Re: [h-cost] - sergers
Many thanks to Suzi, Kimiko, and others of this List who have clarified for my House and I just what a serger does, and what use such a machine might be for us in ourThird Age living-history hobby. From your comments I suspect a serger might be a substantial time-saver - since all of the garb we make is only to pass the 10-foot Rule [ if it looks OK from 10 feet away, that's good enough - so using a serger on interior seams sound good to us], - we have so many projects we wish to accomplish in the limited time budgets ofour declining years that we have given-up the idea of trying for museum-replica quality in our equipment. Tnhaks once again, Matthew Baker [aka Julian Wilson in 2008] --- On Sat, 29/11/08, Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] - sergers To: Historical Costume [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, 29 November, 2008, 12:25 PM At 11:28 29/11/2008, you wrote: Gentles of the Historic costume List, just for the education of my House, who are still muddling along making medieval garb and other fabric items, using a collection of fully-serviced, secondhand but older [i.e. - no computers] domestic sewing machines, -  would any Gentle of the List explain to us [ and other beginners similarly ignorant] what is the difference between a serger and a normal domestic machine; - and what are the advantages of having a serger for use in the making of replica historical fabric items? I have done an internet search - but - due to my online ineptitude, I have no doubt, - have not found any answers we can readily understand. with thanks for your clarifications, Lord Matthew Baker, of the SCA-[UK] A serger is what we in England call an overlocker. If you are making authentic method clothing you do not need one. It stitches over the edge of your fabric, usually cutting off any surplus fabric outside the stitch line and leaving a neat edge. You will find such an edge on most seams of most modern garments. The over edge stitch can also be done by hand, a more authentic solution for a period garment. The idea is no neaten the edge and prevent it from fraying. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
At 15:50 30/11/2008, you wrote: Many thanks to Suzi, Kimiko, and others of this List who have clarified for my House and I just what a serger does, and what use such a machine might be for us in ourThird Age living-history hobby. From your comments I suspect a serger might be a substantial time-saver - since all of the garb we make is only to pass the 10-foot Rule [ if it looks OK from 10 feet away, that's good enough - so using a serger on interior seams sound good to us], - we have so many projects we wish to accomplish in the limited time budgets ofour declining years that we have given-up the idea of trying for museum-replica quality in our equipment. Tnhaks once again,  Matthew Baker [aka Julian Wilson in 2008] In that case, see if you can find a second hand industrial Singer or Jones or Bernina. They are sturdier that those made for the domestic market and although tricky to thread sometimes, seem to do a better job, in my opinion. I have a second hand 3 thread Singer industrial I bought over 20 years ago, and the only time it had to be fixed was when I sewed over a pin and threw the timing off and blunted the blade that cuts the fabric. Three threads gives you a finished edge, by the way, and is the basic minimum - in my opinion you really don't need anything with more threads, if all you want to do is finish edges. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
Suzi, Just a point of note - If you are to make impeccably accurate costumes of a pre-industrial period then there were no overlockers (sergers), but I would still use it to make good quality clothing. :) One function I find my overlocker is really useful for is rolled hems... were rolled hems used on clothing prior to 1901? Sidney P.S. Thanks to all those who responded to my earlier email on costume books, thanks, order going in for Christmas shortly. On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 2:26 AM, Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 15:50 30/11/2008, you wrote: Many thanks to Suzi, Kimiko, and others of this List who have clarified for my House and I just what a serger does, and what use such a machine might be for us in ourThird Age living-history hobby. From your comments I suspect a serger might be a substantial time-saver - since all of the garb we make is only to pass the 10-foot Rule [ if it looks OK from 10 feet away, that's good enough - so using a serger on interior seams sound good to us], - we have so many projects we wish to accomplish in the limited time budgets ofour declining years that we have given-up the idea of trying for museum-replica quality in our equipment. Tnhaks once again,  Matthew Baker [aka Julian Wilson in 2008] In that case, see if you can find a second hand industrial Singer or Jones or Bernina. They are sturdier that those made for the domestic market and although tricky to thread sometimes, seem to do a better job, in my opinion. I have a second hand 3 thread Singer industrial I bought over 20 years ago, and the only time it had to be fixed was when I sewed over a pin and threw the timing off and blunted the blade that cuts the fabric. Three threads gives you a finished edge, by the way, and is the basic minimum - in my opinion you really don't need anything with more threads, if all you want to do is finish edges. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
