Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?
What about winterberry (deciduous holly: Ilex verticillata) berries? Patty -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Marjorie Wilser Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 7:22 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England? Hi List, I am writing about a winter wedding in 1830 New England. What might a bride carry in lieu of a bouquet? My fuzzy California brain remembers/ guesses something like bittersweet, which I assume is a woody herb? It might be imported orange blossoms, but I think those are later. In need of floral costuming, == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?
We have quite forgotten the Handkercheif as an important accessory for the bride of this time period...and most appropriate for a bride in a home setting. they were often heirlooms and might feature exquisite lace from the previous century. One might also see fans prominent in French or English illustrations. This was also a period when ribbons were a favor.? I am recalling an article seen this past spring of ribbon nosegays that were worked with laces for a competition (now where, where, where!).Perhaps it was Piecework...The June issue of the last three years has featured heirloom treasures of lace; many forms have been forgotten... of -Original Message- From: Elena House exst...@gmail.com Sent 11/25/2011 11:24:28 PM To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:22 PM, Elena House exst...@gmail.com wrote: ?I could swear I've run across several sets of how-to-make-artificial-flowers instructions in Victorian ephemera of the sort your characters might be likely to have run across, although I'm not enough of a masochist to try to hunt them down now... =} ...And I just noticed the 1830 bit, so ignore the Victorian part, please! Still, it seems like a skill that wouldn't be too outlandish to find locally--maybe the sister-in-law has a milliner friend. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?
.and don't forget the prayer book -- always fashionable with a handkerchief From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [h-costume-boun...@indra.com] on behalf of R Lloyd Mitchell [rmitch...@staff.washjeff.edu] Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 2:29 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England? We have quite forgotten the Handkercheif as an important accessory for the bride of this time period...and most appropriate for a bride in a home setting. they were often heirlooms and might feature exquisite lace from the previous century. One might also see fans prominent in French or English illustrations. This was also a period when ribbons were a favor.? I am recalling an article seen this past spring of ribbon nosegays that were worked with laces for a competition (now where, where, where!).Perhaps it was Piecework...The June issue of the last three years has featured heirloom treasures of lace; many forms have been forgotten... of -Original Message- From: Elena House exst...@gmail.com Sent 11/25/2011 11:24:28 PM To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:22 PM, Elena House exst...@gmail.com wrote: ?I could swear I've run across several sets of how-to-make-artificial-flowers instructions in Victorian ephemera of the sort your characters might be likely to have run across, although I'm not enough of a masochist to try to hunt them down now... =} ...And I just noticed the 1830 bit, so ignore the Victorian part, please! Still, it seems like a skill that wouldn't be too outlandish to find locally--maybe the sister-in-law has a milliner friend. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?
Thanks, Deb! My abode in the 19th century has been 1850+, so wasn't entirely sure about the flowers. I thought them a safe bet though. :) == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ On Nov 26, 2011, at 5:23 PM, Deb Salisbury, the Mantua-Maker wrote(in part): I'm late to the discussion, but artificial flowers were widely available in England at this time, so I think they'd be reasonably available in New England. … Artificial flowers are made, sometimes of very fine coloured paper, sometimes of the inside linings upon which the silk-worm spins its silk, but principally of cambric, which is a kind of linen made of flax, first manufactured at Cambray, in France; of which great quantities were imported into this country: but now, persons convicted of wearing, or selling, or making up for hire, any cambric or French lawns are liable to a penalty of 5l. Book of Trades, 1806 … Artificial flowers belong to a second order of dress, from whence too they are likely soon to be banished, not bearing the contrast of nature; flowers of stamped or cramped satin and lace are now a more approved ornament for hats or caps. La Belle Assemblée, May 1811 … Artificial flowers, which we have no longer occasion to import from France, since our own are hardly to be distinguished from the productions of nature, are universally adopted in full dress by juvenile belles; they are also used to ornament the toques and turbans of matronly ladies. Repository of Arts, July 1817 … Flowers, made of feathers, from a beautiful head-dress for young ladies; La Belle Assemblée, January 1818 … These flowers are of velvet, feathers, or transparent whalebone. La Belle Assemblée, December 1827 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?
