Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 2:21 AM, Ahmed Kandeel astrida...@googlemail.com wrote: *Okay guys, I enacted on my idea and would like some support. I've created a steam group http://steamcommunity.com/groups/fixquickplay (Fix Quickplay Now!) as a form of petition against the changes to the Quickplay system.* Because the last time this was done http://steamcommunity.com/groups/SaveTF2AttachmentsPetition/ it worked out great... ~ Their heads are green, and their hands are blue, And they went to sea in a Sieve. - Edward Lear ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
This thread was still-born. On Feb 9, 2015 10:38 AM, Andreas Willinger aw...@gmx.at wrote: So, we will let this thread die again? Great Valve, really great, you used to be a nice company. *Von:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *Im Auftrag von *Tim Anderson *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 05. Februar 2015 22:12 *An:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com *Betreff:* [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban To the TF2 team, It has now been over a year since the decision to essentially ban community servers from quickplay by defaulting to official ones. Here are some facts of what has happened since then. - Player gain dropped 4% from the year before. - UGC highlander teams dropped 17% - Highly reduced map variety from community servers. - Even top non-quickplay servers have drastically fewer players than in 2013. You may have guaranteed new players a vanilla experience, but this is ruining the experience for the rest. Maybe nothing is being done because you do not see enough complaints about this from reddit or spuf. This is because the problem is obvious when someone connects to a pay to win server while it is not as obvious when a server is dying over the span of several months because official ones are getting all the new players. Most of the people that I talked to even knew about this change so the thought about complaining about it never crossed their minds. But just because they never knew about it doesn't mean it wasn't a problem. I hope you realize that this change is doing more harm than good. It may have stopped some complaints but this is hurting TF2 in the long run. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
I understand your misgivings Asherkin, but this issue affects more than just modders and plugin creators. This concerns nearly every admin out there and the hundreds if not thousands of group owners who have at some point in time spent (lots) of time and money on servers for TF2. While this may appear futile, we have to at least try and hope. Let alone this would give us somewhere to co-ordinate efforts. Already people from some pretty large and wide reaching communities have joined the group. With their help and help from any links we may have, this may be successful in attracting enough attention to get Valve to reconsider. It'll be tough though. (We'd have to gather at least a good 60-100K+ people). I'm in discussion with someone on Steam who suggests we do similar to this guy http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=35942239postcount=63 and look to youtube to get out the message. It doesn't hurt to try (and join a group) and I think with the combined effort of people in this mailing list trying to spread the word and a unified message and place to find it, it might just work. On 10 February 2015 at 03:20, Asher Baker asher...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 2:21 AM, Ahmed Kandeel astrida...@googlemail.com wrote: *Okay guys, I enacted on my idea and would like some support. I've created a steam group http://steamcommunity.com/groups/fixquickplay (Fix Quickplay Now!) as a form of petition against the changes to the Quickplay system.* Because the last time this was done http://steamcommunity.com/groups/SaveTF2AttachmentsPetition/ it worked out great... ~ Their heads are green, and their hands are blue, And they went to sea in a Sieve. - Edward Lear ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
Someone should get Kritzkast to talk about this. Are any of them subscribed to this list? On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 7:47 PM, Ahmed Kandeel astrida...@googlemail.com wrote: I understand your misgivings Asherkin, but this issue affects more than just modders and plugin creators. This concerns nearly every admin out there and the hundreds if not thousands of group owners who have at some point in time spent (lots) of time and money on servers for TF2. While this may appear futile, we have to at least try and hope. Let alone this would give us somewhere to co-ordinate efforts. Already people from some pretty large and wide reaching communities have joined the group. With their help and help from any links we may have, this may be successful in attracting enough attention to get Valve to reconsider. It'll be tough though. (We'd have to gather at least a good 60-100K+ people). I'm in discussion with someone on Steam who suggests we do similar to this guy http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=35942239postcount=63 and look to youtube to get out the message. It doesn't hurt to try (and join a group) and I think with the combined effort of people in this mailing list trying to spread the word and a unified message and place to find it, it might just work. On 10 February 2015 at 03:20, Asher Baker asher...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 2:21 AM, Ahmed Kandeel astrida...@googlemail.com wrote: *Okay guys, I enacted on my idea and would like some support. I've created a steam group http://steamcommunity.com/groups/fixquickplay (Fix Quickplay Now!) as a form of petition against the changes to the Quickplay system.* Because the last time this was done http://steamcommunity.com/groups/SaveTF2AttachmentsPetition/ it worked out great... ~ Their heads are green, and their hands are blue, And they went to sea in a Sieve. - Edward Lear ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
