Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit OT
My family has a Masonic apron and sword that belonged to my great- great-grandfather (who was born in 1819). None of us are Masons, and we would eventually like to donate these to a museum or Masonic collection that would appreciate them. Anyone have suggestions for who to contact about finding them a good home? OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit OT
I would siggest that you consider the Grand Lodge of your jurisdiction. Many Grand Lodges have museums. Where are you located? I can help you get in touch with the Grand Lodge in your jurisdiction. Another choice would be his lodge, but many lodges don't really have the facilities to handle antiques, some do though. Do you know where he was a Mason? Ron Carnegie Jul 21, 2010 03:02:32 PM, h-cost...@indra.com wrote: My family has a Masonic apron and sword that belonged to my great- great-grandfather (who was born in 1819). None of us are Masons, and we would eventually like to donate these to a museum or Masonic collection that would appreciate them. Anyone have suggestions for who to contact about finding them a good home? O Chris Laning - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit of info..
Thank you, Ron. I had found some images but your information was good. I had decided to use the pillars and compass and seeing eye on all three of them and to use the rounded bottom look as well. Your information seems to confirm my conjecture that the individual aprons could easily have been different, and it seems that, indeed, they were not yet regulated in 1780-1790. Is there one (or more) symbol(s) that would indicate a Master or journeyman or apprentice. I don't know what Mozart was, but the play has him being a relatively new brother, while the other two characters are a bit older. Kate Pinner -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Ron Carnegie Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:20 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit of info.. These are modern aprons and wearing the offices on the aprons is very modern. Masons used to wear their own aprons, which makes wearing your jewel on the apron difficult as these positions can change frequently. Most members of a lodge are not the officers. Some of the aprons shown on the page are specifically for appendant bodies most of which did not exist during Mozart's life. Templar for instance, which is an appendant body and not a officer of a lodge. Most of the modern rites are also just that modern. The only degrees you should really concern yourself with are the three of craft masonry. Many period aprons are very busy with lots of symbolism on them, they are just as likely to be silk as they are to be lambskin, the traditional material. They were sometimes plain white, but they were just as often painted, embroidered, printed. They very commonly had ribbon ruching on the edges or fringe. They often were not square, like they commonly are today. Both of my reproduction ones for that reason have rounded bottoms as will my next one. (I have five Aprons) Here are some more historic apron styles: This first is a modern maker of repro aprons. http://www.craftsmansapron.com/custom-aprons.php These tend to be a little late I think for what you are looking at but they are originals http://nationalheritagemuseum.typepad.com/library_and_archives/masonic-apron s/ This page has some limited information on how the modern and period aprons can vary, with an image of an apron earlier than what you seek. http://sites.google.com/site/mysticesotericart/about-george-washington-s-apr on/the-ancient-masonic-aprons This is supposed to have been Robert Burns' don't know about that, but the symbolism on it is very common for 18th century aprons. The pillars the pavement, the sun and moon compasses and level etc.. http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR; screen=lotdetailsNoFlashiSaleItemNo=4361005iSaleNo=17616iSaleSectionNo=1 This is an apron that was Belonged to burns. It does show a level and a plumb which are the jewels of the Master of the Lodge as well as the Senior Warden, not two offices that are held by the same man at the same time! These are also however some of the working tools of a Fellowcraft and this does appear to be a Fellowcraft apron. That is one of the three degrees (or sometime four in Britain) of craft masonry. http://burns.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-027-122-C Here is a French 18th century apron. Many of the French aprons I have seen are far more artsy than the British and American ones. I am not certain that I have seen a Viennese apron. http://www.bridgemanartondemand.com/art/77755/Apron_of_a_Master_18th_century This link is from the premier research lodge. It has some links to various aprons and apron related items on the left. The Washington link is to the disputed Lafayette Apron. http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/aqc/apron.html Another typical example http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/old-masonic-apron here is a printed apron, they are usually single colored like this. At the Carlisle House in Alexandria VA, the duplicated this process for a repro by simply photocopying. http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/old-masonic-apron Here is another French apron, this one attributed to Franklin http://www.benfranklin300.org/frankliniana/result.php?id=560sec=1 one more http://ncmuseumofhistory.org/MOH/vfpcgi.exe?IDCFile=/moh/DETAILS.IDC,SPECIFI C=84883,DATABASE=41828726, If you live anywhere were there are 18th century museums and houses you may have some originals of these around. They are NOT uncommon. The museum I work for owns a few, as does the Virginia Grande Lodge Museum. I have seen many in various house museums, Masonic lodges and some friends own some originals. The period one however, are distinctly different from modern ones. (its harder to tell the 18 from the 19th century ones however). I'm your huckleberry Ron Carnegie r.carne...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com
Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit OT
Christian Contact Ed Caughie (Master Edward le Kervere ). I think he's the current Grand Master of the Lodge in Woodland. Whether he is or isn't at present, he has been in the past and he's very active in Masons. I'm sure he'll be happy to help you. Gwenhwyfaer Chris Laning clan...@igc.org 7/21/10 7:58 AM My family has a Masonic apron and sword that belonged to my great- great-grandfather (who was born in 1819). None of us are Masons, and we would eventually like to donate these to a museum or Masonic collection that would appreciate them. Anyone have suggestions for who to contact about finding them a good home? OChris Laning clan...@igc.org - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is solely for the use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review, use or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the communication. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit of info..
