[Haskell-cafe] Re: What *not* to use Haskell for
So I should clarify I'm not a troll and do see the Haskell light. But one thing I can never answer when preaching to others is what does Haskell not do well? The most obvious cases where Haskell does not do well, for me: - When you feed it Java code. Incidentally, the same holds when you feed it C code. - When you try to write a malloc library. Stefan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: What *not* to use Haskell for
what does Haskell not do well? - When you feed it Java code. Incidentally, the same holds when you feed it C code. I've heard that Haskell's new (developed in this year's GSoC) Language.C libraries were able to parse millions of lines of C code from the Linux kernel, including many gcc extensions, without a single error. That doesn't sound too shabby to me. Regards, Malcolm ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: What *not* to use Haskell for
I think Haskell is not nice to write general purpouse libraries that could be easily and completly wrapped by other languages. You can wrap gtk, sqlite3, gsl, opengl etc., but you can't write python bindings for Data.Graph. But, then, if you claim there's nothing else Haskell can't do, what do you need those bindings for ? :) Best, Maurício Hi everyone So I should clarify I'm not a troll and do see the Haskell light. But one thing I can never answer when preaching to others is what does Haskell not do well? Usually I'll avoid then question and explain that it is a 'complete' language and we do have more than enough libraries to make it useful and productive. But I'd be keen to know if people have any anecdotes, ideally ones which can subsequently be twisted into an argument for Haskell ;) Cheers, Dave ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: What *not* to use Haskell for
Actually, one language you mention there *is* worse than the others for writing wrappable library code: C++. Admittedly, they've got a Python interface now via boost, but the main problem with writing wrappable C++ code is the template system and the inheritence systems getting in the way. Symbol names aren't predictable and not standardized, so it becomes impossible to write a portable system for finding and binding to functions in a library. I've not yet found a good way to do it in FFI code, and I would love to, as one library in particular I hold near and dear -- OpenSceneGraph -- is entirely written in C++. -- Jeff On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 6:35 AM, Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Mauricio, Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 2:26:21 PM, you wrote: imho, Haskell isn't worse here than any other compiled language - C++, ML, Eiffel and beter tnan Java or C#.every language has its own object model and GC. the only ay is to provide C-typed interfaces between languages (or use COM, IDL and other API-describing languages) I think Haskell is not nice to write general purpouse libraries that could be easily and completly wrapped by other languages. You can wrap gtk, sqlite3, gsl, opengl etc., but you can't write python bindings for Data.Graph. But, then, if you claim there's nothing else Haskell can't do, what do you need those bindings for ? :) Best, Mauricio Hi everyone So I should clarify I'm not a troll and do see the Haskell light. But one thing I can never answer when preaching to others is what does Haskell not do well? Usually I'll avoid then question and explain that it is a 'complete' language and we do have more than enough libraries to make it useful and productive. But I'd be keen to know if people have any anecdotes, ideally ones which can subsequently be twisted into an argument for Haskell ;) Cheers, Dave ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- I try to take things like a crow; war and chaos don't always ruin a picnic, they just mean you have to be careful what you swallow. -- Jessica Edwards ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: What *not* to use Haskell for
Hello Mauricio, Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 2:26:21 PM, you wrote: imho, Haskell isn't worse here than any other compiled language - C++, ML, Eiffel and beter tnan Java or C#.every language has its own object model and GC. the only ay is to provide C-typed interfaces between languages (or use COM, IDL and other API-describing languages) I think Haskell is not nice to write general purpouse libraries that could be easily and completly wrapped by other languages. You can wrap gtk, sqlite3, gsl, opengl etc., but you can't write python bindings for Data.Graph. But, then, if you claim there's nothing else Haskell can't do, what do you need those bindings for ? :) Best, Mauricio Hi everyone So I should clarify I'm not a troll and do see the Haskell light. But one thing I can never answer when preaching to others is what does Haskell not do well? Usually I'll avoid then question and explain that it is a 'complete' language and we do have more than enough libraries to make it useful and productive. But I'd be keen to know if people have any anecdotes, ideally ones which can subsequently be twisted into an argument for Haskell ;) Cheers, Dave ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re[2]: [Haskell-cafe] Re: What *not* to use Haskell for
Hello Jefferson, Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 4:12:40 PM, you wrote: may be i doesn't understand something but why c#, java, delphi, visual basic, perl, python, ruby or even ml better than c++? symbol names in C++ are easily predictable with wrapper using extern C. i think that you just not tried to write warppers to code in other languages - the same problems are everywhere Actually, one language you mention there *is* worse than the others for writing wrappable library code: C++. Admittedly, they've got a Python interface now via boost, but the main problem with writing wrappable C++ code is the template system and the inheritence systems getting in the way. Symbol names aren't predictable and not standardized, so it becomes impossible to write a portable system for finding and binding to functions in a library. I've not yet found a good way to do it in FFI code, and I would love to, as one library in particular I hold near and dear -- OpenSceneGraph -- is entirely written in C++. -- Jeff On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 6:35 AM, Bulat Ziganshin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Mauricio, Tuesday, November 11, 2008, 2:26:21 PM, you wrote: imho, Haskell isn't worse here than any other compiled language - C++, ML, Eiffel and beter tnan Java or C#.every language has its own object model and GC. the only ay is to provide C-typed interfaces between languages (or use COM, IDL and other API-describing languages) I think Haskell is not nice to write general purpouse libraries that could be easily and completly wrapped by other languages. You can wrap gtk, sqlite3, gsl, opengl etc., but you can't write python bindings for Data.Graph. But, then, if you claim there's nothing else Haskell can't do, what do you need those bindings for ? :) Best, Mauricio Hi everyone So I should clarify I'm not a troll and do see the Haskell light. But one thing I can never answer when preaching to others is what does Haskell not do well? Usually I'll avoid then question and explain that it is a 'complete' language and we do have more than enough libraries to make it useful and productive. But I'd be keen to know if people have any anecdotes, ideally ones which can subsequently be twisted into an argument for Haskell ;) Cheers, Dave ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: What *not* to use Haskell for
On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Jefferson Heard wrote: Actually, one language you mention there *is* worse than the others for writing wrappable library code: C++. Admittedly, they've got a Python interface now via boost, but the main problem with writing wrappable C++ code is the template system and the inheritence systems getting in the way. Symbol names aren't predictable and not standardized, so it becomes impossible to write a portable system for finding and binding to functions in a library. I've not yet found a good way to do it in FFI code, and I would love to, as one library in particular I hold near and dear -- OpenSceneGraph -- is entirely written in C++. SWIG helps wrapping C++ libraries by providing C wrappers to C++ functions. However, as far as I know, templates cannot be wrapped as they are, but only instances of templates. Thus there is no wrapper to STL. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Re: What *not* to use Haskell for
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 14:46, Henning Thielemann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SWIG helps wrapping C++ libraries by providing C wrappers to C++ functions. However, as far as I know, templates cannot be wrapped as they are, but only instances of templates. Thus there is no wrapper to STL. Maybe my understanding is a bit off, but isn't this to be expected? There's no way to compile a generic template to machine code, as template instantiation happens at source level in C++. cheers, Arnar ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
