Re: [h-cost] slops for women?
Just an update... I've been perusing through some Google books, and found this one. A Cyclopaedia of Costume Or Dictionary of Dress... By James Robinson Planché I think you can click this and view it: http://books.google.com/books?id=f419oz-NWDgCrview=1 Page 469 includes an entry on Slops, which gives more illumination of the word with regards to women's mourning clothing. That slops were not breeches as late as the reign of Henry VII., is evident from the ordinances issued by his mother, Margaret Countess of Richmond, for the reformation of apparell for great estates of women in the tyme of mourninge, wherein the Queen's gentlewomen are directed to wear sloppes, which are explained to mean mourning cassocks for ladies and gentlewomen, not open before. In the first year of Henry VIII, also, according to Hall, upon Shrove Sunday, after a goodly banket in the Parliament Chamber at Westminster, a masque was presented in which, amongst many other fancifully attired personages (the King being one), there entered six ladies, two of whom were in garments of crymosyne and purpull, made like long slops, embroidered and fretted with golde after the antique fascion ; and over the slop was a shorte garment of cloth of golde, scant to the knee, fascioned like a tabard, c. But though they were not breeches,... There's a lot more, but that gets the drift with regards to mourning clothing. Kimiko Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for tudor/elizabethan references
If you're planning to cover up to 1600 and not just 1500-1600, you might consider expanding your talk to include discussion of 14th and 15th-century images of saints. Robin Netherton is the expert here, but I do a little version of Jeff Foxworthy's you might be a redneck if that I call they might be a saint if in my Costume History class. Images of saints are particularly common in these centuries in Italy and the Low Countries, though they appear elsewhere as well. They tend to be wearing fanciful and/or imaginary clothing, and for some reason modern people looking for research always seem to zoom in on them. The key is that often saints are depicted holding or standing on something odd. They might be holding a severed head, a plate of breasts, an eyeball on a stick, a spiked wheel, a tower, etc. Or these elements might be somewhere else in the painting. They often relate to the way in which the saint was martyred and were meant to identify the subject to the medieval viewer. Another giveaway is of course a halo or a set of wings--biblical characters and angels can almost never be trusted for clothing research. Saints are also often depicted holding a strange green feather-looking thing, which is meant to be a palm frond. I tell my students to check out the caption first then start looking for the odd props. In addition to saints and biblical folk, mythological and classical people depicted in medieval and Renaissance paintings are often not trustworthy for research. If the person is meant to represent Honesty or some other abstract concept, they are probably not wearing real clothing either. I encourage you to work this information in, because much of the bad research that I see depicts saints, biblical, mythological, or classical people. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for tudor/elizabethan references
On Feb 21, 2008, at 4:51 AM, Melanie Schuessler wrote: If you're planning to cover up to 1600 and not just 1500-1600, you might consider expanding your talk to include discussion of 14th and 15th-century images of saints. Robin Netherton is the expert here, but I do a little version of Jeff Foxworthy's you might be a redneck if that I call they might be a saint if in my Costume History class. Images of saints are particularly common in these centuries in Italy and the Low Countries, though they appear elsewhere as well. They tend to be wearing fanciful and/or imaginary clothing, and for some reason modern people looking for research always seem to zoom in on them. For instance, Robin is fond of pointing out that elaborately decorated or jeweled bands along the hemline are usually confined to queens, saints, angels and other people who don't have to worry about getting their hems dirty. ;) OChris Laning [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Glowing review of *Medieval Clothing Textiles 2* ( TMR 08.02.19 )