Kate~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart_and_Freemasonry (with supporting citations) says that Mozart was admitted as an apprentice to the Viennese Masonic lodge called Zur Wohltätigkeit (Beneficence) on 14 December 1784.[1] He was promoted to journeyman Mason on 7 January 1785, and became a master Mason shortly thereafter.[1] Mozart also attended the meetings of another lodge, called Zur wahren Eintracht (True Concord). According to Otto Erich Deutsch, this lodge was the largest and most aristocratic in Vienna. ... Mozart, as the best of the musical 'Brothers,' was welcome in all the lodges. It was headed by the naturalist Ignaz von Born.[2] Mozart's own lodge Zur Wohltätigkeit was consolidated with two others in December of 1785, under the Imperial reform of Masonry (the Freimaurerpatent, Masonic Decree) of 11 December 1785, and thus Mozart came to belong to the lodge called Zur Neugekrönten Hoffnung (New Crowned Hope).[3] At least as far as surviving Masonic documents can tell us, Mozart was well regarded by his fellow Masons. Many of his friends were Masons. [1][3] Solomon, Maynard (1995) Mozart: A Life. Harper Collins [2] Deutsch, Otto Erich (1965) Mozart: A Documentary Biography. Stanford: Stanford University Press Kathryn Pinner pinn...@mccc.edu 7/21/10 1:21 PM Thank you, Ron. I had found some images but your information was good. I had decided to use the pillars and compass and seeing eye on all three of them and to use the rounded bottom look as well. Your information seems to confirm my conjecture that the individual aprons could easily have been different, and it seems that, indeed, they were not yet regulated in 1780-1790. Is there one (or more) symbol(s) that would indicate a Master or journeyman or apprentice. I don't know what Mozart was, but the play has him being a relatively new brother, while the other two characters are a bit older. Kate Pinner -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Ron Carnegie Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:20 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit of info.. These are modern aprons and wearing the offices on the aprons is very modern. Masons used to wear their own aprons, which makes wearing your jewel on the apron difficult as these positions can change frequently. Most members of a lodge are not the officers. Some of the aprons shown on the page are specifically for appendant bodies most of which did not exist during Mozart's life. Templar for instance, which is an appendant body and not a officer of a lodge. Most of the modern rites are also just that modern. The only degrees you should really concern yourself with are the three of craft masonry. Many period aprons are very busy with lots of symbolism on them, they are just as likely to be silk as they are to be lambskin, the traditional material. They were sometimes plain white, but they were just as often painted, embroidered, printed. They very commonly had ribbon ruching on the edges or fringe. They often were not square, like they commonly are today. Both of my reproduction ones for that reason have rounded bottoms as will my next one. (I have five Aprons) Here are some more historic apron styles: This first is a modern maker of repro aprons. http://www.craftsmansapron.com/custom-aprons.php These tend to be a little late I think for what you are looking at but they are originals http://nationalheritagemuseum.typepad.com/library_and_archives/masonic-apron s/ This page has some limited information on how the modern and period aprons can vary, with an image of an apron earlier than what you seek. http://sites.google.com/site/mysticesotericart/about-george-washington-s-apr on/the-ancient-masonic-aprons This is supposed to have been Robert Burns' don't know about that, but the symbolism on it i s very common for 18th century aprons. The pillars the pavement, the sun and moon compasses and level etc.. http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR; screen=lotdetailsNoFlashiSaleItemNo=4361005iSaleNo=17616iSaleSectionNo=1 This is an apron that was Belonged to burns. It does show a level and a plumb which are the jewels of the Master of the Lodge as well as the Senior Warden, not two offices that are held by the same man at the same time! These are also however some of the working tools of a Fellowcraft and this does appear to be a Fellowcraft apron. That is one of the three degrees (or sometime four in Britain) of craft masonry. http://burns.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-027-122-C Here is a French 18th century apron. Many of the French aprons I have seen are far more artsy than the British and American ones. I am not certain that I have seen a Viennese apron. http://www.bridgemanartondemand.com/art/77755/Apron_of_a_Master_18th_century This link is from the premier research lodge. It has some links to various
[h-cost] Humorous review of costumes in Pillars of the Earth
And of other aspects of the series too. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/21/DDH01EFL92.DTL If this does not bring up the article, go to www.sfgate.com and search on Pillars of the Earth. Fran Lavolta Press Books on making historic clothing www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit of info..
