Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder
Pozz> So this is a Windows only *Gtk* bug, it isn't related to Glade. Pozz> Considering it affects all drag&drop operations for every Gtk Pozz> applications, it's very strange it wasn't fixed yet. I think t's a recent bug ing gtk+-3. The bug did not exist in gtk+-3.18 but drag and drop leaded to random crashes on windows (at least for me). In gtk+-3.20 and gtk+-3.22, I think that the crashes do not appear anymore but I found the bug you mentioned (I made a post without answers a few weeks ago). I am not a gtk developper and was not able to solve this bug myself. Regards, jpc ___ gtk-app-devel-list mailing list gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list
Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder
On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 12:32 AM, Pozz Pozz wrote: > So this is a Windows only *Gtk* bug, it isn't related to Glade. > Considering it affects all drag&drop operations for every Gtk applications, > it's very strange it wasn't fixed yet. > > My first impression is Gtk is a product for Linux applications. Using Gtk > for Windows-only application isn't so smart... I don't know why I selected > Gtk as my Windows GUI framework. Frankly, this attitude will get you nowhere, fast. If I was at all inclined to investigate and further assist, that motivation just evaporated. Dan ___ gtk-app-devel-list mailing list gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list
Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder
Il Wed, 30 Nov 2016 14:35:59 +0100 Pozz Pozz scrisse: > 2016-11-30 9:09 GMT+01:00 Nicola Fontana : > > > ... > > If your workflow heavily rely on a GUI > > builder, you have 4 options: (1) use glade as is, (2) prepare to > > file bugs and wait for the fixes, (3) fix the bugs yourself or (4) > > switch to another GUI. You can also push to speed up (2)... but > > you are already doing it. > > > > I'm interested in (3)... I'm not a guru, but I'm able to write some code > and fix simple bugs. However building current version of Glade under > Windows it's a difficult task for me. The configure script complained with > the GTK_DEBUG_CHECK (or something similar) present in the configure.ac. In this case I'd directly try to contact the glade maintainers, asking for advices: https://git.gnome.org/browse/glade/tree/MAINTAINERS Maybe they are more active on a specific IRC channel rather than on mailing list. Ciao. -- Nicola ___ gtk-app-devel-list mailing list gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list
Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder
2016-11-30 9:09 GMT+01:00 Nicola Fontana : > Il Wed, 30 Nov 2016 11:08:13 +1100 Daniel Kasak > scrisse: > > > ... > > My normal workflow is to lay things out *roughly* in glade, then > > actually run the app and see what it looks like. > > ... > > This is my workflow too, apart the fact that after the first draft > I prefer to edit the XML files directly. > > I always had problems with glade on Linux (also with glade 2 > and/or with GTK+2) but I never submitted bugs because I'm not > really that interested. If your workflow heavily rely on a GUI > builder, you have 4 options: (1) use glade as is, (2) prepare to > file bugs and wait for the fixes, (3) fix the bugs yourself or (4) > switch to another GUI. You can also push to speed up (2)... but > you are already doing it. > I'm interested in (3)... I'm not a guru, but I'm able to write some code and fix simple bugs. However building current version of Glade under Windows it's a difficult task for me. The configure script complained with the GTK_DEBUG_CHECK (or something similar) present in the configure.ac. ___ gtk-app-devel-list mailing list gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list
Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder
2016-11-30 9:25 GMT+01:00 Jean-Philippe Chancelier : > > pozzugno> Another problem, is very difficult to drag&drop one or more > pozzugno> widgets (under a sub-tree) between two places. When I click > on a > pozzugno> widget (or container) and start moving, the mouse pointer > pozzugno> disappears at all, so the target place is very difficult to > find > pozzugno> (see [2]). During dragging movement, something appears at the > pozzugno> top-left corner of the window. > > Hi, > I confirm this bug which can be checked just using the gtk3-demo.exe > file > using the demo <>. Compared to the Linux version where > the drag and drop is ok. The windows version gives the behaviour > described > above which is really blocking for using drag-drop. > The bug is present in gtk+-3.22.4 So this is a Windows only *Gtk* bug, it isn't related to Glade. Considering it affects all drag&drop operations for every Gtk applications, it's very strange it wasn't fixed yet. My first impression is Gtk is a product for Linux applications. Using Gtk for Windows-only application isn't so smart... I don't know why I selected Gtk as my Windows GUI framework. ___ gtk-app-devel-list mailing list gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list
Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder
pozzugno> Another problem, is very difficult to drag&drop one or more pozzugno> widgets (under a sub-tree) between two places. When I click on a pozzugno> widget (or container) and start moving, the mouse pointer pozzugno> disappears at all, so the target place is very difficult to find pozzugno> (see [2]). During dragging movement, something appears at the pozzugno> top-left corner of the window. Hi, I confirm this bug which can be checked just using the gtk3-demo.exe file using the demo <>. Compared to the Linux version where the drag and drop is ok. The windows version gives the behaviour described above which is really blocking for using drag-drop. The bug is present in gtk+-3.22.4 Regards jpc ___ gtk-app-devel-list mailing list gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list
Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder
Il Wed, 30 Nov 2016 11:08:13 +1100 Daniel Kasak scrisse: > ... > My normal workflow is to lay things out *roughly* in glade, then > actually run the app and see what it looks like. > ... This is my workflow too, apart the fact that after the first draft I prefer to edit the XML files directly. I always had problems with glade on Linux (also with glade 2 and/or with GTK+2) but I never submitted bugs because I'm not really that interested. If your workflow heavily rely on a GUI builder, you have 4 options: (1) use glade as is, (2) prepare to file bugs and wait for the fixes, (3) fix the bugs yourself or (4) switch to another GUI. You can also push to speed up (2)... but you are already doing it. Ciao. -- Nicola ___ gtk-app-devel-list mailing list gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list
Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder
Il giorno mer 30 nov 2016 01:08:13 CET, Daniel Kasak ha scritto: I can confirm both these bugs ( crash copying the treeview, margins not rendered under altering properties ) under Linux. Actually the top and bottom margins are rendered immediately, but the left and right margins need you to alter them before they're rendered correctly. Sounds like a pretty simple fix for this one. No idea why the treeview is crashing for you - you've possibly gotten the XML file into an invalid state that Glade doesn't like. Anyway, you should enter these in bugzilla :) https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=774993 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=774994 for the copy/paste bug i rebuild glade commenting the lines of code the make it crash [...] ___ gtk-app-devel-list mailing list gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list
Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder
On 11/29/2016 04:28 PM, pozzugno wrote: > First of all, I'm using Glade 3.20.0 for Windows, installed through > Msys2 project. I don't know if Glade is more stable under Linux OS. In my opinion, GTK is definitely more stable under Linux than Windows. he truth is, 90% of GTK developers (or more) are working on the primary Linux X11 and Wayland backends. The Windows backend does see work from time to time, but from what I can tell it lags somewhat. However I can confirm your margin issues are definitely bugs: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=744095 https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741270 I guess the problem really is that the property name for the margins has changed from left and right to start and end, which is what the initial renderer is expecting. But somehow one part of glade hasn't caught up to the other part. I don't know when you can expect this bug to be fixed. Volunteer developers don't always fix bugs. I don't think your workflow is wrong, though I can't speak to the treeview thing. Glade 3.x does seem buggy, especially compared to Glade-3 for GTK2 which I never had any problems with. ___ gtk-app-devel-list mailing list gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list
Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder
I can confirm both these bugs ( crash copying the treeview, margins not rendered under altering properties ) under Linux. Actually the top and bottom margins are rendered immediately, but the left and right margins need you to alter them before they're rendered correctly. Sounds like a pretty simple fix for this one. No idea why the treeview is crashing for you - you've possibly gotten the XML file into an invalid state that Glade doesn't like. Anyway, you should enter these in bugzilla :) I don't drag + drop either - I just cut/copy/paste things around. Re: the treeview being rendered with 0 space ... you can set it to 'expand' and it should take up some space ... either that or set a minimum width. My normal workflow is to lay things out *roughly* in glade, then actually run the app and see what it looks like. This is partly because I'm writing database apps and generating lots of content based on dynamic data. It really doesn't take long to switch back to glade, tweak things, then re-open the app ( or window ) and see the results. Dan On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 10:28 AM, pozzugno wrote: > First of all, I'm using Glade 3.20.0 for Windows, installed through Msys2 > project. I don't know if Glade is more stable under