I thought people would enjoy this review of the second volume of MCT. (It's an annual: volume 4 is due out later this spring). The reviewer is clearly delighted with it and says some nice things about how the study of clothing and textiles illuminates other aspects of medieval life. Well, duh! We knew that! Congrats, Robin and Gale! From: The Medieval Review [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: February 20, 2008 9:30:46 AM PST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: TMR 08.02.19 Netherton and Owen-Crocker, Medieval Clothing (Ball) Netherton, Robin, and Gale R. Owen-Crocker, eds. iMedieval Clothing and Textiles/i, vol. 2. Woodbridge: Boydell Press, 2006. $42.20. ISBN: 1843832038, ISBN-13: 9781843832034. Reviewed by Jennifer L. Ball Brooklyn College [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unlike many volumes of collected papers stemming from conferences, iMedieval Clothing and Textiles/i makes no attempt at cohesion; rather, in this second volume in the journal, it compiles essays that use a breadth of approaches to the subject of dress and textiles. This is the forte of this journal and several of the essays can be used as case studies in methods to be applied to one's own research. As a vehicle for dress and textile studies, rather than simply a publication of DISTAFF sessions from the Leeds and Kalamazoo conferences [1], the quality of papers is notably high and will be of interest to others beyond medieval historians of textiles and dress. The eight essays are, with few exceptions, truly interdisciplinary encompassing the fields of archaeology, paleography, sociology, art history, literature and economics, and have a broad scope chronologically (seventh-seventeenth century). Geographically speaking, however, this collection is limited to Western Europe with essays about Ireland, England, Italy, France and Germany. Due to the constraints of the short review, I list the contents here by author and abbreviated subject, but speak of the articles thematically rather than writing a complete review of each of the articles. The essays arranged chronologically are: Whitfield on dress in Irish Wooing of Becfhola; Owen-Crocker on the Bayeux Tapestry; Wright on textiles in French Romance; Farmer on Paris' textile markets; Jaster on English sumptuary laws; Leed on Renaissance cleaning techniques of textiles; Sherrill on fur in the Renaissance; and Nunn-Weinberg on English embroidered jackets in painted portraits. The journal has a few black and white illustrations, no doubt an economic decision, and concludes with some helpful short book reviews and a detailed index; color illustrations, and a greater number of them, is a needed addition if funds ever permit. iMedieval Clothing and Textiles/i, volume 2, will reach medievalists outside of the field of textiles and dress studies due to its use of material culture to illuminate broader aspects of medieval daily life, beyond the making of cloth and wearing of clothes. Monica Wright's essay, among the strongest in the volume, illustrates the shift from gift to mercantile exchange and from women's/domestic work to men's/professional work, through an examination of French romance. Textiles were repeatedly used in the resolution of conflicts; characters withhold items they have made or make and give textile items. Wright concludes that these acts uphold a traditional societal system in which women are the primary makers of textiles and a profit- economy had not yet emerged. Textiles play a crucial role in this body of French literature and point to the larger dialogue about the professionalization of the cloth-making industry occurring at the time these romances were written. Also demonstrating the great economic impact of textiles is Margaret Rose Jaster's examination of sumptuary laws at the point that they were rescinded in early seventeenth-century England. A distinct anxiety about the impoverishment of the realm (92) due to the consumption of foreign apparel and textiles presents itself in homilies, pamphlets and other writings of the day. The texts the author discusses are often funny, while the laws themselves conversely seem like frantic attempts to put out a fire already out of control: the rage for garments and cloth from abroad. The legislation, repeal, and subsequent discussion in the various forms of popular literature can't help but remind one of our (American) fretting the loss of the automobile industry to outsiders or our current obsession with oil; textiles were such a major economic force in medieval Europe, as essay after essay in this volume demonstrates. Some of the essays have paradigmatic frameworks that we expect: Paris, noted often as the birthplace of fashion, has a larger textile market than previously noted by scholars (Farmer essay) and Italian sables were markers of extreme wealth (Sherrill essay), for example. Exceptional however, is Drea Leed's fascinating look at the business of cleaning textiles. An
[h-cost] Crill's Chintz: Indian Textiles for the West
Hi, I just got my copy of Rosemary Crill's Chintz: Indian Textiles for the West. Oh WOW. Eighty-eight color plates. A beautiful, wonderful, book -- and for me, kind of the Missing Link on 17th and 18th century Indian fabrics for the European and American markets. It's gorgeous. Just had to share my excitement. Lauren Walker [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.timetraveltextiles.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re:Finding Information
