to learn GWT.  GWT is seen as a 
>> dead technology after Google pushed it out.
>> - Management does not like us to keep on using GWT for the same reason.
>>
>> I managed to convince management to use GWT for our product because we 
>> have a long history of using GWT and we had experience before with the 
>> maintenance burdens of using JavaScript in the past. And we can deliver GUI 
>> changes quite quickly (in many cases much faster than the teams using 
>> Angular).
>>
>> But we do have a big problem finding GWT developers or finding people who 
>> want to learn it. And that is a very big risk for a project.
>>
>> I know that there is active development going on in GWT and J2CL but, you 
>> barely see blog posts about GWT or libraries being released for it.
>> The gwtproject page is mostly stale, the documentation is mostly about 
>> old API's. The more advanced features takes some time to find and learn.
>>
>> If you compare that with the constant release cycle and amount of 
>> info/noise I see related to Angular and other Frameworks then it is 
>> understandable that people have the impression that GWT is dead.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 9:02:18 PM UTC+2 lofid...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to know, what are the *obstacles* for you as *Java 
>>> developers* not using *Java as programming language for writing Web 
>>> browser apps*. Web browser apps are client-side and *not server-side* Web 
>>> apps. 
>>>
>>>- Open discussion at https://bit.ly/HackerNewsTypeScriptJavaGWT
>>>- Article at https://bit.ly/TypeScriptVsJavaGWT
>>>
>>> I would like to know from you... Java developers...
>>>
>>> Thanks, Lofi
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Vegegoku]

I am in the same situation, But this is wrong. and it is not that hard to 
make any java developer work on GWT especially if they claim to know some 
frontend since that implies that they know HTML,CSS, JS which is more 
important than knowing GWT.

On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 3:47:35 PM UTC+3 David Nouls wrote:

> Let me start by stating that I totally agree that the GUI technology used 
> is not really that important. It is after all just cross compiled to the 
> browser platform. So knowledge of the platform is much more important.
>
> In the organisations that I work we mostly with contractors. People are 
> selected based on their prior experience with specific technologies because 
> we need people to be efficient very quickly. You really need to know the 
> frameworks very well because many GWT power features require some 
> experience and a different way of working than what people are used to.
>
> We do check for generic knowledge of programming, design or browser 
> features and most of the time that drives our decision to hire someone much 
> more than a deep GWT specific knowledge. But we often have people that 
> refuse our offer purely because it is GWT. The reason is that they see it 
> as a bad career move to work in a project that uses a framework that they 
> think is dead. I’m not making this up, we had this response many times. And 
> it makes sense from their point of view. Contractors need to stay relevant 
> in the market. CV's are filtered on buzzwords and technologies. I sometimes 
> feel anxious as well since I have many years of GWT knowledge, but I know 
> that all companies are looking for other frameworks and don’t care about 
> the arguments.
>
> In the backend the focus on frameworks is a bit less extreme because they 
> are all based on the same language and the frameworks like spring and EJB 
> are very old and well understood and part of a vibrant community. If you 
> are still depending on Struts and handcrafted SQL/JDBC on the server side 
> then you will probably meet the same resistance to hire people.
> On 6 Oct 2020, 14:21 +0200, Vegegoku , wrote:
>
> I am still don't know why people call the developer like this, GWT 
> developers, Angular developers, React developers...etc.. have we ever 
> called developers like `Spring developers`, `hibernate developers`, `Rest 
> developers` ..etc... I would say we have Java developers and JS developers, 
> developers belong to the ecosystem, not to the framework or the library. 
> GWT, for example, is just a compiler, you need people who know java and the 
> java echo system, not GWT, you can make them GWT familiar way faster than 
> you think, you don't even need them to know this is GWT it is just Java. I 
> have done this with few Java developers I showed them that I am building a 
> web application with java without telling them it was GWT and they were 
> impressed, they even built some small apps with the little information I 
> gave to them. The same goes for JS, if you have a developer who just knows 
> Angular, but does not know JavaScript or can't work with other JS 
> frameworks then that is not a good fit in the team. after all the Angular 
> is just like Spring it is one of the frameworks in the ecosystem. 
>
> Normally when I work with the fresh developers I ask them to build a 
> sample application using whatever JS framework they prefer, then I show 
> them that they can do it in Java without telling them it is GWT. and in 
> many times they feel WoWed. not implying that one is better but they get 
> wowed how they can do it in both, the good thing about those fresh 
> developers is that they don't have a previous preference of ecosystem over 
> the other, but in the other hand they don't know both ecosystems as they 
> should be.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 12:21:21 PM UTC+3 David Nouls wrote:
>
>> Hi Lofi, 
>>
>> In my company we are the only group that is working with GWT to develop a 
>> new customer facing application. We have a few products in maintenance mode 
>> that are also using GWT. But most new developments are using Angular.
>>
>> The biggest problems we are facing with using GWT/Java for the client are:
>> - Lack of developers with GUI and GWT skills
>> - Lack of developers who are even willing to learn GWT.  GWT is seen as a 
>> dead technology after Google pushed it out.
>> - Management does not like us to keep on using GWT for the same reason.
>>
>> I managed to convince management to use GWT for our product because we 
>> have a long history of using GWT and we had experience before with the 
>> maintenance burdens of using JavaScript in the past. And we can deliver GUI 
>> changes quite quickly (in many cases much faster than the teams using 
>> Angular).
>>
>> But we do have a big problem finding GWT developers or finding people who 
>> want to learn it. And that is a very big risk for a project.
>>
>> I know that there is active development going on in GWT and J2CL but, you 
>

Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Vegegoku]

I am still don't know why people call the developer like this, GWT 
developers, Angular developers, React developers...etc.. have we ever 
called developers like `Spring developers`, `hibernate developers`, `Rest 
developers` ..etc... I would say we have Java developers and JS developers, 
developers belong to the ecosystem, not to the framework or the library. 
GWT, for example, is just a compiler, you need people who know java and the 
java echo system, not GWT, you can make them GWT familiar way faster than 
you think, you don't even need them to know this is GWT it is just Java. I 
have done this with few Java developers I showed them that I am building a 
web application with java without telling them it was GWT and they were 
impressed, they even built some small apps with the little information I 
gave to them. The same goes for JS, if you have a developer who just knows 
Angular, but does not know JavaScript or can't work with other JS 
frameworks then that is not a good fit in the team. after all the Angular 
is just like Spring it is one of the frameworks in the ecosystem.

Normally when I work with the fresh developers I ask them to build a sample 
application using whatever JS framework they prefer, then I show them that 
they can do it in Java without telling them it is GWT. and in many times 
they feel WoWed. not implying that one is better but they get wowed how 
they can do it in both, the good thing about those fresh developers is that 
they don't have a previous preference of ecosystem over the other, but in 
the other hand they don't know both ecosystems as they should be.



On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 12:21:21 PM UTC+3 David Nouls wrote:

> Hi Lofi,
>
> In my company we are the only group that is working with GWT to develop a 
> new customer facing application. We have a few products in maintenance mode 
> that are also using GWT. But most new developments are using Angular.
>
> The biggest problems we are facing with using GWT/Java for the client are:
> - Lack of developers with GUI and GWT skills
> - Lack of developers who are even willing to learn GWT.  GWT is seen as a 
> dead technology after Google pushed it out.
> - Management does not like us to keep on using GWT for the same reason.
>
> I managed to convince management to use GWT for our product because we 
> have a long history of using GWT and we had experience before with the 
> maintenance burdens of using JavaScript in the past. And we can deliver GUI 
> changes quite quickly (in many cases much faster than the teams using 
> Angular).
>
> But we do have a big problem finding GWT developers or finding people who 
> want to learn it. And that is a very big risk for a project.
>
> I know that there is active development going on in GWT and J2CL but, you 
> barely see blog posts about GWT or libraries being released for it.
> The gwtproject page is mostly stale, the documentation is mostly about old 
> API's. The more advanced features takes some time to find and learn.
>
> If you compare that with the constant release cycle and amount of 
> info/noise I see related to Angular and other Frameworks then it is 
> understandable that people have the impression that GWT is dead.
>
> On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 9:02:18 PM UTC+2 lofid...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I would like to know, what are the *obstacles* for you as *Java 
>> developers* not using *Java as programming language for writing Web 
>> browser apps*. Web browser apps are client-side and *not server-side* Web 
>> apps. 
>>
>>- Open discussion at https://bit.ly/HackerNewsTypeScriptJavaGWT
>>- Article at https://bit.ly/TypeScriptVsJavaGWT
>>
>> I would like to know from you... Java developers...
>>
>> Thanks, Lofi
>>
>>
>>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[David Nouls]

Hi Lofi,

In my company we are the only group that is working with GWT to develop a 
new customer facing application. We have a few products in maintenance mode 
that are also using GWT. But most new developments are using Angular.

