Re: [h-cost] Frobisher Garb
I have studied this painting a bit in the past, though I have never seen the original which would help in trying to determine materials. The breeches and jerkin are certainly made of the same material and I am not certain what that material is. It seems to be plush, but from copies in books it is hard to determine. I think it could be leather (probably a deerskin), wool or velvet. I made mine in wool. The sleeves are certainly NOT part of the jerkin, but part of the doublet. This is a very common period look which is for some reason rarely done today. I agree that the sleeves are made long and fitted tight at the wrists. I'm your huckleberry Ron Carnegie r.carne...@verizon.net -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Catherine Olanich Raymond Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 10:19 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Frobisher Garb On Wednesday 14 April 2010 4:55:21 pm Kimiko Small wrote: Do you mean this one? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Martin_Frobisher_by_Ketel.jpg I wish it was a larger file to see the details better. It looks like the jerkin and possibly his breeches are in leather. But his sleeves have a fabric look to them, and may be attached to a doublet of the same fabric. The sleeves look to be extra long and pushed into doing those gathers - I can't tell with an image this size. The sleeves also look to be in 2 pieces. And just because you don't see an opening doesn't mean there isn't some sort of opening that is unseen in the image to get the hands through. I'm not sure what more help I can be, as sleeves are not a strong point for me. Kimiko Small Frankly, they look like fabric to me, particularly the breeches, which look like velvet, but I could of course be wrong. -- Cathy Raymond ca...@thyrsus.com No one can make as disastrous a bad choice as a smart person, because they sell it to themselves really well.--Tobias Buckell ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Frobisher Garb
It looks like the jerkin and possibly his breeches are in leather. But his sleeves have a fabric look to them, and may be attached to a doublet of the same fabric. The sleeves look to be extra long and pushed into doing those gathers - I can't tell with an image this size. The sleeves also look to be in 2 pieces. And just because you don't see an opening doesn't mean there isn't some sort of opening that is unseen in the image to get the hands through. I'm not sure what more help I can be, as sleeves are not a strong point for me. Kimiko Small *** Yes the sleeves are extra long and the tight wrist keep them from falling over the hand. I'll bet they are 2 pieces with a closure on the outseam that closes with something like hooks and eyes. The upper parts are indeed falling concentrating the ruching at the narrow bottom. If the two piece sleeve is also curved like a narrow sleeve would be cut, the bottom of the sleeve will be slightly on the bias. This will help with the rushing as well as the tightness. (also, it's not a very good painting, His right hand with the pistol is smaller than the left and I think the foreshortening of that right arm is not quite right and looks too narrow. Not so his left.) ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Frobisher Garb
I am, once again, making a Frobisher suit for Ansel to wear at Bristol. This time I want to approximate the outfit Sir Martin is wearing in the only full length portrait of him that I have seen. I need some input though on the jerkin he is wearing. I think that it looks to be made of leather, but I have no concept of how to make the sleeves gather like that. Or how you would get hands through such a tight sleeve with no visible opening. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. I have tried to included a link to the portrait, but can't seem to get it to work. Rebecca Burch Center Valley Farm Duncan Falls, Ohio, USA The only twelve steps I'm interested in are the ones between the flat folds and the brocades. --Anonymous Costumer-- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Frobisher Garb
The sleeves certainly have wrist openings, but both hands are painted wrist down, so you can't see them. They're there, I an assure you, on the inside of the wrist. At the top, they're lightly gathered into the armhole of the doublet underneath the leather jerkin. There's a pretty good image here http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Frobisher,Martin(Sir)01.jpg MaggiRos Maggie Secara ~A Compendium of Common Knowledge 1558-1603 Available at your favorite online bookseller See our gallery at http://www.zazzle.com/popinjaypress On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 12:14 PM, REBECCA BURCH ctrvlyf...@sbcglobal.netwrote: I am, once again, making a Frobisher suit for Ansel to wear at Bristol. This time I want to approximate the outfit Sir Martin is wearing in the only full length portrait of him that I have seen. I need some input though on the jerkin he is wearing. I think that it looks to be made of leather, but I have no concept of how to make the sleeves gather like that. Or how you would get hands through such a tight sleeve with no visible opening. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. I have tried to included a link to the portrait, but can't seem to get it to work. Rebecca Burch Center Valley Farm Duncan Falls, Ohio, USA The only twelve steps I'm interested in are the ones between the flat folds and the brocades. --Anonymous Costumer-- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Frobisher Garb
