Re: [HOT] [activation hotosm] Hurricane Matthew response : Imagery/UAV coordination and support to local Haitian UAV capacities

[nicolas chavent]

Hi everyone,

Neat reading about your UAV achievements Fred, how these serve and will
serve the current response and to learn about your now volunteering work
for the Haitian government.

Dale, Blake and Cristiano: none asked for HOT US Inc to step into UAV
coordination, but just to consider and support via small means a local
collective of professional dronists highly cognizant of Haiti in
emergency/development contexts, nothing more!

The lack of consideration and support from HOT US Inc for the local UAV
capacities reveals what HOT lost since 2010 and ability to change the game
in terms of pre-crisis GIS baseline generation tied to effective local
community capacities building schemes in an agile manner. Fred, none has
spoken in your name but referred to this experience attached to your name
which acts as a revelatory of what HOT US Inc did lose and actually is.
This casts doubts about the reality of HOT US Inc local community support
schemes and make one wonder if they are just useful communication and
fundraising tools.

When anyone who conveyed (HOT US Inc included) to the Word Humanitarian
Summit (WHS) agreed to drastic change in the way the humanitarian system
works and the need to put at its centre empowered local communities, HOT US
inc lack of consideration/inclusion of Haitian local capacities forged
through the Haiti 2010 Quake humanitarian and reconstruction efforts speaks
for itself.

Lastly, a word on the conditions under which those emails were written. I
am coordinating with Severin Ménard (and seconded in this by Augustin Doury
and Amadou Ndong) a team of 30 west african mappers to run three capacity
building trainings of 10 days each around OSM/QGIS/GeOrchestra in Bouaké
for overall 60 persons. At the same time we had been engaging and
organizing Western African and Haitian mappers in the current OSM response.
The last 10 days had all to do with a very intense humanitarian deploy fo
14/16 hours of work a day. I wish I can spend more time training,
organizing Western African to grow their ability to map in development and
in humanitarian contexts as well as supporting Haitians responding to
Cyclone Matthew via a decentralized and openstreetmap response inclusive of
local mappers..

Best,
Nicolas






On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 12:54 PM, FredM  wrote:

> I finally took the time to read,
>
> And by the way, I want to send a message to HT talk and OSM Haiti.
>
> We tried our best to continue to run our drone operation to highlight some
> problem in Haiti. Since 2012, we tried to find some fund to fly over Canaan
> area.
>
> Since 2014 or earlier, international community came in Canaan Area and we
> had to stop our mapping party in Canaan. So in 2015 we proposed to fly over
> this area to ARC and others to maintain a link with this area. We asked to
> cover the cost of the drone and the team.
>
> Our goal is to finalize our methodology, and cover the cost to run a drone
> unit in Haiti (it is quite costly) to help other community.
>
> http://potentiel3-0.org/index.php/en/
>
> As I am in Haiti, we can discuss about it ( 36 19 45 44)  but again we
> spent our own money, and received in 2014 the help of Cartong. We got a
> small contract with ARC just now in fact. It help us to pay a new camera
> and fix our drone
>
> But our goal is still the same highlight some problem with accuracy and
> find local solution.
>
> So I have tried to make a coordination with hot Tanzania project this year
> but I didn't success. At least I have tried
>
> Right now, we are using drone to find the best warehouse for the operation
> in Jeremie, later for the damage assessment.  I am volunteer for the
> Haitian government for the moment.
>
> All the best and thanks all for the work done for Haiti.  And help us to
> build local capacity, open mind,  it is the most important at the end.
>
> FredM
>
>
> wrote:
>
> Great job Fred, glad that you've managed to get things going on your own.
> When if you have the imagery available please feel free to let us know and
> we can make sure it's available on OpenAerialMap.
>
> Stay safe and we wish you the best.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 8:34 PM, FredM  wrote:
>
>> Oups,
>>
>> Didn't read all your message. I have seen my name but I don't have time
>> for that.
>>
>> Could you stop to use it as I have no time to cross check what you said.
>> Fred can talk for Fred : )
>>
>> Just came back from an assessment in Jeremie for the gouvernment. We have
>> huge work to do. So I am right now with the CNIGS and civil protection. In
>> the field we flew drone for planification ( Warehouse, fix the port, damage
>> assessment, etc...)
>>
>> Let me know if you have more UAV resource, For now we have 2 ebee and 3
>> quadecopter. + Satellite imagery.
>>
>> Drone imagery is useful, we are using it in our NGO to promote technology
>> and use it for local community. Not for the business or the storytelling.
>>
>> Only for operational purpose,... far away from the "Humanitarian circus"
>

