[h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question
Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. Thanks, Annette M - Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question
On Sun, 5 Mar 2006, Kahlara wrote: Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. No web page, but ... I always wash my wool and linen first, and usually silk too. Wool and silk on cool. Linen on hot if it is undyed, usually warm if it is dyed. In fact, I may wash wool several times first. I want to get as much as possible of the shrinkage done before I cut it. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question
The dry cleaning instructions have as much to do with the dyes as anything (at least according to an old friend who runs one of his family's cleaning businesses). So you may have a normally washable fiber, but one colored with a dye that will turn fugitive with repeated washings. I treat my silks/linens/wools similar to the way that Robin does (in her email), although I think I'm a little more apt to be meaner to my wools, and have very little experience with finer silks. Most knowledgeable people that I've spoken to or learned from directly will say that pre-cutting fabric treatments (washing, drying, etc.) should mimic the treatments you'll give the finished garments. And I'd think that your initial treatment of your wool fabrics might vary a little depending on the weave structure and what type of garment you're planning on making. You may want to make a wool gown, for instance, that is fulled, obscuring the weave and producing a thicker, warmer fabric (easier with plain weaves, and woolen fabrics as distinct from worsted fabrics). You can then subject your wool to more abuse to full it. Or you may wish to keep your wool un-fulled, as with worsteds, which resist fulling anyways. For these, cool water or drycleaning would be best (and yes, that part's personal knowledge! I ruined a very nice $35/yd wool SCA cloak by washing it *after* I'd made it...what's left might make a very nice, very warm apron dress for a Norse outfit!) One additional pointWatch the decorations you put on your garments. Some stuff won't survive drycleaning (fake pearls being one example), so you might end up hand-washing stuff, or spot-cleaning it (which works really well if you're neat and tidy, and is pretty useless if you're a slob the way I am--I get anything dirty! ;o) If you choose to handwash items (either because of the fragility or other characteristics of the fabric, or because you've added trims, beads, whatnot that would not withstand regular cleaning or drycleaning), be careful that you don't agitate or squeeze or otherwise rub your garment layers together. Especially with garments made of wool. This can cause small-scale fulling and felting, which you might not want! (Of course, the opposite is also true--it's quite possible to deliberately felt a woolen item by hand. I've done it in my kitchen sink to a knitted-and-felted 16th century flat cap.) --Sue - Original Message - From: Lloyd Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 6:52 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question It has been my experience that much of the clothing bought today is labeled 'dry clean only' because of the combination of fibers and materials that are unknown and may not be washable to the same extent. We have become such a wash/dry society and expect everything to be instantly wearable. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question
Hi Anette, When i made my shirt in the fine linnen, i machine washed it before and used a high temperature. Then the linnen will shrink nicely and the shirt will never shrink any more. Because i have edged the shirt with fine cotton laces, i only handwash it now, but it works fine to pre wash the fabric. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Kahlara [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 2:10 PM Subject: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. Thanks, Annette M - Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question
My information is that dry cleaning helps preserve the fabric treatments used by the manufacturer- either fabric or clothing processes; so fabric of wool, linen, silk or combinations thereof, _can_ be washed, just be prepared for the size/hand/texture to change. (Personally I toss it all in the washer on cold and let the chips, er, scraps fall where they may.) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kahlara Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. Thanks, Annette M - Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question
One tip, especially for linen - take your yardage and zigzag the two raw edges together, into a loop, before you wash it. It's the quickest, simplest way to make sure you don't come out with a spaghetti bundle of frayed threads. Jean Kahlara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. Thanks, Annette M - Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question
If you really want to know about properties and care of various fabrics, get a college textiles textbook. It will have all the technical details. You could look for a used one on alibris or abebooks. I took a Textile class in graduate school. Everything you wanted to know about fabric! Great class. The text we used was _Textiles_ (eighth edition) by Sara J. Kadolph and Anna L. Langford. I'm sure there are lots of copies floating around in bookstores or on the internet. I think there is a new edition coming out this year. One of the things I learned in my studies was that legally, clothing manufacturers have to put a care label on their garments, and they have to test the garment in what ever method they recommend. For *most* garments, regardless of fiber content, the easiest and cheapest route is to label the garment Dry Clean Only. This way they are not responsible for the poor results if the garment is cleaned some other way, and they have to spend very little money researching other cleaning methods. Basically---dry clean only is the default setting on care labels. I've bought plenty of garments made from washable fabrics that had dry clean only in the label. I rarely dry clean *anything* but hand wash or machine wash on gentle instead. As for the original question-- Yes, if you prewash and pre-shrink material, you should be all set, as long as you use the same method to wash the finished garment. In other words--don't wash the yardage on gentle in cold water, then wash the garment in a regular cycle with warm or hot and expect the garment to be unchanged! ;-) Denise Iowa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question