The fact that the first thought is They're working against me and not Technical limitations speaks volumes to the general attitude of this entire mailing list and gives good reason for Valve to never set foot in it. The entire mailing list acts as if they're on some holy war that will lead to humanity's extinction if some rules regarding how servers hosting a bideo jame aren't tweaked to be more receptive. While the quickplay solution has its issues, enacting psyops roleplay and treating Valve like they fucked your mother and made you watch is not how you get to any sort of solution, or any reaction short of dismissal. On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Korrey Moore ajac...@gmail.com wrote: One of my most recent replies to this thread went into moderation for some reason, and was eventually rejected. Contained nothing harmful, rude or not truthful, only honesty. But it was rejected. I wonder if this mailing list will start having posts moderated... The more likely explanation is that you quoted a large number of posts without editing it down and your post went over the maximum allowed size, so it was trashed. I forgot what the post size limit was, but it's pretty easy to reach with all of the extraneous headers, footers and formatting that gets added to every reply. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- Tee hee hee hee ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
To be honest, I doubt any of us are going to get responses. I myself as have others have tried to bring this to the community's attention via Reddit. While support has been there, it has been too weak to bring about any major action. People who post about this on the new steam based forums for TF2 usually get shot down by certain players who love the change, merely because they worship Valve. My community is in limbo at the moment since we were never big enough to weather this storm. I am waiting for KF2 to change our fortunes. I'm quite sure hosting CS:GO would suffer the same fate and L4D never seemed popular enough or team/community based enough to actually garner enough new members. While I don't myself want to let this die, I feel we need a change of direction. It would be better to start some form of petition and deliver it to Valve rather than get upset over the mailing list. On 9 February 2015 at 18:38, Andreas Willinger aw...@gmx.at wrote: So, we will let this thread die again? Great Valve, really great, you used to be a nice company. *Von:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *Im Auftrag von *Tim Anderson *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 05. Februar 2015 22:12 *An:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com *Betreff:* [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban To the TF2 team, It has now been over a year since the decision to essentially ban community servers from quickplay by defaulting to official ones. Here are some facts of what has happened since then. - Player gain dropped 4% from the year before. - UGC highlander teams dropped 17% - Highly reduced map variety from community servers. - Even top non-quickplay servers have drastically fewer players than in 2013. You may have guaranteed new players a vanilla experience, but this is ruining the experience for the rest. Maybe nothing is being done because you do not see enough complaints about this from reddit or spuf. This is because the problem is obvious when someone connects to a pay to win server while it is not as obvious when a server is dying over the span of several months because official ones are getting all the new players. Most of the people that I talked to even knew about this change so the thought about complaining about it never crossed their minds. But just because they never knew about it doesn't mean it wasn't a problem. I hope you realize that this change is doing more harm than good. It may have stopped some complaints but this is hurting TF2 in the long run. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
In fact I have an idea that is even better than a petition if anyone would like to hear it. But I'd rather keep it out of the mailing list. On 9 February 2015 at 19:35, Ahmed Kandeel astrida...@googlemail.com wrote: To be honest, I doubt any of us are going to get responses. I myself as have others have tried to bring this to the community's attention via Reddit. While support has been there, it has been too weak to bring about any major action. People who post about this on the new steam based forums for TF2 usually get shot down by certain players who love the change, merely because they worship Valve. My community is in limbo at the moment since we were never big enough to weather this storm. I am waiting for KF2 to change our fortunes. I'm quite sure hosting CS:GO would suffer the same fate and L4D never seemed popular enough or team/community based enough to actually garner enough new members. While I don't myself want to let this die, I feel we need a change of direction. It would be better to start some form of petition and deliver it to Valve rather than get upset over the mailing list. On 9 February 2015 at 18:38, Andreas Willinger aw...@gmx.at wrote: So, we will let this thread die again? Great Valve, really great, you used to be a nice company. *Von:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *Im Auftrag von *Tim Anderson *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 05. Februar 2015 22:12 *An:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com *Betreff:* [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban To the TF2 team, It has now been over a year since the decision to essentially ban community servers from quickplay by defaulting to official ones. Here are some facts of what has happened since then. - Player gain dropped 4% from the year before. - UGC highlander teams dropped 17% - Highly reduced map variety from community servers. - Even top non-quickplay servers have drastically fewer players than in 2013. You may have guaranteed new players a vanilla experience, but this is ruining the experience for the rest. Maybe nothing is being done because you do not see enough complaints about this from reddit or spuf. This is because the problem is obvious when someone connects to a pay to win server while it is not as obvious when a server is dying over the span of several months because official ones are getting all the new players. Most of the people that I talked to even knew about this change so the thought about complaining about it never crossed their minds. But just because they never knew about it doesn't mean it wasn't a problem. I hope you realize that this change is doing more harm than good. It may have stopped some complaints but this is hurting TF2 in the long run. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