Linux OS. > > When I open a file, non-null margins aren't rendered correctly. Take a look > at the screencast [1]. As soon as I change one margin (from 10 to 11, for > example), it is rendered correctly. > > Another problem, is very difficult to drag&drop one or more widgets (under a > sub-tree) between two places. When I click on a widget (or container) and > start moving, the mouse pointer disappears at all, so the target place is > very difficult to find (see [2]). During dragging movement, something > appears at the top-left corner of the window. > > It is very simple to have a crash when working with Treeviews. Open the > attached file, select the Treeview, press Ctrl+C (or select Copy) and... > puff! Other times Glade crashes when I try to create a column in the > Treeview. > > When I copy a box filled with widgets from one container to another > container, it seems the margins value aren't copied. I don't know if there > are other parameters that aren't copied. > > Daniel, you wrote you don't populate liststore associated to treeviews. I > agree with you, but if you don't populate the associated liststore (at list > the columns description), the treeview is rendered with zero space. Even if > you add columns in the treeview, you need to associated a compatible > liststore to see the real effect. > > Those are bugs related strictly to Glade, so this post could be off-topic > for this mailing list. However my goal wasn't to list all the bugs I found > in Glade, but to understand if my Gtk/Glade workflow/setup is wrong someway. > > > [1] > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1s7dNPGsJ3CQmpxTTVfZkZfdFE/view?usp=sharing > [2] > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1s7dNPGsJ3CQmpxTTVfZkZfdFE/view?usp=sharing > > > > Il 29/11/2016 23:08, Daniel Kasak ha scritto: >> >> Glade crashes sometimes, yes. It's been much better recently - 3.20 >> seems pretty stable for me. I don't edit liststores in glade at all, >> so I can't comment on that - I construct and populate them >> dynamically, and use glade just to place the treeview. I don't really >> have the other issues you're talking about. I can move things around >> freely without issues - cut and paste. I've written quite a few apps >> over the past 15 or so years, using glade and gtk ( 2 and 3 ) - most >> recently an ETL framework's UI - this is quite a complex beast. No pen >> and paper involved. No QT either. Maybe record a screencast of your >> issues so we can get an idea of what you're doing wrong. >> >> Dan >> >> On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 3:51 AM, Pozz Pozz wrote: >>> >>> I don't know why, but some weeks ago I selected Gtk as my next GUI >>> framework to learn. After some work, I have a very big issue: the >>> associated GUI builder Glade is not stable at all. >>> >>> Many times, when I work with Treeview and Liststore, Glade crashes. I >>> can't >>> press Ctrl+C to copy a sub-tree to another place. >>> The render is not good: margins aren't shown correctly after loading the >>> file. >>> It's impossible to move widgets from one place to another (maybe from one >>> box element to a grid element). >>> >>> I know I can design the GUI directly in the code, but it's a big effort >>> for >>> me. Usually my GUIs are full of widgets and I'd like to preview them. >>> >>> How do you create complex GUIs? Do you really use pen and paper and write >>> it directly in code? >>> >>> IMHO this is a very big limitation and I'm tempted to migrate to QT >>> libraries, even if I loose many working days. >>> ___ >>> gtk-app-devel-list mailing list >>> gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org >>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list > > > ___ gtk-app-devel-list mailing
Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder
First of all, I'm using Glade 3.20.0 for Windows, installed through Msys2 project. I don't know if Glade is more stable under Linux OS. When I open a file, non-null margins aren't rendered correctly. Take a look at the screencast [1]. As soon as I change one margin (from 10 to 11, for example), it is rendered correctly. Another problem, is very difficult to drag&drop one or more widgets (under a sub-tree) between two places. When I click on a widget (or container) and start moving, the mouse pointer disappears at all, so the target place is very difficult to find (see [2]). During dragging movement, something appears at the top-left corner of the window. It is very simple to have a crash when working with Treeviews. Open the attached file, select the Treeview, press Ctrl+C (or select Copy) and... puff! Other times Glade crashes when I try to create a column in the Treeview. When I copy a box filled with widgets from one container to another container, it seems the margins value aren't copied. I don't know if there are other parameters that aren't copied. Daniel, you wrote you don't populate liststore associated to treeviews. I agree with you, but if you don't populate the associated liststore (at list the columns description), the treeview is rendered with zero space. Even if you add columns in the treeview, you need to associated a compatible liststore