Denise wrote: I took a Textile class in graduate school. Everything you wanted to know about fabric! Great class. The text we used was _Textiles_ (eighth edition) by Sara J. Kadolph and Anna L. Langford. I'm sure there are lots of copies floating around in bookstores or on the internet. I think there is a new edition coming out this year. Kadolph's book is now in its 9th edition. That is expensive, but previous edition can be picked up for only a few dollars, and would be well worth it. Kim ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes
Bjarne, I don't know much about the period, but is there a difference between how close the garments are to the body? I'm thinking of a man's waistcoat and coat compared to a woman's dress, I would imagine a man's shirt is a more substantial garment than a woman's shift, and therefore offers more protection to the outer layers. Alternatively, does the silk help the waistcoat and coat move over the heavier linen of the shirt and the outer layer of the waistcoat, while women are not wearing layers that move against each other to the same extent? Jean Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Hi. When i went to Frankfurt recently, we disgussed this strange thing that all of us has noticed. All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all ladies garments lined with linnen? Is there any natural explantation of this? Also Mauritia told me, when working on the wedding suit of Christian VII, that his suit was lined with linnen, very unusuall. I told her, that perhaps it was because of the insanity of the king ( he was suffering of skitsofrenia), and that perhaps he used to sweat exceptionally much because of this? I have no idea of that, but back to the difference of the sexes, why do you think they did this? Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question
Ah, but many of the products for washing and cleaning have changed! This will have some small effect on the textiles being treated...from my own experience. Kathleen - Original Message - From: Kim Baird [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Historical Costume' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:46 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question If you really want to know about properties and care of various fabrics, get a college textiles textbook. It will have all the technical details. You could look for a used one on alibris or abebooks. You don't need the most current, up-to-date book, because you are looking for natural fiber info, which hasn't changed much. Try a college library if you don't want to buy. Kim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kahlara Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 7:11 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question Can someone point me in the right direction for info/resources on best washing methods fof various natural fabrics, especially linen and wool. I know that many of my off the rack 'modern' clothes specify dry cleaning, but if I were to wash my linen and wool yardage first (cool water of course), would that make the finished garment washable by the same method as well without too much risk of shrinkage? It would be so much simpler. Thanks, Annette M - Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver
In a message dated 3/4/2006 1:02:31 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm Absolutely wonderful, hope you had as good a time as it looked like.. Not my time frame so not very knowledgable about the costumes but they seemed very grand and well done to me. I have been watching the list to see how the trip went and it sounds like you haad a fantastic time. take care theresa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver
Is this Baroque or Roccoco time frame? I would like to make a Mother Ginger costume with the same shape as the yellow and pink gown. Does anyone know the year span for this gown? I'll need to buy a pattern if at all possible. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver In a message dated 3/4/2006 1:02:31 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm Absolutely wonderful, hope you had as good a time as it looked like.. Not my time frame so not very knowledgable about the costumes but they seemed very grand and well done to me. I have been watching the list to see how the trip went and it sounds like you haad a fantastic time. take care theresa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes
In a message dated 3/5/2006 11:25:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all ladies garments lined with linnen? Is there any natural explantation of this? I don't think that is necessarily true. I'm sure there are men's coats and waistcoats lined with linen. However, my two cents' worth--a man's shirt covered him more completely than a woman's shift, I think, so he had a fuller under layer of linen next to his skin. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes
Jean Waddie wrote: Alternatively, does the silk help the waistcoat and coat move over the heavier linen of the shirt and the outer layer of the waistcoat, while women are not wearing layers that move against each other to the same extent? You may have something there... it also occurs to me that men wore their clothing open, and the lining showed. Women's gowns and jackets are worn closed, so maybe the lining doesn't need to be as fancy. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Soirée d´hiver
Forgot to add, that when i get more time, ill make the pictures clickable for bigger ones. And did you notice the petrol blue suit? Mauritia found a provider of real silk velvet in the quality for 18th century. 100 % silk. It was gorgeous to look at. Bjarne Leif og Bjarne Drews www.my-drewscostumes.dk http://home0.inet.tele.dk/drewscph/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] abuse of fabrics (aka care and washing) question