One of my most recent replies to this thread went into moderation for some reason, and was eventually rejected. Contained nothing harmful, rude or not truthful, only honesty. But it was rejected. I wonder if this mailing list will start having posts moderated... On 9 February 2015 at 18:38, Andreas Willinger aw...@gmx.at wrote: So, we will let this thread die again? Great Valve, really great, you used to be a nice company. *Von:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *Im Auftrag von *Tim Anderson *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 05. Februar 2015 22:12 *An:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com *Betreff:* [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban To the TF2 team, It has now been over a year since the decision to essentially ban community servers from quickplay by defaulting to official ones. Here are some facts of what has happened since then. - Player gain dropped 4% from the year before. - UGC highlander teams dropped 17% - Highly reduced map variety from community servers. - Even top non-quickplay servers have drastically fewer players than in 2013. You may have guaranteed new players a vanilla experience, but this is ruining the experience for the rest. Maybe nothing is being done because you do not see enough complaints about this from reddit or spuf. This is because the problem is obvious when someone connects to a pay to win server while it is not as obvious when a server is dying over the span of several months because official ones are getting all the new players. Most of the people that I talked to even knew about this change so the thought about complaining about it never crossed their minds. But just because they never knew about it doesn't mean it wasn't a problem. I hope you realize that this change is doing more harm than good. It may have stopped some complaints but this is hurting TF2 in the long run. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
So, we will let this thread die again? Great Valve, really great, you used to be a nice company. Von: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] Im Auftrag von Tim Anderson Gesendet: Donnerstag, 05. Februar 2015 22:12 An: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com Betreff: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban To the TF2 team, It has now been over a year since the decision to essentially ban community servers from quickplay by defaulting to official ones. Here are some facts of what has happened since then. - Player gain dropped 4% from the year before. - UGC highlander teams dropped 17% - Highly reduced map variety from community servers. - Even top non-quickplay servers have drastically fewer players than in 2013. You may have guaranteed new players a vanilla experience, but this is ruining the experience for the rest. Maybe nothing is being done because you do not see enough complaints about this from reddit or spuf. This is because the problem is obvious when someone connects to a pay to win server while it is not as obvious when a server is dying over the span of several months because official ones are getting all the new players. Most of the people that I talked to even knew about this change so the thought about complaining about it never crossed their minds. But just because they never knew about it doesn't mean it wasn't a problem. I hope you realize that this change is doing more harm than good. It may have stopped some complaints but this is hurting TF2 in the long run. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
*Okay guys, I enacted on my idea and would like some support. I've created a steam group http://steamcommunity.com/groups/fixquickplay (Fix Quickplay Now!) as a form of petition against the changes to the Quickplay system.* With this group I'd like to show the will of the TF2 community and educate any of the newer players what it was like in the good ol' days before QP even existed, or just after it launched when community servers were still matched. The group text needs to be concise in describing the problem, how it has affected communities and possible solutions to fix the situation while still taking into consideration the quality of play for the players. I have tried my best. So far the two strongest suggestions I've read have been phased entry into community servers. You are put onto Valve servers initially for a couple of hours or more after which community servers are suggested. This could be combined in the future with a simple big button to select between community suggestions and valve suggestions. This coupled with maybe some form of comprehensive rating system that could be used to rank servers and/or a individually based blacklist system. I might try and dig up some other ideas from previous discussions on this mailing list. *I'd greatly appreciate it if you'd pass this group around to your group's members and ask them to join. I am willing to make any of the server admins on here admins of the group, especially if you are willing to make this happen.* On 9 February 2015 at 23:17, E. Olsen ceo.eol...