Re: [HOT] [activation hotosm] Hurricane Matthew response : Imagery/UAV coordination and support to local Haitian UAV capacities

[FredM]

I finally took the time to read,

And by the way, I want to send a message to HT talk and OSM Haiti.

We tried our best to continue to run our drone operation to highlight 
some problem in Haiti. Since 2012, we tried to find some fund to fly 
over Canaan area.


Since 2014 or earlier, international community came in Canaan Area and 
we had to stop our mapping party in Canaan. So in 2015 we proposed to 
fly over this area to ARC and others to maintain a link with this area. 
We asked to cover the cost of the drone and the team.


Our goal is to finalize our methodology, and cover the cost to run a 
drone unit in Haiti (it is quite costly) to help other community.


http://potentiel3-0.org/index.php/en/

As I am in Haiti, we can discuss about it ( 36 19 45 44)  but again we 
spent our own money, and received in 2014 the help of Cartong. We got a 
small contract with ARC just now in fact. It help us to pay a new camera 
and fix our drone


But our goal is still the same highlight some problem with accuracy and 
find local solution.


So I have tried to make a coordination with hot Tanzania project this 
year but I didn't success. At least I have tried


Right now, we are using drone to find the best warehouse for the 
operation in Jeremie, later for the damage assessment.  I am volunteer 
for the Haitian government for the moment.


All the best and thanks all for the work done for Haiti.  And help us to 
build local capacity, open mind,  it is the most important at the end.


FredM


wrote:


Great job Fred, glad that you've managed to get things going on your own.
When if you have the imagery available please feel free to let us know 
and we can make sure it's available on OpenAerialMap.


Stay safe and we wish you the best.



On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 8:34 PM, FredM > wrote:


Oups,

Didn't read all your message. I have seen my name but I don't have
time for that.

Could you stop to use it as I have no time to cross check what you
said. Fred can talk for Fred : )

Just came back from an assessment in Jeremie for the gouvernment.
We have huge work to do. So I am right now with the CNIGS and
civil protection. In the field we flew drone for planification (
Warehouse, fix the port, damage assessment, etc...)

Let me know if you have more UAV resource, For now we have 2 ebee
and 3 quadecopter. + Satellite imagery.

Drone imagery is useful, we are using it in our NGO to promote
technology and use it for local community. Not for the business or
the storytelling.

Only for operational purpose,... far away from the "Humanitarian
circus" or something else.

All the best FredM


On 09/10/2016 01:58, Dale Kunce wrote:

Hey everyone,
First thanks to everyone that has contributed to the base mapping
thus far. Many humanitarian groups including the Red Cross,
Canadian Military, and the UN. I would much rather be mapping
than responding to the copious emails but I wanted to try and end
the discussion so we can get back to mapping.

There has been a lot of chatter about UAV imagery the disaster
imagery charter on the list serve with many accusations flying
back and forth. I in my role as the activation lead for Hurricane
Matthew, Vice-President of HOT, and GIS Lead for the American Red
Cross see no value in trying to coordinate UAV use in Haiti. As
has been said by Blake and Cristiano both of whom know more about
this subject than I HOT should focus on the things we do best and
leave coordination of UAV use and operation to UVAviators.

Yes HOT in 2010 was different and HOT members took extraordinary
measures to update the map for humanitarians. Due largely to
those efforts and later ones in the Philippines, West Africa,
Nepal, and many others HOT has become a trusted source of map
data immediately following a disaster. Groups like the ones
mentioned above have deeply integrated into their work and trust
HOT and its amazing volunteers to provide the map data. One of
the reasons HOT is trusted is because of our consistency. We
provide a very reliable service without causing a lot of drama
for the large humanitarian organizations. Throughout my time
responding to disasters over the last few years consistency is
paramount during large scale disasters.

