Re: [h-cost] 15th century hose - codpiece
Thank you for your suggestions - I also thought the opening must be way lower than the regular fly. I also examined carefully the sketch of the codpiece in pattern cutting for men's costume (great book, by the way) and I found the triangle is inserted just at the point the inner seam and crotch seam meet and is sewn between the legs - some inches after that it goes into the codpiece and opening or attachment of the codpiece is really 1-2 inches lower than the modern fly. This arose another question - the triangle that's to be inserted between the legs actually adds more room. There can be more room between the legs for movement, but not extra room in the lower part of the front section - it would make the hose too loose at the hips. Am I right to cut off a bit of the front part to accomodate this? It would cause a small gap (equal the width of the triangle) in the front seam, but that's - I think - right. It will be covered by the codpiece anyway - the vidible gap part will be just about 2 above the codpiece: http://www.brodec.org/malesov_2007/slides/P1030813.html (The hose is really terrible, but I put it here just to show what I mean with the gap) The only thing that confuses me is that neither Thursfield nor E.Friendship suggest cutting off the front part because of the inserted triangle. What do you think? Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 15th century hose - codpiece
What I actually think is that you need to fit the codpiece to the wearer. If it's too big someplace, make it smaller there, and if it's too small someplace, make it bigger there. Not helpful, I guess, but I personally rely on fitting and pattern-draping rather than drafting and book-measurements. I'm awful with drafting patterns, and only start with existing patterns, going directly to a live body from there, and start draping to fit. Thanks for the images. They look like they were taken in a real historical building. And everyone looks very much like they stepped out of a painting. What do you think? Zuzana -- Carolyn Kayta Barrows -- Blank paper is God's way of saying it ain't so easy being God. -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 15th century hose - codpiece
I'm not quite sure what you mean, but I think the answer is that the codpiece overlaps the front of the hose pieces, it doesn't fit edge to edge. The hose may meet or not, the codpiece just covers if they don't meet. Can you tell me what the badge is that the gentleman in the hose is wearing? Jean On 21/04/2009, Zuzana Kraemerova zkraemer...@yahoo.com wrote: Thank you for your suggestions - I also thought the opening must be way lower than the regular fly. I also examined carefully the sketch of the codpiece in pattern cutting for men's costume (great book, by the way) and I found the triangle is inserted just at the point the inner seam and crotch seam meet and is sewn between the legs - some inches after that it goes into the codpiece and opening or attachment of the codpiece is really 1-2 inches lower than the modern fly. This arose another question - the triangle that's to be inserted between the legs actually adds more room. There can be more room between the legs for movement, but not extra room in the lower part of the front section - it would make the hose too loose at the hips. Am I right to cut off a bit of the front part to accomodate this? It would cause a small gap (equal the width of the triangle) in the front seam, but that's - I think - right. It will be covered by the codpiece anyway - the vidible gap part will be just about 2 above the codpiece: http://www.brodec.org/malesov_2007/slides/P1030813.html (The hose is really terrible, but I put it here just to show what I mean with the gap) The only thing that confuses me is that neither Thursfield nor E.Friendship suggest cutting off the front part because of the inserted triangle. What do you think? Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] 15th century hose - codpiece
Hi, I am constantly solving one problem and as a woman I cannot really guess and I am afraid to ask the customers...:-) Well, I am making 15th century hose and am wondering as where to exactly place the codpiece. The style of the hose is like here (the second man from the left): http://www.companie-of-st-george.ch/cms/sitefiles/short_costume_guide_plate_one_larger.jpeg Sarah Thursfield gives me an idea of shape, but I don't really know where the codpiece should begin - there is a gusset between the legs which end up with the codpiece. But I can't figure out where exactly that place is - id it in the same point that the regular opening on men's hose is? Or lower? Can I calculate it somehow (distance from the crotch depth line or something)? Thanks for help, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 15th century hose - codpiece
I've only had to make them for 16th century clothing, but I found that it is usually starts lower than we think they need to be. The first time I put a simple codpiece on, it ended up way too high and ended up almost at the waist level at the upper end. So I've found that to be most accurate in placement, the hose need to actually be on the man they are to be worn by, along with the doublet if needed for visual placement cues. This can be... uncomfortable in some situations. But by then I had to pin fit a male client into his full hose mockup, so the ice was already broken. It helped that I had another friend of mine in the room as well both times, and we all chatted like nothing was going on. Kimiko --- On Mon, 4/20/09, Zuzana Kraemerova zkraemer...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Zuzana Kraemerova zkraemer...@yahoo.com Subject: [h-cost] 15th century hose - codpiece To: h-costume h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 11:30 AM Hi, I am constantly solving one problem and as a woman I cannot really guess and I am afraid to ask the customers...:-) Well, I am making 15th century hose and am wondering as where to exactly place the codpiece. The style of the hose is like here (the second man from the left): http://www.companie-of-st-george.ch/cms/sitefiles/short_costume_guide_plate_one_larger.jpeg Sarah Thursfield gives me an idea of shape, but I don't really know where the codpiece should begin - there is a gusset between the legs which end up with the codpiece. But I can't figure out where exactly that place is - id it in the same point that the regular opening on men's hose is? Or lower? Can I calculate it somehow (distance from the crotch depth line or something)? Thanks for help, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] 15th century hose - codpiece
years ago I fitted one on my fiance, and he was more sensitive to where the pins were going than to anything else. But yeah, an inch or two lower than where the zipper on trousers go. Make it big enough to fit a tangerine and it will be large enough. I like to sew them all the way down one side, just in case, and maybe have the opening underneath (just leave the regular seam unsewn, don't cut a hole) fasten together in the middle. On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Kimiko Small sstormwa...@yahoo.comwrote: I've only had to make them for 16th century clothing, but I found that it is usually starts lower than we think they need to be. The first time I put a simple codpiece on, it ended up way too high and ended up almost at the waist level at the upper end. So I've found that to be most accurate in placement, the hose need to actually be on the man they are to be worn by, along with the doublet if needed for visual placement cues. This can be... uncomfortable in some situations. But by then I had to pin fit a male client into his full hose mockup, so the ice was already broken. It helped that I had another friend of mine in the room as well both times, and we all chatted like nothing was going on. Kimiko --- On Mon, 4/20/09, Zuzana Kraemerova zkraemer...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Zuzana Kraemerova zkraemer...@yahoo.com Subject: [h-cost] 15th century hose - codpiece To: h-costume h-costume@mail.indra.com Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 11:30 AM Hi, I am constantly solving one problem and as a woman I cannot really guess and I am afraid to ask the customers...:-) Well, I am making 15th century hose and am wondering as where to exactly place the codpiece. The style of the hose is like here (the second man from the left): http://www.companie-of-st-george.ch/cms/sitefiles/short_costume_guide_plate_one_larger.jpeg Sarah Thursfield gives me an idea of shape, but I don't really know where the codpiece should begin - there is a gusset between the legs which end up with the codpiece. But I can't figure out where exactly that place is - id it in the same point that the regular opening on men's hose is? Or lower? Can I calculate it somehow (distance from the crotch depth line or something)? Thanks for help, Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume -- Carolyn Kayta Barrows -- Blank paper is God's way of saying it ain't so easy being God. -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