The biggest problems we are facing with using GWT/Java for the client are:
- Lack of developers with GUI and GWT skills
- Lack of developers who are even willing to learn GWT.  GWT is seen as a 
dead technology after Google pushed it out.
- Management does not like us to keep on using GWT for the same reason.

I managed to convince management to use GWT for our product because we have 
a long history of using GWT and we had experience before with the 
maintenance burdens of using JavaScript in the past. And we can deliver GUI 
changes quite quickly (in many cases much faster than the teams using 
Angular).

But we do have a big problem finding GWT developers or finding people who 
want to learn it. And that is a very big risk for a project.

I know that there is active development going on in GWT and J2CL but, you 
barely see blog posts about GWT or libraries being released for it.
The gwtproject page is mostly stale, the documentation is mostly about old 
API's. The more advanced features takes some time to find and learn.

If you compare that with the constant release cycle and amount of 
info/noise I see related to Angular and other Frameworks then it is 
understandable that people have the impression that GWT is dead.

On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 9:02:18 PM UTC+2 lofid...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I would like to know, what are the *obstacles* for you as *Java 
> developers* not using *Java as programming language for writing Web 
> browser apps*. Web browser apps are client-side and *not server-side* Web 
> apps. 
>
>- Open discussion at https://bit.ly/HackerNewsTypeScriptJavaGWT
>- Article at https://bit.ly/TypeScriptVsJavaGWT
>
> I would like to know from you... Java developers...
>
> Thanks, Lofi
>
>
>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[lofid...@gmail.com]

One thing to the Mocking framework: https://mswjs.io it looks indeed very 
interesting. 

In GWT I used to implement the mock implementation in "development time" 
and remove it in "production time" by using GWT options for different 
"sourcepath" and "entry point" with help of DI. It works very well. So I 
never have to run the "server / REST APIs" part to be able to develop the 
whole UI. Very productive.

 and to try to answer your question: *"what are the obstacles for you 
to use JS or TS (possibly mixed with Java through J2Cl) for frontend 
development?"* here you are: 😉

(1) JS sofar is difficult to use for a bit complex UI. 

Quote from Anders Hejlsberg: 

"Developers by then had started to build huge JavaScript apps for the 
browser and were struggling to write them in JavaScript, a language he says 
lacked key features like modules, classes, and, importantly, a type system 
for creating order through rules in a program."

This interview is a must read: http://bit.ly/AndersHTypeScriptInterview

You can see today that all of those a bit complex frameworks use TypeScript 
instead of JavaScript (VueJS 3.0, Angular, ...)

*Conclusion*: JavaScript is in this form today difficult to use.

(2) TypeScript is definitely very good as I already said above in this 
thread. But I cannot see the advantages using TS if you come from Java and 
can use GWT / J2CL. If you have frontend developers, yes, TS is definitely 
the way to go since it is more similar to JavaScript. I know that Erich 
Gamma moves from Java / Eclipse to TypeScript / Visual Studio Code / 
Electron but sofar I cannot see that VSC is better than Eclipse. So, yes, 
very interesting to be able to write those things also in Web browser with 
TypeScript and you can embed it into GitHub as a web editor.

Eclipse Che moved from GWT to Eclipse Thea (also TS based): 
https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2018/12/19/eclipse-che-7-is-coming-and-its-really-hot-2-4
The reason: "Theia is a framework to build web IDEs. It is built in 
TypeScript and will give contributors a more enjoyable experience with a 
programming model that is more flexible and easier to use, and makes it 
faster to deliver their new plugins." But I'm not sure why they could not 
build plugins based on GWT which is flexible and easier to use. As we know 
we all like to begin from scratch and don't like the idea of maintenance 
😀😅

Introducing TypeScript to a Java team is a different story. The language is 
the smallest problem but the ecosystem, library, build, CI/CD pipeline, 
dependencies management, artifacts scanner, etc.(see the presentation of 
Netflix above). For many companies you mostly have some intelligent forms 
and for this purpose I don't see that TypeScript has advantages in 
comparison with Java / GWT / J2CL (of course we need to address the UI 
frameworks based on TS or GWT / J2CL as well). One thing you should not 
forget, on-boarding process of new developers and the ability to be a 
full-stack team. A team which all the developers can do everything, from 
frontend to server-side implementation (not to have separation between 
frontend and backend developers).

*Conclusion*: TypeScript is the way if you have JavaScript developers. If 
you are coming from Java with Java developers in team, IMHO GWT / J2CL is 
the way to go. It is also fun to work with the modern GWT web apps 😀😉👍

Just my 2 ct.

t.br...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 29. September 2020 um 13:45:56 UTC+2:

>
>
> On Tuesday, September 29, 2020 at 12:08:36 AM UTC+2, lofid...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>>
>> OK, now I understand you 😉
>>
>> Yes, we always have to separate the Client and the Server part. This is 
>> also GWT best practice.
>>
>> But if you are using JavaScript on browser you lose the advantages like:
>>
>>1. We use *Java* as the language
>>
>>
> Is Java objectively the best language out there to be used as an argument 
> that way?
>  
>
>>
>>1. We have the best *ecosystem* like libraries, frameworks, build 
>>system and IDEs.
>>
>>
> Please define in which way they're "the best".
> In terms of dependency management, NPM and Yarn are probably better than 
> Maven (but not Gradle, which looks unrivaled on that point).
> In terms of build systems, I hope you're not trying to compare anything to 
> Maven; but I also wonder how you're going to do things like PostCSS, 
> Imagemin, SVGO, etc. do with a J2Cl toolchain. GWT does some of those (not 
> all), but the JS frontend ecosystem is the clear winner on that point.
> VS Code, and probably (I never used them for non-JVM projects) IntelliJ 
> IDEA / WebStorm, and I suppose Visual Studio too, are absolutely great IDEs 
> too for JS and/or TypeScript (and Go, and probably many others).
>
>>
>>1. We know best design patterns to make our apps maintainable like 
>>Dependency Injection, Mock Testing and many other just take a look at: 
>>http://bit.ly/DesignPatternsJava 
>>
>> 

Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[lofid...@gmail.com]

Hi Thomas,

thanks for the feedback.

This is my point of view as a Java developer 😉I did some Polyglot projects 
and have written my summary here from 2011: 

   - English: 
   
http://lofidewanto.blogspot.com/2011/10/why-is-polyglot-programming-or-do-it.html
  
   

   - German: https://heise.de/-1479542

In the beginning I was a fan of "use the right language for the right 
problem" but at the end I saw the problem in maintenance and as we all 
know, maintenance is the hardest part of software development. Building 
from scratch is always easy and fun. This presentation from Netflix is also 
very interesting: https://youtu.be/W3HkCF0jBZA - Key message: *Polyglot is 
expensive*. As I wrote my summary in *2011* I always thought that all the 
problems in maintenance is because my projects were always mid-size and 
such a problem would not exist in Google, FB, Netflix... but the 
presentation from Netflix from *2018* told me something different 😁

I know and IMHO I think TypeScript is a very good *language* + *transpiler* 
+ *tooling*. But today I'm very careful to introduce new programming 
language, new tooling, frameworks and ecosystem. If I cannot see the clear 
advantages I won't do it. Just because you could write the code in more 
compact or functional way, it won't give you the advantages you hope.

So, to come back to the discussion, yes my opinion is biased but I hope I'm 
not dogmatic, this should not happen in our domain or elsewhere since I 
hope that we could always learn new things and adapt the good things and 
learn from the bad things 😉

BTW. I find it also interesting that Angular offers DI and it looks really 
like all the patterns we had in GWT... and I found Mocking is very 
important, I see a lot of developers cannot "localized" the problem to fix 
bugs faster. In today environment with Microservices it is a very important 
work to make everything in "small" part / "make everything running locally" 
so you could enclose the problem and fix it.

