Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list
- Original Message - From: Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list hlds_li...@list.valvesoftware.com; hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 1:34 AM Subject: [hlds] Forum vs. email list I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the archives, or spends hours researching. I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the format of this list. I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a forum was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most server admins prefer: 1.) Receiving push notifications. 2.) Viewing the list in their email client #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for announcements), while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the opposite preference. A forum has several compelling advantages: 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions Only if the search is good, most forums search fail to find answers as their search methods are: 1. poor 2. slow 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any email distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the 's and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put everywhere.) It is easier to follow if your new to the conversation, but if your following the a topic its actually slower, as you need to constantly load lots of old content and scroll past it. 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify something, rather than making a new post. This can actually be a down side as it means that its impossible for people to know that you've changed something. 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate, belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc. Just ban users who abuse, tbh forums attract this behavour much more than a mailing list. 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in. Not really, when your looking for new posts it will still contantly pop up, which is not the case in a good mailing list email client. Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient. forums don't work for me as they are too much overhead, I don't have time to constantly check a forum, where as I do get chance to skim through the emails from a mailing list and pick out those topics where are important to me. Even with an email feed a forum has some notable disadvantages:- 1. Its more time consuming to reply, so you would need to add email reply submission. 2. It attracts more spam and useless comments, email lists are older and keep the usual forum trolls out. You get a much higher noise to useful content ratio on forums. 3. Without push I can only read your news in that location, as a GSP with 30+ similar lists across the industry we need it to be accessible in one place which an email list provides. If the list where to migrate to a forum, I would be highly unlikely to use it which would mean missing out on important announcements and good content, which would be shame; so my vote would be to keep it how it is which works well for what we use it for. Regards Steve This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone +44 845 868 1337 or return the E.mail to postmas...@multiplay.co.uk. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list
I would be happy with just hlds_announce list. :) On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 7:34 PM, Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote: I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the archives, or spends hours researching. I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the format of this list. I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a forum was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most server admins prefer: 1.) Receiving push notifications. 2.) Viewing the list in their email client #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for announcements), while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the opposite preference. A forum has several compelling advantages: 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any email distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the 's and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put everywhere.) 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify something, rather than making a new post. 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate, belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc. 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in. Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient. It would be good to get some opinions about how people prefer to consume the information on this list. Please chime in. Your humble servant, - Fletch ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list
Actually, no. I probably wouldn't follow it in a Web browser. As it is everything gets pinged straight to my phone. On 25 Oct 2011, at 01:34, Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote: I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the archives, or spends hours researching. I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the format of this list. I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a forum was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most server admins prefer: 1.) Receiving push notifications. 2.) Viewing the list in their email client #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for announcements), while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the opposite preference. A forum has several compelling advantages: 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any email distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the 's and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put everywhere.) 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify something, rather than making a new post. 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate, belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc. 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in. Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient. It would be good to get some opinions about how people prefer to consume the information on this list. Please chime in. Your humble servant, - Fletch ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list
You know there is subscribe in forums now-a-days which notify you by email what you want to know. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 7:36 PM, James Botting bottswan...@googlemail.com wrote: Actually, no. I probably wouldn't follow it in a Web browser. As it is everything gets pinged straight to my phone. On 25 Oct 2011, at 01:34, Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote: I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the archives, or spends hours researching. I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the format of this list. I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a forum was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most server admins prefer: 1.) Receiving push notifications. 2.) Viewing the list in their email client #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for announcements), while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the opposite preference. A forum has several compelling advantages: 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any email distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the 's and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put everywhere.) 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify something, rather than making a new post. 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate, belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc. 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in. Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient. It would be good to get some opinions about how people prefer to consume the information on this list. Please chime in. Your humble servant, - Fletch ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list
