Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback?
Custom tabs and the tags system are basically the same topic. And you were asking why servers weren't being delisted for bypassing the custom server tab, it is kind of relevant. But I'm sure the whole custom tabs and tags thing will all be resolved peacefully, in the upcoming months. SakeFox wrote: actually the subject of the email was not about the custom tabs, but it seemed to have gone that way, but hopefully it will get back on track to where it was Ryan Mannion wrote: Thank you for taking the time to enunciate what I'm sure many other server admins - myself, included - think about this subject. Ryan On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 7:20 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not this bullshit again. The custom tab has to be scratched, all servers should be displayed by default. Players should then be allowed to filter tags they like or do not like. If a player learns to use tags, great. If they don't, they see all options. This is what's important, if you by default HIDE 'custom' servers, the majority of the players who don't care will never see the so called custom servers. The whole tag system is flawed, let's say I run a 24 server without fast respawn. No tags are added by valve without any kind of mods manipulating the tags. But I add a grapple hook for all players. What server operator in their right mind would voluntarily add a tag that results in their server effectively being delisted? NOBODY. And then what is valve going to do about that? Are they going to come tell server ops hey you HAVE to list tags. Is valve going to hire a bunch of people to look for servers to make sure they aren't modded? Doubtful. In its current implementation server operators have an incentive to avoid tags, if all servers are shown by default with their respective tags, server operators would have an incentive to SHOW their tags. It's basically saying hey! Look what we got!, but if players don't see this by default, it will be worthless. How hard is it to understand this? Valve probably realized their mistake and might be correcting it. At least I hope so. The custom tab will be an eternal cat and mouse game between server operators and valve. Valve can very easily solve the problem and make everyone happy just by having the servers all visible by default. Players who want custom, can find it. Players who want vanilla, can find it. Players who don't care or don't know what they want, or don't know how to use the filters, have all options shown to them so they can make their mind on the fly. If you go to a restaurant and the waiter gives you a menu, and without you knowing, there is two different menus, but they give you the standard menu, chances are, very few people will ever ask hey what's on the other menu Also, increased_maxplayers is probably one of the stupidest tags ever. It's like a bag of peanuts with the warning: Warning: contains peanuts. Like players can't tell it's a 32 player server without reading the tags. - voogru. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SakeFox Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:57 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback? Well just because you pay for your servers doesn't give you rights to do whatever with there programs. Valve has been good about allowing people to modify there games, but i can see there point in what they are doing. They want people that are getting into the game to be able to play it as it was created and not with modified settings. There not limiting anyone from running there servers how they want. They are just looking at how new people experience the game. Now the game was designed for 24players in a server, so if you have a 32 person complaining about balancing issues in a game, that information is kinda scewed because the game is not played as intended. I really didn't want to create the bullshit from a few weeks ago either, however i think it was a few months ago, but since no one else has been calling Valve out on there short comings and completely ignoring issues with there games I thought I might as well start somewhere. This really wasn't intended to start the flame back up, but thought it to bring this bit up of there idle threats first and get it out of the way since its the most touchy of things. tgnwells wrote: I think the problem is valve set up the rules without thinking much about them, or more obviously, how the community would react to being forced to have to adapt to these changes when there's really no reason to. And a lot of people pay good money for their hosted servers, I don't think Valve should be moderating the servers people put up and start punishing people for something that doesn't really matter either way, I especially hope they don't think they should as well. And to think this
Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback?
Then you would be an idiot and deserve to be removed from the gene pool ;-) - Original Message - From: chillicane [EMAIL PROTECTED] I dont see whats wrong with that warning, im allergic to peanuts, and you never know, i might pick up a bag of peanuts and not realise that peanuts have peanuts in them and when i check for the warning label, its not there! This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback?
Very well said Voogru, especially like the menu analogy. I also hope Valve does fix this, ditches the Custom Tab and adds tag searching to the out of game server list, otherwise as you said its pointless no one will use it and all that dev time will have gone to waste. Regard Steve - Original Message - From: Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] The custom tab has to be scratched, all servers should be displayed by default. Players should then be allowed to filter tags they like or do not like. If a player learns to use tags, great. If they don't, they see all options. This is what's important, if you by default HIDE 'custom' servers, the majority of the players who don't care will never see the so called custom servers. The whole tag system is flawed, let's say I run a 24 server without fast respawn. No tags are added by valve without any kind of mods manipulating the tags. But I add a grapple hook for all players. What server operator in their right mind would voluntarily add a tag that results in their server effectively being delisted? NOBODY. And then what is valve going to do about that? Are they going to come tell server ops hey you HAVE to list tags. Is valve going to hire a bunch of people to look for servers to make sure they aren't modded? Doubtful. In its current implementation server operators have an incentive to avoid tags, if all servers are shown by default with their respective tags, server operators would have an incentive to SHOW their tags. It's basically saying hey! Look what we got!, but if players don't see this by default, it will be worthless. How hard is it to understand this? Valve probably realized their mistake and might be correcting it. At least I hope so. The custom tab will be an eternal cat and mouse game between server operators and valve. Valve can very easily solve the problem and make everyone happy just by having the servers all visible by default. Players who want custom, can find it. Players who want vanilla, can find it. Players who don't care or don't know what they want, or don't know how to use the filters, have all options shown to them so they can make their mind on the fly. If you go to a restaurant and the waiter gives you a menu, and without you knowing, there is two different menus, but they give you the standard menu, chances are, very few people will ever ask hey what's on the other menu Also, increased_maxplayers is probably one of the stupidest tags ever. It's like a bag of peanuts with the warning: Warning: contains peanuts. Like players can't tell it's a 32 player server without reading the tags. This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback?
I bet you it didnt take long for them and therefore doesnt bother them, probably more work to remove than make. They are working on the heavy pack and EP3 I would think since LOD4 is probably done. Maybe CSS Beta but they removed it from the server game tab so they probably put it to the side. - Original Message From: Steven Hartland [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 3:41:40 AM Subject: Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback? Very well said Voogru, especially like the menu analogy. I also hope Valve does fix this, ditches the Custom Tab and adds tag searching to the out of game server list, otherwise as you said its pointless no one will use it and all that dev time will have gone to waste. Regard Steve ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback?
I agree with the subject of this thread. But bottom line is their bottom line. If the custom tab isn't hurting their profits in game sales, then it wouldn't be a high priority to them to change it right now. But an e-mail stating We aren't going to work on this right now because we have resources allocated to new games and fixing game play breaking bugs in the existing ones. would be nice to those of us who run servers and develop for those servers to get some feedback from time to time that our concerns are important, even if not crucial at the moment. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
