Re: [h-cost] 1880s hair-styling terms: crimps and "fedoras"
Maybe these folks would have some answers? http://www.thehistoricalhairdresser.com/category.php?id_category=21&id_lang=1 The Fedora Lounge website seems to deal w/ a lot of fashion from that era, given some of their web pages, so you might find some knowledgeable folks there, if you haven't tried them already (I didn't do any real searching, as you have to sign up) -- here's a sample link: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/archive/index.php/t-12538.html KP On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Wanda Pease wrote: > The word fedora comes from an 1882 play by Victorien Sardou "Princess > Fedora" written for and performed by Sarah Bernhardt. During the play > Bernhardt, a notorious cross dresser wore a center creased soft hat that > eventually became a male affectation. > > I'd look for Sarah Bernhardt pictures with fluffy bangs since your heroine > seems to be unhappy with her high forehead showing, > > Regina > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jul 9, 2014, at 8:37 PM, Sybella wrote: > > > OH!! I forgot! I was going to give you one more link...old videos of > women > > doing their hair. I love this! > > > > http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/titanic/hair.htm > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 8:29 PM, Sybella wrote: > > > >> What a fun topic!!! Love vintage hair styling! And since my hair wont > hold > >> a heat curl for more than 35 minutes, I've explored a lot of no-heat > curl > >> options. :) > >> > >> A fedora is a particular style of hat. It was quite the norm to give > hats > >> a little treatment at the end of every use, especially in the case of > >> suede, felt or velvet, where a brushing not only knocks the dirt off but > >> refreshes the surface texture. People did this with garments too to get > a > >> little more wear out of them between washings, or to keep non-washable > >> garments clean. > >> > >> There are quite a number of ways to achieve curls, without modern > curling > >> irons, and women have been doing it since the dawn of time. To me, > "crimp" > >> implies more of a folded, zig-zag type curl than a round curl. Or at the > >> very least, tight and small curls. In the 1880s, many irons existed for > >> hair styling many of which would achieve a crimped look. Even a iron for > >> clothes could be used to curl hair. But I agree that the author is > implying > >> that it is a set and air dry style...and that the starring character is > >> being lazy with her beauty routine. LOL! > >> > >> What you suggested are all definite possibilities. While bobby pins are > a > >> newer invention, standard hair pins have been around since before the > birth > >> of Christ. In addition to pinning curls to your head like 40s pin curls, > >> hair pin curls could be achieved in the same way that hairpin crochet is > >> done; take a small strand, wrap it back and forth on the needles, pin > the > >> whole thing in place and let it dry. > >> > >> A twist set creates a more "crimped" look too. Either you take small > >> sections of hair and twist the sections together tightly. Or you take > one > >> section and twist it around something else. Then, once it is fully try, > you > >> carefully un-twist. It's all the same process, whether you use only your > >> own hair or wrap around something else. > > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1880s hair-styling terms: crimps and "fedoras"
The word fedora comes from an 1882 play by Victorien Sardou "Princess Fedora" written for and performed by Sarah Bernhardt. During the play Bernhardt, a notorious cross dresser wore a center creased soft hat that eventually became a male affectation. I'd look for Sarah Bernhardt pictures with fluffy bangs since your heroine seems to be unhappy with her high forehead showing, Regina Sent from my iPad On Jul 9, 2014, at 8:37 PM, Sybella wrote: > OH!! I forgot! I was going to give you one more link...old videos of women > doing their hair. I love this! > > http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/titanic/hair.htm > > > On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 8:29 PM, Sybella wrote: > >> What a fun topic!!! Love vintage hair styling! And since my hair wont hold >> a heat curl for more than 35 minutes, I've explored a lot of no-heat curl >> options. :) >> >> A fedora is a particular style of hat. It was quite the norm to give hats >> a little treatment at the end of every use, especially in the case of >> suede, felt or velvet, where a brushing not only knocks the dirt off but >> refreshes the surface texture. People did this with garments too to get a >> little more wear out of them between washings, or to keep non-washable >> garments clean. >> >> There are quite a number of ways to achieve curls, without modern curling >> irons, and women have been doing it since the dawn of time. To me, "crimp" >> implies more of a folded, zig-zag type curl