Thank you for your wonderful advice again, I never thought to look in the back of the book for the sources where the author did the research from! This is something I got from ebay and thought it would be worth having, the original would be awesome but this is a copy of the entire book on cd rom: The History of Fashion in France or The dress of women from the Gallo-Roman period to the present time. From the French of M. Augustin Challamel. By Mrs. Cashel Hoey and Mr. John Lillie 1882 It has 293 pages which are said to be all included in the disc and for the price I paid for it ($8) I am sure it will be worth something without losing much. This seems like a good place to start for my own collection, minus the dozens of Dover paper doll books my sister and I have accumlated over the years. I have the Godeys fashion plate book, and the history of underwear, and the history of the corset and there are others I want still but it is time to get into the real researching. Those books are good for at a glance information, and the pictures are stimulating too of course. Moore College of Art in Phila is where I went and they had a good library too, I think there would be no problem with me getting in there and looking around and perhaps atleast making printouts. they did have antique books in there that were costume porfolios but I think they were ethnic costumes, worth taking another look at though. Take care Justine:) More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: slops for women
Thank you for this. I've had other things going on and have not been able to follow up my original question, but slops = women's mourning clothes makes a lot of sense given the original context. Allison T. On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 7:50 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Message: 10 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 00:51:33 -0800 (PST) From: Kimiko Small [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] slops for women? To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Just an update... I've been perusing through some Google books, and found this one. A Cyclopaedia of Costume Or Dictionary of Dress... By James Robinson Planché I think you can click this and view it: http://books.google.com/books?id=f419oz-NWDgCrview=1 Page 469 includes an entry on Slops, which gives more illumination of the word with regards to women's mourning clothing. That slops were not breeches as late as the reign of Henry VII., is evident from the ordinances issued by his mother, Margaret Countess of Richmond, for the reformation of apparell for great estates of women in the tyme of mourninge, wherein the Queen's gentlewomen are directed to wear sloppes, which are explained to mean mourning cassocks for ladies and gentlewomen, not open before. In the first year of Henry VIII, also, according to Hall, upon Shrove Sunday, after a goodly banket in the Parliament Chamber at Westminster, a masque was presented in which, amongst many other fancifully attired personages (the King being one), there entered six ladies, two of whom were in garments of crymosyne and purpull, made like long slops, embroidered and fretted with golde after the antique fascion ; and over the slop was a shorte garment of cloth of golde, scant to the knee, fascioned like a tabard, c. But though they were not breeches,... There's a lot more, but that gets the drift with regards to mourning clothing. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Help Finding Theatrical Costumes
Greetings: I just joined this list and the fantasy list at the beginning of the week as these were the only costume related forums I could find. I don't want to muddy up the list with off-topic stuff, so hopefully someone here can point me in the right direction. I'm directing a play that takes place in the 1930's. Finding authentic costumes isn't proving difficult, HOWEVER, For one scene we need the actors to be able to do a quick change from plain grey to colorful tops while onstage, hopefully by throwing back a flap or cape/cloak of some sort. Is anyone here involved in theater costuming and has experience with this sort of thing? Or do you know where I can find this info? Any help is appreciated. Forgive me if this is a little off-topic. Thanks, Anthony Toohey The Stage Hands [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Re: black linen costume
I want to thank everyone who gave me some ideas of what to do with my 5+ yards of black linen. It may go for bodice lining primarily, but some of the other non-monochromatic images were intriguing. (I have to stop buying material for which I have no immediate use, I keep telling myself but I always give in!) Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity **Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp0030002598) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re:Finding Information