Comparing the airspace and subsequent use of UAVs in Tanzania,
during normal "blue skies" times to the crowded chaotic airspace
in Haiti shows a lack of basic understanding of the complexity of
modern humanitarian operations. If I were empowered, which I'm
not even close to being able to do, to simply put someone in a
car or on a helicopter and send them into the affected areas I
wouldn't. Given the reports from the area from UN, Red Cross, and
other NGOs I would send food, water, and shelter kits.

HOT has declined to support Fred's eff

Re: [HOT] [activation hotosm] Hurricane Matthew response : Imagery/UAV coordination and support to local Haitian UAV capacities

[FredM]

Ok we will talk later, we will focus now on Grand Anse /Jeremy for 
damage assessment.


This department was in the eye of the storm

And then other priority. All the best FredM

In Port Au Prince for a couple of day it will easier to cross OSM work.



On 09/10/2016 05:39, Dale Kunce wrote:

Great job Fred, glad that you've managed to get things going on your own.
When if you have the imagery available please feel free to let us know 
and we can make sure it's available on OpenAerialMap.


Stay safe and we wish you the best.



On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 8:34 PM, FredM > wrote:


Oups,

Didn't read all your message. I have seen my name but I don't have
time for that.

Could you stop to use it as I have no time to cross check what you
said. Fred can talk for Fred : )

Just came back from an assessment in Jeremie for the gouvernment.
We have huge work to do. So I am right now with the CNIGS and
civil protection. In the field we flew drone for planification (
Warehouse, fix the port, damage assessment, etc...)

Let me know if you have more UAV resource, For now we have 2 ebee
and 3 quadecopter. + Satellite imagery.

Drone imagery is useful, we are using it in our NGO to promote
technology and use it for local community. Not for the business or
the storytelling.

Only for operational purpose,... far away from the "Humanitarian
circus" or something else.

All the best FredM


On 09/10/2016 01:58, Dale Kunce wrote:

Hey everyone,
First thanks to everyone that has contributed to the base mapping
thus far. Many humanitarian groups including the Red Cross,
Canadian Military, and the UN. I would much rather be mapping
than responding to the copious emails but I wanted to try and end
the discussion so we can get back to mapping.

There has been a lot of chatter about UAV imagery the disaster
imagery charter on the list serve with many accusations flying
back and forth. I in my role as the activation lead for Hurricane
Matthew, Vice-President of HOT, and GIS Lead for the American Red
Cross see no value in trying to coordinate UAV use in Haiti. As
has been said by Blake and Cristiano both of whom know more about
this subject than I HOT should focus on the things we do best and
leave coordination of UAV use and operation to UVAviators.

Yes HOT in 2010 was different and HOT members took extraordinary
measures to update the map for humanitarians. Due largely to
those efforts and later ones in the Philippines, West Africa,
Nepal, and many others HOT has become a trusted source of map
data immediately following a disaster. Groups like the ones
mentioned above have deeply integrated into their work and trust
HOT and its amazing volunteers to provide the map data. One of
the reasons HOT is trusted is because of our consistency. We
provide a very reliable service without causing a lot of drama
for the large humanitarian organizations. Throughout my time
responding to disasters over the last few years consistency is
paramount during large scale disasters.

Comparing the airspace and subsequent use of UAVs in Tanzania,
during normal "blue skies" times to the crowded chaotic airspace
in Haiti shows a lack of basic understanding of the complexity of
modern humanitarian operations. If I were empowered, which I'm
not even close to being able to do, to simply put someone in a
car or on a helicopter and send them into the affected areas I
wouldn't. Given the reports from the area from UN, Red Cross, and
other NGOs I would send food, water, and shelter kits.

