RE: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before?
Okay, I know this is an unnecessary reply but, COL Thanks! Sg Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:28:02 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before? CC: In the late 1860s there were various methods of looping up a skirt with ring/drawstring arrangements or buttons to make it look different over an underskirt. My book _Reconstruction Era Fashions_ shows some of them. In the 1880s it was common to polonaise tunics/long bodices, and overskirts, with ties (or sometimes with buttons); but an important reason was that the garment could be made much flatter to clean and iron, than if it were permanently bunched up.___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before?
Jean, these aren't tied up per se with the intention of letting them down to train are they? Sg Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:34:47 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before? CC: This is similar to one method of making the Polonaise, in the 18th century: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/orie/ho_1976.146a,b_1970.87.htm Jean___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before?
Oh yeah - I think we got that. :) I didn't even realize it was a dress, I was only interested in the mechanics of the skirt. I actually like the top part of it [sin shiny poly fabric of the skirt]. I don't have the figure for the top though...and I can't imagine wearing any of it in its current state for anything but a fantasy thing I'd add that, so far, all of the comments relate to the interestingly poofy style of the skirt. 1860s bodices were very different than the top of this dress, and the combination of the two (the plain, scoop-necked bodice with no front seams and the flounced skirt) strikes me as modern.___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before?
I didn't even realize it was a dress, I was only interested in the mechanics of the skirt. The modern skirt tied together in places look has been around for two or three years. I've not only seen many examples, I've bought a couple of dozen at least. There are many variants. The ties are usually twill tapes dyed to match the fabric, but sometimes they are ribbons or strips made of the fabric. Occasionally buttons and loops are used instead of ties. Usually the skirt is long or calf-length, but sometimes it is knee length or so. Usually it is pretty full to very full. Often it is a separate skirt, but sometimes it is the skirt of a dress, a tunic top, or a 3/4-length or longer coat or sweater/knit coat. Often the ties are meant to raise the skirt in a place or places, at will. Sometimes the skirt is made longer in back, on both sides, on one side, or occasionally even in front. (However, it is not made long enough to drag on the ground when not tied up, this not being very convenient for modern wear.) When the ties are tied, the skirt is leveled, more or less. But sometimes the skirt is made the same length all around, and the ties raise it unevenly. Sometimes the ties create a kind of bustle on the upper part of the skirt. Sometimes the ties are meant to pull parts together across the skirt, narrowing it at will. One simple variant where the sides of an A-line skirt are pulled across the front and tied with the side points together, is called an apron skirt. I'm also seeing a lot of roman shade tie skirts (you pull the ties up to ruche the skirt as much as desired at the bottom, and tie them together), or permanently ruched or elasticized skirts that have the same effect, except you can't un-ruche them. I believe the inspiration for these styles is the late 1860s through the 1880s, but they are not attempts at historic recreation per se. Designers/manufacturers that have been producing these styles include Ronen Chen (Israeli), Hanna/La Journee, Spirithouse, Surrealist, and numerous others, especially some European manufacturers. Sometimes this is marketed as part of a layered style called lagenlook, which I believe to be German for layered look, but the term has caught on in English to some extent. I see it a lot on eBay, especially with international sellers--the lagenlook seems to be popular in both Germany and England. XCVI Wearables has made a lot of the elasticized ruched-up skirts. The full European lagenlook involves things like wearing a long skirt and also either a shorter skirt or a tunic top, one or all of them tying up in some way, and possibly a big drapey sweater on top of it all. Websites that often carry skirts in the tied styles include www.artfulwears.com and www.2chicboutique.com. Ebay sellers that carry it include guaranteed_authentic_ fashion (they specialize in drapey knit versions of the lagenlook), and many others. Fran Lavolta Press Books of Historic Patterns http://www.lavoltapress.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before?
As far as I know, it's not intended as a way of keeping your skirt out of the mud. But on the other hand, it's not a permanent, sewn arrangement, it's definitely something done with cords that you can either loop up or let down. It would be nice if there was any evidence of someone wearing the same dress different ways on different occasions - like you sometimes get diaries or accounts showing that sleeves could be interchangeable in Tudor times. I don't know that much detail of the period. Jean Saragrace Knauf wrote: Jean, these aren't tied up per se with the intention of letting them down to train are they? Sg Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:34:47 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before? CC: This is similar to one method of making the Polonaise, in the 18th century: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/orie/ho_1976.146a,b_1970.87.htm Jean___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before?