Hmmm ... there is a difference in some symbolism between the three degrees, but it is minor and I am not certain that I can tell you. Let me check my Presentation manual and see if it is in there, if it is I can share it with you, if it is not, then I can't. That being said however, any of the secrets of masonry regarding recognition signs or ritual can easily be found online. If my jurisdiction regards it a secret however, I would be in violation of my obligation in sharing it with you or verifying your sources. These differences certainly would be lost from the stage to the audience however. I did notice that one of the aprons I sent appeared to be an entered apprentice and the other a Fellowcraft. I saw the Wikipedia that Ginni posted below myself last night. I wanted to be sure that it was in Vienna that he was a mason, I thought that it was. I am suspicious about there being no date for his raising, when there is for his initiation and passing. It could simply be that for whatever reason the record doesn't survive, that does happen. However, there was no requirement in the 18th century that a mason be raised to master. Today it is assumed that any mason will do so and here in America it is not unusual to not consider a man a mason UNTIL he becomes a master mason. He can't participate in America in most Masonic activities until he is. Many modern American Masons do not know that this is a recent (1840ish) addition and pretty much strictly an American practice. The original compilers of this wiki might just be assuming he was a Master. As I said though, he might have been too. I'm your huckleberry Ron Carnegie r.carne...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Ginni Morgan Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 5:30 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit of info.. Kate~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart_and_Freemasonry (with supporting citations) says that Mozart was admitted as an apprentice to the Viennese Masonic lodge called Zur Wohltätigkeit (Beneficence) on 14 December 1784.[1] He was promoted to journeyman Mason on 7 January 1785, and became a master Mason shortly thereafter.[1] Mozart also attended the meetings of another lodge, called Zur wahren Eintracht (True Concord). According to Otto Erich Deutsch, this lodge was the largest and most aristocratic in Vienna. ... Mozart, as the best of the musical 'Brothers,' was welcome in all the lodges. It was headed by the naturalist Ignaz von Born.[2] Mozart's own lodge Zur Wohltätigkeit was consolidated with two others in December of 1785, under the Imperial reform of Masonry (the Freimaurerpatent, Masonic Decree) of 11 December 1785, and thus Mozart came to belong to the lodge called Zur Neugekrönten Hoffnung (New Crowned Hope).[3] At least as far as surviving Masonic documents can tell us, Mozart was well regarded by his fellow Masons. Many of his friends were Masons. [1][3] Solomon, Maynard (1995) Mozart: A Life. Harper Collins [2] Deutsch, Otto Erich (1965) Mozart: A Documentary Biography. Stanford: Stanford University Press Kathryn Pinner pinn...@mccc.edu 7/21/10 1:21 PM Thank you, Ron. I had found some images but your information was good. I had decided to use the pillars and compass and seeing eye on all three of them and to use the rounded bottom look as well. Your information seems to confirm my conjecture that the individual aprons could easily have been different, and it seems that, indeed, they were not yet regulated in 1780-1790. Is there one (or more) symbol(s) that would indicate a Master or journeyman or apprentice. I don't know what Mozart was, but the play has him being a relatively new brother, while the other two characters are a bit older. Kate Pinner -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Ron Carnegie Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:20 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit of info.. These are modern aprons and wearing the offices on the aprons is very modern. Masons used to wear their own aprons, which makes wearing your jewel on the apron difficult as these positions can change frequently. Most members of a lodge are not the officers. Some of the aprons shown on the page are specifically for appendant bodies most of which did not exist during Mozart's life. Templar for instance, which is an appendant body and not a officer of a lodge. Most of the modern rites are also just that modern. The only degrees you should really concern yourself with are the three of craft masonry. Many period aprons are very busy with lots of symbolism on them, they are just as likely to be silk as they are to be lambskin, the traditional material. They were sometimes plain white, but they were just as often painted, embroidered, printed. They very commonly had ribbon ruching on the
Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit of info..
Okay sorry to bore those not interested. I checked on the below mentioned info. Here in Virginia the rule is, if it is printed in our stuff it aint a secret! And the information I am about to mention is printed. The reasons for it are not. All of this has to do with the placement of the square and compasses. I imagine that many of your are familiar with the general shape with the compasses open, points downward, with the square placed with the angle downward. The little point, that I really don't think will be visible to the audience anyway is this: Entered Apprentice Degree- the square should be on top of the two points of the compasses Fellowcraft (what the wiki is calling journeymen and perhaps some jurisdictions do)- the left point of the compasses should be under the square the right point over Master- both points should be over the square I hope you understand what I mean. It would be easier to depict in a picture. If you look at the posts I sent, as I recall most importantly the two supposed Burn's aprons, you should see what I mean. I'm your huckleberry Ron Carnegie r.carne...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Ron Carnegie Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 10:42 PM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: Re: [h-cost] Masonic aprons .. a bit of info.. Hmmm ... there is a difference in some symbolism between the three degrees, but it is minor and I am not certain that I can tell you. Let me check my Presentation manual and see if it is in there, if it is I can share it with you, if it is not, then I can't. That being said however, any of the secrets of masonry regarding recognition signs or ritual can easily be found online. If my jurisdiction regards it a secret however, I would be in violation of my obligation in sharing it with you or verifying your sources. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