I think announcements are really nice in the list format, troubleshooting and trolling seems to be better in a forum. I know when I'm dealing with an issue I visit the forum frequently to stay up to date. It would be nice to not miss update announcements mixed in with people asking about server specs which seemed to have triggered a lot of discussion -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of James Botting Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 6:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list Actually, no. I probably wouldn't follow it in a Web browser. As it is everything gets pinged straight to my phone. On 25 Oct 2011, at 01:34, Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote: I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the archives, or spends hours researching. I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the format of this list. I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a forum was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most server admins prefer: 1.) Receiving push notifications. 2.) Viewing the list in their email client #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for announcements), while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the opposite preference. A forum has several compelling advantages: 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any email distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the 's and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put everywhere.) 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify something, rather than making a new post. 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate, belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc. 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in. Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient. It would be good to get some opinions about how people prefer to consume the information on this list. Please chime in. Your humble servant, - Fletch ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list
Yes, which the redirect you to a web page which isnt anywhere near as nice to read than the native mail app on my iPhone. Plus in my area im on GPRS so web pages will take a lot longer to load than an already downloaded email. On 25 Oct 2011, at 01:39, Kigen theki...@gmail.com wrote: You know there is subscribe in forums now-a-days which notify you by email what you want to know. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 7:36 PM, James Botting bottswan...@googlemail.com wrote: Actually, no. I probably wouldn't follow it in a Web browser. As it is everything gets pinged straight to my phone. On 25 Oct 2011, at 01:34, Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote: I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the archives, or spends hours researching. I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the format of this list. I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a forum was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most server admins prefer: 1.) Receiving push notifications. 2.) Viewing the list in their email client #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for announcements), while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the opposite preference. A forum has several compelling advantages: 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any email distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the 's and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put everywhere.) 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify something, rather than making a new post. 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate, belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc. 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in. Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient. It would be good to get some opinions about how people prefer to consume the information on this list. Please chime in. Your humble servant, - Fletch ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list
Most forum email notification systems have the following problems: - The mail doesnt contain the message, but simply a link to the forums - You can't reply to the mail (and have that message be posted on the forums that way) - Mails arent grouped together (for gmail users), but each notification is a new entry in the inbox On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 02:40, Jake Haldeman jake.halde...@neumont.edu wrote: I think announcements are really nice in the list format, troubleshooting and trolling seems to be better in a forum. I know when I'm dealing with an issue I visit the forum frequently to stay up to date. It would be nice to not miss update announcements mixed in with people asking about server specs which seemed to have triggered a lot of discussion -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of James Botting Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 6:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list Actually, no. I probably wouldn't follow it in a Web browser. As it is everything gets pinged straight to my phone. On 25 Oct 2011, at 01:34, Fletcher Dunn fletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote: I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the archives, or spends hours researching. I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the format of this list. I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a forum was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most server admins prefer: 1.) Receiving push notifications. 2.) Viewing the list in their email client #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for announcements), while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the opposite preference. A forum has several compelling advantages: 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any email distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the 's and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put everywhere.) 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify something, rather than making a new post. 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate, belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc. 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in. Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient. It would be good to get some opinions about how people prefer to consume the information on this list. Please chime in. Your humble servant, - Fletch ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list
Plus, most forum email notification systems only email once there is a new post to a thread and not once for each new post. On 10/24/2011 8:45 PM, Wander wrote: Most forum email notification systems have the following problems: - The mail doesnt contain the message, but simply a link to the forums - You can't reply to the mail (and have that message be posted on the forums that way) - Mails arent grouped together (for gmail users), but each notification is a new entry in the inbox On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 02:40, Jake Haldemanjake.halde...@neumont.edu wrote: I think announcements are really nice in the list format, troubleshooting and trolling seems to be better in a forum. I know when I'm dealing with an issue I visit the forum frequently to stay up to date. It would be nice to not miss update announcements mixed in with people asking about server specs which seemed to have triggered a lot of discussion -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of James Botting Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 6:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list Actually, no. I probably wouldn't follow it in a Web browser. As it is everything gets pinged straight to my phone. On 25 Oct 2011, at 01:34, Fletcher Dunnfletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote: I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the archives, or spends hours researching. I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the format of this list. I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a forum was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most server admins prefer: 1.) Receiving push notifications. 