RE: [h-cost] period dye color references
I have always heard that it is the flower or the whole plant that is used in dyeing not just the root. (Though there is a site online that says you can get a red from the root). What color is made, I don't know as I have not gotten into natural dyeing. One person told me that she achieved an almost saffron color reddish yellow with the flowers. And another said she used Alum and got yellow. So maybe the mordant might have an effect in the color. Another said that the leaves with salt made red. Found this site of someones experiment: http://www.sewanee.edu/chem/chem&art/Detail_Pages/Projects_2003/Lawrence/htm l/Lawrence.html The root of the dandelion is good for the liver and has been used in cases of cirrhosis of the liver. It is a diuretic which helps to flush the liver and kidney's. The leaves when picked young is good to add to a salad. The leaves also contain A,B,C, and D vitamins, plus potassium salts, iron and other minerals. The flowers are edible as well and pretty up a salad. The root is also an anti-rheumatic and a mild laxative. If you choose to try dandelion in your diet, please learn the hows and wheres of harvesting the plant. Like don't eat of a dandelion growing very near a highway of road. De -Original Message- ..as far as any of the more experienced dyers could tell, get reds from dandelion root. Pixel/Margaret ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat"
> I'm reading a diary of a young woman in Virginia in 1787, and she uses the > term "great coat" for an article of clothing. It is clear from the context > that this is NOT the many-caped, overcoat type garment. I know that "coat" > could refer to a petticoat, but any ideas as to this particular usage? Would it be possible to read this in context? It may help us understand the context better as well. Have you tried the 18thC woman list on yahoo? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/18cWoman/ michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.4/282 - Release Date: 15/03/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat"
In a message dated 3/16/2006 8:51:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: When Struensee, a german doctor was excecuted in Copenhagen, the newspapers wrote that he wore a "Viltskur" wich is the danish name of a greatcoat made of fur. His fur coat was made of wolf. It was angle lenght and had a big collar attached to it according to the print they published of the episode. The german doctor had first his right hand cut off, then his head. He had an affair with our queen. Thanks Bjarne, but in the context this is definitely a "dress" of some kind. One of several references--"We have retired to dress for dinner. Shall I tell you our dresses? I hear you say "Yes." Mrs. P. wears a brocade; Cousin M. her pink Great-Coat, and I my pink." However, your story reminded me that I read a historical novel years ago about this queen. According to that author, her husband was, ahem, not that interested in women, so she turned elsewhere for solace. It was so long ago that I don't remember the title or author, but I remember it was about a queen of Denmark, and that her lover was a learned man. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
On Thursday 16 March 2006 6:24 pm, Suzi Clarke wrote: [snip] > >E House wrote: > >>Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > >> > >> > >> > >>"The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) > >>ISBN: ? > > Ninya Mikhaila has only just received her own copy of the book. They > will be shipped as soon as the rest arrive. Good. I have my certificate that the received my payment; just waiting for the book -- Cathy Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Physics is like sex; sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."--Richard Feynman ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat"
In a message dated 3/16/2006 3:57:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perhaps it just means the outer most coat, or a long coatwhether it has multiple capes,or is even heavy wool, or no. Perhaps a long light coat for fall or spring or riding or traveling. "Great" referring to its length No, this is definitely what we would call a dress of some kind--one of her friends is putting one on for dinner. I'm only familiar with the definition as an overcoat, and that is why I'm so confused. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
Try 1-800-201-7575. I've gotten a real, live person at this number. Good luck! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lavolta Press Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 1:59 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Considering it's almost impossible to get hold of a live person at Amazon, the "Your Account" page is probably your only recourse. Note that these days if you choose the free shipping option, Amazon often holds the entire order until _all_ items are available, which can be weeks or even a couple of months. I'm not worrying about my order for the _Tudor Tailor_, and wouldn't until around mid April at the very least. First they have to get the books from the printer--March is not over yet--then yours has to get to you, presumably via media mail. In fact I seldom worry about these things at all--nagging someone is not going to get either their book printer or media mail to hurry up. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com E House wrote: > - Original Message - From: "Lavolta Press" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> When you log into Amazon you can go to a "Your Account" page, where >> you can look at all your orders and see the exact status of each one. > > > The problem is that someone else ordered it for me. =} I _think_ > she's > checked that, but I'll make sure. > > -E House > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
I ordered "Tudor Tailor" and have not received it yet. Sharon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of E House Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 12:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? The Geoff Egan book was pre-ordered in early December (back when it was on sale through Amazon for ~$20 instead of $36!); their site says it's been available since Jan 28 and ships in 2-4 weeks; it's been over 6 weeks and nothing. I'm getting impatient for my Christmas present, already! I'm trying to decide if there's any point in contacting Amazon about it--if others have pre-ordered it and not gotten it, I'll try to be patient. I'm definitely jumping the gun on the second; it's not 'late' unlike the first, as their website says it should hit the shops in mid-March, but I want to play with it. =} -E House (Patience is a virtue? Really? Are you suure?) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
I ordered "Material culture in London in an age of transition: Tudor and Stuart period finds c. 1450 - c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan on 10/18/05 from DBBC "The Tutor Tailor" is due out in April. I ordered mine 1/30/06 directly from the author. I have not received either as yet. Beth At 03:06 PM 3/16/2006, you wrote: Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:41:28 -0600 From: "E House" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? The Geoff Egan book was pre-ordered in early December (back when it was on sale through Amazon for ~$20 instead of $36!); their site says it's been available since Jan 28 and ships in 2-4 weeks; it's been over 6 weeks and nothing. I'm getting impatient for my Christmas present, already! I'm trying to decide if there's any point in contacting Amazon about it--if others have pre-ordered it and not gotten it, I'll try to be patient. I'm definitely jumping the gun on the second; it's not 'late' unlike the first, as their website says it should hit the shops in mid-March, but I want to play with it. =} -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: h-costume Digest, Vol 5, Issue 250
