[h-cost] Speaking of costume books for sale
I found an excess copy of Napoleone: e l'Impero della Moda floating around. It's in Italian. Contact me if you are interested. Fran Lavolta Press www.lavoltapress.com www.facebook.com/LavoltaPress ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 1849 millinery questions
Hi, I'm working on a 1/12 scale (dollhouse miniature) of the outfit in an 1849 fashion plate. (If you've subscribed to the Costume Gallery, it's part of the Year in Fashion: 1949 collection, http://www.costumegallery.com/1849/ . It's the March 1849 Fashion Plate : Lady with Children .) I'm almost done with the gown and moving on to the bonne t. I am not very knowledgeable about 19th-century headwear, and am hoping someone with expertise can give me a clue or two or three . The bonnet appears to be straw, and I think it is more or less the typical shape of that decade, which I've seen variously described as cottage/spoon/scuttle . I've read that by 1849 the brim, while still large in circumference, no longer extended very far out beyond the face, which seems consistent with the image . Other examples from the same year that I've seen had a straight top line rather than a break between the caul and brim. A ribbon trims the hat, more or less where the caul would turn into the brim if they were not continuous. So far so good. The plate doesn't show the back of the bonnet. Other examples from around the same time have some kind of fabric ruffle on the back at the bottom of the caul, coming forward as far as the ribbon trim. Here are my questions: 1) None of the real-life bonnets I've looked at is straw. On these other bonnets, the fabric ruffle is made of the same fashion fabric as the outside of the bonnet. Would a straw bonnet have the ruffle? What would it be made of on a straw hat? 2) The bonnet in the fashion plate has an elaborate bow and tassel trim on the visible side. Would there have been the same trim on both sides of the head ? Or just on one side? 3) There's something sort of poufy or ruffly going on inside the brim of the bonnet. Would the lining have been poufy or did fashionable women still wear caps under their bonnets in '49? 4) There are also flowers trimming the inside of the brim. Would those have been arranged the same way on both sides of the head, or asymmetrically? Thank you for any thoughts you might share! Best, Lauren - Original Message - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] PS: Oops: Re: 1849 millinery questions
It might have been this fashion plate instead: Fashion Plate: Lady Young Boys She's in a plaid gown with a row of passementerie tassles down the front of the skirt. Lady Young Boys She's in a plaid gown with a row of passementerie tassles down the front of the skirt. - Original Message - From: lauren walker lauren.wal...@comcast.net To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:55:44 PM Subject: [h-cost] 1849 millinery questions Hi, I'm working on a 1/12 scale (dollhouse miniature) of the outfit in an 1849 fashion plate. (If you've subscribed to the Costume Gallery, it's part of the Year in Fashion: 1949 collection, http://www.costumegallery.com/1849/ . It's the March 1849 Fashion Plate : Lady with Children .) I'm almost done with the gown and moving on to the bonne t. I am not very knowledgeable about 19th-century headwear, and am hoping someone with expertise can give me a clue or two or three . The bonnet appears to be straw, and I think it is more or less the typical shape of that decade, which I've seen variously described as cottage/spoon/scuttle . I've read that by 1849 the brim, while still large in circumference, no longer extended very far out beyond the face, which seems consistent with the image . Other examples from the same year that I've seen had a straight top line rather than a break between the caul and brim. A ribbon trims the hat, more or less where the caul would turn into the brim if they were not continuous. So far so good. The plate doesn't show the back of the bonnet. Other examples from around the same time have some kind of fabric ruffle on the back at the bottom of the caul, coming forward as far as the ribbon trim. Here are my questions: 1) None of the real-life bonnets I've looked at is straw. On these other bonnets, the fabric ruffle is made of the same fashion fabric as the outside of the bonnet. Would a straw bonnet have the ruffle? What would it be made of on a straw hat? 2) The bonnet in the fashion plate has an elaborate bow and tassel trim on the visible side. Would there have been the same trim on both sides of the head ? Or just on one side? 3) There's something sort of poufy or ruffly going on inside the brim of the bonnet. Would the lining have been poufy or did fashionable women still wear caps under their bonnets in '49? 4) There are also flowers trimming the inside of the brim. Would those have been arranged the same way on both sides of the head, or asymmetrically? Thank you for any thoughts you might share! Best, Lauren - Original Message - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1849 millinery questions
Hi Lauren, Welcome to millinary, a wonderful, terrible art. I can answer two of your questions. however, the question of symmetry (#2 and #4) depended on the year and the desire of the wearer. Sometimes symmetry was all, sometimes asymmetry was the way to go. Perhaps someone with more experience in 1849 fashion can help you there. However, yes, a straw bonnet would have that curtain in the back to cover your (naked!) neck. It could be made of the lining fabric or part of the trimming ribbon or even some of the fabric to match your dress. There's a French term that means 'curtain', can't remember it right now and that ruffle at the back is usually called by that name. The lining could have been shirred and look poofy or smooth against inside of the bonnet and/or (are you getting the terrible part yet?) she is wearing a cap. As soon as I wrote 'women always covered their hair' I remembered dozens of photographs of women whose hair showed. Best wishes on your project. I hope you'll take pictures and send us a link to admire. LynnD On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 1:55 PM, lauren.wal...