That does sound like a fun find, but do please be very careful of such tertiary sources (overviews and fact books that aren't actually from the period in question and just summarize information from sources which themselves MIGHT refer to the original primary source, but who knows?), especially Victorian ones. The road to hell is paved with the good intentions of Victorian costume historians... These are the folks who came up with images of 14th century gowns worn over curvy 19th c. corsets and hoops... So, enjoy the images, but if something strikes your fancy, turn to sources a little closer to your period of interest to try to find what the original actually might have looked like. And please, please, if you have Peacock's history of costume (that one's a modern abomination), take it out and burn it. It has nothing but impossible line drawings and no facts to back anything up. If only I could make all copies disappear from library shelves Looking in the bibliography and in footnotes is indeed an excellent way to find info. Sometimes a bit of digging turns up surprises-- I once decided to look up a reference to medieval women's underwear that a lot of people quoted from a book on Italian textiles by Maureen Mazzaoui. The author footnoted her source for the statement. I went to find the source. And discovered it was in a tertiary source with lots of inventive line drawings and nothing to back up the claim, with no further footnoting to follow up on. So, just because it's in a book, don't take it as Truth! And have fun digging--it's like figuring out a really complex and intriguing puzzle! Astrida -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 1:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Re:Finding Information Thank you for your wonderful advice again, I never thought to look in the back of the book for the sources where the author did the research from! This is something I got from ebay and thought it would be worth having, the original would be awesome but this is a copy of the entire book on cd rom: The History of Fashion in France or The dress of women from the Gallo-Roman period to the present time. From the French of M. Augustin Challamel. By Mrs. Cashel Hoey and Mr. John Lillie 1882 It has 293 pages which are said to be all included in the disc and for the price I paid for it ($8) I am sure it will be worth something without losing much. This seems like a good place to start for my own collection, minus the dozens of Dover paper doll books my sister and I have accumlated over the years. I have the Godeys fashion plate book, and the history of underwear, and the history of the corset and there are others I want still but it is time to get into the real researching. Those books are good for at a glance information, and the pictures are stimulating too of course. Moore College of Art in Phila is where I went and they had a good library too, I think there would be no problem with me getting in there and looking around and perhaps atleast making printouts. they did have antique books in there that were costume porfolios but I think they were ethnic costumes, worth taking another look at though. Take care Justine:) More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Help Finding Theatrical Costumes
You should address this to The Costumers Manifesto email list. It's a Yahoo groups list. Sylvia On Feb 21, 2008, at 12:29 PM, Anthony Toohey wrote: Greetings: I just joined this list and the fantasy list at the beginning of the week as these were the only costume related forums I could find. I don't want to muddy up the list with off-topic stuff, so hopefully someone here can point me in the right direction. I'm directing a play that takes place in the 1930's. Finding authentic costumes isn't proving difficult, HOWEVER, For one scene we need the actors to be able to do a quick change from plain grey to colorful tops while onstage, hopefully by throwing back a flap or cape/cloak of some sort. Is anyone here involved in theater costuming and has experience with this sort of thing? Or do you know where I can find this info? Any help is appreciated. Forgive me if this is a little off-topic. Thanks, Anthony Toohey The Stage Hands [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Help Finding Theatrical Costumes
Have the grey tops button up to the neck, with overlapping fronts lapels, rather like a military coat. Line the lapels with the bright colors you want. Then, by opening the neck and folding back the lapels, you'll get a quick color change. The rest of the top will still be grey, but not so noticeable if the lapels are large. Or just make the grey tops easily removable (Velcro or snaps), with the colorful tops underneath. You could also add/switch/flip scarves, capelets, etc. Do all the costumes have to be the same? I might be fun to see how many different ways you can switch to color. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Toohey Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 11:29 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Help Finding Theatrical Costumes Greetings: I just joined this list and the fantasy list at the beginning of the week as these were the only costume related forums I could find. I don't want to muddy up the list with off-topic stuff, so hopefully someone here can point me in the right direction. I'm directing a play that takes place in the 1930's. Finding authentic costumes isn't proving difficult, HOWEVER, For one scene we need the actors to be able to do a quick change from plain grey to colorful tops while onstage, hopefully by throwing back a flap or cape/cloak of some sort. Is anyone here involved in theater costuming and has experience with this sort of thing? Or do you know where I can find this info? Any help is appreciated. Forgive me if this is a little off-topic. Thanks, Anthony Toohey The Stage Hands [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Re: black linen costume