Thanks,
Lofi
t.br...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 29. September 2020 um 13:45:56 UTC+2:

>
>
> On Tuesday, September 29, 2020 at 12:08:36 AM UTC+2, lofid...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>>
>> OK, now I understand you 😉
>>
>> Yes, we always have to separate the Client and the Server part. This is 
>> also GWT best practice.
>>
>> But if you are using JavaScript on browser you lose the advantages like:
>>
>>1. We use *Java* as the language
>>
>>
> Is Java objectively the best language out there to be used as an argument 
> that way?
>  
>
>>
>>1. We have the best *ecosystem* like libraries, frameworks, build 
>>system and IDEs.
>>
>>
> Please define in which way they're "the best".
> In terms of dependency management, NPM and Yarn are probably better than 
> Maven (but not Gradle, which looks unrivaled on that point).
> In terms of build systems, I hope you're not trying to compare anything to 
> Maven; but I also wonder how you're going to do things like PostCSS, 
> Imagemin, SVGO, etc. do with a J2Cl toolchain. GWT does some of those (not 
> all), but the JS frontend ecosystem is the clear winner on that point.
> VS Code, and probably (I never used them for non-JVM projects) IntelliJ 
> IDEA / WebStorm, and I suppose Visual Studio too, are absolutely great IDEs 
> too for JS and/or TypeScript (and Go, and probably many others).
>
>>
>>1. We know best design patterns to make our apps maintainable like 
>>Dependency Injection, Mock Testing and many other just take a look at: 
>>http://bit.ly/DesignPatternsJava 
>>
>> 
>>
>>
> Wow, how condescending!
> BTW, as already pointed by Rodolfo, design patterns are language 
> independent. The "GoF" Design Patterns book has all its examples in C++ and 
> Smalltalk, not Java; and that link you give lists exactly those patterns 
> from the book.
> I do miss Dependency Injection from time to time in JS devs, but if you 
> really want/need it, there are ways to do it (React Context for example); 
> and Angular does DI: 
> https://angular.io/guide/architecture-services#dependency-injection-di
> Mocking is overrated, but far from impossible in JS, including for network 
> access: https://mswjs.io/ and even though I personally rarely do 
> automated testing of frontend devs (and that's true of GWT too), the JS 
> ecosystem has some quite good libraries as well (testing in a browser 
> environment with GWT is quite "outdated" in comparison: HtmlUnit or the 
> defunct SeleniumRC, or manually launching your browser; fortunately we're 
> doing better with J2Cl by leveraging Selenium/WebDriver).
>  
>
>>
>>1. … and if you use Java on the server-side with *Spring Framework*
>> or *JavaEE* you have *one language* through the whole stack. So, you 
>>could reuse Validation APIs, Business 

Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Rodolfo M. Raya]

I can't choose which security scanner to use. That's already defined by
clients.

Maven is not an option.

Regards,
Rodolfo

On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 11:03 AM lofid...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hi Rodolfo,
>
> thanks for the insight.
>
> Yes, I think SonarCube is standard tool for the quality of the code today.
>
> We are using Maven with Sonatype Nexus and use BlackDuck (
> https://www.blackducksoftware.com) for checking all the dependencies...
> Sonatype also offers Sonatype Nexus Vulnerability Scanner
>  and Nexus Auditor
>  for similar purpose.
>
> Such tools also analyze the compliance for the OSS licenses.
>
> So you can still use Maven and it's secure.
>
> rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 29. September 2020 um 11:30:22
> UTC+2:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I don't want a tool to manage dependencies for me because that means I
>> may lose clients concerned with security.
>>
>> I wrote a web app used by a couple of large banks. Each new release must
>> pass extensive security tests before deploying. Code must be reviewed using
>> SonarQube, dependencies must pass OWASP dependency checks and the test
>> server must pass an OWASP ZAP (Zed Attack Proxy) attack.
>>
>> If Maven or some other tool decides to update one of the selected jars
>> used by my project, it can introduce a version marked as a high security
>> risk. That's something I can't allow.
>>
>> Maven can simplify dependency management, but it is a terrible security
>> risk.
>>
>> FWIW, I use Apache ANT for building. It is "old" but works without
>> changing project dependencies.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rodolfo
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 5:57 AM lofid...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahh, I mean not only "Maven" just a *build tool* like Maven, Gradle,
>>> Buildr, Bazel, Ivy or whatever... 😉👍
>>>
>>> The main thing we need to *manage the dependencies and versions*.
>>>
>>> Just putting those Jar files in your project and only depends on IDE
>>> dependent plugins won't help in mid term, IMHO.
>>>
>>> stock...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 29. September 2020 um 09:57:24
>>> UTC+2:
>>>

 Lofi,

 https://github.com/pepstock-org/Charba is not using Maven and it's
 using Ivy.

 Also I'm not using it for my applications. I had to use it for the
 Charba J2CL showcase where I'm leveraging on J2CL maven plugin.

 Il giorno martedì 29 settembre 2020 alle 09:40:22 UTC+2
 lofid...@gmail.com ha scritto:

> Actually I don't see any Java apps should work without Maven:
>
>- Why won't you use Maven? At the end everyone has to *manage
>dependencies* / *versions* and today you need such a tool like
>Maven.
>
> Yes, design patterns are language independent.
>
> Did you use pdf.js? And this is actually a very important part of GWT
> / J2CL development. In such a case we should always offer an Open Source
> lib for *JsInterop*, just like *DefinitelyTyped* in TypeScript... I
> found a GWT project for pdf.js but it still using JSNI:
> https://github.com/pandurangpatil/gwt-pdfjs
>
> I think, I'll open a GitHub project for the list of libraries for GWT,
> similar to *DefinitelyTyped but only a link list...*
>
> As you said, if everyone support implementing *JsInterop files for
> JavaScript libs* it will be very easy for Java developers to use them
> and they don't need to write the JsInterop files for x times...
>
> Thanks,
> Lofi
> rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 29. September 2020 um 01:06:29
> UTC+2:
>
>> Hello Lofi,
>>
>> Some loose comments:
>>
>> - Another great advantage I enjoy is that I don't need Maven. Can you
>> rewrite your example _without_ depending on Maven? And without using a
>> library that relies on annotations?
>>
>> - VisualStudio code is great for Java and JavaScript. You can also
>> use Eclipse with Java and JavaScript, but it is not as fast.
>>
>> - Design patterns are language independent. You can use them with
>> Java, TypeScript, C++ or whatever you like.
>>
>> - Although there tons of libraries you can use on the server side,
>> Java has limited options as a client in a browser. For example, in one of
>> my projects I need to display a PDF in the browser and manipulate its 
>> text
>> content depending on certain user actions; there aren't Java libraries 
>> that
>> can work in the browser and are good enough for the task.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rodolfo
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:09 PM lofid...@gmail.com <
>> lofid...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> OK, now I understand you 😉
>>>
>>> Yes, we always have to separate the Client and the Server part. This
>>> is also GWT best practice.
>>>
>>> But if you are using JavaScript on browser you lose the advantages
>>> like:
>>

Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Thomas Broyer]

On Tuesday, September 29, 2020 at 12:08:36 AM UTC+2, lofid...@gmail.com 
wrote:
>
> OK, now I understand you 😉
>
> Yes, we always have to separate the Client and the Server part. This is 
> also GWT best practice.
>
> But if you are using JavaScript on browser you lose the advantages like:
>
>1. We use *Java* as the language
>
>
Is Java objectively the best language out there to be used as an argument 
that way?
 

>
>1. We have the best *ecosystem* like libraries, frameworks, build 
>system and IDEs.
>
>
Please define in which way they're "the best".
In terms of dependency management, NPM and Yarn are probably better than 
Maven (but not Gradle, which looks unrivaled on that point).
In terms of build systems, I hope you're not trying to compare anything to 
Maven; but I also wonder how you're going to do things like PostCSS, 
Imagemin, SVGO, etc. do with a J2Cl toolchain. GWT does some of those (not 
all), but the JS frontend ecosystem is the clear winner on that point.
VS Code, and probably (I never used them for non-JVM projects) IntelliJ 
IDEA / WebStorm, and I suppose Visual Studio too, are absolutely great IDEs 
too for JS and/or TypeScript (and Go, and probably many others).