@comcast.net wrote: Hi, I'm working on a 1/12 scale (dollhouse miniature) of the outfit in an 1849 fashion plate. (If you've subscribed to the Costume Gallery, it's part of the Year in Fashion: 1949 collection, http://www.costumegallery.com/1849/ . It's the March 1849 Fashion Plate : Lady with Children .) I'm almost done with the gown and moving on to the bonne t. I am not very knowledgeable about 19th-century headwear, and am hoping someone with expertise can give me a clue or two or three . The bonnet appears to be straw, and I think it is more or less the typical shape of that decade, which I've seen variously described as cottage/spoon/scuttle . I've read that by 1849 the brim, while still large in circumference, no longer extended very far out beyond the face, which seems consistent with the image . Other examples from the same year that I've seen had a straight top line rather than a break between the caul and brim. A ribbon trims the hat, more or less where the caul would turn into the brim if they were not continuous. So far so good. The plate doesn't show the back of the bonnet. Other examples from around the same time have some kind of fabric ruffle on the back at the bottom of the caul, coming forward as far as the ribbon trim. Here are my questions: 1) None of the real-life bonnets I've looked at is straw. On these other bonnets, the fabric ruffle is made of the same fashion fabric as the outside of the bonnet. Would a straw bonnet have the ruffle? What would it be made of on a straw hat? 2) The bonnet in the fashion plate has an elaborate bow and tassel trim on the visible side. Would there have been the same trim on both sides of the head ? Or just on one side? 3) There's something sort of poufy or ruffly going on inside the brim of the bonnet. Would the lining have been poufy or did fashionable women still wear caps under their bonnets in '49? 4) There are also flowers trimming the inside of the brim. Would those have been arranged the same way on both sides of the head, or asymmetrically? Thank you for any thoughts you might share! Best, Lauren - Original Message - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] PS: Oops: Re: 1849 millinery questions
I can't see the plate but... By '49 bonnets are indeed receding and not hiding the face so much are earlier ones. By the end of the year fashion plates are occasionally showing them opening up around the face too. Most fashion plates do still show a slight tip forward. The back hair being dressed high on the head necessitates/causes that forward tilt. Bavolets tended to be fairly short. They are constructed from just two pieces (in some straws that's more conceptual than literal) a tip and a brim, there is no shaping seam anyplace on the brim though on a few straws I have looked at there is just a bit of shaping @ where is would hit the top of the head. The Blackstone's from '49 has a bunch of plates which show bonnets really well, http://books.google.com/books?id=uD4FQAAJ (plates are all the way to the back). And both the MFA and Met have some nice bonnets, two to start off - http://www.mfa.org/collections/object/bonnet-119800, and http://www.metmuseum.org/Collections/search-the-collections/80108048?rpp=20pg=1ao=onft=bonnetwhen=A.D.+1800-1900what=Strawpos=9. Hope that helps some Beth A library is not a luxury but one of the necessities of life Henry Ward Beecher http://bookworm1860.blogspot.com/ - Original Message - From: lauren.wal...@comcast.net To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] PS: Oops: Re: 1849 millinery questions It might have been this fashion plate instead: Fashion Plate: Lady Young Boys She's in a plaid gown with a row of passementerie tassles down the front of the skirt. Lady Young Boys She's in a plaid gown with a row of passementerie tassles down the front of the skirt. - Original Message - From: lauren walker lauren.wal...@comcast.net To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Friday, July 27, 2012 4:55:44 PM Subject: [h-cost] 1849 millinery questions Hi, I'm working on a 1/12 scale (dollhouse miniature) of the outfit in an 1849 fashion plate. (If you've subscribed to the Costume Gallery, it's part of the Year in Fashion: 1949 collection, http://www.costumegallery.com/1849/ . It's the March 1849 Fashion Plate : Lady with Children .) I'm almost done with the gown and moving on to the bonne t. I am not very knowledgeable about 19th-century headwear, and am hoping someone with expertise can give me a clue or two or three . The bonnet appears to be straw, and I think it is more or less the typical shape of that decade, which I've seen variously described as cottage/spoon/scuttle . I've read that by 1849 the brim, while still large in circumference, no longer extended very far out beyond the face, which seems consistent with the image . Other examples from the same year that I've seen had a straight top line rather than a break between the caul and brim. A ribbon trims the hat, more or less where the caul would turn into the brim if they were not continuous. So far so good. The plate doesn't show the back of the bonnet. Other examples from around the same time have some kind of fabric ruffle on the back at the bottom of the caul, coming forward as far as the ribbon trim. Here are my questions: 1) None of the real-life bonnets I've looked at is straw. On these other bonnets, the fabric ruffle is made of the same fashion fabric as the outside of the bonnet. Would a straw bonnet have the ruffle? What would it be made of on a straw hat? 2) The bonnet in the fashion plate has an elaborate bow and tassel trim on the visible side. Would there have been the same trim on both sides of the head ? Or just on one side? 3) There's something sort of poufy or ruffly going on inside the brim of the bonnet. Would the lining have been poufy or did fashionable women still wear caps under their bonnets in '49? 4) There are also flowers trimming the inside of the brim. Would those have been arranged the same way on both sides of the head, or asymmetrically? Thank you for any thoughts you might share! Best, Lauren - Original Message - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
