RE: [h-cost] Re: color
Are there colors if there's nothing to see them? No oxygen before plants. (Theology aside - and back to the tree falling in the forest making or not making a sound) Patty From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Gail Scott Finke Sent: Mon 1/29/2007 7:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Re: color Jean wrote: I know there are linguistic studies that aim to show the cognitive importance, if you like, of different colours by the order in which languages develop them. You have to work on words for colours that are not linked to the description of an object - orange or aubergine, for example, just say the colour of that thing. But all languages have words for light and dark, black and white. I'm pretty sure the next one is red, then green and blue interchangeably. So if a language has a word for either green or blue, it must also have a word for red - if it has no word for red, it can't have a word for green or blue. I seem to remember it goes a bit random after that. So green may have been the first colour to appear, but red is the most important one to identify and tell your friends about! Actually wouldn't there be volcanoes before plants? ;-) Jean Linguistic studies aside, the woman was talking about which color was created (or evolved) first and she said it was green because of plants. No color before plants. Even if you don't think of black and white as colors, I thought that yellow must have come first (sunlight). And of course as you say red and orange -- fire, volcanoes, etc. But she was adamant on green. Gail ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re: color
Wouldn't that be hemoglobin? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 1/29/2007 10:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Re: color In a message dated 1/29/2007 7:39:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: first and she said it was green because of plants I believe the earliest form of chlorophyll was red. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] early 18th century cravats
Dear Dawn. If you have a nice lace, you can make a short cravat wrapped arround a necktie or stock. They used to love needle laces in those days, especially venetian needlelaces, wich are rather thick and stiff. Sew the lace to a piece of linnen, same width as your lace and then catch it over a longer necktie. Do you understand my meaning? Bjarne . - Original Message - From: Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 8:16 PM Subject: [h-cost] early 18th century cravats I'm trying to figure out the dimensions for a late 17th or early 18th century man's cravat. I've got plenty of sources that say they tied around the neck in various ways, but not much else. Does anyone know how wide and how long the cloth is? Would it be wide enough to fold one or more times, or would it be worn as a single thickness? Did they wrap from the back and tie in front like a scarf, or were they wrapped across the throat in front, around the back, and then tied in front? Does anyone know of any photos of extant cravats other than the one in _Cut of Men's Clothes_? (And I think that one is just the lace ends, anyway, it looks far too short to tie around anything, but there's no indication of size or scale, so who can tell.) Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] To Tab or not to Tab?
I like the tabs too. At first I thought I preferred the cabbage tabs, but on reflection the matching tabs seem better, although a little dark because of the fabric design. Yes, fussy, but in a really interesting--you could almost say witty--way! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -Original Message- From: Teena Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Jan 29, 2007 10:38 PM To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] To Tab or not to Tab? I don't respond on here very often but I personally like it better with the tabs. Teena R. - Original Message From: Saragrace Knauf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: h-costume [EMAIL PROTECTED]; TheRenaissanceTailor [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 10:29:30 AM Subject: [h-cost] To Tab or not to Tab? I'm not sure what I should do here. This bodice http://tinyurl.com/343la7 is sort of a practice bodice. It is made from flocked fake silk taffeta (barf - but it was the closest fabric I have found to give the right look.) I found it at the last minute about a week ago at Jo Annes - it just happened to match the silk taffeta of the skirt almost exactly. I am in the process of having another embroidered to match the embroidery in the actual picture. http://tinyurl.com/3bdc27 Anyyyway - the question: I may have to use the practice bodice if the other doesn't work out or is not done in time for the presentation. The other bodice will require a peplum of sorts to which all the leaves are attached. I did the same here and then experimented with no tabs, all the tabs in the same pattern, and finally tabs made from cabbage - random pieces of fabric. Part of me wants to leave it without tabs, because it looks fussy to me. But many of the bodices had these whacky shaped tabs, and the original obviously did too..sighdecisions, decisions. What is your vote? Thanks for your opinions! Sg ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Christmas gift exchange
jordana robinson wrote: i haven't received anything yet, but i'm hoping it is there when i go back to work next tuesday! -jordana __ Jordana, Did you get your package? Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Recent book: 18th c. calico trade
My librarian friend alerted me to this: Vicente, Marta V. Clothing the Spanish Empire : families and the calico trade in the early modern Atlantic world / Marta V. Vicente. (The Americas in the early modern Atlantic world) Palgrave Macmillan. 1403972265. 9781403972262. R2-623549. 2006. US. USD65.00 http://www.palgrave-usa.com/catalog/product.aspx?isbn=1403972265 --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Christmas gift exchange
yes, i did eventually get it. i'm sorry that i forgot to update the list. thanks for organizing the swap. On 1/30/07, Dawn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jordana robinson wrote: i haven't received anything yet, but i'm hoping it is there when i go back to work next tuesday! -jordana __ Jordana, Did you get your package? Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] question about robe anglaise.