In the late 1860s there were various methods of looping up a skirt with ring/drawstring arrangements or buttons to make it look different over an underskirt. My book _Reconstruction Era Fashions_ shows some of them. In the 1880s it was common to polonaise tunics/long bodices, and overskirts, with ties (or sometimes with buttons); but an important reason was that the garment could be made much flatter to clean and iron, than if it were permanently bunched up. Fran Lavolta Press http://www.lavoltapress.com Jean Waddie wrote: As far as I know, it's not intended as a way of keeping your skirt out of the mud. But on the other hand, it's not a permanent, sewn arrangement, it's definitely something done with cords that you can either loop up or let down. It would be nice if there was any evidence of someone wearing the same dress different ways on different occasions - like you sometimes get diaries or accounts showing that sleeves could be interchangeable in Tudor times. I don't know that much detail of the period. Jean Saragrace Knauf wrote: Jean, these aren't tied up per se with the intention of letting them down to train are they? Sg Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:34:47 + From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before? CC: This is similar to one method of making the Polonaise, in the 18th century: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/orie/ho_1976.146a,b_1970.87.htm Jean___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before?
I was browsing through my Pyramid Collection Catalog and came across this skirt and thought it was a great idea. I think I had seen a variation on this a few months ago in Brugges, Belgium (a woman riding a bicycle), but this is the first time I've seen it in a catalogue. http://www.pyramidcollection.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=P8276+S Has anyone ever come across this look in any period in history? The flouncy mode reminds me of some southern belle look, but those are probably permanently sewn in. Great idea for keeping your skirts out of the dirt! I know I plan on using it for my less than historically accurate stuff with the SCA. Sg As one of my favorite historians said: If you thought of it, they probably did too.___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before?
In a message dated 3/19/2008 10:36:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.pyramidcollection.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=P8276+S Has anyone ever come across this look in any period in history? The flouncy mode reminds me of some southern belle look, but those are probably permanently sewn in. You will come across a similar idea in the 1860's and the idea remains the same--a method of raising the skirts high enough to stay out of mud, puddles, etc. Occassionally you see it in fashion plates as a trendy thing to do over an elaborate underskirt, but more often than not it was an issue of practicality. To do it, one had the option of purchasing one of the patent Dress Elevators in the magazines, sewing tapes inside your skirt, or simply using pins. ~Joseph **Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom000301) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before?
From the back it reminds me of a Robe a la Polinaise C. 1700s. Or a Roman shade. :-) Monica -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 2:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before? In a message dated 3/19/2008 10:36:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.pyramidcollection.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=P8276+S Has anyone ever come across this look in any period in history? The flouncy mode reminds me of some southern belle look, but those are probably permanently sewn in. You will come across a similar idea in the 1860's and the idea remains the same--a method of raising the skirts high enough to stay out of mud, puddles, etc. Occassionally you see it in fashion plates as a trendy thing to do over an elaborate underskirt, but more often than not it was an issue of practicality. To do it, one had the option of purchasing one of the patent Dress Elevators in the magazines, sewing tapes inside your skirt, or simply using pins. ~Joseph **Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom0 00301) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before?
On Wednesday 19 March 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/19/2008 10:36:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.pyramidcollection.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=P8276+S Has anyone ever come across this look in any period in history? The flouncy mode reminds me of some southern belle look, but those are probably permanently sewn in. You will come across a similar idea in the 1860's and the idea remains the same--a method of raising the skirts high enough to stay out of mud, puddles, etc. Occassionally you see it in fashion plates as a trendy thing to do over an elaborate underskirt, but more often than not it was an issue of practicality. To do it, one had the option of purchasing one of the patent Dress Elevators in the magazines, sewing tapes inside your skirt, or simply using pins. I'd add that, so far, all of the comments relate to the interestingly poofy style of the skirt. 1860s bodices were very different than the top of this dress, and the combination of the two (the plain, scoop-necked bodice with no front seams and the flounced skirt) strikes me as modern. -- Cathy Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] You affect the world by what you browse.-- Tim Berners-Lee ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before?
From the back? Are you possible mistaking the pulled up skirt version as the back of the outfit? -Original Message- From the back it reminds me of a Robe a la Polinaise C. 1700s. Or a Roman shade. :-) Monica -Original Message- In a message dated 3/19/2008 10:36:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: http://www.pyramidcollection.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=P8276+S Has anyone ever come across this look in any period in history? The flouncy mode reminds me of some southern belle look, but those are probably permanently sewn in. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Anyone seen this in history before?
This is similar to one method of making the Polonaise, in the 18th century: http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/orie/ho_1976.146a,b_1970.87.htm Jean Saragrace Knauf wrote: I was browsing through my Pyramid Collection Catalog and came across this skirt and thought it was a great idea. I think I had seen a variation on this a few months ago in Brugges, Belgium (a woman riding a bicycle), but this is the first time I've seen it in a catalogue. http://www.pyramidcollection.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=P8276+S Has anyone ever come across this look in any period in history? The flouncy mode reminds me of some southern belle look, but those are probably permanently sewn in. Great idea for keeping your skirts out of the dirt! I know I plan on using it for my less than historically accurate stuff with the SCA. Sg As one of my favorite historians said: If you thought of it, they probably did too.___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