>
>1. We know best design patterns to make our apps maintainable like 
>Dependency Injection, Mock Testing and many other just take a look at: 
>http://bit.ly/DesignPatternsJava 
>
> 
>
>
Wow, how condescending!
BTW, as already pointed by Rodolfo, design patterns are language 
independent. The "GoF" Design Patterns book has all its examples in C++ and 
Smalltalk, not Java; and that link you give lists exactly those patterns 
from the book.
I do miss Dependency Injection from time to time in JS devs, but if you 
really want/need it, there are ways to do it (React Context for example); 
and Angular does 
DI: https://angular.io/guide/architecture-services#dependency-injection-di
Mocking is overrated, but far from impossible in JS, including for network 
access: https://mswjs.io/ and even though I personally rarely do automated 
testing of frontend devs (and that's true of GWT too), the JS ecosystem has 
some quite good libraries as well (testing in a browser environment with 
GWT is quite "outdated" in comparison: HtmlUnit or the defunct SeleniumRC, 
or manually launching your browser; fortunately we're doing better with 
J2Cl by leveraging Selenium/WebDriver).
 

>
>1. … and if you use Java on the server-side with *Spring Framework* or 
>*JavaEE* you have *one language* through the whole stack. So, you 
>could reuse Validation APIs, Business Rules, Business Model, etc. from 
>server to client.
>
>
If you do need to share code, then J2Cl is for you; but that doesn't mean 
using Java for the whole client-side app. That's actually exactly what J2Cl 
was built for, in replacement for GWT inside Google: leveraging Closure for 
web development while being able to share code with the backend through 
J2Cl (and mobile native apps, through J2ObjC for iOS).

Back to your original question: 

> I would like to know, what are the *obstacles* for you as *Java 
> developers* not using *Java as programming language for writing Web 
> browser apps*.


First, I don't consider myself as a "Java developer"; I'm a developer, and 
I'm proficient in Java (but also JavaScript and Kotlin, somewhat less in Go 
or Python, and I could probably still do good things in PHP if you forced 
me to use it).
Now let me return the question: what are the obstacles for you to use JS or 
TS (possibly mixed with Java through J2Cl) for frontend development?

I'm not saying you shouldn't use Java (we wouldn't be there otherwise), I'm 
questioning why you wouldn't use something else.
By describing yourself as a Java developer (and praising the Java language 
and ecosystem like you do), it looks like maybe it could be because you 
don't *know* anything else, treating Java like your golden hammer 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_instrument)

My personal take on it is: it depends. It depends on the project (what it 
does, whether you need to leverage some existing Java or JS library, its 
size, whether you need to share code with the server and/or native mobile 
apps, etc.), and of course the project team and its skills.

>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Andrea Stocchero]

Sorry Lofi, I misunderstood you.

Fully agree with you!

Il giorno martedì 29 settembre 2020 alle 10:56:26 UTC+2 lofid...@gmail.com 
ha scritto:

> Ahh, I mean not only "Maven" just a *build tool* like Maven, Gradle, 
> Buildr, Bazel, Ivy or whatever... 😉👍
>
> The main thing we need to *manage the dependencies and versions*.
>
> Just putting those Jar files in your project and only depends on IDE 
> dependent plugins won't help in mid term, IMHO.
>
> stock...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 29. September 2020 um 09:57:24 
> UTC+2:
>
>>
>> Lofi, 
>>
>> https://github.com/pepstock-org/Charba is not using Maven and it's using 
>> Ivy.
>>
>> Also I'm not using it for my applications. I had to use it for the Charba 
>> J2CL showcase where I'm leveraging on J2CL maven plugin. 
>>
>> Il giorno martedì 29 settembre 2020 alle 09:40:22 UTC+2 
>> lofid...@gmail.com ha scritto:
>>
>>> Actually I don't see any Java apps should work without Maven:
>>>
>>>- Why won't you use Maven? At the end everyone has to *manage 
>>>dependencies* / *versions* and today you need such a tool like Maven.
>>>
>>> Yes, design patterns are language independent.
>>>
>>> Did you use pdf.js? And this is actually a very important part of GWT / 
>>> J2CL development. In such a case we should always offer an Open Source lib 
>>> for *JsInterop*, just like *DefinitelyTyped* in TypeScript... I found a 
>>> GWT project for pdf.js but it still using JSNI: 
>>> https://github.com/pandurangpatil/gwt-pdfjs
>>>
>>> I think, I'll open a GitHub project for the list of libraries for GWT, 
>>> similar to *DefinitelyTyped but only a link list...*
>>>
>>> As you said, if everyone support implementing *JsInterop files for 
>>> JavaScript libs* it will be very easy for Java developers to use them 
>>> and they don't need to write the JsInterop files for x times...
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lofi
>>> rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 29. September 2020 um 01:06:29 
>>> UTC+2:
>>>
 Hello Lofi,

 Some loose comments:

 - Another great advantage I enjoy is that I don't need Maven. Can you 
 rewrite your example _without_ depending on Maven? And without using a 
 library that relies on annotations?

 - VisualStudio code is great for Java and JavaScript. You can also use 
 Eclipse with Java and JavaScript, but it is not as fast.

 - Design patterns are language independent. You can use them with Java, 
 TypeScript, C++ or whatever you like.

 - Although there tons of libraries you can use on the server side, Java 
 has limited options as a client in a browser. For example, in one of my 
 projects I need to display a PDF in the browser and manipulate its text 
 content depending on certain user actions; there aren't Java libraries 
 that 
 can work in the browser and are good enough for the task.

 Regards,
 Rodolfo


 On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:09 PM lofid...@gmail.com  
 wrote:

> OK, now I understand you 😉
>
> Yes, we always have to separate the Client and the Server part. This 
> is also GWT best practice.
>
> But if you are using JavaScript on browser you lose the advantages 
> like:
>
>1. We use *Java* as the language
>2. We have the best *ecosystem* like libraries, frameworks, build 
>system and IDEs.
>3. We know best design patterns to make our apps maintainable like 
>Dependency Injection, Mock Testing and many other just take a look at: 
>http://bit.ly/DesignPatternsJava
>4. … and if you use Java on the server-side with *Spring Framework*
> or *JavaEE* you have *one language* through the whole stack. So, 
>you could reuse Validation APIs, Business Rules, Business Model, etc. 
> from 
>server to client.
>
> I've built this sample project: 
> https://github.com/gwtboot/domino-rest-enum-date to show some reuse 
> for Client and Server and I plan to write more articles on this topic: 
> Dependency Injection, Mocking Test, Validation API, Business Rules - all 
> from Server to Client.
>
> This type of reuse cannot be done if you are using JavaScript / 
> TypeScript on the web browser...
>
> Thanks,
> Lofi
> rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 23:20:23 
> UTC+2:
>
>> If the server part is a Java servlet that handles REST calls, there 
>> is no need for GWT at all. No need to deal with JSInterop and no need to 
>> deal with annotations, that's cleaner code!
>>
>> If you have a server that exposes a REST API, you can write the 
>> client in anything. JavaScript is great in the browser and TypeScript 
>> improves the coding experience while sharing direct use of JavaScript 
>> libraries.
>>
>> Running a Java client in the browser implies extra steps and 
>> complications. First and foremost, you can't mix Java and Ja

Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Andrea Stocchero]

Sorry Lofi,



Il giorno mar 29 set 2020 alle ore 10:57 lofid...@gmail.com <
lofidewa...@gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Ahh, I mean not only "Maven" just a *build tool* like Maven, Gradle,
> Buildr, Bazel, Ivy or whatever... 😉👍
>
> The main thing we need to *manage the dependencies and versions*.
>
> Just putting those Jar files in your project and only depends on IDE
> dependent plugins won't help in mid term, IMHO.
>
> stock...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 29. September 2020 um 09:57:24
> UTC+2:
>
>>
>> Lofi,
>>
>> https://github.com/pepstock-org/Charba is not using Maven and it's using
>> Ivy.
>>
>> Also I'm not using it for my applications. I had to use it for the Charba
>> J2CL showcase where I'm leveraging on J2CL maven plugin.
>>
>> Il giorno martedì 29 settembre 2020 alle 09:40:22 UTC+2
>> lofid...@gmail.com ha scritto:
>>
>>> Actually I don't see any Java apps should work without Maven:
>>>
>>>- Why won't you use Maven? At the end everyone has to *manage
>>>dependencies* / *versions* and today you need such a tool like Maven.
>>>
>>> Yes, design patterns are language independent.
>>>
>>> Did you use pdf.js? And this is actually a very important part of GWT /
>>> J2CL development. In such a case we should always offer an Open Source lib
>>> for *JsInterop*, just like *DefinitelyTyped* in TypeScript... I found a
>>> GWT project for pdf.js but it still using JSNI:
>>> https://github.com/pandurangpatil/gwt-pdfjs
>>>
>>> I think, I'll open a GitHub project for the list of libraries for GWT,
>>> similar to *DefinitelyTyped but only a link list...*
>>>
>>> As you said, if everyone support implementing *JsInterop files for
>>> JavaScript libs* it will be very easy for Java developers to use them
>>> and they don't need to write the JsInterop files for x times...
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lofi
>>> rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 29. September 2020 um 01:06:29
>>> UTC+2:
>>>
 Hello Lofi,

 Some loose comments:

 - Another great advantage I enjoy is that I don't need Maven. Can you
 rewrite your example _without_ depending on Maven? And without using a
 library that relies on annotations?