I believe the word "factio" originally referred to the chariot-racing teams, and then the supporters of each team banded together for social welfare etc, and the modern meaning of "faction" as a political grouping grew out of that. Jean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Ooh! I was just reading about this! The Roman hippodrome had four stables which each had a different color associated with it: red, green, blue, and white. They were like different teams, so maybe the filmmakers assumed people would have dressed in their teams' colors just like modern sports fans (and I wouldn't be surprised if they were right). Those four colors were also associated with the four political factions that served as labor unions/guilds/political machines for the city of Rome, and later Constantinople, so alternatively, they could have been implying that those people were supporters of those factions. I haven't found out yet if the stables were associated with the factions, but in Constantinople, the emperor Justinian was nearly overthrown by an alliance of the four factions at the end of a chariot race in the hippodrome, which seems to have been used by the factions to whip the crowd into a suitably revolutionary frenzy. I hope this helps! Tea Rose --- Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 06:07:04 -0700 From: WickedFrau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [h-cost] Toga trim in Gladiator.. I was rewatching Gladiators this weekend and wondered if there were some color system to the toga trims. In some scenes there seemed to be groups of black trim, red and I think blueanyone aware of any historical information for this? Thanks, Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Jean Waddie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
At 20:49 16/03/2006, you wrote: I ordered the Tudor Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March 2006" and it is still March... E House wrote: Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? Ninya Mikhaila has only just received her own copy of the book. They will be shipped as soon as the rest arrive. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure
Hi Cin, The print i talk about is in the italian fashion history book by Mila Contini, if you would like, i can scan the print for you and send you by email. I am not sertan about what you want, a book about doublets? If there was on i would surely like to know :-) The cut of mens clothes has a doublet from the time! Bjarne - Original Message - From: "Cin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "h-cost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure Caravaggio's "The Fortune Teller" now in the Louvre. Both my copy & the original are mustard gold velvet with the chocolate >>brown racing stripes and those huge balloon sleeves. At the cuff, which cant be seen well in my Louvre catalog, is the closure on the outside if the wrist, inside of the wrist or no closure at all? >>Is there a lapped vent as in 18th c manswear or is it just abutted >>as in the 16th c menswear. Most of the doublets I've seen seem to be a sort of cross between the two: the closure laps, but it's not quite the fully developed vent of the later coats. It's pretty hard to explain, but easy to do and seems to work well. Melusine Abraham Bossé the fashion illustrator has made a print of La Gallerie du Pallais showing ready made cuffs and collars exhibitted in a gallanterie shop. The Cuffs are open, and i believe they were pinned in place. Bjarne Thanks to you both for speedy replies! I'll search for M Bossé's illustrations. Can either of you show me a picture or point me to a extant doublet, book, painting or drawing? Naomi Tarrant doesnt show it, either tho she goes into great detail about other parts of 1630s construction. G. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Glove pic
Wow, that is an awesome painting! I've forgotten how fabulous the old masters, especially Rembrandt were. Most of the time when folks post a painting for reference I just look at the article of clothing or details that are being referenced, but this one just knocked my socks off as a work of art. And I love the outfit. If I can't get my FI interested in having one, I might just have to make something like it for myself! :-) Annette M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Message: 1 Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:29:26 + From: "Kate M Bunting" Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic I can only think of Rembrandt's portrait of Jan Six. http://www.artchive.com/artchive/R/rembrandt/jan_six.jpg.html has links to 2 articles which discuss the significance of the gloves in this picture. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15/03/2006 12:48 >>> What is the reason that several Dutch portraits have the person wearing one glove and holding the other? Most of them are on the right hand but the one of Valois one is on the left. If nothing else, I've been introduced to the massive amounts of portraits from the references in this discussion board. - Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: semi-OT: waiting for books
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, Onaree Berard wrote: > Could you give the url to David Brown Co for those of us in the US? http://www.oxbowbooks.com/home.cfm You'll get a screen asking you whether you want the US or UK site (and pricing). The Egan book is here: http://www.oxbowbooks.com/bookinfo.cfm/ID/44480 --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, Cynthia J Ley wrote: > Boydell & Brewer (David Brown Co., in the US) had it out last month. David Brown is the US branch of the UK's Oxbow booksellers; it is not the same as the publisher Boydell & Brewer, though Brown/Oxbow sells many of Boydell's books (including mine). --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
Considering it's almost impossible to get hold of a live person at Amazon, the "Your Account" page is probably your only recourse. Note that these days if you choose the free shipping option, Amazon often holds the entire order until _all_ items are available, which can be weeks or even a couple of months. I'm not worrying about my order for the _Tudor Tailor_, and wouldn't until around mid April at the very least. First they have to get the books from the printer--March is not over yet--then yours has to get to you, presumably via media mail. In fact I seldom worry about these things at all--nagging someone is not going to get either their book printer or media mail to hurry up. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com E House wrote: - Original Message - From: "Lavolta Press" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> When you log into Amazon you can go to a "Your Account" page, where you can look at all your orders and see the exact status of each one. The problem is that someone else ordered it for me. =} I _think_ she's checked that, but I'll make sure. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
- Original Message - From: "Lavolta Press" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> When you log into Amazon you can go to a "Your Account" page, where you can look at all your orders and see the exact status of each one. The problem is that someone else ordered it for me. =} I _think_ she's checked that, but I'll make sure. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: semi-OT: waiting for books
Could you give the url to David Brown Co for those of us in the US? Onaree On 3/16/06, Cynthia J Ley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Boydell & Brewer (David Brown Co., in the US) had it out last month. > > Arlys -- Proud List Mom of Irish_Crochet_Lovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Irish_Crochet_Lovers/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure
>> Caravaggio's "The Fortune Teller" now in the Louvre. Both my >>copy & the original are mustard gold velvet with the chocolate >>brown racing stripes and those huge balloon sleeves. At the >>cuff, which cant be seen well in my Louvre catalog, is the closure >>on the outside if the wrist, inside of the wrist or no closure at all? >>Is there a lapped vent as in 18th c manswear or is it just abutted >>as in the 16th c menswear. >Most of the doublets I've seen seem to be a sort of cross between the two: >the closure laps, but it's not quite the fully developed vent of the later >coats. It's pretty hard to explain, but easy to do and seems to work well. >Melusine >Abraham Bossé the fashion illustrator has made a print of La Gallerie du >Pallais showing ready made cuffs and collars exhibitted in a gallanterie >shop. The Cuffs are open, and i believe they were pinned in place. >Bjarne Thanks to you both for speedy replies! I'll search for M Bossé's illustrations. Can either of you show me a picture or point me to a extant doublet, book, painting or drawing? Naomi Tarrant doesnt show it, either tho she goes into great detail about other parts of 1630s construction. G. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
Boydell & Brewer (David Brown Co., in the US) had it out last month. Arlys On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 15:32:17 -0600 (CST) Robin Netherton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, E House wrote: > > > Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > > > > "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and > Stuart > > Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites > in > > Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X > > This is out. Our reviewer already has her copy. I don't know when > orders > were shipped to purchasers, but if you ordered through an > intermediary, it > may take longer. > > --Robin > > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
E House wrote: Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X Yes. "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? No. The Geoff Egan book was pre-ordered in early December (back when it was on sale through Amazon for ~$20 instead of $36!); their site says it's been available since Jan 28 and ships in 2-4 weeks; it's been over 6 weeks and nothing. I'm getting impatient for my Christmas present, already! I'm trying to decide if there's any point in contacting Amazon about it When you log into Amazon you can go to a "Your Account" page, where you can look at all your orders and see the exact status of each one. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
At 12:41 PM 3/16/2006, you wrote: Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? The Geoff Egan book was pre-ordered in early December (back when it was on sale through Amazon for ~$20 instead of $36!); their site says it's been available since Jan 28 and ships in 2-4 weeks; it's been over 6 weeks and nothing. I'm getting impatient for my Christmas present, already! I'm trying to decide if there's any point in contacting Amazon about it--if others have pre-ordered it and not gotten it, I'll try to be patient. I'm definitely jumping the gun on the second; it's not 'late' unlike the first, as their website says it should hit the shops in mid-March, but I want to play with it. =} -E House (Patience is a virtue? Really? Are you suure?) I ordered "The Tudor Tailor" and I'm eagerly awaiting its delivery. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat"
When Struensee, a german doctor was excecuted in Copenhagen, the newspapers wrote that he wore a "Viltskur" wich is the danish name of a greatcoat made of fur. His fur coat was made of wolf. It was angle lenght and had a big collar attached to it according to the print they published of the episode. The german doctor had first his right hand cut off, then his head. He had an affair with our queen. Bjarne - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:38 PM Subject: [h-cost] "Great Coat" Dear List, I'm reading a diary of a young woman in Virginia in 1787, and she uses the term "great coat" for an article of clothing. It is clear from the context that this is NOT the many-caped, overcoat type garment. I know that "coat" could refer to a petticoat, but any ideas as to this particular usage? Thanks. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, E House wrote: > Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? > > "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart > Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in > Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X This is out. Our reviewer already has her copy. I don't know when orders were shipped to purchasers, but if you ordered through an intermediary, it may take longer. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat"
In a message dated 3/16/2006 3:39:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dear List, I'm reading a diary of a young woman in Virginia in 1787, and she uses the term "great coat" for an article of clothing. It is clear from the context that this is NOT the many-caped, overcoat type garment. I know that "coat" could refer to a petticoat, but any ideas as to this particular usage? Maybe she just thinks her coat is...great. "That's a great coat!" I knowI'm no help at all Perhaps it just means the outer most coat, or a long coatwhether it has multiple capes,or is even heavy wool, or no. Perhaps a long light coat for fall or spring or riding or traveling. "Great" referring to its length. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] "Great Coat"
Dear Ann Was, Greatcoat is just a term of a winter used garment, worn outside of the jacket. It could be cut just like a jacket, but would be a little bigger, so that the jacket could be inside it. Bjarne - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:38 PM Subject: [h-cost] "Great Coat" Dear List, I'm reading a diary of a young woman in Virginia in 1787, and she uses the term "great coat" for an article of clothing. It is clear from the context that this is NOT the many-caped, overcoat type garment. I know that "coat" could refer to a petticoat, but any ideas as to this particular usage? Thanks. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure
Brilliant notice of mine. Sorry, i thoaght it was the cuffs you were asking about, not the sleaves... Bjarne - Original Message - From: "Bjarne og Leif Drews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure Hi Cynthia, Abraham Bossé the fashion illustrator has made a print of La Gallerie du Pallais showing ready made cuffs and collars exhibitted in a gallanterie shop. The Cuffs are open, and i believe they were pinned in place. Bjarne - Original Message - From: "Cin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "h-cost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 8:42 PM Subject: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure Ladies & Gents, A quick question, I'm copying the doublet worn by the dashing gent in Caravaggio's "The Fortune Teller" now in the Louvre. Both my copy & the original are mustard gold velvet with the chocolate brown racing stripes and those huge balloon sleeves. At the cuff, which cant be seen well in my Louvre catalog, is the closure on the outside if the wrist, inside of the wrist or no closure at all? Is there a lapped vent as in 18th c manswear or is it just abutted as in the 16th c menswear. Norah Waugh doesnt go into this detail. Thanks for the help, --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
I ordered the Tudor Tailor. Still waiting on it. They said "March 2006" and it is still March... E House wrote: Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] list wonky