@gmail.com wrote: I certainly agree that adopting an adversarial tone is the wrong course, but I can also understand the folks that feel that way - and lack of communication is the cause. There are some easy fixes here that could restore both good faith and help get the dialog going again between server operators and the TF2 team (good ideas come from all kinds of places, and games are better off when the devs keep the lines open). First - I think the team needs to simply let us all know what they think necessitated the change in the first place. That was something they've never specifically told us, and it's certainly hard for a server operator to help fix something if they don't know what's (perceived to be) broke. Second - they need to take some feedback about the best way to go about fixing that problem while still treating the community servers as equals within the system. There is a ton of good ideas this community can generate, but we need to be allowed to offer solutions to the problem, not simply thrown under the bus with no explanation. Third - I think we all need to approach this the way the Valve team probably is, and that is what is the best thing for TF2 in a business sense? Looking at the overall traffic stats, despite TF2's popularity, the worldwide player traffic for the game has remained stagnant for the last couple of years (neither growing, nor shrinking to a great degree). Now, perhaps the TF2 team considers that a validation of their decision to route the majority of players to their own servers, BUT I would instead suggest that player traffic is stagnant because the game is no longer developing the kind of long-term players that community server fostered. New players are no longer finding regular servers to play on, and are instead playing random games on random (official) servers for a short amount of time, getting bored with the lack of diversity (not to mention the lack of TF2's teamwork-oriented culture that community servers build), and moving on to other games. If that were not the case, the numbers would be seeing a slow, steady climb...instead of the virtual flat line we've seen for the past 18 or so months. The problem with that (in a business sense) is that new players are a finite resource, and sooner or later that well is going to start drying up. The question the TF2 team needs to ask itself is it then worth it to try and once again support and advocate communities built around TF2 that foster longer-term players, or are they simply resigned to allow the cash-cow that TF2 is to continue to stagnate and die on the vine? In short - I believe the way to bring Valve around to our way of thinking (i.e. that community-driven servers are essential to TF2's continued profitability and success) is to show them the value we bring to the game. but first, we need to know that they're listening. On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Robert Paulson thepauls...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
It is rather rude of you to assume that all blocked emails were simply blocked due to a large size. While that was the reason I deleted all the replies this time, I have previously received messages like this even with all the replies deleted and having the wording rearranged 10 different times before I just gave up: The reason it is being held: The message headers matched a filter rule This is a holy war that will lead to humanity's extinction? We are some of TF2's biggest fans and the TF team even seems to think we are a threat. Some of us have spent thousands of hours and dollars on this game and policies that are killing our servers have been unchanged for over a year now. You probably haven't put in as much time and money into TF2, but don't assume everyone else is in the same position. On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Lyrai lyr...@gmail.com wrote: The fact that the first thought is They're working against me and not Technical limitations speaks volumes to the general attitude of this entire mailing list and gives good reason for Valve to never set foot in it. The entire mailing list acts as if they're on some holy war that will lead to humanity's extinction if some rules regarding how servers hosting a bideo jame aren't tweaked to be more receptive. While the quickplay solution has its issues, enacting psyops roleplay and treating Valve like they fucked your mother and made you watch is not how you get to any sort of solution, or any reaction short of dismissal. On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Korrey Moore ajac...@gmail.com wrote: One of my most recent replies to this thread went into moderation for some reason, and was eventually rejected. Contained nothing harmful, rude or not truthful, only honesty. But it was rejected. I wonder if this mailing list will start having posts moderated... The more likely explanation is that you quoted a large number of posts without editing it down and your post went over the maximum allowed size, so it was trashed. I forgot what the post size limit was, but it's pretty easy to reach with all of the extraneous headers, footers and formatting that gets added to every reply. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- Tee hee hee hee ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