 - VisualStudio code is great for Java and JavaScript. You can also use
 Eclipse with Java and JavaScript, but it is not as fast.

 - Design patterns are language independent. You can use them with Java,
 TypeScript, C++ or whatever you like.

 - Although there tons of libraries you can use on the server side, Java
 has limited options as a client in a browser. For example, in one of my
 projects I need to display a PDF in the browser and manipulate its text
 content depending on certain user actions; there aren't Java libraries that
 can work in the browser and are good enough for the task.

 Regards,
 Rodolfo


 On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:09 PM lofid...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> OK, now I understand you 😉
>
> Yes, we always have to separate the Client and the Server part. This
> is also GWT best practice.
>
> But if you are using JavaScript on browser you lose the advantages
> like:
>
>1. We use *Java* as the language
>2. We have the best *ecosystem* like libraries, frameworks, build
>system and IDEs.
>3. We know best design patterns to make our apps maintainable like
>Dependency Injection, Mock Testing and many other just take a look at:
>http://bit.ly/DesignPatternsJava
>4. … and if you use Java on the server-side with *Spring Framework*
> or *JavaEE* you have *one language* through the whole stack. So,
>you could reuse Validation APIs, Business Rules, Business Model, etc. 
> from
>server to client.
>
> I've built this sample project:
> https://github.com/gwtboot/domino-rest-enum-date to show some reuse
> for Client and Server and I plan to write more articles on this topic:
> Dependency Injection, Mocking Test, Validation API, Business Rules - all
> from Server to Client.
>
> This type of reuse cannot be done if you are using JavaScript /
> TypeScript on the web browser...
>
> Thanks,
> Lofi
> rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 23:20:23
> UTC+2:
>
>> If the server part is a Java servlet that handles REST calls, there
>> is no need for GWT at all. No need to deal with JSInterop and no need to
>> deal with annotations, that's cleaner code!
>>
>> If you have a server that exposes a REST API, you can write the
>> client in anything. JavaScript is great in the browser and TypeScript
>> improves the coding experience while sharing direct use of JavaScript
>> libraries.
>>
>> Running a Java client in the browser implies extra steps and
>> complications. First and foremost, you can't mix Java and JavaScript
>> libraries without wasting a lot of time with compatibility layers. T

Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Jens]

> If Maven or some other tool decides to update one of the selected jars 
> used by my project, it can introduce a version marked as a high security 
> risk. That's something I can't allow.
>

You define a specific library version in your dependency management tool. 
There are also tools for Maven/Gradle that verify dependency signatures 
against a list of trusted signatures defined manually in the build script. 
That way you can make sure your download from Maven central / jcenter is 
the one you expect to download.

Here an example of using Gradle with signature 
verification: 
https://docs.gradle.org/current/userguide/dependency_verification.html

-- J.

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Rodolfo M. Raya]

Hi,

I don't want a tool to manage dependencies for me because that means I may
lose clients concerned with security.

I wrote a web app used by a couple of large banks. Each new release must
pass extensive security tests before deploying. Code must be reviewed using
SonarQube, dependencies must pass OWASP dependency checks and the test
server must pass an OWASP ZAP (Zed Attack Proxy) attack.

If Maven or some other tool decides to update one of the selected jars used
by my project, it can introduce a version marked as a high security risk.
That's something I can't allow.

Maven can simplify dependency management, but it is a terrible security
risk.

FWIW, I use Apache ANT for building. It is "old" but works without changing
project dependencies.

Regards,
Rodolfo


On Tue, Sep 29, 2020 at 5:57 AM lofid...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Ahh, I mean not only "Maven" just a *build tool* like Maven, Gradle,
> Buildr, Bazel, Ivy or whatever... 😉👍
>
> The main thing we need to *manage the dependencies and versions*.
>
> Just putting those Jar files in your project and only depends on IDE
> dependent plugins won't help in mid term, IMHO.
>
> stock...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 29. September 2020 um 09:57:24
> UTC+2:
>
>>
>> Lofi,
>>
>> https://github.com/pepstock-org/Charba is not using Maven and it's using
>> Ivy.
>>
>> Also I'm not using it for my applications. I had to use it for the Charba
>> J2CL showcase where I'm leveraging on J2CL maven plugin.
>>
>> Il giorno martedì 29 settembre 2020 alle 09:40:22 UTC+2
>> lofid...@gmail.com ha scritto:
>>
>>> Actually I don't see any Java apps should work without Maven:
>>>
>>>- Why won't you use Maven? At the end everyone has to *manage
>>>dependencies* / *versions* and today you need such a tool like Maven.
>>>
>>> Yes, design patterns are language independent.
>>>
>>> Did you use pdf.js? And this is actually a very important part of GWT /
>>> J2CL development. In such a case we should always offer an Open Source lib
>>> for *JsInterop*, just like *DefinitelyTyped* in TypeScript... I found a
>>> GWT project for pdf.js but it still using JSNI:
>>> https://github.com/pandurangpatil/gwt-pdfjs
>>>
>>> I think, I'll open a GitHub project for the list of libraries for GWT,
>>> similar to *DefinitelyTyped but only a link list...*
>>>
>>> As you said, if everyone support implementing *JsInterop files for
>>> JavaScript libs* it will be very easy for Java developers to use them
>>> and they don't need to write the JsInterop files for x times...
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lofi
>>> rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Dienstag, 29. September 2020 um 01:06:29
>>> UTC+2:
>>>
 Hello Lofi,

 Some loose comments:

 - Another great advantage I enjoy is that I don't need Maven. Can you
 rewrite your example _without_ depending on Maven? And without using a
 library that relies on annotations?

 - VisualStudio code is great for Java and JavaScript. You can also use
 Eclipse with Java and JavaScript, but it is not as fast.

 - Design patterns are language independent. You can use them with Java,
 TypeScript, C++ or whatever you like.

 - Although there tons of libraries you can use on the server side, Java
 has limited options as a client in a browser. For example, in one of my
 projects I need to display a PDF in the browser and manipulate its text
 content depending on certain user actions; there aren't Java libraries that
 can work in the browser and are good enough for the task.

 Regards,
 Rodolfo


 On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:09 PM lofid...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> OK, now I understand you 😉
>
> Yes, we always have to separate the Client and the Server part. This
> is also GWT best practice.
>
> But if you are using JavaScript on browser you lose the advantages
> like:
>
>1. We use *Java* as the language
>2. We have the best *ecosystem* like libraries, frameworks, build
>system and IDEs.
>3. We know best design patterns to make our apps maintainable like
>Dependency Injection, Mock Testing and many other just take a look at:
>http://bit.ly/DesignPatternsJava
>4. … and if you use Java on the server-side with *Spring Framework*
> or *JavaEE* you have *one language* through the whole stack. So,
>you could reuse Validation APIs, Business Rules, Business Model, etc. 
> from
>server to client.
>
> I've built this sample project:
> https://github.com/gwtboot/domino-rest-enum-date to show some reuse
> for Client and Server and I plan to write more articles on this topic:
> Dependency Injection, Mocking Test, Validation API, Business Rules - all
> from Server to Client.
>
> This type of reuse cannot be done if you are using JavaScript /
> TypeScript on the web browser...
>
> Thanks,
> Lofi
> rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. Sept

Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Rodolfo M. Raya]

Hello Lofi,

Some loose comments:

- Another great advantage I enjoy is that I don't need Maven. Can you
rewrite your example _without_ depending on Maven? And without using a
library that relies on annotations?

- VisualStudio code is great for Java and JavaScript. You can also use
Eclipse with Java and JavaScript, but it is not as fast.

- Design patterns are language independent. You can use them with Java,
TypeScript, C++ or whatever you like.

- Although there tons of libraries you can use on the server side, Java has
limited options as a client in a browser. For example, in one of my
projects I need to display a PDF in the browser and manipulate its text
content depending on certain user actions; there aren't Java libraries that
can work in the browser and are good enough for the task.