By the way, I've noticed a lot of my posts coming through wy out of order--apologies to anyone who's gotten confused by the seeming non-sequitors! -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] clothing from the crusades
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My husband is early period, around 1196-1220 time frame. I'm looking for period references for clothing for a middle class, or nobility (other than monarchs) from that era. While I have found MANY references to the armor and surcoats they wore, I haven't found a lot of references to everyday clothing. Can someone point me in the right direction for that time period? Gwenhwyfar You're going to encourage us to get that website up yet. ;-) To preface, my SO and I do early 13th c. English (in the SCA, but we're authenticity nuts). A middle-class man would wear braies, hose, a shirt, a belted tunic/cotte, some variety of leather turnshoe, and most probably a linen coif on his head. A nobleman would wear the same, except not necessarily the coif, and he might also wear another layer over his cotte. One of the things that distinguishes a nobleman in the early 13th c. is the length of his skirts--a man who works for a living, whether he be free or serf, wears a short cotte that may or may not be slit at the crotch. It's usually about knee-length when belted up. A nobleman's cotte is long, about ankle length, and slit to the crotch (ostensibly for riding). The sherte and braies are linen, the cotte is usually wool. From my research, a nobleman's cotte would also be lined with either linen or silk. The hose are also usually wool. [A moment of pedantry: "Early period" usually refers to Migration Age, what used to be called the Dark Ages. 1200 is considered (roughly) to be the end of the Romanesque era and the beginning of early Gothic at least as far as art history types are concerned.] Marc Carlson's website, to which I do not have the URL handy, has useful info on actual garments. Heather Rose Jones has an excellent article on the St. Louis shirt, which is as far as we know a 13th c. man's shirt: http://www.heatherrosejones.com/stlouisshirt/index.html There's www.thirteenthcentury.com for info on hose and braies. Nudge me privately and I'll see about getting the most recent info packet into an electronic form and possibly up where people can actually see it. Margaret (for whom it is 1205 until Saturday) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] semi-OT: waiting for books
Has anyone order and actually received either of these two books? "Material Culture in London in an Age of Transititon: Tudor and Stuart Period Finds c. 1450-c. 1700 from Excavations at Riverside Sites in Southwark" by Geoff Egan ISBN: 190199239X "The Tudor Tailor" by Ninya Mikhaila et al (pre-ordered from website) ISBN: ? The Geoff Egan book was pre-ordered in early December (back when it was on sale through Amazon for ~$20 instead of $36!); their site says it's been available since Jan 28 and ships in 2-4 weeks; it's been over 6 weeks and nothing. I'm getting impatient for my Christmas present, already! I'm trying to decide if there's any point in contacting Amazon about it--if others have pre-ordered it and not gotten it, I'll try to be patient. I'm definitely jumping the gun on the second; it's not 'late' unlike the first, as their website says it should hit the shops in mid-March, but I want to play with it. =} -E House (Patience is a virtue? Really? Are you suure?) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] "Great Coat"
Dear List, I'm reading a diary of a young woman in Virginia in 1787, and she uses the term "great coat" for an article of clothing. It is clear from the context that this is NOT the many-caped, overcoat type garment. I know that "coat" could refer to a petticoat, but any ideas as to this particular usage? Thanks. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure
Hi Cynthia, Abraham Bossé the fashion illustrator has made a print of La Gallerie du Pallais showing ready made cuffs and collars exhibitted in a gallanterie shop. The Cuffs are open, and i believe they were pinned in place. Bjarne - Original Message - From: "Cin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "h-cost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 8:42 PM Subject: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure Ladies & Gents, A quick question, I'm copying the doublet worn by the dashing gent in Caravaggio's "The Fortune Teller" now in the Louvre. Both my copy & the original are mustard gold velvet with the chocolate brown racing stripes and those huge balloon sleeves. At the cuff, which cant be seen well in my Louvre catalog, is the closure on the outside if the wrist, inside of the wrist or no closure at all? Is there a lapped vent as in 18th c manswear or is it just abutted as in the 16th c menswear. Norah Waugh doesnt go into this detail. Thanks for the help, --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure
Ladies & Gents, A quick question, I'm copying the doublet worn by the dashing gent in Caravaggio's "The Fortune Teller" now in the Louvre. Both my copy & the original are mustard gold velvet with the chocolate brown racing stripes and those huge balloon sleeves. At the cuff, which cant be seen well in my Louvre catalog, is the closure on the outside if the wrist, inside of the wrist or no closure at all? Is there a lapped vent as in 18th c manswear or is it just abutted as in the 16th c menswear. Norah Waugh doesnt go into this detail. Thanks for the help, --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] Most of the doublets I've seen seem to be a sort of cross between the two: the closure laps, but it's not quite the fully developed vent of the later coats. It's pretty hard to explain, but easy to do and seems to work well. Melusine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] clothing from the crusades
My husband is early period, around 1196-1220 time frame. I'm looking for period references for clothing for a middle class, or nobility (other than monarchs) from that era. While I have found MANY references to the armor and surcoats they wore, I haven't found a lot of references to everyday clothing. Can someone point me in the right direction for that time period? Gwenhwyfar mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 17th c doublet cuff closure
Ladies & Gents, A quick question, I'm copying the doublet worn by the dashing gent in Caravaggio's "The Fortune Teller" now in the Louvre. Both my copy & the original are mustard gold velvet with the chocolate brown racing stripes and those huge balloon sleeves. At the cuff, which cant be seen well in my Louvre catalog, is the closure on the outside if the wrist, inside of the wrist or no closure at all? Is there a lapped vent as in 18th c manswear or is it just abutted as in the 16th c menswear. Norah Waugh doesnt go into this detail. Thanks for the help, --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] questions about 1410 costumes
Greetings-- Many period dyes make strong/deep colors, and these would have been preferred. Perhaps there was something specific to the Teutonic knights that required sober hues? The black cross on white surcote seems to have been their "uniform." De: I mostly was wondering about the regular male folk and not the knights. And I'm wondering what "sober" means. ;-) The missing link here may be that the Teutonic Knights, like the Templars and the Hospitallers, were a crusading Order--a religious Order. The "uniform" mentioned earlier on was in fact part of the habit of the Knights who were part of the Order. There were also priests who were members of the Order, and later, "serving brothers". According to this site - http://www.chivalricorders.org/vatican/teutonic.htm - the main difference between the dress of the knights and the serving brothers was that the knights wore a blue mantle and the serving brothers a grey one, and the serving brothers used a three-armed cross. So the whole "sober colour" thing may be indicative of the fact that these are fighting religious under holy vows with a set habit (although it's known that the knights in other similar orders didn't wear the habit on all occasions, although they were supposed to do so). Susan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