I certainly agree that adopting an adversarial tone is the wrong course, but I can also understand the folks that feel that way - and lack of communication is the cause. There are some easy fixes here that could restore both good faith and help get the dialog going again between server operators and the TF2 team (good ideas come from all kinds of places, and games are better off when the devs keep the lines open). First - I think the team needs to simply let us all know what they think necessitated the change in the first place. That was something they've never specifically told us, and it's certainly hard for a server operator to help fix something if they don't know what's (perceived to be) broke. Second - they need to take some feedback about the best way to go about fixing that problem while still treating the community servers as equals within the system. There is a ton of good ideas this community can generate, but we need to be allowed to offer solutions to the problem, not simply thrown under the bus with no explanation. Third - I think we all need to approach this the way the Valve team probably is, and that is what is the best thing for TF2 in a business sense? Looking at the overall traffic stats, despite TF2's popularity, the worldwide player traffic for the game has remained stagnant for the last couple of years (neither growing, nor shrinking to a great degree). Now, perhaps the TF2 team considers that a validation of their decision to route the majority of players to their own servers, BUT I would instead suggest that player traffic is stagnant because the game is no longer developing the kind of long-term players that community server fostered. New players are no longer finding regular servers to play on, and are instead playing random games on random (official) servers for a short amount of time, getting bored with the lack of diversity (not to mention the lack of TF2's teamwork-oriented culture that community servers build), and moving on to other games. If that were not the case, the numbers would be seeing a slow, steady climb...instead of the virtual flat line we've seen for the past 18 or so months. The problem with that (in a business sense) is that new players are a finite resource, and sooner or later that well is going to start drying up. The question the TF2 team needs to ask itself is it then worth it to try and once again support and advocate communities built around TF2 that foster longer-term players, or are they simply resigned to allow the cash-cow that TF2 is to continue to stagnate and die on the vine? In short - I believe the way to bring Valve around to our way of thinking (i.e. that community-driven servers are essential to TF2's continued profitability and success) is to show them the value we bring to the game. but first, we need to know that they're listening. On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Robert Paulson thepauls...@gmail.com wrote: It is rather rude of you to assume that all blocked emails were simply blocked due to a large size. While that was the reason I deleted all the replies this time, I have previously received messages like this even with all the replies deleted and having the wording rearranged 10 different times before I just gave up: The reason it is being held: The message headers matched a filter rule This is a holy war that will lead to humanity's extinction? We are some of TF2's biggest fans and the TF team even seems to think we are a threat. Some of us have spent thousands of hours and dollars on this game and policies that are killing our servers have been unchanged for over a year now. You probably haven't put in as much time and money into TF2, but don't assume everyone else is in the same position. On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 12:17 PM, Lyrai lyr...@gmail.com wrote: The fact that the first thought is They're working against me and not Technical limitations speaks volumes to the general attitude of this entire mailing list and gives good reason for Valve to never set foot in it. The entire mailing list acts as if they're on some holy war that will lead to humanity's extinction if some rules regarding how servers hosting a bideo jame aren't tweaked to be more receptive. While the quickplay solution has its issues, enacting psyops roleplay and treating Valve like they fucked your mother and made you watch is not how you get to any sort of solution, or any reaction short of dismissal. On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Korrey Moore ajac...@gmail.com wrote: One of my most recent replies to this thread went into moderation for some reason, and was eventually rejected. Contained nothing harmful, rude or not truthful, only honesty. But it was rejected. I wonder if this mailing list will start having posts moderated... The more likely explanation is that you quoted a large number of posts without editing it down and your post went over the maximum allowed size, so it was trashed. I forgot what
Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
One of my most recent replies to this thread went into moderation for some reason, and was eventually rejected. Contained nothing harmful, rude or not truthful, only honesty. But it was rejected. I wonder if this mailing list will start having posts moderated... The more likely explanation is that you quoted a large number of posts without editing it down and your post went over the maximum allowed size, so it was trashed. I forgot what the post size limit was, but it's pretty easy to reach with all of the extraneous headers, footers and formatting that gets added to every reply. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
, despite TF2's popularity, the worldwide player traffic for the game has remained stagnant for the last couple of years (neither growing, nor shrinking to a great degree). Now, perhaps the TF2 team considers that a validation of their decision to route the majority of players to their own servers, BUT I would instead suggest that player traffic is stagnant because the game is no longer developing the kind of long-term players that community server fostered. New players are no longer finding regular servers to play on, and are instead playing random games on random (official) servers for a short amount of time, getting bored with the lack of diversity (not to mention the lack of TF2's teamwork-oriented culture that community servers build), and moving on to other games. If that were not the case, the numbers would be seeing a slow, steady climb...instead of the virtual flat line we've seen for the past 18 or so months. The problem with that (in a business sense) is that new players are a finite resource, and sooner or later that well is going to start drying up. The question the TF2 team needs to ask itself is it then worth it to try and once again support and advocate communities built around TF2 that foster longer-term players, or are they simply resigned to allow the cash-cow that TF2 is to continue to stagnate and die on the vine? In short - I believe the way to bring Valve around to our way of thinking (i.e. that community-driven servers are essential to TF2's continued profitability and success) is to show them the value we bring to the game. but first, we need to know that they're listening. On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Robert Paulson thepauls...