Wax flowers were also popular at this time. I've seen pictures of some that look amazingly real. I believe they were in a bride's head wreath or bouquet. Sharon C. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of Marjorie Wilser Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 4:22 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England? Hi List, I am writing about a winter wedding in 1830 New England. What might a bride carry in lieu of a bouquet? My fuzzy California brain remembers/ guesses something like bittersweet, which I assume is a woody herb? It might be imported orange blossoms, but I think those are later. In need of floral costuming, == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?
I've heard they were; I was trying for something natural as the family in question might not bother/have wax flowers. Later in the century, especially, wax flower directions were published in Godey's and other women's magazines as a DIY. == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ On Nov 25, 2011, at 1:14 AM, Sharon Collier wrote: Wax flowers were also popular at this time. I've seen pictures of some that look amazingly real. I believe they were in a bride's head wreath or bouquet. Sharon C. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?
Instead of flowers, maybe winter greens? Pine, balsam, holly (with bright red berries), etc. Also, could flowers be fashioned out of white paper? -Dede O'Hair ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?
My referrences make note that winter weddings' were not the usual thing...partly because of travel restrictions dominted by the weather. Private ceremonies might have occurred in special circumstances, but were usually family, and private, with a larger celebration in more clement weather. Mid Spring weddings were planned before Planting and Mowing; likewise, late summer and fall weddings took place after harvest . May and 0ctober were often the favored dates. Consider the heating of a church or hall as a problem? in the cold weather...Marriage records tend to support Spring and Summer, or early Fall as the better choice. t For assessories, Prayer book, sprig of greenery (seasonally symbolic), small basket? or nosegay selected by the groom,, of live flowers,?was the expected thing.? If you can find a history of the various traditional elements of the bridal occasion, you might get some other ideas. You have ot mentioned whether your wedding is country or city...That too would make a difference in the style of the bride and ceremony. Do consider that 'white weddings,were not the expected until at least mid Century, and then a formal event (in Church) was the usual occasion of white...if one could afford it. A Wedding dress for the less class was usually the best dress of 'her' life and probably would not be white by choice since it would have to be used for many occasions.Hi List, I am writing about a winter wedding in 1830 New England. What might a bride carry in lieu of a bouquet? My fuzzy California brain remembers/ guesses something like bittersweet, which I assume is a woody herb? It might be imported orange blossoms, but I think those are later. In need of floral costuming, == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=: Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?
Great thread from little material, this is shaping up to be :) Little on _my_ part, I hasten to add. Thanks to you, and everyone, who has replied!! So here's the story: actual date (historical characters) Dec 29. Travel easier by cutter (if snowy), but I won't schedule much snow. People are not coming far :) Ceremony by Justice of the Peace, which was typical for New Englanders who upheld the old Puritan traditions. In bride's home, not the church, so no heating issues. No prayer book- not a liturgical church. Bible, perhaps, but with a JP ceremony? Probably not. Family and neighbors only. They're in the country. Bride prepares by making a new best dress, certainly not white. I have her debating colors with her mother: Mom is all for gray or brown, which bride rejects, wanting a deep rose. Mom rejects rose as Bride is marrying a preacher and must look dignified to suit the role, even though only 20. Green fades too much, pale blue shows spots, red too bright, and they agree the dress might have to last 5 or more years as her Sabbath apparel. Preachers aren't well paid. Bride finally chooses a deep medium blue silk: color enough for her, conservative (dignified) enough for Mom, and won't show spots as badly as lighter colors. Pinked trim rather than the more expensive and hard-to-care-for fringe. Most of it is written already, but since flowers grow in California most of the year, I was stumped to see if I could find her any, as a natural solution for lack of funding :) My conclusion is that Mom decorates with the bittersweet-- it's really pretty!, but decrees not in a bouquet: the so-called language of flowers has negative connotations with bittersweet. Perhaps I'll have the sister-in-law make some paper flowers, as has been suggested, and coat them with wax. == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ On Nov 25, 2011, at 12:26 PM, R Lloyd Mitchell wrote: My referrences make note that winter weddings' were not the usual thing...partly because of travel restrictions dominted by the weather. Private ceremonies might have occurred in special circumstances, but were usually family, and private, with a larger celebration in more clement weather. Mid Spring weddings were planned before Planting and Mowing; likewise, late summer and fall weddings took place after harvest . May and 0ctober were often the favored dates. Consider the heating of a church or hall as a problem? in the cold weather...Marriage records tend to support Spring and Summer, or early Fall as the better choice. t For assessories, Prayer book, sprig of greenery (seasonally symbolic), small basket? or nosegay selected by the groom,, of live flowers,?was the expected thing.? If you can find a history of the various traditional elements of the bridal occasion, you might get some other ideas. You have ot mentioned whether your wedding is country or city...That too would make a difference in the style of the bride and ceremony. Do consider that 'white weddings,were not the expected until at least mid Century, and then a formal event (in Church) was the usual occasion of white...if one could afford it. A Wedding dress for the less class was usually the best dress of 'her' life and probably would not be white by choice since it would have to be used for many occasions.Hi List, I am writing about a winter wedding in 1830 New England. What might a bride carry in lieu of a bouquet? My fuzzy California brain remembers/ guesses something like bittersweet, which I assume is a woody herb? It might be imported orange blossoms, but I think those are later. In need of floral costuming, == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=: Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?