Regards,
Rodolfo


On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 7:09 PM lofid...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> OK, now I understand you 😉
>
> Yes, we always have to separate the Client and the Server part. This is
> also GWT best practice.
>
> But if you are using JavaScript on browser you lose the advantages like:
>
>1. We use *Java* as the language
>2. We have the best *ecosystem* like libraries, frameworks, build
>system and IDEs.
>3. We know best design patterns to make our apps maintainable like
>Dependency Injection, Mock Testing and many other just take a look at:
>http://bit.ly/DesignPatternsJava
>4. … and if you use Java on the server-side with *Spring Framework* or
>*JavaEE* you have *one language* through the whole stack. So, you
>could reuse Validation APIs, Business Rules, Business Model, etc. from
>server to client.
>
> I've built this sample project:
> https://github.com/gwtboot/domino-rest-enum-date to show some reuse for
> Client and Server and I plan to write more articles on this topic:
> Dependency Injection, Mocking Test, Validation API, Business Rules - all
> from Server to Client.
>
> This type of reuse cannot be done if you are using JavaScript / TypeScript
> on the web browser...
>
> Thanks,
> Lofi
> rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 23:20:23 UTC+2:
>
>> If the server part is a Java servlet that handles REST calls, there is no
>> need for GWT at all. No need to deal with JSInterop and no need to deal
>> with annotations, that's cleaner code!
>>
>> If you have a server that exposes a REST API, you can write the client in
>> anything. JavaScript is great in the browser and TypeScript improves the
>> coding experience while sharing direct use of JavaScript libraries.
>>
>> Running a Java client in the browser implies extra steps and
>> complications. First and foremost, you can't mix Java and JavaScript
>> libraries without wasting a lot of time with compatibility layers. That is,
>> at least for me, the greatest advantage of using JavaScript in the browser.
>>
>> The number of libraries available for JavaScript outnumbers by orders of
>> magnitude the available libraries you can use with Java in the browser.
>>
>> Java is a very useful language, but it's not the best one for writing
>> code that runs in a web browser.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rodolfo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 5:55 PM lofid...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure whether I follow you... what is the difference using Java /
>>> GWT + REST and TypeScript + REST... The server part is the same. The web
>>> browser part is also the same. The difference is only the language and
>>> ecosystem you use on the web browser...
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lofi
>>>
>>> rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 18:02:03
>>> UTC+2:
>>>
 Hi Lofi,

 I once used GWT + Electron + Materialize running with Jetty. That
 worked, but after getting rid of GWT the code was much cleaner.

 Class com.sun.net.httpserver.HttpServer is more than enough for running
 a Java server with REST interface on the desktop.

 Another advantage of moving away from GWT is that I don't need to work
 with JSInterop and things that require annotations in the Java code.
 Creating a REST servlet in plain Java is quite straightforward.

 Regards,
 Rodolfo



 On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 12:46 PM lofid...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Hi Rodolfo,
>
> thanks a lot for the feedbacks!
>
> TypeScript is not bad. After all it's coming from Anders Helsjberg
> creator of Turbo Pascal, Delphi, VisualJ++, C#. He is a great language
> designer... 😉
>
> But actually you could use GWT to build an Electron app as you don't
> need to have a Java server for the transpiled code... or did you have
> something extra?
> *@Frankhossfeld* told me that he has done Electron app with GWT, very
> easy 😉 Maybe he could elaborate here...
>
> I never use GXT but I've used GWTBootstrap3 (Open-Source) and actually
> it was very easy to use, quite the same with using the integrated GWT
> widgets. Today Dmitrii has migrated 

Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[lofid...@gmail.com]

OK, now I understand you 😉

Yes, we always have to separate the Client and the Server part. This is 
also GWT best practice.

But if you are using JavaScript on browser you lose the advantages like:

   1. We use *Java* as the language
   2. We have the best *ecosystem* like libraries, frameworks, build system 
   and IDEs.
   3. We know best design patterns to make our apps maintainable like 
   Dependency Injection, Mock Testing and many other just take a look at: 
   http://bit.ly/DesignPatternsJava
   4. … and if you use Java on the server-side with *Spring Framework* or 
   *JavaEE* you have *one language* through the whole stack. So, you could 
   reuse Validation APIs, Business Rules, Business Model, etc. from server to 
   client.

I've built this sample project: 
https://github.com/gwtboot/domino-rest-enum-date to show some reuse for 
Client and Server and I plan to write more articles on this topic: 
Dependency Injection, Mocking Test, Validation API, Business Rules - all 
from Server to Client.

This type of reuse cannot be done if you are using JavaScript / TypeScript 
on the web browser...

Thanks,
Lofi
rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 23:20:23 UTC+2:

> If the server part is a Java servlet that handles REST calls, there is no 
> need for GWT at all. No need to deal with JSInterop and no need to deal 
> with annotations, that's cleaner code!
>
> If you have a server that exposes a REST API, you can write the client in 
> anything. JavaScript is great in the browser and TypeScript improves the 
> coding experience while sharing direct use of JavaScript libraries.
>
> Running a Java client in the browser implies extra steps and 
> complications. First and foremost, you can't mix Java and JavaScript 
> libraries without wasting a lot of time with compatibility layers. That is, 
> at least for me, the greatest advantage of using JavaScript in the browser. 
>
> The number of libraries available for JavaScript outnumbers by orders of 
> magnitude the available libraries you can use with Java in the browser. 
>
> Java is a very useful language, but it's not the best one for writing code 
> that runs in a web browser.
>
> Regards,
> Rodolfo
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 5:55 PM lofid...@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure whether I follow you... what is the difference using Java / 
>> GWT + REST and TypeScript + REST... The server part is the same. The web 
>> browser part is also the same. The difference is only the language and 
>> ecosystem you use on the web browser...
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Lofi
>>
>> rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 18:02:03 UTC+2:
>>
>>> Hi Lofi,
>>>
>>> I once used GWT + Electron + Materialize running with Jetty. That 
>>> worked, but after getting rid of GWT the code was much cleaner. 
>>>
>>> Class com.sun.net.httpserver.HttpServer is more than enough for running 
>>> a Java server with REST interface on the desktop. 
>>>
>>> Another advantage of moving away from GWT is that I don't need to work 
>>> with JSInterop and things that require annotations in the Java code. 
>>> Creating a REST servlet in plain Java is quite straightforward.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Rodolfo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 12:46 PM lofid...@gmail.com  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi Rodolfo,

 thanks a lot for the feedbacks!

 TypeScript is not bad. After all it's coming from Anders Helsjberg 
 creator of Turbo Pascal, Delphi, VisualJ++, C#. He is a great language 
 designer... 😉

 But actually you could use GWT to build an Electron app as you don't 
 need to have a Java server for the transpiled code... or did you have 
 something extra?
 *@Frankhossfeld* told me that he has done Electron app with GWT, very 
 easy 😉 Maybe he could elaborate here...

 I never use GXT but I've used GWTBootstrap3 (Open-Source) and actually 
 it was very easy to use, quite the same with using the integrated GWT 
 widgets. Today Dmitrii has migrated *GWTBootstrap3 to Elemental2* (
 https://github.com/treblereel/gwtbootstrap3). And the cool thing is 
 that for the app devs, it doesn't change anything. You could use the same 
 components and nothing has changed, only deep in the framework itself it 
 uses Elemental2 instead the older technology... Maybe *@Dmitrii* could 
 elaborate this...  

 Thanks,
 Lofi



 rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 12:36:03 
 UTC+2:

> Hello Lofi,
>
> Java + GWT + GXT + Eclipse was my main toolkit for over a decade. When 
> Sencha went crazy with the price of license renewals, I started looking 
> for 
> alternatives.
>
> Today my toolkit has changed to Java for backend/server side, 
> TypeScript for client side and Visual Studio Code for code development. 
> Communication between Java server and TypeScript UI is handled via REST 
> interface.
>
> Now

Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Rodolfo M. Raya]

If the server part is a Java servlet that handles REST calls, there is no
need for GWT at all. No need to deal with JSInterop and no need to deal
with annotations, that's cleaner code!

If you have a server that exposes a REST API, you can write the client in
anything. JavaScript is great in the browser and TypeScript improves the
coding experience while sharing direct use of JavaScript libraries.

Running a Java client in the browser implies extra steps and complications.
First and foremost, you can't mix Java and JavaScript libraries without
wasting a lot of time with compatibility layers. That is, at least for me,
the greatest advantage of using JavaScript in the browser.