@gmail.com wrote: SNIP ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/hlds/attachments/20150210/c73d351d/attachment-0001.html -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2015 18:42:06 -0800 From: Weasels Lair wea...@weaselslair.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban Message-ID: CAEpdgaDX9YNHoBEeF_bb9QOE7vv25NqiYZ=rjeXy=b1pnx3...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 This thread was still-born. On Feb 9, 2015 10:38 AM, Andreas Willinger aw...@gmx.at wrote: So, we will let this thread die again? Great Valve, really great, you used to be a nice company. *Von:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *Im Auftrag von *Tim Anderson *Gesendet:* Donnerstag, 05. Februar 2015 22:12 *An:* hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com *Betreff:* [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban To the TF2 team, It has now been over a year since the decision to essentially ban community servers from quickplay by defaulting to official ones. Here are some facts of what has happened since then. - Player gain dropped 4% from the year before. - UGC highlander teams dropped 17% - Highly reduced map variety from community servers. - Even top non-quickplay servers have drastically fewer players than in 2013. You may have guaranteed new players a vanilla experience, but this is ruining the experience for the rest. Maybe nothing is being done because you do not see enough complaints about this from reddit or spuf. This is because the problem is obvious when someone connects to a pay to win server while it is not as obvious when a server is dying over the span of several months because official ones are getting all the new players. Most of the people that I talked to even knew about this change so the thought about complaining about it never crossed their minds. But just because they never knew about it doesn't mean it wasn't a problem. I hope you realize that this change is doing more harm than good. It may have stopped some complaints but this is hurting TF2 in the long run. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/hlds/attachments/20150209/eb2ba252/attachment-0001.html -- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 03:20:08 + From: Asher Baker asher...@gmail.com To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban Message-ID: CA+Q08fGTBKjEAnTRD6pjFivL99JyMF3dX=0xwsdlpf0wbkv...@mail.gmail.com
Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
I’ve reached the point where I no longer lose sleep over this. At this point I don’t expect any growth of TF2. All I care about anymore is trying to keep my the people in my community around as long as they still care about TF2. Trying to convince Valve of anything is a waste of time for me. I’d have better luck arguing with a brick wall. Valve is dead. TF2 is dying. All I care about anymore is logging on from time to time to play some Dustbowl or payload or something. I liked trading for a while but even that is tedious and boring now that I have to alt-tab out of the game to check my email every time I want to swap a weapon. Valve used to make intelligent decisions. I don’t know what happened, but that company is no more. And it’s a damn shame. Alexander Corn “Dr. McKay” http://www.doctormckay.com http://www.doctormckay.com From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Willinger Sent: Monday, February 9, 2015 1:39 PM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban So, we will let this thread die again? Great Valve, really great, you used to be a nice company. Von: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] Im Auftrag von Tim Anderson Gesendet: Donnerstag, 05. Februar 2015 22:12 An: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com Betreff: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban To the TF2 team, It has now been over a year since the decision to essentially ban community servers from quickplay by defaulting to official ones. Here are some facts of what has happened since then. - Player gain dropped 4% from the year before. - UGC highlander teams dropped 17% - Highly reduced map variety from community servers. - Even top non-quickplay servers have drastically fewer players than in 2013. You may have guaranteed new players a vanilla experience, but this is ruining the experience for the rest. Maybe nothing is being done because you do not see enough complaints about this from reddit or spuf. This is because the problem is obvious when someone connects to a pay to win server while it is not as obvious when a server is dying over the span of several months because official ones are getting all the new players. Most of the people that I talked to even knew about this change so the thought about complaining about it never crossed their minds. But just because they never knew about it doesn't mean it wasn't a problem. I hope you realize that this change is doing more harm than good. It may have stopped some complaints but this is hurting TF2 in the long run. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Rethinking the community quickplay ban
Speak for yourself Supreet. I think most would agree that your adversarial stance on this matter is profoundly unhelpful for both yourself and other members of this mailiing list. I also wonder what level of intellect would be required to come to the conclusion that being relegated to the server browser entirely is somehow an improvement to the present situation. Far beyond my comprehension for sure. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