no problem at all with washing pure linen - reacts a lot like an untreated cotton - as long as you pre shrink it (washing machine, hottest setting) it'll be pretty much fine in normal washes. obviously depends on the looseness of the weave, etc, (if a very loose weave, it may need shrinking twice), and may change some of the fabric properties, but I don't usually have a problem. washing is fine for a wool that's not heavily felted, or a superfine (one that doesn't have a very smooth, shiny, or napped surface). I'd do the same for wool as for linen - hot setting (not necessarily the hottest this time, due to the (often) greater shrinkage). the reason you can't wash (or steam / steam press for that matter), felted wools and superfines is that heat and moisture are used during the finishing processes. I've actually used steam to 'un-face' scraps of cloth from hainsworths for making medieval livery badges (or so that I can rip out the thread to do embroidery that has to match the garment cloth exactly). the resulting fabric looks and feels completely different. behaves differently too. anyway the end result being either that the wonderful finish that was the reason for buying the cloth in the first place is gone, or (depending on the precise type of cloth), the life of the fabric can be reduced by as much as 25 - 40 % (ish). sometimes you get both results. same applies to tumble drying, obviously, as you're introducing heat to cloth that's already moist! and of course, in the case of overcoatings etc, the water resistant properties will usually be either reduced, or just completely eliminated. debs (ps it really irritates me when customers wash heavily felted wools (hainsworths again) when I've told them not to, and they then wonder why it shrinks and loses its lustre - duh!) but as I said ordinary wool should be fine as long as you don't later wash it a hotter setting that the original wash. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver
I've read all that I can find on the gown. I have that book ordered so it's on its way. I should have checked your site more. The costumes/garb are wonderful. The photos look as if someone opened a door to the past. Totally a cottage weekend for a group of friends. - Original Message - From: Bjarne og Leif Drews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver Hi Becky, Well it is not baroque, and not quite rococo neither, its the time from 1770-80, also called Louix XVI, or neo classical style. For a pattern, well its a little difficult. If you meen a ready made pattern, ready to cut, i dont know, but if you know a little about pattern making, you could use Jean Hunnisets book Costumes for Screen and Stage. The 2nd vollume. In this you will find both a corset, pannier (hoop frame) and a robe a la francaise like the pink dress. Bjarne - Original Message - From: Becky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver Is this Baroque or Roccoco time frame? I would like to make a Mother Ginger costume with the same shape as the yellow and pink gown. Does anyone know the year span for this gown? I'll need to buy a pattern if at all possible. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver In a message dated 3/4/2006 1:02:31 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm Absolutely wonderful, hope you had as good a time as it looked like.. Not my time frame so not very knowledgable about the costumes but they seemed very grand and well done to me. I have been watching the list to see how the trip went and it sounds like you haad a fantastic time. take care theresa ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes
But the woman would have both a shift and the stays to protect, most of the bodice has the stays behind. Only the shoulder pieces perhaps is not protected. Could it simply be, that men was feeling a bigger rank, than a woman, and therefore was using silk in stead of linen. I know there are mens garments lined with linnen, but most aristocracy fashion is lined with silk. Bjarne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes In a message dated 3/5/2006 11:25:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all ladies garments lined with linnen? Is there any natural explantation of this? I don't think that is necessarily true. I'm sure there are men's coats and waistcoats lined with linen. However, my two cents' worth--a man's shirt covered him more completely than a woman's shift, I think, so he had a fuller under layer of linen next to his skin. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] soiré d´hiver
Here i send you a link for some pictures of the event. http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/soiredhiver.htm I want to thank the whole family for their warmth and generousity. I got many lovely memories from that week end. I am in endless gratitute to them It all looks so wonderful. How absolutely wonderful to be able to attend an event like this:) Thank you for sharing the event with us:) michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.2/274 - Release Date: 3/03/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] difference of the sexes
Maybe it has to do with linen breathing better? Those of us going thru menopause would understand and appreciate a cooler outfit. Sharon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Diana Habra Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 11:06 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes Hi. When i went to Frankfurt recently, we disgussed this strange thing that all of us has noticed. All gentlements garments in 18th century is lined with silk, but all ladies garments lined with linnen? Is there any natural explantation of this? Bjarne, Maybe smells come out of silk easier? In my experience, men and women sweat the same but male sweat is...um...stronger smelling. So maybe linen holds smells longer than silk? Or it was easier to clean? Diana www.RenaissanceFabrics.net Everything for the Costumer Become the change you want to see in the world. --Ghandi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] difference of the sexes
At 06:14 06/03/2006, you wrote: Maybe it has to do with linen breathing better? Those of us going thru menopause would understand and appreciate a cooler outfit. Sharon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Diana Habra Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 11:06 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] difference of the sexes Early in the 18th century there are so many layers of horsehair, crin, and linen stiffening the silk lining was probably for comfort, but would not much be seen, except maybe inside the front opening at the chest. Later, in the middle of the century the lining can be seen on the back skirts, from in front, without the man ever taking off or opening his coat. It's just the way it is made. Many late 18th century coats are actually worn fastened only with a couple of hooks on the chest, allowing the fronts to fall open and reveal the lining. Facing the fronts with fashion fabric is not usually an option until very late in the century, when coats with tails become popular. Early the following century the tails are almost always fully lined in fashion fabric, and the fronts are faced back as far as the underarm with fashion fabric. The insides are tend to be left unlined except for some linen reinforcement across the shoulders. As someone else said, the inside of a woman's bodice would not be seen, so there would be no need to waste a comparatively expensive fabric on something unseen. Just my 2 penn'orth. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