than a round curl. Or at the >> very least, tight and small curls. In the 1880s, many irons existed for >> hair styling many of which would achieve a crimped look. Even a iron for >> clothes could be used to curl hair. But I agree that the author is implying >> that it is a set and air dry style...and that the starring character is >> being lazy with her beauty routine. LOL! >> >> What you suggested are all definite possibilities. While bobby pins are a >> newer invention, standard hair pins have been around since before the birth >> of Christ. In addition to pinning curls to your head like 40s pin curls, >> hair pin curls could be achieved in the same way that hairpin crochet is >> done; take a small strand, wrap it back and forth on the needles, pin the >> whole thing in place and let it dry. >> >> A twist set creates a more "crimped" look too. Either you take small >> sections of hair and twist the sections together tightly. Or you take one >> section and twist it around something else. Then, once it is fully try, you >> carefully un-twist. It's all the same process, whether you use only your >> own hair or wrap around something else. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] fedora
>From Wikipedia: The word fedora comes from the title of an 1882 play by dramatist Victorien Sardou, Fédora, written for Sarah Bernhardt.[3] The play was first performed in the United States in 1889. Bernhardt played Princess Fédora, the heroine of the play. During the play, Bernhardt, a notorious cross-dresser, wore a center-creased, soft brimmed hat. The Oxford English Dictionary says the word is American, and gives its first use in print in the 1895 Montgomery Wards catalog. So, I think Bernhardt is a good clue to follow. Kim (textile historian) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1880s hair-styling terms: crimps and "fedoras"
Interesting topic. Check out the photos of Bernhardt available to see first hand what variations of crimping might have meant in the 19th century. Some of the pics are theatrical and some are contemporary views of how the style was interpreted and worn on the street or the drawing room. SB as Fedora presents a hat style that was very feminine and to my mind does not approach the fedora that we can see in the early 20th C and on.Perhaps your use of fedoras would better describe net boudoir nets that would partly protect the hair while sleeping. Crimped hair was used to describe one feature (bangs) that was often referred to as "the Lunatic fringe". After about the age of 15, a big event was getting to put one's hair Up (mentioned in a James Barrie play) and thereafter, long unkempt hair, crimped or no, was suitable only in the boudoir.Even the style called "the Waterfall" had more formal arrangement and was often augmented with extensions (modern equivalent). (Prom and wedding 'do's' of the 1950s-80s) . Rag curls, or paper curls were also made with skinny leather tubes in casing wire. The hair was wrapped and kept firm by looping. (I have a handful of these in my hair-care stash)Wet-to-dry method. Kathleen Mitchell . From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com on behalf of Megan McHugh Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 6:03 AM To: Costume Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] 1880s hair-styling terms: crimps and "fedoras" No historical knowledge here of hairstyles, but we used to "crimp" our hair without heat by braiding it into many small braids while wet, and taking down the braids when dry. Not sure if it was done historically, but it was easy to do, and I was a bit surprised to not see this method of crimping mentioned in the various videos people have posted. Is crimping with braiding a modern invention? Curious. -Megan On Jul 9, 2014, at 10:00 PM, Elena House wrote: > I'm writing a novella set in 1887 with three teenage girls as the main > characters, and as a result I've been doing research into the slang & pop > culture and so forth of the time period in New England. The 1880s are Not > My Era, and I've run across a term-and-a-half that confuse me. > > Here's the passage, from "The Familiar Letters of Peppermint Perkins", with > the terms and phrases ***starred***. > > -- > I did begin that very night by not ***doing up any crimps.*** I was going > to wear my hair like Clara's. She never wears any crimps. Runover girls > never do, though they have never advanced any sufficiently good reason to > me for not crimping it, for they all look like old fuds with it so, and > they spend just as much and more time brushing and smoothing it ***at night > than I do on my "Fedoras."