I just saw Becoming Jane last night (thanks Netflix!) and she had some very nice dresses made of linen.A dark blue walking dress, especially. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 12:09 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Re: black linen costume I want to thank everyone who gave me some ideas of what to do with my 5+ yards of black linen. It may go for bodice lining primarily, but some of the other non-monochromatic images were intriguing. (I have to stop buying material for which I have no immediate use, I keep telling myself but I always give in!) Donna Scarfe Fyne Hats By Felicity **Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du ffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp0030002598) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Re: black linen costume
(I have to stop buying material for which I have no immediate use, I keep telling myself but I always give in!) Many of us do that--I bought twenty-seven yards of wool in the last couple of weeks. I know where about eight of it will be used, the rest I bought because it was on sale and really really cheap. (10 yards of a lightweight wool blend for $2.99 a yard!) Dianne ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for tudor/elizabethan references
Melanie Schuessler wrote: If you're planning to cover up to 1600 and not just 1500-1600, you might consider expanding your talk to include discussion of 14th and 15th-century images of saints. Robin Netherton is the expert here, but I do a little version of Jeff Foxworthy's you might be a redneck if that I call they might be a saint if in my Costume History class. Images of saints are particularly common in these centuries in Italy and the Low Countries, though they appear elsewhere as well. They tend to be wearing fanciful and/or imaginary clothing, and for some reason modern people looking for research always seem to zoom in on them. Chris Laning added: For instance, Robin is fond of pointing out that elaborately decorated or jeweled bands along the hemline are usually confined to queens, saints, angels and other people who don't have to worry about getting their hems dirty. ;) With you folks out there, I don't have to feel so guilty about being away from list mail for a couple of days! The OP asked for post-1300 examples of why visual sources should not be taken as 100% gospel when doing costuming research. There are many, many reasons why. One obvious issue is that of fanciful, allegorical, or symbolic depictions such as Melanie and Chris pointed out, but there are other issues as well. Some people assume, for instance, that they won't have problems as long as they stick with images of real people, but there are plenty of examples (some already brought up on this list) that underscore the point that artists depicting real individuals or historical scenes had other priorities than exact faithful reproduction. They might have been paid to make certain people appear rich, important, intelligent, pious, politically affiliated, etc., and each of those qualities could be expressed through specific clothing (which may or may not have existed, and may or may not have belonged to the person in question). Making it even more fun, sometimes artists deliberately included allegorical or symbolic elements in portraits of real people, to communicate messages that would be understood by the viewers. This is especially an issue when you're dealing with portraits of royalty or other important people. Funerary sculpture (brasses and effigies) often includes symbolic or traditional features peculiar its purpose (loose hair and garlands for women, armor for men who were not soldiers). So do some donor paintings, illuminations, and stained glass depictions that were designed to commemorate a person's position or accomplishments. Heraldic garments are a particular problem, as some types existed and others almost certainly did not. Beyond that, you have to take into account restrictions of the visual medium involved, and these considerations differ among media. Colors used in paintings (achieved with pigments) do not exactly match up to colors of fabric (achieved with dyes). Tapestries tend to be good sources for real textile colors, but they are prone to showing disparate elements from different time periods within a single scene, the result of mixing and matching parts of cartoons dating from different periods. And on and on. Marcia Schlemm, known to some people on this list as Katrei in the SCA, gave a bang-up paper once at Kalamazoo showing how the preponderance of polka-dotted gowns in enamels were almost certainly a direct result of the process of enamel-making, not likely a representation of a particular fashion of dotty embellished garments. I could go on, but I don't have the time for a long post. If I were speaking, it would take me an hour just to give you a good overview, and more to examine any one of these angles (as I know for a fact, as I've built multiple lectures around this issue). Other people are supplying good examples of specific artworks that might be useful for the class in question. But there's no shortage of material. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Glowing review of *Medieval Clothing Textiles 2*
Chris Laning wrote: I thought people would enjoy this review of the second volume of MCT. (It's an annual: volume 4 is due out later this spring). The reviewer is clearly delighted with it and says some nice things about how the study of clothing and textiles illuminates other aspects of medieval life. Well, duh! We knew that! Congrats, Robin and Gale! Thanks, Chris! People have been sending me copies of this one since it appeared. We're pretty pleased with the assessment; the reviewer is a respected costume historian in her own right and I hope to have the chance to work with her someday. Two of the authors in the volume she reviewed (vol. 2) are regulars on this list: Drea Leed and Danielle Nunn-Weinberg. Congrats to them, too, for a job well done. Reviews seem to take a long time to catch up to publications. We publish once a year, and our third volume came out in April 2007; see http://www.boydell.co.uk/43832917.HTM for contents. That volume includes a paper by listmember Melanie Schuessler on 15th-c. children's clothing. Our fourth volume is at the printer this week and is due out in a couple of months. You can see the contents here: http://www.boydell.co.uk/43833662.HTM ... and you can pre-order either through Boydell or other dealer such as Amazon (prices vary). This volume has a number of papers that should be of especial interest to historic costumers (in addition to costume historians). I'm particularly pleased about a paper giving a close analysis of a surviving linen cap attributed to the 14th-century saint Birgitta of Sweden, complete with photos, measurements, and diagrams of construction and likely mode of wear for the cap itself, as well as detailed discussion and diagrams of the embroidered decoration. One of the two authors is a Danish clothing historian, and the other is a re-enactor and costumer from Belgium. I suspect we will be seeing Birgitta caps on re-enactors all over two continents after this comes out. Another paper, by quilt historian Lisa Evans (who may be known to some of you as a re-enactor in the Boston area), starts with an entry for a decorated quilt in Henry VII's inventory and examines it from every possible angle. She takes into account the 16th century quilt industry, Henry's marital history, the symbolic use of heraldic motifs, and the political intrigues of the Tudor court to build an extremely plausible and logical account of the origin, use, and significance of this textile object. It reads like a mystery story. For those of you who have heard me speak on the Greenland multi-gore gown: I've promised for a long time to do a proper written paper on this, and I've finally gotten it done. That's in volume 4 as well. Yes, there's a pattern diagram. Other papers discuss the linguistic development of costume terms (wimple and cuff), linen production in medieval Russia, references to scarlet clothing in Icelandic sagas, a new method for classifying archaeological textiles that takes appearance into account, and symbolic use of women's turbans in 15th-century French painting. And now I'm working on volume 6. No rest for the wicked. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] looking for tudor/elizabethan references
Hi Margaret-- Could you please reference the Bronzino paintings you wrote about? I am VERY interested ... Thanks- Monica -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of margaret Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 12:08 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] looking for tudor/elizabethan references This is not Tudor or Elizabethan, but Bronzino did at leasttwo of the same person in the same dress with different sleeves. Margaret Help!! My consort and I are preparing a class about visual sources and why they should not be taken as 100% gospel when doing costuming research, and as usual once I get past about 1300 I hit a snag. :-) If you want to discourse on the changes in sleeve geometry from 1200 to 1300 in England and France, I'm your girl. Anything after that, though, and I am at a total loss. Our stated time frame is up to 1600, and we have sources up to and including 1300. However, we would also like to use examples from post 1300 as well, and that's where I come to all you later-period specialists. I have been told that there are several portraits out there, by the same artist, of different sitters, but using the same or almost the same dress. Is this in fact the case, and if so, where can I find images of these portraits? My consort tells me that there are also portraits of various male members of a family all portrayed in the same suit of armor--again, if anyone has any references I can chase down that would be incredibly helpful. And yes, I plan on using the portrait of Elizabeth in the eyes-and-ears gown as an example of symbolism. Many many many thanks, pixel/Jen ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] A good use for bad costume books (was: Finding Information)