At 21:21 30/11/2008, you wrote: Suzi, Just a point of note - If you are to make impeccably accurate costumes of a pre-industrial period then there were no overlockers (sergers), but I would still use it to make good quality clothing. :) I did actually make that point in my comment A serger is what we in England call an overlocker. If you are making authentic method clothing you do not need one. It stitches over the edge of your fabric, usually cutting off any surplus fabric outside the stitch line and leaving a neat edge. You will find such an edge on most seams of most modern garments. The over edge stitch can also be done by hand, a more authentic solution for a period garment. The idea is no neaten the edge and prevent it from fraying. One function I find my overlocker is really useful for is rolled hems were rolled hems used on clothing prior to 1901? Not my overlocker - it simply overlocks - no fancy finishes. My comments to the gentleman in Jersey were based on the fact that they do not have the time or the expertise to finish their costumes, which I believe are WOTR period, and he thought it would be useful, even though not historically accurate, to have one. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
--- On Sun, 11/30/08, Sid Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One function I find my overlocker is really useful for is rolled hems... were rolled hems used on clothing prior to 1901? Hand rolled hems have been seen in extant medieval garments, mostly on veils, I believe from the books I've read and what I retained from them. I am sure others more knowledgeable on this list could tell you exactly what garments had hand rolled hems. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
On Sunday 30 November 2008 6:51:07 pm Kimiko Small wrote: --- On Sun, 11/30/08, Sid Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One function I find my overlocker is really useful for is rolled hems... were rolled hems used on clothing prior to 1901? Hand rolled hems have been seen in extant medieval garments, mostly on veils, I believe from the books I've read and what I retained from them. I am sure others more knowledgeable on this list could tell you exactly what garments had hand rolled hems. That's right. I remember a few rolled hems from the Viking era. (Of course, those and the medieval examples were done by hand, not with sergers/overlockers.) :-) -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] The heresy of one age becomes the orthodoxy of the next. --Helen Keller ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
julian wilson wrote: Gentles of the Historic costume List, just for the education of my House, who are still muddling along making medieval garb and other fabric items, using a collection of fully-serviced, secondhand but older [i.e. - no computers] domestic sewing machines, - would any Gentle of the List explain to us [ and other beginners similarly ignorant] what is the difference between a serger and a normal domestic machine; - and what are the advantages of having a serger for use in the making of replica historical fabric items? I have done an internet search - but - due to my online ineptitude, I have no doubt, - have not found any answers we can readily understand. with thanks for your clarifications, Lord Matthew Baker, of the SCA-[UK] You've got some mostly good information from others on the list. A few years back I wrote an introductory article on sergers; it's still up at: http://tinyurl.com/3xpw2a The folks who talk about sergers not being appropriate for historical costume are short-sighted. They are entirely appropriate for early 20th century manufactured clothing recreation. andy ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
Gentles of the Historic costume List, just for the education of my House, who are still muddling along making medieval garb and other fabric items, using a collection of fully-serviced, secondhand but older [i.e. - no computers] domestic sewing machines, - would any Gentle of the List explain to us [ and other beginners similarly ignorant] what is the difference between a serger and a normal domestic machine; - and what are the advantages of having a serger for use in the making of replica historical fabric items? I have done an internet search - but - due to my online ineptitude, I have no doubt, - have not found any answers we can readily understand. with thanks for your clarifications, Lord Matthew Baker, of the SCA-[UK] --- On Sat, 29/11/08, Zuzana Kraemerova [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Zuzana Kraemerova [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Toyota sergers To: h-costume h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Saturday, 29 November, 2008, 10:32 AM Hi, This might be OT, but I really don't know where else to ask and I haven't found any reviews - my friend is a beginning to intermediate sewer, but she doesn't have any sewing machine except for a badly-working, loud Singer. She wants to take a step forward and buy a new machine. She would also dream of a serger, but buying two machines would take her out of her budget. I've just seen someone selling a brand new Toyota serger for $125!! http://www.strickmaschine.de/machines/over/700-620.htm I know Toyotas are not the top brand, but what do you think - would it be worth the price? Do you have any experience with this brand? Would you buy this serger and replace it perhaps later for a better machine, when your sewing skills would improve? Thanks for advice, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