HOT has declined to support Fred's effort not because we don't
think he has the capability but rather because HOT should and
must be consistent in our work. In fact, Fred flies drones
professionally and is currently under contract to fly a drone
mission in Canaan for American Red Cross prior to Hurricane
Matthew, hence he was in Haiti during the storm. We must
understand our place during large scale international disasters,
we must know the limits of our work, and we must not put the
organization at risk without ample time to study and think about
those risks.

Lastly, as things have changed in disasters in the last few years
the need to activate the imagery disaster charter has largely
gone away. HOT has fantastic relationships with imagery providers
and governments. All are often happy to provide imagery when they
are capable of doing so.

If you would like to contribute to the current mapping in Haiti
please grab a task at http://tasks.hotosm.org


On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 3:00 PM, Cristiano Giovando
mailto:cristiano.giova...@hotosm.org>> wrote:

Nicolas,

As you well know HOT's strength is in pre-event baseline
mapping. We
have done some damage 

Re: [HOT] [activation hotosm] Hurricane Matthew response : Imagery/UAV coordination and support to local Haitian UAV capacities

[Dale Kunce]

Great job Fred, glad that you've managed to get things going on your own.
When if you have the imagery available please feel free to let us know and
we can make sure it's available on OpenAerialMap.

Stay safe and we wish you the best.



On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 8:34 PM, FredM  wrote:

> Oups,
>
> Didn't read all your message. I have seen my name but I don't have time
> for that.
>
> Could you stop to use it as I have no time to cross check what you said.
> Fred can talk for Fred : )
>
> Just came back from an assessment in Jeremie for the gouvernment. We have
> huge work to do. So I am right now with the CNIGS and civil protection. In
> the field we flew drone for planification ( Warehouse, fix the port, damage
> assessment, etc...)
>
> Let me know if you have more UAV resource, For now we have 2 ebee and 3
> quadecopter. + Satellite imagery.
>
> Drone imagery is useful, we are using it in our NGO to promote technology
> and use it for local community. Not for the business or the storytelling.
>
> Only for operational purpose,... far away from the "Humanitarian circus"
> or something else.
>
> All the best FredM
>
> On 09/10/2016 01:58, Dale Kunce wrote:
>
> Hey everyone,
> First thanks to everyone that has contributed to the base mapping thus
> far. Many humanitarian groups including the Red Cross, Canadian Military,
> and the UN. I would much rather be mapping than responding to the copious
> emails but I wanted to try and end the discussion so we can get back to
> mapping.
>
> There has been a lot of chatter about UAV imagery the disaster imagery
> charter on the list serve with many accusations flying back and forth. I in
> my role as the activation lead for Hurricane Matthew, Vice-President of
> HOT, and GIS Lead for the American Red Cross see no value in trying to
> coordinate UAV use in Haiti. As has been said by Blake and Cristiano both
> of whom know more about this subject than I HOT should focus on the things
> we do best and leave coordination of UAV use and operation to UVAviators.
>
> Yes HOT in 2010 was different and HOT members took extraordinary measures
> to update the map for humanitarians. Due largely to those efforts and later
> ones in the Philippines, West Africa, Nepal, and many others HOT has become
> a trusted source of map data immediately following a disaster. Groups like
> the ones mentioned above have deeply integrated into their work and trust
> HOT and its amazing volunteers to provide the map data. One of the reasons
> HOT is trusted is because of our consistency. We provide a very reliable
> service without causing a lot of drama for the large humanitarian
> organizations. Throughout my time responding to disasters over the last few
> years consistency is paramount during large scale disasters.
>
> Comparing the airspace and subsequent use of UAVs in Tanzania, during
> normal "blue skies" times to the crowded chaotic airspace in Haiti shows a
> lack of basic understanding of the complexity of modern humanitarian
> operations. If I were empowered, which I'm not even close to being able to
> do, to simply put someone in a car or on a helicopter and send them into
> the affected areas I wouldn't. Given the reports from the area from UN, Red
> Cross, and other NGOs I would send food, water, and shelter kits.
>
> HOT has declined to support Fred's effort not because we don't think he
> has the capability but rather because HOT should and must be consistent in
> our work. In fact, Fred flies drones professionally and is currently under
> contract to fly a drone mission in Canaan for American Red Cross prior to
> Hurricane Matthew, hence he was in Haiti during the storm. We must
> understand our place during large scale international disasters, we must
> know the limits of our work, and we must not put the organization at risk
> without ample time to study and think about those risks.
>
> Lastly, as things have changed in disasters in the last few years the need
> to activate the imagery disaster charter has largely gone away. HOT has
> fantastic relationships with imagery providers and governments. All are
> often happy to provide imagery when they are capable of doing so.
>
> If you would like to contribute to the current mapping in Haiti please
> grab a task at http://tasks.hotosm.org
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 3:00 PM, Cristiano Giovando <
> cristiano.giova...@hotosm.org> wrote:
>
>> Nicolas,
>>
>> As you well know HOT's strength is in pre-event baseline mapping. We
>> have done some damage assessment and post-disaster mapping in the
>> past, but it's not easy and with controversial results.
>>
>> That being said, I'm sure other responding organizations who request
>> HOT baseline mapping support may still find it useful to have high
>> resolution imagery of post event areas, although limited to the range
>> of a small UAV. I'm not in a position to speak for them.
>>
>> Again - and I'm asking you personally, please - please let's avoid
>> confrontation, insinuations, and br