*** > > Well, I was going to say I didn't do up any; but about three o'clock I woke > up and remembered that I had promised to go skating with Charlie Brood out > to Jamaica the next morning, and I knew any amount of self-improvement > wouldn't make up for the absence of crimps in his eyes, so I just snaked > out of bed and ***up with two "Fedoras;"*** but no sooner had I got them up > than my conscience began to reproach me for my weakness, and after I got > back into bed I determined that even Charlie Brood's criticisms shouldn't > influence me, and I began to take them down; but you see I was so sleepy, > getting up so suddenly (it all was like a dream), that I only got one down > before I dropped to sleep, and the next morning you ought to have seen what > a fright I looked. You know how high my forehead is, and shiny. Well, > there I was with all that shining expanse and ***one little bob on the left > temple***, and I overslept on account of getting up so, and was late, and > before I could do anything Charlie Brood was after me. > -- > > The crimps part I only find partially confusing; I'm familiar with crimping > as something one does to curl one's hair with hot irons, but not as an > overnight treatment. Is this a reference to putting one's hair in rags? > Leaving it in braids overnight for braid curls? Something with hairpins? > Or...? > > The one that really confuses me, though, is the "Fedoras." What on earth > are these? The context makes it seem pretty clear that this is either > another method of creating curls overnight or another name for overnight > crimps, but what is the actual method, and what does the result look like? > Or, does the name perhaps refer to the location of the resulting curls, > rather than the method? > > Any ideas? > > -E House > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-cost
Re: [h-cost] 1880s hair-styling terms: crimps and "fedoras"
No historical knowledge here of hairstyles, but we used to "crimp" our hair without heat by braiding it into many small braids while wet, and taking down the braids when dry. Not sure if it was done historically, but it was easy to do, and I was a bit surprised to not see this method of crimping mentioned in the various videos people have posted. Is crimping with braiding a modern invention? Curious. -Megan On Jul 9, 2014, at 10:00 PM, Elena House wrote: > I'm writing a novella set in 1887 with three teenage girls as the main > characters, and as a result I've been doing research into the slang & pop > culture and so forth of the time period in New England. The 1880s are Not > My Era, and I've run across a term-and-a-half that confuse me. > > Here's the passage, from "The Familiar Letters of Peppermint Perkins", with > the terms and phrases ***starred***. > > -- > I did begin that very night by not ***doing up any crimps.*** I was going > to wear my hair like Clara's. She never wears any crimps. Runover girls > never do, though they have never advanced any sufficiently good reason to > me for not crimping it, for they all look like old fuds with it so, and > they spend just as much and more time brushing and smoothing it ***at night > than I do on my "Fedoras."*** > > Well, I was going to say I didn't do up any; but about three o'clock I woke > up and remembered that I had promised to go skating with Charlie Brood out > to Jamaica the next morning, and I knew any amount of self-improvement > wouldn't make up for the absence of crimps in his eyes, so I just snaked > out of bed and ***up with two "Fedoras;"*** but no sooner had I got them up > than my conscience began to reproach me for my weakness, and after I got > back into bed I determined that even Charlie Brood's criticisms shouldn't > influence me, and I began to take them down; but you see I was so sleepy, > getting up so suddenly (it all was like a dream), that I only got one down > before I dropped to sleep, and the next morning you ought to have seen what > a fright I looked. You know how high my forehead is, and shiny. Well, > there I was with all that shining expanse and ***one little bob on the left > temple***, and I overslept on account of getting up so, and was late, and > before I could do anything Charlie Brood was after me. > -- > > The crimps part I only find partially confusing; I'm familiar with crimping > as something one does to curl one's hair with hot irons, but not as an > overnight treatment. Is this a reference to putting one's hair in rags? > Leaving it in braids overnight for braid curls? Something with hairpins? > Or...? > > The one that really confuses me, though, is the "Fedoras." What on earth > are these? The context makes it seem pretty clear that this is either > another method of creating curls overnight or another name for overnight > crimps, but what is the actual method, and what does the result look like? > Or, does the name perhaps refer to the location of the resulting curls, > rather than the method? > > Any ideas? > > -E House > ___ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 1880s hair-styling terms: crimps and "fedoras"