Schaeffer, Astrida wrote: And please, please, if you have Peacock's history of costume (that one's a modern abomination), take it out and burn it. It has nothing but impossible line drawings and no facts to back anything up. If only I could make all copies disappear from library shelves Even better than burning it, send it to the Robin Netherton Home for Wayward Bad Costume Books. I have a shelf full of unreliable sources that I consult frequently when I'm trying to track down the origins of a misconception and to sort out the sequence of a chain of erroneous interpretations. I pick up some volumes in used bookstores and at library sales, but I'd really rather spend my money on the good resources! So if you have a book that's too awful to use, and you want to take it out of of the hands of unwary costumers AND put it to constructive use, contact me and see if I have it already, or if I need it. I'll gladly reimburse for postage. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Glowing review of *Medieval Clothing Textiles 2*
On Feb 21, 2008, at 9:06 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: Reviews seem to take a long time to catch up to publications. We publish once a year, and our third volume came out in April 2007; see http://www.boydell.co.uk/43832917.HTM for contents. That volume includes a paper by listmember Melanie Schuessler on 15th-c. children's clothing. Actually, it's 16th-century children's clothing--1530s to be specific. I just don't want any 15th-century fans to get excited, go find it, and then realize it's not what they thought. Melanie ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for tudor/elizabethan references
On Feb 21, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Chris Laning wrote: For instance, Robin is fond of pointing out that elaborately decorated or jeweled bands along the hemline are usually confined to queens, saints, angels and other people who don't have to worry about getting their hems dirty. ;) I'd like to point out that in the 16th century, highly decorated bands along the hemline were actually fashionable. It's true that only certain people (the wealthy) could afford them, but they're not markers of imaginary clothing in the 16th like they might be in earlier centuries. Melanie Schuessler ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Glowing review of *Medieval Clothing Textiles 2*
On Thursday 21 February 2008, Robin Netherton wrote: And now I'm working on volume 6. No rest for the wicked. Wow. Volume 6! Whatever became of Volume 5? ;-) -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] You affect the world by what you browse.-- Tim Berners-Lee ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Glowing review of *Medieval Clothing Textiles 2*
Melanie Schuessler wrote: On Feb 21, 2008, at 9:06 PM, Robin Netherton wrote: Reviews seem to take a long time to catch up to publications. We publish once a year, and our third volume came out in April 2007; see http://www.boydell.co.uk/43832917.HTM for contents. That volume includes a paper by listmember Melanie Schuessler on 15th-c. children's clothing. Actually, it's 16th-century children's clothing--1530s to be specific. I just don't want any 15th-century fans to get excited, go find it, and then realize it's not what they thought. Oh, drat, sorry. I really did know the difference -- just typoed. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Bad books:
After I checked my mail this morning and got all the tips about researching, starting with cconsulting the back of the book, I went and looked in the back of some of my books! One book wasn't a book on fashion, but in it the author rather studies and compares the differences between our society today and Victorian society, and how many of the things that are bad today are the result of things that changed from that era, it really is fascinating and she nails many good points in the head. The bibliography is huge! Most of the literature consists of books written in the 1980s and 90's but there are a few titles, most reprinted, from the 1880s and I noticed that most of those were reprinted by one specific publishing company, so I will look them up. I will be sure to send along any bad books I get but most of my purchases are done so with care to avoid that sort of problem. However, I recall quite a few of those basic costume through history