The number of libraries available for JavaScript outnumbers by orders of
magnitude the available libraries you can use with Java in the browser.

Java is a very useful language, but it's not the best one for writing code
that runs in a web browser.

Regards,
Rodolfo





On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 5:55 PM lofid...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I'm not sure whether I follow you... what is the difference using Java /
> GWT + REST and TypeScript + REST... The server part is the same. The web
> browser part is also the same. The difference is only the language and
> ecosystem you use on the web browser...
>
> Thanks,
> Lofi
>
> rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 18:02:03 UTC+2:
>
>> Hi Lofi,
>>
>> I once used GWT + Electron + Materialize running with Jetty. That worked,
>> but after getting rid of GWT the code was much cleaner.
>>
>> Class com.sun.net.httpserver.HttpServer is more than enough for running a
>> Java server with REST interface on the desktop.
>>
>> Another advantage of moving away from GWT is that I don't need to work
>> with JSInterop and things that require annotations in the Java code.
>> Creating a REST servlet in plain Java is quite straightforward.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rodolfo
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 12:46 PM lofid...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Rodolfo,
>>>
>>> thanks a lot for the feedbacks!
>>>
>>> TypeScript is not bad. After all it's coming from Anders Helsjberg
>>> creator of Turbo Pascal, Delphi, VisualJ++, C#. He is a great language
>>> designer... 😉
>>>
>>> But actually you could use GWT to build an Electron app as you don't
>>> need to have a Java server for the transpiled code... or did you have
>>> something extra?
>>> *@Frankhossfeld* told me that he has done Electron app with GWT, very
>>> easy 😉 Maybe he could elaborate here...
>>>
>>> I never use GXT but I've used GWTBootstrap3 (Open-Source) and actually
>>> it was very easy to use, quite the same with using the integrated GWT
>>> widgets. Today Dmitrii has migrated *GWTBootstrap3 to Elemental2* (
>>> https://github.com/treblereel/gwtbootstrap3). And the cool thing is
>>> that for the app devs, it doesn't change anything. You could use the same
>>> components and nothing has changed, only deep in the framework itself it
>>> uses Elemental2 instead the older technology... Maybe *@Dmitrii* could
>>> elaborate this...
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Lofi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 12:36:03
>>> UTC+2:
>>>
 Hello Lofi,

 Java + GWT + GXT + Eclipse was my main toolkit for over a decade. When
 Sencha went crazy with the price of license renewals, I started looking for
 alternatives.

 Today my toolkit has changed to Java for backend/server side,
 TypeScript for client side and Visual Studio Code for code development.
 Communication between Java server and TypeScript UI is handled via REST
 interface.

 Now I'm free to choose any UI style I like, my code has simplified a
 lot and there is a clearer separation between server and client code. There
 are no license costs and I don't have to deal with GWT and GXT, except for
 an old project I still have to maintain.

 The switch to JavaScript/TypeScript gave me a huge advantage: now I can
 use ElectronJS to create cross-platform desktop apps that are actually web
 apps running on a local Java server.

 I don't regret moving away from GWT + GXT. Actually, I'm quite happy
 with the refreshed coding experience.

 Regards,
 Rodolfo M. Raya


 On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 4:02 PM lofid...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I would like to know, what are the *obstacles* for you as *Java
> developers* not using *Java as programming language for writing Web
> browser apps*. Web browser apps are client-side and *not server-side* Web
> apps.
>
>- Open discussion at https://bit.ly/HackerNewsTypeScriptJavaGWT
>- Article at https://bit.ly/TypeScriptVsJavaGWT
>
> I would like to know from you... Java developers...
>
> Thanks, Lofi
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "GWT Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from

Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[lofid...@gmail.com]

I'm not sure whether I follow you... what is the difference using Java / 
GWT + REST and TypeScript + REST... The server part is the same. The web 
browser part is also the same. The difference is only the language and 
ecosystem you use on the web browser...

Thanks,
Lofi

rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 18:02:03 UTC+2:

> Hi Lofi,
>
> I once used GWT + Electron + Materialize running with Jetty. That worked, 
> but after getting rid of GWT the code was much cleaner. 
>
> Class com.sun.net.httpserver.HttpServer is more than enough for running a 
> Java server with REST interface on the desktop. 
>
> Another advantage of moving away from GWT is that I don't need to work 
> with JSInterop and things that require annotations in the Java code. 
> Creating a REST servlet in plain Java is quite straightforward.
>
> Regards,
> Rodolfo
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 12:46 PM lofid...@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Rodolfo,
>>
>> thanks a lot for the feedbacks!
>>
>> TypeScript is not bad. After all it's coming from Anders Helsjberg 
>> creator of Turbo Pascal, Delphi, VisualJ++, C#. He is a great language 
>> designer... 😉
>>
>> But actually you could use GWT to build an Electron app as you don't need 
>> to have a Java server for the transpiled code... or did you have something 
>> extra?
>> *@Frankhossfeld* told me that he has done Electron app with GWT, very 
>> easy 😉 Maybe he could elaborate here...
>>
>> I never use GXT but I've used GWTBootstrap3 (Open-Source) and actually it 
>> was very easy to use, quite the same with using the integrated GWT widgets. 
>> Today Dmitrii has migrated *GWTBootstrap3 to Elemental2* (
>> https://github.com/treblereel/gwtbootstrap3). And the cool thing is that 
>> for the app devs, it doesn't change anything. You could use the same 
>> components and nothing has changed, only deep in the framework itself it 
>> uses Elemental2 instead the older technology... Maybe *@Dmitrii* could 
>> elaborate this...  
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Lofi
>>
>>
>>
>> rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 12:36:03 UTC+2:
>>
>>> Hello Lofi,
>>>
>>> Java + GWT + GXT + Eclipse was my main toolkit for over a decade. When 
>>> Sencha went crazy with the price of license renewals, I started looking for 
>>> alternatives.
>>>
>>> Today my toolkit has changed to Java for backend/server side, TypeScript 
>>> for client side and Visual Studio Code for code development. Communication 
>>> between Java server and TypeScript UI is handled via REST interface.
>>>
>>> Now I'm free to choose any UI style I like, my code has simplified a lot 
>>> and there is a clearer separation between server and client code. There are 
>>> no license costs and I don't have to deal with GWT and GXT, except for an 
>>> old project I still have to maintain.
>>>
>>> The switch to JavaScript/TypeScript gave me a huge advantage: now I can 
>>> use ElectronJS to create cross-platform desktop apps that are actually web 
>>> apps running on a local Java server.
>>>
>>> I don't regret moving away from GWT + GXT. Actually, I'm quite happy 
>>> with the refreshed coding experience.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Rodolfo M. Raya
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 4:02 PM lofid...@gmail.com  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I would like to know, what are the *obstacles* for you as *Java 
 developers* not using *Java as programming language for writing Web 
 browser apps*. Web browser apps are client-side and *not server-side* Web 
 apps. 

- Open discussion at https://bit.ly/HackerNewsTypeScriptJavaGWT
- Article at https://bit.ly/TypeScriptVsJavaGWT

 I would like to know from you... Java developers...

 Thanks, Lofi


 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "GWT Users" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
 an email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-web-toolkit/b099f262-5a83-4a1e-83d8-5cc6ef336e53n%40googlegroups.com
  
 
 .

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "GWT Users" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-web-toolkit/8dc3253a-a818-49b1-8e63-65492fb39d90n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Rodolfo M. Raya 
> http://www.maxprograms.com
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro

Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Rodolfo M. Raya]

Hi Lofi,

I once used GWT + Electron + Materialize running with Jetty. That worked,
but after getting rid of GWT the code was much cleaner.

Class com.sun.net.httpserver.HttpServer is more than enough for running a
Java server with REST interface on the desktop.

Another advantage of moving away from GWT is that I don't need to work with
JSInterop and things that require annotations in the Java code. Creating a
REST servlet in plain Java is quite straightforward.