2.) Viewing the list in their email client #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for announcements), while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the opposite preference. A forum has several compelling advantages: 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any email distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the's and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put everywhere.) 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify something, rather than making a new post. 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate, belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc. 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in. Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient. It would be good to get some opinions about how people prefer to consume the information on this list. Please chime in. Your humble servant, - Fletch ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list
I've been following the mailing list for only a few weeks now, but if I may make a suggestion I would: 1) Continue server announcements by Valve personnel through email for the push notifications. 2) Also post the announcement to a forum thread where people can reply to it and ask questions. And more importantly make the forum tapatalk compatible so it is easier to follow from our mobile devices and uses less bandwidth. Sent from my Windows Phone -Original Message- From: Nicholas Hastings Sent: 10/24/2011 5:46 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list Plus, most forum email notification systems only email once there is a new post to a thread and not once for each new post. On 10/24/2011 8:45 PM, Wander wrote: Most forum email notification systems have the following problems: - The mail doesnt contain the message, but simply a link to the forums - You can't reply to the mail (and have that message be posted on the forums that way) - Mails arent grouped together (for gmail users), but each notification is a new entry in the inbox On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 02:40, Jake Haldemanjake.halde...@neumont.edu wrote: I think announcements are really nice in the list format, troubleshooting and trolling seems to be better in a forum. I know when I'm dealing with an issue I visit the forum frequently to stay up to date. It would be nice to not miss update announcements mixed in with people asking about server specs which seemed to have triggered a lot of discussion -Original Message- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of James Botting Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 6:36 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list Actually, no. I probably wouldn't follow it in a Web browser. As it is everything gets pinged straight to my phone. On 25 Oct 2011, at 01:34, Fletcher Dunnfletch...@valvesoftware.com wrote: I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the archives, or spends hours researching. I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the format of this list. I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a forum was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most server admins prefer: 1.) Receiving push notifications. 2.) Viewing the list in their email client #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for announcements), while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the opposite preference. A forum has several compelling advantages: 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any email distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the's and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put everywhere.) 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify something, rather than making a new post. 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate, belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc. 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in. Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient. It would be good to get some opinions about how people prefer to consume the information on this list. Please chime in. Your humble servant, - Fletch ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list
I like the ease of access I get with the mailing list. I maybe able to get emails about new topics, but I can't just hit the reply button and go from there. It may seem easy just to open a web browser and go to the forums, but it's a lot of work for a quick reply to confirm a issue with a update or a plugin. While we do have issues on the mailing list every now and then, it doesn't seem to happen to often and come in spurts. Maybe some explanation of what is acceptable on the mailing list. Also a small list to new subscribers of what is more for the forums and not the mailing list. Also my phones does a lot better with this then loading webpages and I don't want a new phone =P On 10/24/2011 8:34 PM, Fletcher Dunn wrote: I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the archives, or spends hours researching. I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the format of this list. I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a forum was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most server admins prefer: 1.) Receiving push notifications. 2.) Viewing the list in their email client #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for announcements), while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the opposite preference. A forum has several compelling advantages: 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any email distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the's and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put everywhere.) 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify something, rather than making a new post. 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate, belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc. 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in. Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient. It would be good to get some opinions about how people prefer to consume the information on this list. Please chime in. Your humble servant, - Fletch ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list
Keep the list. It is still far more useful than the SRCDS forums on steampowered.com. But above all, keep the announcements. Having those go to your phone so you know an update just hit is just great. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:38 PM, SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com wrote: I like the ease of access I get with the mailing list. I maybe able to get emails about new topics, but I can't just hit the reply button and go from there. It may seem easy just to open a web browser and go to the forums, but it's a lot of work for a quick reply to confirm a issue with a update or a plugin. While we do have issues on the mailing list every now and then, it doesn't seem to happen to often and come in spurts. Maybe some explanation of what is acceptable on the mailing list. Also a small list to new subscribers of what is more for the forums and not the mailing list. Also my phones does a lot better with this then loading webpages and I don't want a new phone =P On 10/24/2011 8:34 PM, Fletcher Dunn wrote: I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the archives, or spends hours researching. I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the format of this list. I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a forum was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most server admins prefer: 1.) Receiving push notifications. 