books on our library shelves that were printed I guess mainly for kids doing reports on a specific time period or someone doing a play. Our library system also has the network so that you can reserve/order books from any other library within the system and it's fairly fast cause I did it once, our branch here, though the prettiest library you can imagine, has a very poor selection on such topics for serious researchers, sadly. Even the other titles from other locations were again those broken down overview books where one person has done all the hunting and gathering and sloshed it together into one book. I will remember now that whenever I have one of those, to get a piece of paper and pen or pencil and just browse through the back of it. I have an original book of etiquette from 1880 so I take much of the content of that book more seriously than I would a new book about the Victorian era only such form varied from place to place and what rules applied in one town may not have been weighed so heavily in others. More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Glowing review of *Medieval Clothing Textiles 2*
And as my mother used to say ...and the righteous don't need any Patty And now I'm working on volume 6. No rest for the wicked. --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for tudor/elizabethan references
There are two diffrent copies out there of a portrait of Lucrezia Panciatichi app. 1540 in a red dress one with purple under sleeves is at the Galleria degli Uffizi in Florence and one with red under sleeves whose citation I cannot of course find at the moment. I'm not sure if the second one was by Bronzino or one of his students. Margaret Hi Margaret-- Could you please reference the Bronzino paintings you wrote about? I am VERY interested ... Thanks- Monica ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] A good use for bad costume books
Robin Netherton wrote: Schaeffer, Astrida wrote: And please, please, if you have Peacock's history of costume (that one's a modern abomination), take it out and burn it. It has nothing but impossible line drawings and no facts to back anything up. If only I could make all copies disappear from library shelves Even better than burning it, send it to the Robin Netherton Home for Wayward Bad Costume Books. I have a shelf full of unreliable sources that I consult frequently when I'm trying to track down the origins of a misconception and to sort out the sequence of a chain of erroneous interpretations. I love discredited sources. On numerous occasions I've threatened to do historical masquerade entries based on known discredited sources (including the idea of doing ancient Egyptian based on Rosicrucian Society dogma for CC23 in Ogden, Utah at the Peery Egyptian Theater). andy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] looking for tudor/elizabethan references
Melanie Schuessler wrote: On Feb 21, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Chris Laning wrote: For instance, Robin is fond of pointing out that elaborately decorated or jeweled bands along the hemline are usually confined to queens, saints, angels and other people who don't have to worry about getting their hems dirty. ;) I'd like to point out that in the 16th century, highly decorated bands along the hemline were actually fashionable. It's true that only certain people (the wealthy) could afford them, but they're not markers of imaginary clothing in the 16th like they might be in earlier centuries. Every century and culture has its real but impractical clothing. The Japanese fashion of nagabakama (those long pants that trail for a meter or so behind you) was never practical, and really only wearable if one never left the confines of castles or shrines with immaculately polished floors. andy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] slops for women?
snip Shrove Sunday, after a goodly banket in the Parliament Chamber at Westminster, a masque was presented in which, amongst many other fancifully attired personages (the King being one), there entered six ladies, two of whom were in garments of crymosyne and purpull, made like long slops, embroidered and fretted with golde after the antique fascion ; and over the slop was a shorte garment of cloth of golde, scant to the knee, fascioned like a tabard, c. But though they were not breeches,... There's a lot more, but that gets the drift with regards to mourning clothing. Kimiko Now it really makes me want to scream Pictures! We want Pictures! since I can't visualize what they are supposed to look like. Regina ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] looking for tudor/elizabethan references
If you can get a copy of Roy Strong's Elizabethan Icon book, there are portraits of sisters that are wearing the same dress but in a mirror image (one faces right, the other left). I think he suggests that paintings were made of something like this and the face put in to order. Regina (too lazy to go down and up stairs for the book) - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