re: [h-cost] period dye color references
>In reference roughly to 12th - 14th centuries. I have been eyeing a lovely piece of >magenta wool. My herbal book says this color can be attained using dandelion - >the whole plant with no mordant. > 1. are there any historical references for this color? I know that dandelion > flowers produce a yellow dye. >2. no mordant implies that it would not be color fast. > 3. are there any historical references to a magenta like color being produced > with some other dye stuff? >Or any suggestions where I might look for more information? On natural dyestuffs see "The Art & Craft of Natural Dyeing" Jim Liles. He's a Rev War re-enactor & teaches/taught Chem at some southern University (U of Tenn?). You wont find history here, but you will find good process & technique. His photo on the back book cover has him in a snappy magenta (called Turkey Red) tunic. Your perception is most likely correct. I'd go with a mordant, too. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: bows and flowers Re: [h-cost] Glove pic
Quoting michaela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Jerusha said Also neat! Those could be bows, or flowers, or butterflies, or . Atcually I have seen the book this was scanned from (I recongise a lot of the pictures shown on the site from a couple of books I've got my paws on) and they were definitely not butterflies;) The centre is too button like. I don't think they are flowers either, seeing as here are four loops and flowers tend towards prime numbers for petals. Given the four lobed bows on the glove portrait I'd be more inclined to see these as bows. botanist alert! While monocots have floral parts in 3s or multiples thereof (think lilies -- 6 parts), Dicots have floral parts in 4s or 5s typically (or multiples thereof. Families that I can think of at the moment that are mostly 4-parted flowers include the Mustard Family, the Olive family, The Hamamelids (Witch Hazel), the Cornaceae (Dogwoods), the Evening Primroses, and the Plantains. Nature's never exact -- my Monocot study plants have Asian members with 5 petals, or 7, or 11 ... botanist mode off I'm not sure how pbvious it is in the online image, but in my copy you can see they alternating centres are quite different. The pearls are just pearls with no obvious mountings and the "balck" are set in gold, like the red jewels are in the lobes. I wasn't saying that they weren't bows, just the overall shape *could* lend itself to other things as well -- like butterflies, flowers, etc. Jerusha - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] questions about 1410 costumes
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006, otsisto wrote: > I have learned to take Wikipedia with a grain of salt. On one of the > lists someone mentioned that he had found flaws with it as anyone can > leave info on a subject. Be it w/scholarly research or not. Oh, of course, it's not a reliable source for formal research, as it is constantly mutable and relies on the collective wisdom of its users. But very good for quick overviews of things like historical events, scientific principles, natural history, lots of other stuff. In this case, it answered the question "what did the Teutonic Knights and the Lithuanians have to do with each other in 1410?" sufficiently for my purposes, which was "They had a battle." Whether it was the greatest battle of the middle ages -- well, that's where the opinion creeps in, and I don't put much stock into that assessment. > Since she then describes the "undertunic" as being undyed linen, it > sounds like she's using that term for the underwear (which would be a > white linen shirt/tunic), and "outer tunic" for the main body garment. > > De: I was thinking more in the line of groin cover type of underwear. > :) >From what I know of SCA-level re-enactment, costume guidelines like this are generally going to leave unseen underwear as a personal choice, and 90% of the guys are going to wear modern boxers or briefs anyway, depending on their preference. (Um, no, I haven't actually done research to support that 90%...) Now, for strict re-enactment, the costume guidelines are more likely to want to specify the nature of the braies or other underthings worn at the particular time at issue, and the participants are going to want to have it right even if no one ever knows. > Were the leg hosen sewn together by this time? No idea what was happening in Eastern Europe; I don't even know exactly when they started getting sewn together in the West. There are others on this list who have made a study of these details. But my impression is that there's no need to sew together your leg hosen unless you're wearing a tunic short enough to show your crotch, and in 1410 that's dependent on class, age, and region. Fashionable young men in Paris are not representative of Teutonic knights or Lithuanian anythings. > > > outer garments would have been made of wool and have been of sober hues. > Many period dyes make strong/deep colors, and these would have been > preferred. Perhaps there was something specific to the Teutonic knights > that required sober hues? The black cross on white surcote seems to have > been their "uniform." > > De: I mostly was wondering about the regular male folk and not the > knights. And I'm wondering what "sober" means. ;-) > been expected to wear a headcovering as a norm (exceptions being > queens, young girls, brides, and even those not all the time). I > wouldn't be at all surprised if headcoverings were the default for > Eastern European women, and they certainly will make the overall look > more "period." > > De: "Paganism" was still around in Lithuania and Samogitia so I do not > think that covering the head was for religious reasons but I could see > it as a scalp protector from the sun. I wouldn't think religious reasons are the prime mover in any case. Headcoverings have been the norm for both men and women in Europe for most of the Middle Ages and a good chunk beyond. There are many reasons for it, and sun protection is just one. Bear in mind that women might have visible hair in 1410, but it is generally *dressed* -- e.g. braided and/or put up, with or without veil or ornament -- not hanging loose. If you are outside, you want a covering against sun and also dirt. > De: I had thought that it was 3 layers. Chemise and a support under > dress and then the form fitting dress. Is this not the standard? Number of layers and degree of fitting varies by class, climate, and circumstances (e.g. formal or informal). The basic standard is chemise (undyed linen) plus main body garment (usually of wool) -- call it an underdress or a day-dress or cote or cotte or kirtle or whatever your preferred expert likes (but don't call it a "cotehardie" if you're around me, please). This dress, in 1410, is typically fitted for middle-class and upper-class women, probably not very fitted for the lowest classes (unless you're modeling for the Limbourg Brothers). By this period, it seems it is probably lined more often than not, even for those of modest means. Higher class and/or cooler weather and/or more formal circumstances, add a layer or more. The overgown may be fitted (as in the "cotehardie" or fitted overdress) or loose (as in the houppelande) or any of several variations/combinations on these. Next over that might be a mantle or cloak, again with variations depending on class etc. All of this is generally true for most of Europe in 1410, and very likely for Lithuania, or possibly there are regional variations I don't know about. --Robin _