Do you have any ideas on the ruching effect in the cuff area? Is it perhaps just a long fore arm pushed up? Rebecca Burch Center Valley Farm Duncan Falls, Ohio, USA The only twelve steps I'm interested in are the ones between the flat folds and the brocades. --Anonymous Costumer-- --- On Wed, 4/14/10, Maggie maggi...@gmail.com wrote: From: Maggie maggi...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Frobisher Garb To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Date: Wednesday, April 14, 2010, 3:43 PM The sleeves certainly have wrist openings, but both hands are painted wrist down, so you can't see them. They're there, I an assure you, on the inside of the wrist. At the top, they're lightly gathered into the armhole of the doublet underneath the leather jerkin. There's a pretty good image here http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/images/Frobisher,Martin(Sir)01.jpg MaggiRos Maggie Secara ~A Compendium of Common Knowledge 1558-1603 Available at your favorite online bookseller See our gallery at http://www.zazzle.com/popinjaypress On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 12:14 PM, REBECCA BURCH ctrvlyf...@sbcglobal.netwrote: I am, once again, making a Frobisher suit for Ansel to wear at Bristol. This time I want to approximate the outfit Sir Martin is wearing in the only full length portrait of him that I have seen. I need some input though on the jerkin he is wearing. I think that it looks to be made of leather, but I have no concept of how to make the sleeves gather like that. Or how you would get hands through such a tight sleeve with no visible opening. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. I have tried to included a link to the portrait, but can't seem to get it to work. Rebecca Burch Center Valley Farm Duncan Falls, Ohio, USA The only twelve steps I'm interested in are the ones between the flat folds and the brocades. --Anonymous Costumer-- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Frobisher Garb
Do you mean this one? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Martin_Frobisher_by_Ketel.jpg I wish it was a larger file to see the details better. It looks like the jerkin and possibly his breeches are in leather. But his sleeves have a fabric look to them, and may be attached to a doublet of the same fabric. The sleeves look to be extra long and pushed into doing those gathers - I can't tell with an image this size. The sleeves also look to be in 2 pieces. And just because you don't see an opening doesn't mean there isn't some sort of opening that is unseen in the image to get the hands through. I'm not sure what more help I can be, as sleeves are not a strong point for me. Kimiko Small http://www.kimiko1.com Be the change you want to see in the world. ~ Ghandi The Tudor Lady's Wardrobe pattern http://www.margospatterns.com/ - Original Message From: REBECCA BURCH ctrvlyf...@sbcglobal.net I am, once again, making a Frobisher suit for Ansel to wear at Bristol. This time I want to approximate the outfit Sir Martin is wearing in the only full length portrait of him that I have seen. I need some input though on the jerkin he is wearing. I think that it looks to be made of leather, but I have no concept of how to make the sleeves gather like that. Or how you would get hands through such a tight sleeve with no visible opening. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Frobisher Garb
On Wednesday 14 April 2010 4:55:21 pm Kimiko Small wrote: Do you mean this one? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Martin_Frobisher_by_Ketel.jpg I wish it was a larger file to see the details better. It looks like the jerkin and possibly his breeches are in leather. But his sleeves have a fabric look to them, and may be attached to a doublet of the same fabric. The sleeves look to be extra long and pushed into doing those gathers - I can't tell with an image this size. The sleeves also look to be in 2 pieces. And just because you don't see an opening doesn't mean there isn't some sort of opening that is unseen in the image to get the hands through. I'm not sure what more help I can be, as sleeves are not a strong point for me. Kimiko Small Frankly, they look like fabric to me, particularly the breeches, which look like velvet, but I could of course be wrong. -- Cathy Raymond ca...@thyrsus.com No one can make as disastrous a bad choice as a smart person, because they sell it to themselves really well.--Tobias Buckell ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