to see the real effect. Those are bugs related strictly to Glade, so this post could be off-topic for this mailing list. However my goal wasn't to list all the bugs I found in Glade, but to understand if my Gtk/Glade workflow/setup is wrong someway. [1] https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1s7dNPGsJ3CQmpxTTVfZkZfdFE/view?usp=sharing [2] https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1s7dNPGsJ3CQmpxTTVfZkZfdFE/view?usp=sharing Il 29/11/2016 23:08, Daniel Kasak ha scritto: Glade crashes sometimes, yes. It's been much better recently - 3.20 seems pretty stable for me. I don't edit liststores in glade at all, so I can't comment on that - I construct and populate them dynamically, and use glade just to place the treeview. I don't really have the other issues you're talking about. I can move things around freely without issues - cut and paste. I've written quite a few apps over the past 15 or so years, using glade and gtk ( 2 and 3 ) - most recently an ETL framework's UI - this is quite a complex beast. No pen and paper involved. No QT either. Maybe record a screencast of your issues so we can get an idea of what you're doing wrong. Dan On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 3:51 AM, Pozz Pozz wrote: I don't know why, but some weeks ago I selected Gtk as my next GUI framework to learn. After some work, I have a very big issue: the associated GUI builder Glade is not stable at all. Many times, when I work with Treeview and Liststore, Glade crashes. I can't press Ctrl+C to copy a sub-tree to another place. The render is not good: margins aren't shown correctly after loading the file. It's impossible to move widgets from one place to another (maybe from one box element to a grid element). I know I can design the GUI directly in the code, but it's a big effort for me. Usually my GUIs are full of widgets and I'd like to preview them. How do you create complex GUIs? Do you really use pen and paper and write it directly in code? IMHO this is a very big limitation and I'm tempted to migrate to QT libraries, even if I loose many working days. ___ gtk-app-devel-list mailing list gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list ___ gtk-app-devel-list mailing list gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list
Re: The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder
Glade crashes sometimes, yes. It's been much better recently - 3.20 seems pretty stable for me. I don't edit liststores in glade at all, so I can't comment on that - I construct and populate them dynamically, and use glade just to place the treeview. I don't really have the other issues you're talking about. I can move things around freely without issues - cut and paste. I've written quite a few apps over the past 15 or so years, using glade and gtk ( 2 and 3 ) - most recently an ETL framework's UI - this is quite a complex beast. No pen and paper involved. No QT either. Maybe record a screencast of your issues so we can get an idea of what you're doing wrong. Dan On Wed, Nov 30, 2016 at 3:51 AM, Pozz Pozz wrote: > I don't know why, but some weeks ago I selected Gtk as my next GUI > framework to learn. After some work, I have a very big issue: the > associated GUI builder Glade is not stable at all. > > Many times, when I work with Treeview and Liststore, Glade crashes. I can't > press Ctrl+C to copy a sub-tree to another place. > The render is not good: margins aren't shown correctly after loading the > file. > It's impossible to move widgets from one place to another (maybe from one > box element to a grid element). > > I know I can design the GUI directly in the code, but it's a big effort for > me. Usually my GUIs are full of widgets and I'd like to preview them. > > How do you create complex GUIs? Do you really use pen and paper and write > it directly in code? > > IMHO this is a very big limitation and I'm tempted to migrate to QT > libraries, even if I loose many working days. > ___ > gtk-app-devel-list mailing list > gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list ___ gtk-app-devel-list mailing list gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list
The Big Gtk limitations: a reliable GUI builder
I don't know why, but some weeks ago I selected Gtk as my next GUI framework to learn. After some work, I have a very big issue: the associated GUI builder Glade is not stable at all. Many times, when I work with Treeview and Liststore, Glade crashes. I can't press Ctrl+C to copy a sub-tree to another place. The render is not good: margins aren't shown correctly after loading the file. It's impossible to move widgets from one place to another (maybe from one box element to a grid element). I know I can design the GUI directly in the code, but it's a big effort for me. Usually my GUIs are full of widgets and I'd like to preview them. How do you create complex GUIs? Do you really use pen and paper and write it directly in code? IMHO this is a very big limitation and I'm tempted to migrate to QT libraries, even if I loose many working days. ___ gtk-app-devel-list mailing list gtk-app-devel-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-app-devel-list