Re: [HOT] [activation hotosm] Hurricane Matthew response : Imagery/UAV coordination and support to local Haitian UAV capacities

[FredM]

Oups,

Didn't read all your message. I have seen my name but I don't have time
for that.

Could you stop to use it as I have no time to cross check what you said.
Fred can talk for Fred : )

Just came back from an assessment in Jeremie for the gouvernment. We
have huge work to do. So I am right now with the CNIGS and civil
protection. In the field we flew drone for planification ( Warehouse,
fix the port, damage assessment, etc...)

Let me know if you have more UAV resource, For now we have 2 ebee and 3
quadecopter. + Satellite imagery.

Drone imagery is useful, we are using it in our NGO to promote
technology and use it for local community. Not for the business or the
storytelling.

Only for operational purpose,... far away from the "Humanitarian circus"
or something else.

All the best FredM


On 09/10/2016 01:58, Dale Kunce wrote:

Hey everyone,
First thanks to everyone that has contributed to the base mapping thus
far. Many humanitarian groups including the Red Cross, Canadian
Military, and the UN. I would much rather be mapping than responding
to the copious emails but I wanted to try and end the discussion so we
can get back to mapping.

There has been a lot of chatter about UAV imagery the disaster imagery
charter on the list serve with many accusations flying back and forth.
I in my role as the activation lead for Hurricane Matthew,
Vice-President of HOT, and GIS Lead for the American Red Cross see no
value in trying to coordinate UAV use in Haiti. As has been said by
Blake and Cristiano both of whom know more about this subject than I
HOT should focus on the things we do best and leave coordination of
UAV use and operation to UVAviators.

Yes HOT in 2010 was different and HOT members took extraordinary
measures to update the map for humanitarians. Due largely to those
efforts and later ones in the Philippines, West Africa, Nepal, and
many others HOT has become a trusted source of map data immediately
following a disaster. Groups like the ones mentioned above have deeply
integrated into their work and trust HOT and its amazing volunteers to
provide the map data. One of the reasons HOT is trusted is because of
our consistency. We provide a very reliable service without causing a
lot of drama for the large humanitarian organizations. Throughout my
time responding to disasters over the last few years consistency is
paramount during large scale disasters.

Comparing the airspace and subsequent use of UAVs in Tanzania, during
normal "blue skies" times to the crowded chaotic airspace in Haiti
shows a lack of basic understanding of the complexity of modern
humanitarian operations. If I were empowered, which I'm not even close
to being able to do, to simply put someone in a car or on a helicopter
and send them into the affected areas I wouldn't. Given the reports
from the area from UN, Red Cross, and other NGOs I would send food,
water, and shelter kits.