At 11:28 29/11/2008, you wrote: Gentles of the Historic costume List, just for the education of my House, who are still muddling along making medieval garb and other fabric items, using a collection of fully-serviced, secondhand but older [i.e. - no computers] domestic sewing machines, -  would any Gentle of the List explain to us [ and other beginners similarly ignorant] what is the difference between a serger and a normal domestic machine; - and what are the advantages of having a serger for use in the making of replica historical fabric items? I have done an internet search - but - due to my online ineptitude, I have no doubt, - have not found any answers we can readily understand. with thanks for your clarifications, Lord Matthew Baker, of the SCA-[UK] A serger is what we in England call an overlocker. If you are making authentic method clothing you do not need one. It stitches over the edge of your fabric, usually cutting off any surplus fabric outside the stitch line and leaving a neat edge. You will find such an edge on most seams of most modern garments. The over edge stitch can also be done by hand, a more authentic solution for a period garment. The idea is no neaten the edge and prevent it from fraying. Suzi ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
-- On Sat, 29/11/08, Suzi Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11:28 29/11/2008, you wrote: Gentles of the Historic costume List, just for the education of my House, who are still muddling along making medieval garb SNIPPED FOR BREVITY with thanks for your clarifications, Lord Matthew Baker, of the SCA-[UK] A serger is what we in England call an overlocker. SNIPPED FOR BREVITY The over edge stitch can also be done by hand, a more authentic solution for a period garment. The idea is no neaten the edge and prevent it from fraying. Suzi THANKS - TYVM, Suzi Season's greetings to you and yours, Matthew - ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] - sergers
--- On Sat, 11/29/08, julian wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip what are the advantages of having a serger for use in the making of replica historical fabric items? snip Greetings Lord Matthew, It took me many years to actually acquire a serger/overlocker for my historical costumes, which I ended up buying a low-end Brother for my simple needs. It works well for finishing edges, like I have for my skirts, since I don't always fully line my skirts, depending on fabric. I have one early 16th century linen camping dress where I hand sewed the bodice completely, but serged machine stitched the skirt, since I found that I do not have the time or patience to hand sew long seams like on skirts. And since I wanted the dress for the heat of the summer, the skirts are not lined. I did hand sew the hem up (serged the edge, then turned once), and hand sewed the skirt to the edge of the bodice. The serged edges help to prevent the fraying that linen otherwise loves to do. That said, I most often use a serger when making modern clothing or costumes for my kids, and it has helped speed up the finishing of edges before I sew the pieces together with my regular sewing machine. My daughters velvet dress is nicely finished for the most part, although I did forget to finish some parts, which need to be done now by hand. So, in my limited experience, it works best as a time saving edge finisher when I am not concerned with 100% historically accurate costumes or I am making modern garments. It otherwise collects dust (thankfully it is usually covered). My main sewing machine is used a lot more. Kimiko (aka Joan Silvertoppe in the SCA) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sergers past topics
--- Melanie Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (now Asst. Prof. of Costume Design, Eastern Michigan University) Congratulations! Joannah. _ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sergers past topics
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006, angelalazear wrote: Can anyone take a moment to instruct me as to how to pull up our old topic threads? No help from me on sergers -- I've never used one -- but to find the archives, follow the directions on the h-cost info page, URL at the bottom of all messages: http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume When you get to the archive page, do be sure to read the directions. It is not your typical search engine; it was set up by listmember Eric Praetzel, as a public service (for which we should thank him many times over!). You can also find more recent archives at a parallel site on gmane, which began in June 2005: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.culture.studies.history.costume ...or at yet another online archive, here, which began around that same time, I think: http://www.mail-archive.com/h-costume@mail.indra.com/info.html --Robin ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sergers past topics
angelalazear wrote: Listies, Can anyone take a moment to instruct me as to how to pull up our old topic threads? (I need the url as well) I am finally in the research phase of purchasing a serger, and I believe that was a recent topic here. Any other resource for info on sergers would be appreciated. I've been to many sewing machine sites, but they are really short on the info I'm looking for. I've only had my white (I think it's a white 2000) for a year and a half, but it works pretty well - once I got used to the vagaries of serging. Im told that White, since it's a division of Viking, the motor is made by Jaguar. Consumer reports has it as a Best Buy. I bought mine through allbrands.com - they have it for $269 -Judy Mitchell ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sergers past topics