2.) Viewing the list in their email client #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for announcements), while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the opposite preference. A forum has several compelling advantages: 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any email distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the's and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put everywhere.) 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify something, rather than making a new post. 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate, belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc. 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in. Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient. It would be good to get some opinions about how people prefer to consume the information on this list. Please chime in. Your humble servant, - Fletch __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/**mailman/listinfo/hldshttp://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/**mailman/listinfo/hldshttp://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list
Definitely throwing in my vote for the list approach.. I like that the 'push notification' in the case of the mailing list is the content itself arriving in my inbox, ready to be searched, saved, forwarded, etc. The alternative or additional presence of a forum probably wouldn't *hurt*anything, but if it's going to send out notifications whenever anything of significance happens it'll either a) contain all pertinent details, replicating the list or b) contain less detail, and therefore be less useful than the list. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 7:49 PM, 1nsane 1nsane...@gmail.com wrote: Keep the list. It is still far more useful than the SRCDS forums on steampowered.com. But above all, keep the announcements. Having those go to your phone so you know an update just hit is just great. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:38 PM, SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com wrote: I like the ease of access I get with the mailing list. I maybe able to get emails about new topics, but I can't just hit the reply button and go from there. It may seem easy just to open a web browser and go to the forums, but it's a lot of work for a quick reply to confirm a issue with a update or a plugin. While we do have issues on the mailing list every now and then, it doesn't seem to happen to often and come in spurts. Maybe some explanation of what is acceptable on the mailing list. Also a small list to new subscribers of what is more for the forums and not the mailing list. Also my phones does a lot better with this then loading webpages and I don't want a new phone =P On 10/24/2011 8:34 PM, Fletcher Dunn wrote: I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the archives, or spends hours researching. I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the format of this list. I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a forum was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most server admins prefer: 1.) Receiving push notifications. 2.) Viewing the list in their email client #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for announcements), while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the opposite preference. A forum has several compelling advantages: 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any email distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the's and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put everywhere.) 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify something, rather than making a new post. 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate, belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc. 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in. Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient. It would be good to get some opinions about how people prefer to consume the information on this list. Please chime in. Your humble servant, - Fletch __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/**mailman/listinfo/hldshttp://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/**mailman/listinfo/hldshttp://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list
My 2 cents. Personally I proffer the email list. It's just all around more convenient. Most of us have our own forums to maintain without the need to be diverting to another. Emails save the time of searching, catching up etc. As Nicholas mentioned most forums only inform you once of a reply and stop sending notifications until you visit the forum again. However, it would appear of late that hostility prevails at least twice a day. People could chill and remember when they first started out and learned to hold their tongues and count to ten before belittling people in the list just because it isn't running the way they want it to. Forum form would probably only amplify the opportunity for asshats to troll and abuse those who are less knowledgeable. Perhaps if people wander off track and divert the purpose of the list, a simple link to an appropriate source of help would keep the less knowledgeable happy and aggression at bay? Forums take allot of work and moderation. Emails will always be less time consuming. I appreciate the input and constant flow of list mail. From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of 1nsane Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011 12:50 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list Keep the list. It is still far more useful than the SRCDS forums on steampowered.com. But above all, keep the announcements. Having those go to your phone so you know an update just hit is just great. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:38 PM, SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com wrote: I like the ease of access I get with the mailing list. I maybe able to get emails about new topics, but I can't just hit the reply button and go from there. It may seem easy just to open a web browser and go to the forums, but it's a lot of work for a quick reply to confirm a issue with a update or a plugin. While we do have issues on the mailing list every now and then, it doesn't seem to happen to often and come in spurts. Maybe some explanation of what is acceptable on the mailing list. Also a small list to new subscribers of what is more for the forums and not the mailing list. Also my phones does a lot better with this then loading webpages and I don't want a new phone =P On 10/24/2011 8:34 PM, Fletcher Dunn wrote: I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the archives, or spends hours researching. I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the format of this list. I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a forum was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most server admins prefer: 1.) Receiving push notifications. 2.) Viewing the list in their email client #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for announcements), while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the opposite preference. A forum has several compelling advantages: 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any email distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the's and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put everywhere.) 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify something, rather than making a new post. 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate, belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc. 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in. Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient. It would be good to get some opinions about how people prefer to consume the information on this list. Please chime in. Your humble servant, - Fletch ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list