bows and flowers Re: [h-cost] Glove pic
> > Poot, I was wrong, they are actually daisys: > > http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/fmlac10526_10b.jpg > > Neat picture, though. I love flowers:) > > http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Various_7.htm > > The Princess Royal, daughter of James I, VI and Anne, 1603. (National > > Maritime Museum)She's all in white with the red bows. I'm sure I've seen > > gold ones on someone though... but I can't find it... > Also neat! Those could be bows, or flowers, or butterflies, or . Atcually I have seen the book this was scanned from (I recongise a lot of the pictures shown on the site from a couple of books I've got my paws on) and they were definitely not butterflies;) The centre is too button like. I don't think they are flowers either, seeing as here are four loops and flowers tend towards prime numbers for petals. Given the four lobed bows on the glove portrait I'd be more inclined to see these as bows. I'm not sure how pbvious it is in the online image, but in my copy you can see they alternating centres are quite different. The pearls are just pearls with no obvious mountings and the "balck" are set in gold, like the red jewels are in the lobes. It also looks like there are pearls going up the centre, graduating in size from large to small. She has a pearl girdle with red and "black" stones. The skirt has a line down centre front that could be a crease or a join. I think the top edge of her bodice is just at the tops of the jewels, and there is a wide expanse of cmock I think... there looks like faint red lines of embroidery micahela http://glittersweet.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.4/282 - Release Date: 15/03/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: monk underwear
On Mar 15, 2006, at 4:41 AM, Gail & Scott Finke wrote: In latin: (for those who don't trust translations :-) Femoralia hi qui in via diriguntur de vestario accipiant, quae revertentes lota ibi restituant. Et cucullae et tunicae sint aliquanto a solio quas habent modice meliores; quas exeuntes in via accipiant de vestario et revertentes restituant. And in English: Brothers going on a journey should get underclothing from the wardrobe. On their return they are to wash it and give it back. Their cowls and tunics, too, ought to be somewhat better than those they ordinarily wear. Let them get these from the wardrobe before departing, and on returning put them back. Wow! And I thought "Wear clean underwear without holes in case you get in a car crash and have to go to the hospital" was a NEW sensibility! There's an even better example in Walter Map's "De Nugis Curialium" where he tells a story of a monk whose order disdained underpants as being too luxurious, so that when he took a tumble in the street he exposed his ... parts for all and sundry to see. Walter gives the moral of the story as something roughly equivalent to "sometimes discretion is the better part of asceticism". Heather -- Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT: self employment tax question
Some general principles to keep in mind on this. The organization is trying to cut costs and increase flexibility. (This is a truism: companies are always trying to cut costs and increase flexibility.) When you're calculating how much to ask for, add up _all_ the ways in which the organization was spending money on your position: not simply salary and social-security payments, but any benefits you received (large or small), plus the clerical work that supported your employment, the upkeep on any equipment used, and so forth. For example, a lot of people are mentioning the self-employment tax, but as an independent contractor you're also going to be spending _time_ doing extra paperwork (and quite likely, extra research) to deal with legal and tax things you didn't have to worry about as an employee. So do the calculation from the other side, too: calculate what it will "cost" you (in time or money) to cover all the benefits, overhead, upkeep, and paperwork that you didn't have to deal with as an employee. No matter _what_ they pay you as a contractor's fee, they've already "won" in terms of flexibility -- i.e., they can decide at a moment's notice not to give you any more work. They can pay for exactly and only the work they decide they want without having to keep you on payroll when things are slow. And that means it's not at all unreasonable to expect them to pay for that flexibility in cash. So don't feel you're being greedy by setting a high price on your time. In fact, try not to spend much time comparing what you're asking for as a contractor with what you were receiving as a salary: it's apples and oranges. This, of course, assumes that they see what you're providing as a specialized skill, rather than figuring they can either get someone to do piecework at sweatshop wages or pull the Tom Sawyer trick and convince someone to do it "for fun". Heather -- Heather Rose Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.heatherrosejones.com LJ:hrj ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] period dye color references
On Wed, 15 Mar 2006, Kahlara wrote: In reference roughly to 12th - 14th centuries. I have been eyeing a lovely piece of magenta wool. My herbal book says this color can be attained using dandelion - the whole plant with no mordant. 1. are there any historical references for this color? I know that dandelion flowers produce a yellow dye. 2. no mordant implies that it would not be color fast. 3. are there any historical references to a magenta like color being produced with some other dye stuff? Or any suggestions where I might look for more information? Annette M (the fuschia/magenta/hot pink range is my favorite color for clothing!) Your herbal book is perpetuating a fallacy. We were discussing this on the natural dyes list (or the SCA natural dyes list, I don't remember which) and the general consensus from a number of people who've tried it was that there's no way to get magenta from dandelions. You can get lovely pinks and reds from brazilwood, from kermes/cochineal, from madder root if you're careful (if you overcook it, it turns brown/orange), from orchil, and from lady's bedstraw root. But you can't, as far as any of the more experienced dyers could tell, get reds from dandelion root. OTOH, it apparently can be roasted and used as a coffee substitute. I've gotten magenta on wool with cochineal, but I'm not sure how fast it is, or whether it was a modern mordant or not--my sample cards are at home, of course. I know we got a dark magenta color on white Icelandic fleece by leaving it in the dyebath for a very long time, but lighter colors I think were mordanted. I'll look when I get a chance. Pixel/Margaret ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Update on Theatre Museum