As a Vermonter (for at least one more winter) whose back porch door has been completely taken over by bittersweet vines, I can tell you that, while very pretty at the right time of year, it won't likely be too pretty on Dec 29; even now, the berries on mine are already falling off and shriveling up, and the outer flower-like casing thingies around the berries themselves look all brownish and nasty instead of the nice pumpkin orange they are during the pretty part of fall. Even if the part of New England you had in mind is further south, say Connecticut, the bittersweet would almost certainly already be too far gone for bouquet making. Some artificial flower-making projects among the relatives sounds like a lovely idea to me--maybe made of scraps of shattered/otherwise unusable silk, perhaps with some sentimental value to them? I could swear I've run across several sets of how-to-make-artificial-flowers instructions in Victorian ephemera of the sort your characters might be likely to have run across, although I'm not enough of a masochist to try to hunt them down now... =} -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?
On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:22 PM, Elena House exst...@gmail.com wrote: I could swear I've run across several sets of how-to-make-artificial-flowers instructions in Victorian ephemera of the sort your characters might be likely to have run across, although I'm not enough of a masochist to try to hunt them down now... =} ...And I just noticed the 1830 bit, so ignore the Victorian part, please! Still, it seems like a skill that wouldn't be too outlandish to find locally--maybe the sister-in-law has a milliner friend. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?
Hi Elena, JUST what I needed to hear-- no matter how I'll need to rewrite the bittersweet bit :) Of course, it _is_ pre-Victorian, but not much of a stretch to have wax-dipped paper flowers. The skill was around before its popularization in later Victorian times. Many thanks for your insights! Until my web search for photos of bittersweet I had no idea how very pretty it is. Too bad it's out of season for the story! I hope to get to Vermont someday. Ancestors and all like that. At least they tend to stay put once planted! == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ On Nov 25, 2011, at 8:24 PM, Elena House wrote: On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 11:22 PM, Elena House exst...@gmail.com wrote: I could swear I've run across several sets of how-to-make-artificial-flowers instructions in Victorian ephemera of the sort your characters might be likely to have run across, although I'm not enough of a masochist to try to hunt them down now... =} ...And I just noticed the 1830 bit, so ignore the Victorian part, please! Still, it seems like a skill that wouldn't be too outlandish to find locally--maybe the sister-in-law has a milliner friend. -E House ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?
On 24/11/2011 7:21 PM, Marjorie Wilser wrote: Hi List, I am writing about a winter wedding in 1830 New England. What might a bride carry in lieu of a bouquet? My fuzzy California brain remembers/guesses something like bittersweet, which I assume is a woody herb? Bittersweet is a woody plant that produces dramatic orange-red seed pods that usually stay on the plant into the winter. I can remember my mother using it in dried flower arrangements. Susan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Winter flowers for New England?
Sounds really pretty! I'll go look it up to see. == Marjorie Wilser =:=:=:Three Toad Press:=:=:= Learn to laugh at yourself and you will never lack for amusement. --MW http://3toad.blogspot.com/ On Nov 24, 2011, at 5:50 PM, Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: On 24/11/2011 7:21 PM, Marjorie Wilser wrote: Hi List, I am writing about a winter wedding in 1830 New England. What might a bride carry in lieu of a bouquet? My fuzzy California brain remembers/guesses something like bittersweet, which I assume is a woody herb? Bittersweet is a woody plant that produces dramatic orange-red seed pods that usually stay on the plant into the winter. I can remember my mother using it in dried flower arrangements. Susan ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