HOT has declined to support Fred's effort not because we don't think
he has the capability but rather because HOT should and must be
consistent in our work. In fact, Fred flies drones professionally and
is currently under contract to fly a drone mission in Canaan for
American Red Cross prior to Hurricane Matthew, hence he was in Haiti
during the storm. We must understand our place during large scale
international disasters, we must know the limits of our work, and we
must not put the organization at risk without ample time to study and
think about those risks.

Lastly, as things have changed in disasters in the last few years the
need to activate the imagery disaster charter has largely gone away.
HOT has fantastic relationships with imagery providers and
governments. All are often happy to provide imagery when they are
capable of doing so.

If you would like to contribute to the current mapping in Haiti please
grab a task at http://tasks.hotosm.org


On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 3:00 PM, Cristiano Giovando
mailto:cristiano.giova...@hotosm.org>>
wrote:

Nicolas,

As you well know HOT's strength is in pre-event baseline mapping. We
have done some damage assessment and post-disaster mapping in the
past, but it's not easy and with controversial results.

That being said, I'm sure other responding organizations who request
HOT baseline mapping support may still find it useful to have high
resolution imagery of post event areas, although limited to the range
of a small UAV. I'm not in a position to speak for them.

Again - and I'm asking you personally, please - please let's avoid
confrontation, insinuations, and bring up past arguments. It's
absolutely not the time. If you care about Haiti and HOT, please try
to engage with this community with a constructive, positive and humble
approach. Long emails take effort and thinking, which now would be
much better spent in actually doing (mapping?).

Cheers,

Cristiano


On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 11:55 AM, nicolas chavent
mailto:nicolas.chav...@gmail.com

Re: [HOT] [activation hotosm] Hurricane Matthew response : Imagery/UAV coordination and support to local Haitian UAV capacities

[Dale Kunce]

Hey everyone,
First thanks to everyone that has contributed to the base mapping thus far.
Many humanitarian groups including the Red Cross, Canadian Military, and
the UN. I would much rather be mapping than responding to the copious
emails but I wanted to try and end the discussion so we can get back to
mapping.

There has been a lot of chatter about UAV imagery the disaster imagery
charter on the list serve with many accusations flying back and forth. I in
my role as the activation lead for Hurricane Matthew, Vice-President of
HOT, and GIS Lead for the American Red Cross see no value in trying to
coordinate UAV use in Haiti. As has been said by Blake and Cristiano both
of whom know more about this subject than I HOT should focus on the things
we do best and leave coordination of UAV use and operation to UVAviators.

Yes HOT in 2010 was different and HOT members took extraordinary measures
to update the map for humanitarians. Due largely to those efforts and later
ones in the Philippines, West Africa, Nepal, and many others HOT has become
a trusted source of map data immediately following a disaster. Groups like
the ones mentioned above have deeply integrated into their work and trust
HOT and its amazing volunteers to provide the map data. One of the reasons
HOT is trusted is because of our consistency. We provide a very reliable
service without causing a lot of drama for the large humanitarian
organizations. Throughout my time responding to disasters over the last few
years consistency is paramount during large scale disasters.

Comparing the airspace and subsequent use of UAVs in Tanzania, during
normal "blue skies" times to the crowded chaotic airspace in Haiti shows a
lack of basic understanding of the complexity of modern humanitarian
operations. If I were empowered, which I'm not even close to being able to
do, to simply put someone in a car or on a helicopter and send them into
the affected areas I wouldn't. Given the reports from the area from UN, Red
Cross, and other NGOs I would send food, water, and shelter kits.

HOT has declined to support Fred's effort not because we don't think he has
the capability but rather because HOT should and must be consistent in our
work. In fact, Fred flies drones professionally and is currently under
contract to fly a drone mission in Canaan for American Red Cross prior to
Hurricane Matthew, hence he was in Haiti during the storm. We must
understand our place during large scale international disasters, we must
know the limits of our work, and we must not put the organization at risk
without ample time to study and think about those risks.

Lastly, as things have changed in disasters in the last few years the need
to activate the imagery disaster charter has largely gone away. HOT has
fantastic relationships with imagery providers and governments. All are
often happy to provide imagery when they are capable of doing so.