Thank you. I wasn't sure how much was between the two passages. :) LOL! I am beginning to think the two fedoras bit is a nonsensical dream sequence and we're trying to see the illogical logically. This one is supposed to be Sarah. You may have found it already but it was the only Sarah in a fedora picture I could find, from a French blog entry from 2011 on "the trendy fedora." http://maniadeguria.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/sarah-bernhardt.jpg Although the brim does look a little small. Fedora or not, I think she looks lovely! And, I'm loving that coat. If nothing else, you gotta check out the cut of the sleeves. :) I think the wiki page labeled Sarah as a "notorious cross-dresser." So maybe the manly noir men in are indeed wearing a gender appropriate hat. :P Sorry I wasn't more help. If the writer is truly talking about a styling aid, I'm totally at a loss! Thank you for bringing up this topic though. I'm enjoying it immensely! :D On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 12:07 AM, Elena House wrote: > Those were both part of one continuous passage; in context, she's getting > ready for bed, then waking up in the middle of the night--no hats involved! > In the previous paragraphs, the writer was talking about how girls from > Runover (which seems to be some sort of prep school or college) feel > superior because they're too high-minded to crimp their hair, but spend > just as much time brushing their hair as they would have spent crimping it. > > > Anyway, in context, definitely not a hat type of fedora, which makes it all > the weirder! :) > > It was published in 1886, although it's written as a series of letters; > this one is dated January 1885. > > -E House > > > > On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 1:35 AM, Sybella wrote: > > > Hm. I see what you mean. In the first reference, the comparison is made > > about the time spent brushing hair vs brushing the hat clean. And in the > > next, she's using the hat to hide her unstyled hair because she was too > > "lazy" to set it. She was saying that Charlie would be disappointed with > > her for not having her hair done. But it does say two fedoras, and that > she > > fell back asleep with one side undone. Unless she's splitting it down the > > middle, doing a quick twisted bun on each side, and putting the hat > over, I > > don't know how she'd get two hats on her head. > > > > What year was that written?? Maybe there was a styling hair tool called a > > fedora. > > > > And I'm loving the Sarah B story. I'm going to have to research that > > tonight. :D > > > > I would like to add this though. If you're planning on wearing a hat, you > > do have to style your hair with the hat in mind. The hat influences the > > style, for sure. I'm not sure if there was ever a hair style that was a > > "fedora style" but depending on the shape of the hat, or where it sits on > > the head, styling it "right" is everything. > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Elena House wrote: > > > > > Thanks; lovely resources. I'm definitely familiar with the fedora as a > > > hat; I've just never heard of it as a hair styling technique before, > > hence > > > my curiosity! > > > > > > Thanks to Google books and the Ngram viewer (hugely useful for > > etymological > > > study), I've managed to track down a possible link. The fedora was > named > > > after the hat that Sarah Bernhardt wore during an 1882 play called > > Fedora. > > > (Meaning that all those manly men in noir movies were wearing a girl's > > > hat...) Perhaps the hairstyle she wore during the play ALSO started a > > > fashion for a particular style of curls, and the girl in that passage I > > > quoted was setting her curls into the particular style that Sarah B > wore > > > during the play; it sounds like it must have been one really tight curl > > per > > > side, covering the forehead. (Sadly, I've been unable to find a photo > of > > > Sarah B in the original fedora hat with her fedora curls.) > > > > > > Also, I've come to the conclusion that 'crimp' and 'curl' were being > used > > > as interchangeable words. > > > > > > -E House > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 11:37 PM, Sybella wrote: > > > > > > > OH!! I forgot! I was going to give you one more link...old videos of > > > women > > > > doing their hair. I love this! > > > > > > > > http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/titanic/hair.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 8:29 PM, Sybella wrote: > > > > > > > > > What a fun topic!!! Love vintage hair styling! And since my hair > wont > > > > hold > > > > > a heat curl for more than 35 minutes, I've explored a lot of > no-heat > > > curl > > > > > options. :) > > > > > > > > > > A fedora is a particular style of hat. It was quite the norm to > give > > > hats > > > > > a little treatment at the end of every use, especially in the case > of > > > > > suede, felt or velvet, where a brushing not only knocks the dirt > off > > > but > > > > > refreshes the surface texture. People did this with garments too to > >
Re: [h-cost] 1880s hair-styling terms: crimps and "fedoras"