I prefer the mailing list too. It's simple and easy to do on my phone. On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Ant essential...@bigpond.com wrote: My 2 cents. Personally I proffer the email list. It's just all around more convenient. Most of us have our own forums to maintain without the need to be diverting to another. Emails save the time of searching, catching up etc. As Nicholas mentioned most forums only inform you once of a reply and stop sending notifications until you visit the forum again. ** ** However, it would appear of late that hostility prevails at least twice a day. People could chill and remember when they first started out and learned to hold their tongues and count to ten before belittling people in the list just because it isn't running the way they want it to. ** ** Forum form would probably only amplify the opportunity for asshats to troll and abuse those who are less knowledgeable. Perhaps if people wander off track and divert the purpose of the list, a simple link to an appropriate source of help would keep the less knowledgeable happy and aggression at bay? ** ** Forums take allot of work and moderation. Emails will always be less time consuming. I appreciate the input and constant flow of list mail. ** ** ** ** ** ** *From:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *1nsane *Sent:* Tuesday, 25 October 2011 12:50 PM *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list ** ** Keep the list. It is still far more useful than the SRCDS forums on steampowered.com. ** ** But above all, keep the announcements. Having those go to your phone so you know an update just hit is just great. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:38 PM, SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com wrote: I like the ease of access I get with the mailing list. I maybe able to get emails about new topics, but I can't just hit the reply button and go from there. It may seem easy just to open a web browser and go to the forums, but it's a lot of work for a quick reply to confirm a issue with a update or a plugin. While we do have issues on the mailing list every now and then, it doesn't seem to happen to often and come in spurts. Maybe some explanation of what is acceptable on the mailing list. Also a small list to new subscribers of what is more for the forums and not the mailing list. Also my phones does a lot better with this then loading webpages and I don't want a new phone =P On 10/24/2011 8:34 PM, Fletcher Dunn wrote: I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the archives, or spends hours researching. I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the format of this list. I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a forum was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most server admins prefer: 1.) Receiving push notifications. 2.) Viewing the list in their email client #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for announcements), while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the opposite preference. A forum has several compelling advantages: 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any email distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the's and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put everywhere.) 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify something, rather than making a new post. 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate, belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc. 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in. Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient. It would be good to get some opinions about how people prefer to consume the information on this list. Please chime in. Your humble servant, - Fletch ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list
I have been reading this email list on/off since ~June 2006 and I really had no issues over the years. So in my opinion, we should keep it the way it is. It worked for all these years, so why change it now? Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 17:04:26 +1300 From: robl...@gmail.com To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list I prefer the mailing list too. It's simple and easy to do on my phone. On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Ant essential...@bigpond.com wrote: My 2 cents. Personally I proffer the email list. It's just all around more convenient. Most of us have our own forums to maintain without the need to be diverting to another. Emails save the time of searching, catching up etc. As Nicholas mentioned most forums only inform you once of a reply and stop sending notifications until you visit the forum again. However, it would appear of late that hostility prevails at least twice a day. People could chill and remember when they first started out and learned to hold their tongues and count to ten before belittling people in the list just because it isn't running the way they want it to. Forum form would probably only amplify the opportunity for asshats to troll and abuse those who are less knowledgeable. Perhaps if people wander off track and divert the purpose of the list, a simple link to an appropriate source of help would keep the less knowledgeable happy and aggression at bay? Forums take allot of work and moderation. Emails will always be less time consuming. I appreciate the input and constant flow of list mail. From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of 1nsane Sent: Tuesday, 25 October 2011 12:50 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Forum vs. email list Keep the list. It is still far more useful than the SRCDS forums on steampowered.com. But above all, keep the announcements. Having those go to your phone so you know an update just hit is just great. On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:38 PM, SakeFox sake...@kingdomsend.com wrote:I like the ease of access I get with the mailing list. I maybe able to get emails about new topics, but I can't just hit the reply button and go from there. It may seem easy just to open a web browser and go to the forums, but it's a lot of work for a quick reply to confirm a issue with a update or a plugin. While we do have issues on the mailing list every now and then, it doesn't seem to happen to often and come in spurts. Maybe some explanation of what is acceptable on the mailing list. Also a small list to new subscribers of what is more for the forums and not the mailing list. Also my phones does a lot better with this then loading webpages and I don't want a new phone =P On 10/24/2011 8:34 PM, Fletcher Dunn wrote: I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the archives, or spends hours researching.I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the format of this list. I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a forum was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most server admins prefer: 1.) Receiving push notifications. 2.) Viewing the list in their email client #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for announcements), while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the opposite preference. A forum has several compelling advantages: 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any email distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the's and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put everywhere.) 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify something, rather than making a new post. 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate, belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc. 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in. Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient. It would be good to get some opinions about how people prefer to consume the information on this list. Please chime in. Your humble servant, - Fletch ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