If you would like to contribute to the current mapping in Haiti please grab
a task at http://tasks.hotosm.org


On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 3:00 PM, Cristiano Giovando <
cristiano.giova...@hotosm.org> wrote:

> Nicolas,
>
> As you well know HOT's strength is in pre-event baseline mapping. We
> have done some damage assessment and post-disaster mapping in the
> past, but it's not easy and with controversial results.
>
> That being said, I'm sure other responding organizations who request
> HOT baseline mapping support may still find it useful to have high
> resolution imagery of post event areas, although limited to the range
> of a small UAV. I'm not in a position to speak for them.
>
> Again - and I'm asking you personally, please - please let's avoid
> confrontation, insinuations, and bring up past arguments. It's
> absolutely not the time. If you care about Haiti and HOT, please try
> to engage with this community with a constructive, positive and humble
> approach. Long emails take effort and thinking, which now would be
> much better spent in actually doing (mapping?).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cristiano
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 11:55 AM, nicolas chavent
>  wrote:
> > Hi Blake,
> >
> > Yes Fred and the Haitian dronists on the ground have skills and extensive
> > experience but little resources to keep up their work; this did not
> prevent
> > them from doing what they are good at. This can limit the span of their
> > action at a time where humanitarian actors need local capacities to
> generate
> > post disaster UAV imagery as well as satellite imagery to carry out post
> > disaster needs assessment. Support to their work can span from small
> > logistics support (rides in UNHAS, helis, plane and cars). This is quite
> > common to get such support in any sudden onset disaster responses when
> > GIS/UAV resources (leading to high impact for IM and decision making)
> > already undersized are rare, too rare.
> >
> > When HOT started its first field missions, we were exactly in the same
> > situation as Fred. Skilled individuals (less experimented though) wi

Re: [HOT] [activation hotosm] Hurricane Matthew response : Imagery/UAV coordination and support to local Haitian UAV capacities

[Cristiano Giovando]

Nicolas,

As you well know HOT's strength is in pre-event baseline mapping. We
have done some damage assessment and post-disaster mapping in the
past, but it's not easy and with controversial results.

That being said, I'm sure other responding organizations who request
HOT baseline mapping support may still find it useful to have high
resolution imagery of post event areas, although limited to the range
of a small UAV. I'm not in a position to speak for them.

Again - and I'm asking you personally, please - please let's avoid
confrontation, insinuations, and bring up past arguments. It's
absolutely not the time. If you care about Haiti and HOT, please try
to engage with this community with a constructive, positive and humble
approach. Long emails take effort and thinking, which now would be
much better spent in actually doing (mapping?).

