Re: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dress?
-Original Message- From: Marjorie Wilser the3t...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Thu, Feb 28, 2013 2:11 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dress? To me, Seton's headgear appears to be a somewhat wilted version of the mob cap, not stiffened like a bonnet, or really much shaped like one. Not a poke bonnet because it doesn't hide her face. == Marjorie On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:45 PM, Monica Spence wrote: I went to school at Seton Hill College (now Seton Hill University). It is run by Mother's Seton's Sisters of Charity, so I've seen the bonnet up close. It reminds me of the poke bonnet that became popular in the Romantic and Crinoline periods. A bit early, I know, but just a thought that it may be an early version of the style. Monica Spence ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dress?
Monica, I've seen later versions of the habit, and you are right that the headgear did look like a bonnet, which you pointed out wasn't around until after Mother Seton's death in 1821. And the dress itself is more in the style of the 1840s or 50s. So I think that habit evolved from whatever Mother Seton chose, which one assumes would have been more in the style of 1810-20. (Here choice COULD, of course, been a style earlier than that, but it couldn't have been later!) As Marjorie points out, this headgear looks like a cap, but I just haven't seen references to black caps, even for mourning. That is why I'm asking if it was an Italian thing. Ann Wass -Original Message- From: Marjorie Wilser the3t...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Thu, Feb 28, 2013 2:11 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dress? To me, Seton's headgear appears to be a somewhat wilted version of the mob cap, not stiffened like a bonnet, or really much shaped like one. Not a poke bonnet because it doesn't hide her face. == Marjorie On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:45 PM, Monica Spence wrote: I went to school at Seton Hill College (now Seton Hill University). It is run by Mother's Seton's Sisters of Charity, so I've seen the bonnet up close. It reminds me of the poke bonnet that became popular in the Romantic and Crinoline periods. A bit early, I know, but just a thought that it may be an early version of the style. Monica Spence ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dress?
Sorry for the phantom send. See my next message, please. Ann Wass -Original Message- From: annbwass annbw...@aol.com To: h-costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Thu, Feb 28, 2013 5:54 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dress? -Original Message- From: Marjorie Wilser the3t...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Thu, Feb 28, 2013 2:11 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dress? To me, Seton's headgear appears to be a somewhat wilted version of the mob cap, not stiffened like a bonnet, or really much shaped like one. Not a poke bonnet because it doesn't hide her face. == Marjorie On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:45 PM, Monica Spence wrote: I went to school at Seton Hill College (now Seton Hill University). It is run by Mother's Seton's Sisters of Charity, so I've seen the bonnet up close. It reminds me of the poke bonnet that became popular in the Romantic and Crinoline periods. A bit early, I know, but just a thought that it may be an early version of the style. Monica Spence ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dress?
Here is a photo of Saint Frances Cabrini (1850-1917). Notice that she is wearing a bonnet that ties under her chin. Not saying it's an Italian style, but as soon as I saw Elizabeth Seton's headgear, I thought of Mother Cabrini. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Xavier_Cabrini Kathy Kathleen Norvell app...@aol.com -Original Message- From: annbwass annbw...@aol.com To: h-costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 6:59 pm Subject: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dress? I am researching Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton. Supposedly, the habit of the order he founded originated in her widow's dress. She was widowed in 1804 while she as in Italy. Here is a link to a portrait that was supposed to have been ainted then, although I have my doubts. ttp://catholicgene.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/st-elizabeth-ann-seton-1804-portrait.jpg?w=417h=529 f course I can accept her wearing black, but that headgear doesn't look like nything I've seen from images at that time. So my question is, could it have een something distinctly Italian? Or does anyone know of images of anything imilar from elsewhere? hanks. nn Wass __ -costume mailing list -cost...@mail.indra.com ttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dress?
Notice that she is wearing a bonnet that ties under her chin Now Mother Cabrini's bonnet is very typical of European/American styles of the late 19th century, whereas Elizabeth Ann Seton's does not seem typical of styles of her era. That is why I asked the question about its possibly being an Italian style. Ann Wass -Original Message- From: Kathleen Norvell app...@aol.com To: h-costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 7:07 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dr Here is a photo of Saint Frances Cabrini (1850-1917). Notice that she is wearing a bonnet that ties under her chin. Not saying it's an Italian style, but as soon as I saw Elizabeth Seton's headgear, I thought of Mother Cabrini. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Xavier_Cabrini Kathy Kathleen Norvell app...@aol.com -Original Message- From: annbwass annbw...@aol.com To: h-costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 6:59 pm Subject: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dress? I am researching Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton. Supposedly, the habit of the order he founded originated in her widow's dress. She was widowed in 1804 while she as in Italy. Here is a link to a portrait that was supposed to have been ainted then, although I have my doubts. ttp://catholicgene.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/st-elizabeth-ann-seton-1804-portrait.jpg?w=417h=529 f course I can accept her wearing black, but that headgear doesn't look like nything I've seen from images at that time. So my question is, could it have een something distinctly Italian? Or does anyone know of images of anything imilar from elsewhere? hanks. nn Wass __ -costume mailing list -cost...@mail.indra.com ttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dress?
I went to school at Seton Hill College (now Seton Hill University). It is run by Mother's Seton's Sisters of Charity, so I've seen the bonnet up close. It reminds me of the poke bonnet that became popular in the Romantic and Crinoline periods. A bit early, I know, but just a thought that it may be an early version of the style. Monica Spence -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of annbw...@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 7:15 PM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dress? Notice that she is wearing a bonnet that ties under her chin Now Mother Cabrini's bonnet is very typical of European/American styles of the late 19th century, whereas Elizabeth Ann Seton's does not seem typical of styles of her era. That is why I asked the question about its possibly being an Italian style. Ann Wass -Original Message- From: Kathleen Norvell app...@aol.com To: h-costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 7:07 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dr Here is a photo of Saint Frances Cabrini (1850-1917). Notice that she is wearing a bonnet that ties under her chin. Not saying it's an Italian style, but as soon as I saw Elizabeth Seton's headgear, I thought of Mother Cabrini. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Xavier_Cabrini Kathy Kathleen Norvell app...@aol.com -Original Message- From: annbwass annbw...@aol.com To: h-costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, Feb 27, 2013 6:59 pm Subject: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dress? I am researching Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton. Supposedly, the habit of the order he founded originated in her widow's dress. She was widowed in 1804 while she as in Italy. Here is a link to a portrait that was supposed to have been ainted then, although I have my doubts. ttp://catholicgene.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/st-elizabeth-ann-seton-1804-p ortrait.jpg?w=417h=529 f course I can accept her wearing black, but that headgear doesn't look like nything I've seen from images at that time. So my question is, could it have een something distinctly Italian? Or does anyone know of images of anything imilar from elsewhere? hanks. nn Wass __ -costume mailing list -cost...@mail.indra.com ttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Italian Widow's Dress?
To me, Seton's headgear appears to be a somewhat wilted version of the mob cap, not stiffened like a bonnet, or really much shaped like one. Not a poke bonnet because it doesn't hide her face. == Marjorie On Feb 27, 2013, at 4:45 PM, Monica Spence wrote: I went to school at Seton Hill College (now Seton Hill University). It is run by Mother's Seton's Sisters of Charity, so I've seen the bonnet up close. It reminds me of the poke bonnet that became popular in the Romantic and Crinoline periods. A bit early, I know, but just a thought that it may be an early version of the style. Monica Spence ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