My hobbylock 784 was purchased about 15years ago, at the time it was well over 1000$, but I'm sure they've come down in price. It's been put through it paces working in several professional shops, carted back and forth to classes I've taught and is still running smooth and strong, with only a minor repair of a screw other than regular cleaning and timing check. It's relatively small for a 4 thread, and easy as pie to thread! Hope that helps! Kelly Size (must be small as possible, I have very limited space) Ease of threading Sturdiness (I am a theatrical costumer, so my machines take a beating) Cost (would prefer not to spend over $500) thanks! + Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech... All's Well That Ends Well 1.1.65-6, Countess to Bertram W. Shakespeare http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sergers past topics
angelalazear wrote: I've heard Juki's are good, but are they worth the hefty price tag? I'm going to use it for edging costumes only, so probably don't need a lot of fancy stitches. I love Jukis, despite the price. I've used them in two academic shops so far, and they are fab! The shop I'm in now had two sergers, one Singer and one other (White, maybe?) that were relatively new but always choking up, sucking trimmed-off edges back in, breaking threads, and losing stitches. Everyone breathed a sigh of relief when we got the Juki. I've had my personal Juki for 15 years and have never once had a problem with it. It will chomp through a ridiculous number of layers (when I was a professional cutter/draper, I once brought home a costume that the sergers at work couldn't handle). Melanie Schuessler (now Asst. Prof. of Costume Design, Eastern Michigan University) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Sergers past topics
On my son's school site, someone was offering a serger. Yamato Industrial 5 thread overlock serger. Asking $350.00. I'm not sure if it's still available. if you are interested, contact me directly at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sharon Collier -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of angelalazear Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 10:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [h-cost] Sergers past topics Listies, Can anyone take a moment to instruct me as to how to pull up our old topic threads? (I need the url as well) I am finally in the research phase of purchasing a serger, and I believe that was a recent topic here. Any other resource for info on sergers would be appreciated. I've been to many sewing machine sites, but they are really short on the info I'm looking for. I've heard Juki's are good, but are they worth the hefty price tag? I'm going to use it for edging costumes only, so probably don't need a lot of fancy stitches. I have a few criterium, in order of importance: Size (must be small as possible, I have very limited space) Ease of threading Sturdiness (I am a theatrical costumer, so my machines take a beating) Cost (would prefer not to spend over $500) thanks! + Angela F. Lazear Cabbage Rose Costumes Theatrical Costume Design Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech... All's Well That Ends Well 1.1.65-6, Countess to Bertram W. Shakespeare http://www.cabbagerosecostumes.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] sergers
Interesting thread on the history of overlock machines. I can probably save you some effort in the Husqvarna department--as far as I know, sergers are not manufactured by sewing machine companies. They are all made in various factories in China, Korea, and perhaps Japan. When you buy a serger labelled Singer or Viking or Bernina, whatever, it has been made NOT in their facotry, but to their specifications by one of the serger manufacturers. Kim (ex-sewing machine and serger dealer) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] sergers-Juki?
What about Juki? Kate -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kim baird Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 11:57 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] sergers Interesting thread on the history of overlock machines. I can probably save you some effort in the Husqvarna department--as far as I know, sergers are not manufactured by sewing machine companies. They are all made in various factories in China, Korea, and perhaps Japan. When you buy a serger labelled Singer or Viking or Bernina, whatever, it has been made NOT in their facotry, but to their specifications by one of the serger manufacturers. Kim (ex-sewing machine and serger dealer) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] sergers-Juki?
Good question. I know they make sergers, but evidently they make other sewing machines as well as other industrial equipment. I THINK they may have gotten into the domestic machine market after their beginnings in industrial machines. Anybody know? Kim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kate Pinner Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 11:29 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: RE: [h-cost] sergers-Juki? What about Juki? Kate -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kim baird Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 11:57 AM To: 'Historical Costume' Subject: [h-cost] sergers Interesting thread on the history of overlock machines. I can probably save you some effort in the Husqvarna department--as far as I know, sergers are not manufactured by sewing machine companies. They are all made in various factories in China, Korea, and perhaps Japan. When you buy a serger labelled Singer or Viking or Bernina, whatever, it has been made NOT in their facotry, but to their specifications by one of the serger manufacturers. Kim (ex-sewing machine and serger dealer) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