Those were both part of one continuous passage; in context, she's getting ready for bed, then waking up in the middle of the night--no hats involved! In the previous paragraphs, the writer was talking about how girls from Runover (which seems to be some sort of prep school or college) feel superior because they're too high-minded to crimp their hair, but spend just as much time brushing their hair as they would have spent crimping it. Anyway, in context, definitely not a hat type of fedora, which makes it all the weirder! :) It was published in 1886, although it's written as a series of letters; this one is dated January 1885. -E House On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 1:35 AM, Sybella wrote: > Hm. I see what you mean. In the first reference, the comparison is made > about the time spent brushing hair vs brushing the hat clean. And in the > next, she's using the hat to hide her unstyled hair because she was too > "lazy" to set it. She was saying that Charlie would be disappointed with > her for not having her hair done. But it does say two fedoras, and that she > fell back asleep with one side undone. Unless she's splitting it down the > middle, doing a quick twisted bun on each side, and putting the hat over, I > don't know how she'd get two hats on her head. > > What year was that written?? Maybe there was a styling hair tool called a > fedora. > > And I'm loving the Sarah B story. I'm going to have to research that > tonight. :D > > I would like to add this though. If you're planning on wearing a hat, you > do have to style your hair with the hat in mind. The hat influences the > style, for sure. I'm not sure if there was ever a hair style that was a > "fedora style" but depending on the shape of the hat, or where it sits on > the head, styling it "right" is everything. > > > On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 9:59 PM, Elena House wrote: > > > Thanks; lovely resources. I'm definitely familiar with the fedora as a > > hat; I've just never heard of it as a hair styling technique before, > hence > > my curiosity! > > > > Thanks to Google books and the Ngram viewer (hugely useful for > etymological > > study), I've managed to track down a possible link. The fedora was named > > after the hat that Sarah Bernhardt wore during an 1882 play called > Fedora. > > (Meaning that all those manly men in noir movies were wearing a girl's > > hat...) Perhaps the hairstyle she wore during the play ALSO started a > > fashion for a particular style of curls, and the girl in that passage I > > quoted was setting her curls into the particular style that Sarah B wore > > during the play; it sounds like it must have been one really tight curl > per > > side, covering the forehead. (Sadly, I've been unable to find a photo of > > Sarah B in the original fedora hat with her fedora curls.) > > > > Also, I've come to the conclusion that 'crimp' and 'curl' were being used > > as interchangeable words. > > > > -E House > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 11:37 PM, Sybella wrote: > > > > > OH!! I forgot! I was going to give you one more link...old videos of > > women > > > doing their hair. I love this! > > > > > > http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/titanic/hair.htm > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 8:29 PM, Sybella wrote: > > > > > > > What a fun topic!!! Love vintage hair styling! And since my hair wont > > > hold > > > > a heat curl for more than 35 minutes, I've explored a lot of no-heat > > curl > > > > options. :) > > > > > > > > A fedora is a particular style of hat. It was quite the norm to give > > hats > > > > a little treatment at the end of every use, especially in the case of > > > > suede, felt or velvet, where a brushing not only knocks the dirt off > > but > > > > refreshes the surface texture. People did this with garments too to > > get a > > > > little more wear out of them between washings, or to keep > non-washable > > > > garments clean. > > > > > > > > There are quite a number of ways to achieve curls, without modern > > curling > > > > irons, and women have been doing it since the dawn of time. To me, > > > "crimp" > > > > implies more of a folded, zig-zag type curl than a round curl. Or at > > the > > > > very least, tight and small curls. In the 1880s, many irons existed > for > > > > hair styling many of which would achieve a crimped look. Even a iron > > for > > > > clothes could be used to curl hair. But I agree that the author is > > > implying > > > > that it is a set and air dry style...and that the starring character > is > > > > being lazy with her beauty routine. LOL! > > > > > > > > What you suggested are all definite possibilities. While bobby pins > > are a > > > > newer invention, standard hair pins have been around since before the > > > birth > > > > of Christ. In addition to pinning curls to your head like 40s pin > > curls, > > > > hair pin curls could be achieved in the same way that hairpin crochet > > is > > > > done; take a small strand, wrap it back and forth on the needles, pin > > the > >