I received the following from the Deputy Director of the V and A regarding the Theatre Museum. "Thank you for your email to the Director. The press coverage is misleading, because the Trustees of the V&A have not yet made a decision. One option is to close the building, but others would include a different mix of activities in the building. The Theatre Museum has had no success in raising the capital money for redevelopment of its current premises (which it rents, not owns) and the feedback from potential public and private donors is that the funds needed to transform the Theatre Museum's building in Covent Garden would not repay the investment given the limitations of the building. Given the serious limitations of the building we are looking at the feasibility of achieving greater appreciation of the collections without continuing with the building. If we had no Covent Garden building we would be looking at: 1. having a permanent display about the collections at the main building in South Kensington 2. running education programmes in our new Education Centre 3. large and smaller scale exhibitions at the main museum building 4. more touring exhibitions (in the UK and abroad) 5. more partnerships with major theatre organisations in the UK 6. Much greater investment in digitising the collection and providing web access and education material. Visits to the Theatre Museum website have been growing rapidly. It is worth remembering that the displays at Covent Garden represent a very tiny fraction of the collections. The core study collection moved in 2005 to Blythe House (our storage and research centre in west london) where it was united with the reserve collection - This move has been very successful and the study room there provides much better access. Interestingly, most of the emails we have had so far are mainly concerned about the preservation of the archives and we are also very concerned to increase access (eg. through extended opening hours at Blythe House and greater web access to the collections). Ian Blatchford Deputy Director" Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] finished belt pouch
At 06:25 AM 3/15/2006, you wrote: Hi, With permission of the commisioner, i have posted pics of the finished medieval belt pouch with lion rampants at: http://www.my-drewscostumes.dk/beltpouch.htm Bjarne Nice job, as usual, Bjarne. Joan Jurancich [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] OT: self employment tax question
In a message dated 3/15/2006 2:29:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: May I ask where the 15% increase comes in? The 7.65% Social Security/Medicare employee portion has already been withheld from her paycheck, so that will not make a difference in her net pay. You are correct; however, it can be different when someone else withholds it and when YOU have to make the payments quarterly. One has to be sure to have that money in the bank when those quarterly payments come due. Ann Wass ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Glove pic
And a handsome tuxedo cat it is too! Lalah, Never give up, Never surrender --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Danielle Nunn-Weinberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Historical Costume <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 02:38:00 -0600 Ah ha, Suzi, you've got it! It is Henry Wriothesley, the third Earl of Southampton. You can find his portrait in the portrait section of the http://www.boughtonhouse.org.uk/ page or I think this will take you directly there: http://www.boughtonhouse.org.uk/htm/gallery2/paintings/earlofsoton.htm An interesting piece of trivia about this portrait...it is supposedly the first English portrait painted with a cat in it. Cheers, Danielle At 05:42 PM 3/14/2006, you wrote: >At 23:01 14/03/2006, you wrote: >>That is very sheek! :-) >>What would you use for the small bows? >>I would recomend you to use silk ribbon of the kind used for ribbon >>work, its so soft and delicate and would make very nice bows. >> >>Bjarne >> >>- Original Message - From: "Kathy Page" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: "Historical Costume List" >>Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 9:09 PM >>Subject: [h-cost] Glove pic >> >> >>>Okay, I have everything fixed. This is the drawing I >>>was talking about: >>> >>>http://ca.geocities.com/absynthe30/avatars/hand.jpg >>> >>>Look familiar to anyone? > > >This looks like a redrawing from a painting of someone who was >imprisoned in the Tower of London, and was painted with a cat. I >copied these gloves for the Tower some years ago. I will look out >the research and post as soon as I can. > >Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _ Netscape. Just the Net You Need. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Glove pic
There's a larger image here: http://www.tudor-portraits.com/HenryWriothesley.jpg -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] starching
My mom was visiting me recently and showed me some tricks for starching fancy doilies that might help. She said use Stayflo liquid starch, blue bottle. Make sure to cut the starch in half with water. Soak the fabric or doilies in the solution. I pinned the doilies to a foam core board with T-pins. This stretched it out really nice. For up and down ruffles, stuff with wax paper. Let it dry for 24 hours. You will be amazed at how the shape is in the fabric/doilies. One of the doilies that had a lot of fancy ruffles is still standing perfectly after three months. I can pick it up and shake the dust off it, and it keeps its shape. And it still looks so delicate. Its worth a try! BTW, the Stayflo comes out of the bottle blue, but when the starch dries it is clear. She said that this is how her mother starched doilies. Penny E. Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery, www.costumegallery.com Costume Classroom, www.costumeclassroom.com Costume Research Library, www.costumelibrary.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re:Glove pic
> I keep thinking I've seen this glove before, but I > have seen similar > ones in the portrait of Lady Mary Neville and her > Son Gregory > Fiennes, 10th Baron Dacre (1559) I had looked at this one too, but couldn't get a close enough look at it, till I tripped on this site: http://www.employees.org/~cathy/gloves_body.html LINEN gloves?!? Cool!! If I only had the time to construct a pair, I could let the intended wearer loose on the gauntlets - she is an avid blackwork broiderer. also look at figure 5 on this page, that is a darned close match if you rotate the hand to vertical. > Elizabeth Cornwallis, Lady Kytson (1573) > them) but I have a feeling > in the redrawings some features may have changed. Looking at your examples and those above, I think this could be a composite drawing of various elements. Excellent sources, though. I think this is why this drawing rang bells - it's a little of everything. > It's very easy to show the glove style in German > dress, very easy indeed. This would be good, since it is being paired with the Nuremburg kirtle and loose gown in PoF. :-) > That is very sheek! :-) Thanks. I liked them the moment I saw that drawing. :-)I was originally going to do goldworked gauntlets, but the more I took into account the style of the intended wearer, I felt this was more her pace. > I would recomend you to use silk ribbon of the kind > used for ribbon work, That is exactly what I plan on using. I purchased some white vintage kid gloves and will tack on the wrist decoration with russet and olive ribbons. I currently have it in a garment weight leather, butit's coming off rather heavy looking and totally overpowering the delicacy of the kid and the silk ribbons. I have also lined the leather with an orange/red shot silk to make the slashes pop. It looks good, but again, I need to lighten the leather up. I have some paper thin sueded leather in white that might work. I'm just reluctant to cut into it as it had other plans to be corset binding. I'll see what I can come up with. I wonder if I could just do it with some white taffeta and the silk ribbons instead? That would match the sheen of the kid and the delicacy of the decoration. hMust go rummaging for scraps! Kathy Ermine, a lion rampant tail nowed gules charged on the shoulder with a rose Or barbed, seeded, slipped and leaved vert Its never too late to be who you might have been. -George Eliot For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it. -Ivan Panin __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Fwd: Theatre Museum