Hi, Thanks for your feedbacks about this. As there are examples with both, ill stick to the center back seam after all. That is the easyest to do, as i have 2 embroidered pieces each 140 cm wide. Thanks again. Bjarne - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:22 PM Subject: [h-cost] question about robe anglaise. Hi Bjarne! I've recently done a c1776 robe anglaise, which is ~20 years before your dress, so take my references with a grain of salt. From a brief flip though my documentation binder, it seems very common to have side-back seams in the skirt - which fall approximately mid-way between the side seam and the CB area. (Center back seams for the skirt were unusual, but I did find one example.) It is my conjecture that the standard skirt construction was 5 fabric widths: 2 for the front and side and one full width for the center back. Here are the useful sources I had: 1) The closed robe in _Fitting and Proper_ has 2 side/side-back seams on each side of the skirt between the CB and the seam where on an open robe the front opening would start. Note, this dress, unlike yours, has the CB of the bodice in one piece with the CB skirt panel. 2) The open robe anglaise on page 24 of _Fitting and Proper_ also has 2 seams in the skirt between the CF opening and the CB. Again, note that this dress, unlike yours, has the CB of the bodice in one piece with the CB skirt panel. 3) 1770-85 Polonaise gown on page 37 of _Patterns of Fashion_ - has separate CB bodice and skirt panels. This is the only instance I found with a CB seam in the skirt. 4) None of the robe anglaise with separate back bodice and back skirt panels (for the 1776 era) in _Costume in Detail_ have center back seams - Bradfield's seam line notations imply that their construction is the same 5 panel skirt construction described above. 5) The 1775-85 dress on page 40 of _Patterns of Fashion_ also has the 5 panel construction without CB skirt seam. Hope this helps, -s ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] early 18th century cravats
Its a little late, but Late Georgian Costume: The tailors Friendly Instructor (1822) By J Wyatt and The Art of Tying the Cravat (1828) By H Le Blanc is available from Lacis if you're interested. I make my linen cravats 55 long and 10 wide. Cheers, Aylwen Garden http://www.regencyreproductions.com http://www.earthlydelights.com.au On 30/01/2007, at 2:42 PM, David S. Mallinak wrote: Dawn wrote: I'm trying to figure out the dimensions for a late 17th or early 18th century man's cravat. I've got plenty of sources that say they tied around the neck in various ways, but not much else. Does anyone know how wide and how long the cloth is? Would it be wide enough to fold one or more times, or would it be worn as a single thickness? Did they wrap from the back and tie in front like a scarf, or were they wrapped across the throat in front, around the back, and then tied in front? Does anyone know of any photos of extant cravats other than the one in _Cut of Men's Clothes_? (And I think that one is just the lace ends, anyway, it looks far too short to tie around anything, but there's no indication of size or scale, so who can tell.) It has been a long time since I read it, but its: Collars, Stocks, and Cravat by Doriece Colle Rodale Press, Inc. 1972 72840 005 7 Your humble and obedient servant, David S Mallinak ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] early 18th century cravats
At 21:03 30/01/2007, you wrote: Its a little late, but Late Georgian Costume: The tailors Friendly Instructor (1822) By J Wyatt and The Art of Tying the Cravat (1828) By H Le Blanc is available from Lacis if you're interested. I make my linen cravats 55 long and 10 wide. Wrong period - not even Regency by the time these books were published. I have them too - not really suitable for early 18th century at all. Suzi I'm trying to figure out the dimensions for a late 17th or early 18th century man's cravat. I've got plenty of sources that say they tied around the neck in various ways, but not much else. Does anyone know how wide and how long the cloth is? Would it be wide enough to fold one or more times, or would it be worn as a single thickness? Did they wrap from the back and tie in front like a scarf, or were they wrapped across the throat in front, around the back, and then tied in front? Does anyone know of any photos of extant cravats other than the one in _Cut of Men's Clothes_? (And I think that one is just the lace ends, anyway, it looks far too short to tie around anything, but there's no indication of size or scale, so who can tell.) It has been a long time since I read it, but its: Collars, Stocks, and Cravat by Doriece Colle Rodale Press, Inc. 1972 72840 005 7 Your humble and obedient servant, David S Mallinak ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: color
On Jan 29, 2007, at 7:21 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/29/2007 7:39:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: first and she said it was green because of plants I believe the earliest form of chlorophyll was red. The amusing thing in this philosophical exercise is that color _categories_ don't have any objective existence -- they are an epiphenomenon of the physiological structure of light-perceiving organs. To clarify: light wavelengths have objective existence, but the concept that a particular range of wavelengths, albeit with fuzzy boundaries, constitutes the color red or green is a function of the particular sensitivities of retinal cells. Before the existence of eyes and brains, there were no color categories to precede or follow each other. Heather ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] speaking of lace
This story on traditional handmade Polish lace caught my eye. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6312429.stm Artisans who used to create gowns and altar cloths for customers such as the late Pope now craft G-strings and other lingerie for sale all over the world. They say the underwear is quicker to make and easier to sell than traditional goods such as tablecloths. I'm sorry to see the traditional demand is down, but glad to know they can find a modern market rather than let the craft die. Dawn ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] re: to tab or not to tab
I don't know what is supposed to look stupid here. I like the tabs. And I like the ones that don't match better than the ones that do -- the matchy ones look costumey to me and the random ones look more real. Oh well, I may be tacky but I guess I'm period! Gail Finke ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