Regards,
Rodolfo



On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 12:46 PM lofid...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hi Rodolfo,
>
> thanks a lot for the feedbacks!
>
> TypeScript is not bad. After all it's coming from Anders Helsjberg creator
> of Turbo Pascal, Delphi, VisualJ++, C#. He is a great language designer...
> 😉
>
> But actually you could use GWT to build an Electron app as you don't need
> to have a Java server for the transpiled code... or did you have something
> extra?
> *@Frankhossfeld* told me that he has done Electron app with GWT, very
> easy 😉 Maybe he could elaborate here...
>
> I never use GXT but I've used GWTBootstrap3 (Open-Source) and actually it
> was very easy to use, quite the same with using the integrated GWT widgets.
> Today Dmitrii has migrated *GWTBootstrap3 to Elemental2* (
> https://github.com/treblereel/gwtbootstrap3). And the cool thing is that
> for the app devs, it doesn't change anything. You could use the same
> components and nothing has changed, only deep in the framework itself it
> uses Elemental2 instead the older technology... Maybe *@Dmitrii* could
> elaborate this...
>
> Thanks,
> Lofi
>
>
>
> rmr...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 12:36:03 UTC+2:
>
>> Hello Lofi,
>>
>> Java + GWT + GXT + Eclipse was my main toolkit for over a decade. When
>> Sencha went crazy with the price of license renewals, I started looking for
>> alternatives.
>>
>> Today my toolkit has changed to Java for backend/server side, TypeScript
>> for client side and Visual Studio Code for code development. Communication
>> between Java server and TypeScript UI is handled via REST interface.
>>
>> Now I'm free to choose any UI style I like, my code has simplified a lot
>> and there is a clearer separation between server and client code. There are
>> no license costs and I don't have to deal with GWT and GXT, except for an
>> old project I still have to maintain.
>>
>> The switch to JavaScript/TypeScript gave me a huge advantage: now I can
>> use ElectronJS to create cross-platform desktop apps that are actually web
>> apps running on a local Java server.
>>
>> I don't regret moving away from GWT + GXT. Actually, I'm quite happy with
>> the refreshed coding experience.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Rodolfo M. Raya
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 4:02 PM lofid...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to know, what are the *obstacles* for you as *Java
>>> developers* not using *Java as programming language for writing Web
>>> browser apps*. Web browser apps are client-side and *not server-side* Web
>>> apps.
>>>
>>>- Open discussion at https://bit.ly/HackerNewsTypeScriptJavaGWT
>>>- Article at https://bit.ly/TypeScriptVsJavaGWT
>>>
>>> I would like to know from you... Java developers...
>>>
>>> Thanks, Lofi
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "GWT Users" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to google-web-tool...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-web-toolkit/b099f262-5a83-4a1e-83d8-5cc6ef336e53n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "GWT Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-web-toolkit/8dc3253a-a818-49b1-8e63-65492fb39d90n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 
Rodolfo M. Raya 
http://www.maxprograms.com

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[lofid...@gmail.com]

Hi stockiNail,

first of all thanks a lot for the feedback...

*1 and 2. JsInterop: *yes the mapping Java / JS  is not trivial, you need 
to know both worlds. Therefore I think the idea like DefinitelyTyped 
 is not bad. They put 
everything for TypeScript types centralized, so everybody can make it 
better everyday... We need to have JsInterops files for every JS frameworks 
and they should be generated like using JsInterop Generator or Webtack 
Generator... So if someone doesn't have the capability of JS, she/he could 
just use the JsInterop files.

stock...@gmail.com schrieb am Montag, 28. September 2020 um 12:00:10 UTC+2:

> First of all, let me say I'm a Java developer and I'm using GWT since 
> years.
>
> Having started developing java since 1996 (with java 1.0.2), I have seen 
> many technologies and frameworks to help a java developer can use to build 
> a UI on web browser (like applets, servlets, jsp, jsf, webstart).
> I have met GWT many years ago and it was for me the right answer to my 
> questions to develop by a single programming language both client and 
> server sides.
> And I'm still using.
>
> Nevertheless there are some pain points that it's important do not 
> under-estimate.
>
> 1. Java developer has to have some skills HTML, CSS and Javascript as 
> well. 
> 2. Usage of JSinterop to map a javascript code is not trivial even if it's 
> complex. It's time consuming (time that you don't have to spend using 
> Javascript).
> 3. GWT widgets should be modernized (even if there are other frameworks 
> like Domino and GWT Materials but adding complexity).
> 4. Java code must be well designed in order to be efficient. Javascript 
> (for its nature) allows you to develop very fast (time means cost).
>
> In my opinion there are other reasons why Java developers during last 
> years preferred to learn javascript for UI, like the unclear GWT future and 
> roadmap, but maybe less important.
>
> Il giorno giovedì 24 settembre 2020 alle 21:02:18 UTC+2 lofid...@gmail.com 
> ha scritto:
>
>> I would like to know, what are the *obstacles* for you as *Java 
>> developers* not using *Java as programming language for writing Web 
>> browser apps*. Web browser apps are client-side and *not server-side* Web 
>> apps. 
>>
>>- Open discussion at https://bit.ly/HackerNewsTypeScriptJavaGWT
>>- Article at https://bit.ly/TypeScriptVsJavaGWT
>>
>> I would like to know from you... Java developers...
>>
>> Thanks, Lofi
>>
>>
>>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Rodolfo M. Raya]

Hello Lofi,

Java + GWT + GXT + Eclipse was my main toolkit for over a decade. When
Sencha went crazy with the price of license renewals, I started looking for
alternatives.

Today my toolkit has changed to Java for backend/server side, TypeScript
for client side and Visual Studio Code for code development. Communication
between Java server and TypeScript UI is handled via REST interface.

Now I'm free to choose any UI style I like, my code has simplified a lot
and there is a clearer separation between server and client code. There are
no license costs and I don't have to deal with GWT and GXT, except for an
old project I still have to maintain.

The switch to JavaScript/TypeScript gave me a huge advantage: now I can use
ElectronJS to create cross-platform desktop apps that are actually web apps
running on a local Java server.

I don't regret moving away from GWT + GXT. Actually, I'm quite happy with
the refreshed coding experience.

Regards,
Rodolfo M. Raya


On Thu, Sep 24, 2020 at 4:02 PM lofid...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I would like to know, what are the *obstacles* for you as *Java
> developers* not using *Java as programming language for writing Web
> browser apps*. Web browser apps are client-side and *not server-side* Web
> apps.
>
>- Open discussion at https://bit.ly/HackerNewsTypeScriptJavaGWT
>- Article at https://bit.ly/TypeScriptVsJavaGWT
>
> I would like to know from you... Java developers...
>
> Thanks, Lofi
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "GWT Users" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to google-web-toolkit+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/google-web-toolkit/b099f262-5a83-4a1e-83d8-5cc6ef336e53n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[Andrea Stocchero]

First of all, let me say I'm a Java developer and I'm using GWT since years.

Having started developing java since 1996 (with java 1.0.2), I have seen 
many technologies and frameworks to help a java developer can use to build 
a UI on web browser (like applets, servlets, jsp, jsf, webstart).
I have met GWT many years ago and it was for me the right answer to my 
questions to develop by a single programming language both client and 
server sides.
And I'm still using.

Nevertheless there are some pain points that it's important do not 
under-estimate.

1. Java developer has to have some skills HTML, CSS and Javascript as well. 
2. Usage of JSinterop to map a javascript code is not trivial even if it's 
complex. It's time consuming (time that you don't have to spend using 
Javascript).
3. GWT widgets should be modernized (even if there are other frameworks 
like Domino and GWT Materials but adding complexity).
4. Java code must be well designed in order to be efficient. Javascript 
(for its nature) allows you to develop very fast (time means cost).

In my opinion there are other reasons why Java developers during last years 
preferred to learn javascript for UI, like the unclear GWT future and 
roadmap, but maybe less important.

Il giorno giovedì 24 settembre 2020 alle 21:02:18 UTC+2 lofid...@gmail.com 
ha scritto:

> I would like to know, what are the *obstacles* for you as *Java 
> developers* not using *Java as programming language for writing Web 
> browser apps*. Web browser apps are client-side and *not server-side* Web 
> apps. 
>
>- Open discussion at https://bit.ly/HackerNewsTypeScriptJavaGWT
>- Article at https://bit.ly/TypeScriptVsJavaGWT
>
> I would like to know from you... Java developers...
>
> Thanks, Lofi
>
>
>

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Why Don’t You Use Java for Programming the Client-Side Web Apps on Web Browser?

[lofid...@gmail.com]

I would like to know, what are the *obstacles* for you as *Java developers* not 
using *Java as programming language for writing Web browser apps*. Web 
browser apps are client-side and *not server-side* Web apps. 

   - Open discussion at https://bit.ly/HackerNewsTypeScriptJavaGWT
   - Article at https://bit.ly/TypeScriptVsJavaGWT

I would like to know from you... Java developers...

Thanks, Lofi


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