I received the following letter in reply to my e-mail to the director. I think it makes the whole situation quite clear. Thank you for your email to the Director. The press coverage is misleading, because the Trustees of the V&A have not yet made a decision. One option is to close the building, but others would include a different mix of activities in the building. The Theatre Museum has had no success in raising the capital money for redevelopment of its current premises (which it rents, not owns) and the feedback from potential public and private donors is that the funds needed to transform the Theatre Museum's building in Covent Garden would not repay the investment given the limitations of the building. Given the serious limitations of the building we are looking at the feasibility of achieving greater appreciation of the collections without continuing with the building. If we had no Covent Garden building we would be looking at: 1. having a permanent display about the collections at the main building in South Kensington 2. running education programmes in our new Education Centre 3. large and smaller scale exhibitions at the main museum building 4. more touring exhibitions (in the UK and abroad) 5. more partnerships with major theatre organisations in the UK 6. Much greater investment in digitising the collection and providing web access and education material. Visits to the Theatre Museum website have been growing rapidly. It is worth remembering that the displays at Covent Garden represent a very tiny fraction of the collections. The core study collection moved in 2005 to Blythe House (our storage and research centre in west london) where it was united with the reserve collection - This move has been very successful and the study room there provides much better access. Interestingly, most of the emails we have had so far are mainly concerned about the preservation of the archives and we are also very concerned to increase access (eg. through extended opening hours at Blythe House and greater web access to the collections). Ian Blatchford Deputy Director Suzi Anna Piaggi Fashion-ology Sponsored by Topshop 2 Feb ? 23 April 2006 at V&A South Kensington Book now on 0870 906 3883 or www.vam.ac.uk Unleashing Britain: 10 Years that Shaped the Nation 1955-1964 30 November 2005 ? 30 June 2007 at V&A Theatre Museum Admission free V&A Museum of Childhood temporarily closed for exciting redevelopment Reopening autumn 2006. See the V&A website for details Keep in touch ? visit www.vam.ac.uk and sign up for our regular e-newsletter - The information contained in this message is confidential and intended only for the individual named above. If you are not the intended recipient, or responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or disclosure of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by telephone on 020 7942 2000. This message has been scanned for viruses by BlackSpider MailControl - www.blackspider.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Issue 230? Equestrian, et al
:-) As in h-costume Digest Vol 5, Issue 230, similar to issue 255, which I didn't get either. I know this is just a glitch in the system, as sometimes I miss one, or they come out of order, for example I may still get 255 it will just arrive after 256 (the one I'm responding to). Usually I just bear with it, but sometimes, as with 230, when there is a topic I am particularly interested in or am waiting on a response to a question, as with 255. I might miss something and end up repeating/restating the same thing someone else has already said (and probably much worse than they did) or missing out on a really great answer. Annette M [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2006 18:22:49 -0700 From: WickedFrau Subject: EQ-Re: [h-cost] Issue 230? Equestrian, et al What is issue 230? Whad' I miss? Kahlara wrote: > > It has been a busy week, but finally able to get back to the costume list. Am > I the only one that did not recieve issue 230? > > Attended a class on equestrian barding this weekend, and one of the things > that came up in discussion was the aside vs. astride issue. > - Yahoo! Travel Find great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] questions about 1410 costumes
I finally received a reply. She said that the sober colors come from a 1295 manuscript on the Teutonic knights attire and thought that anyone working or being around the Knights would also wear sober colors. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] questions about 1410 costumes
De: I have understood that even in this period (1410) that there were bright colors worn, not just sober even among the lower class. Robin Netherton wrote: Many period dyes make strong/deep colors, and these would have been preferred. Perhaps there was something specific to the Teutonic knights that required sober hues? The black cross on white surcote seems to have been their "uniform." Not my period of expertise either, but it could be that the organizer is trying for an easy way to make sure that people in the group avoid the bright modern colors that are not possible (or that are possible but very fugitive) with medieval dyes. Melanie Schuessler http://www.faucet.net/costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Glove pic
The bows looks to me to be made of coral pearls? Bjarne - Original Message - From: "Susan B. Farmer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:44 PM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Glove pic Quoting michaela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > My first instinct was Spanish as well, due to how the hand is > displayed (the > hand is vertical and holding either a glove or a handkerchief) and > those > bows (Germans weren't quite as fond of bows as the Spanish were... I found a > lovely child's portrait on bildindex where she is wearing jewellery > bows > even! Mind you the English are also fond of them) but I have a feeling > in the redrawings some features may have changed. OOOh, cool! Do you have a URL or an accession number for that child's portrait? Poot, I was wrong, they are actually daisys: http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/fmlac10526_10b.jpg Neat picture, though. The discussion about it was that there was a girl with bow shaped jewls but that was actually Maria Stuart in a white gown with bows down the front made from red jewels. I got the two mixed up in my memory;) http://www.tudor-portraits.com/Various_7.htm The Princess Royal, daughter of James I, VI and Anne, 1603. (National Maritime Museum)She's all in white with the red bows. I'm sure I've seen gold ones on someone though... but I can't find it... Also neat! Those could be bows, or flowers, or butterflies, or . Susan (sorry, the biologist is creeping out .) - Susan Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] University of Tennessee Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Glove pic
I can only think of Rembrandt's portrait of Jan Six. http://www.artchive.com/artchive/R/rembrandt/jan_six.jpg.html has links to 2 articles which discuss the significance of the gloves in this picture. Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15/03/2006 12:48 >>> What is the reason that several Dutch portraits have the person wearing one glove and holding the other? Most of them are on the right hand but the one of Valois one is on the left. If nothing else, I've been introduced to the massive amounts of portraits from the references in this discussion board. > > __ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] period dye color references
I believe magenta was one of the aniline dyes invented in the later 19th century and was named after a battle in Napoleon III's reign - but I assume the poster was referring to a natural colour approaching that shade. >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15/03/2006 21:49 >>> I always thought that magenta was named after a battle in the Napoleonic wars but I could be way wrong! Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ Kate Bunting Librarian and 17th century reenactor ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