Cheers,

Cristiano


On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 11:55 AM, nicolas chavent
 wrote:
> Hi Blake,
>
> Yes Fred and the Haitian dronists on the ground have skills and extensive
> experience but little resources to keep up their work; this did not prevent
> them from doing what they are good at. This can limit the span of their
> action at a time where humanitarian actors need local capacities to generate
> post disaster UAV imagery as well as satellite imagery to carry out post
> disaster needs assessment. Support to their work can span from small
> logistics support (rides in UNHAS, helis, plane and cars). This is quite
> common to get such support in any sudden onset disaster responses when
> GIS/UAV resources (leading to high impact for IM and decision making)
> already undersized are rare, too rare.
>
> When HOT started its first field missions, we were exactly in the same
> situation as Fred. Skilled individuals (less experimented though) with
> adequate equipment, but with little operational resources. We did good.
> Without the above mentioned forms of support, though our impact would have
> been limited and the course of action for OMS in Haiti and in other
> countries different.
>
> With the above in mind, it's weird to read that the president of HOT US Inc
> stating that the only HOT US Inc support for Fred and this collective of
> local Haitian dronists is only a well known list of UAV groups and a pointer
> to UN OCHA. That's of no help.
>
> UAV are used in Tanzania by HOT US Inc in Development and Disaster Risk
> Reduction (DRR) contexts [1]. Thanks to multi years of UAV activities in
> Haiti, this country is no longer a terra incognita when it comes to drones
> and there is no such thing as "UAV missions in disaster zones with
> notoriously complicated airspaces" but an area where it's possible to
> operate and make the difference we ought to the Haitians and to the Haitians
> mappers/dronists who acquired part of their skills via HOT US Inc and OSM
> folks.
>
> Do we have to understand that HOT US Inc will not help with simple
> facilitation work with partner relief organizations working in Haiti, some
> of those orgs (ARC, MSF etc) having representatives in the membership or the
> Board ?
>
> Given where HOT US Inc comes from and ironically in Haiti, this would mean a
> lot in terms of the losses of our operational/organizational ethos and would
> raise questions about the reality of support/empowerment schemes to local
> communities or possible conflict of interest between members/Board members
> of HOT US Inc and other organizations.
>
> Best,
> Nicolas
>
> [1] : https://hotosm.org/projects/tanzania
>
> On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Blake Girardot  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Nico,
>>
>> As you say, you and Fred have extensive experience in Hait and working
>> with international partners in Haiti. Fred is actually on the ground
>> in Haiti. You and he would be the best to coordinate him flying
>> missions.
>>
>> This is not something HOT does, we do not coordinate or push for UAV
>> missions in disaster zones with notoriously complicated airspaces. We
>> rely on, and UAV missions need to be handled, by professionals, which
>> you and Fred are, so I expect you should be able to handle making the
>> proper arrangements and coordinations.
>>
>> I already suggested who to contact, UAviators, they have coordinated
>> UAV missions in disaster zones in the past numerous times in
>> conjunction with UN-OCHA. That is HOT's contact, I passed it on to you
>> already.
>>
>> This is all HOT can do, except eagerly anticipate the imagery Fred's
>> missions generate.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Blake
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Activation Working Group" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to activation+unsubscr...@hotosm.org.
>> To post to this group, send email to activat...@hotosm.org.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/CABmB%2B%2BStS%3D8NJWqZH2fhnjMeGmq8cKMip9qkBhBWZucrhhh_Dg%40mail.gmail.com.
>
>
>
>
> --
> 

Re: [HOT] [activation hotosm] Hurricane Matthew response : Imagery/UAV coordination and support to local Haitian UAV capacities

[nicolas chavent]

Hi Blake,

Yes Fred and the Haitian dronists on the ground have skills and extensive
experience but little resources to keep up their work; this did not prevent
them from doing what they are good at. This can limit the span of their
action at a time where humanitarian actors need local capacities to
generate post disaster UAV imagery as well as satellite imagery to carry
out post disaster needs assessment. Support to their work can span from
small logistics support (rides in UNHAS, helis, plane and cars). This is
quite common to get such support in any sudden onset disaster responses
when GIS/UAV resources (leading to high impact for IM and decision making)
already undersized are rare, too rare.

When HOT started its first field missions, we were exactly in the same
situation as Fred. Skilled individuals (less experimented though) with
adequate equipment, but with little operational resources. We did good.
Without the above mentioned forms of support, though our impact would have
been limited and the course of action for OMS in Haiti and in other
countries different.

With the above in mind, it's weird to read that the president of HOT US Inc
stating that the only HOT US Inc support for Fred and this collective of
local Haitian dronists is only a well known list of UAV groups and a
pointer to UN OCHA. That's of no help.

UAV are used in Tanzania by HOT US Inc in Development and Disaster Risk
Reduction (DRR) contexts [1]. Thanks to multi years of UAV activities in
Haiti, this country is no longer a terra incognita when it comes to drones
and there is no such thing as "UAV missions in disaster zones with
notoriously complicated airspaces" but an area where it's possible to
operate and make the difference we ought to the Haitians and to the
Haitians mappers/dronists who acquired part of their skills via HOT US Inc
and OSM folks.

Do we have to understand that HOT US Inc will not help with simple
facilitation work with partner relief organizations working in Haiti, some
of those orgs (ARC, MSF etc) having representatives in the membership or
the Board ?

Given where HOT US Inc comes from and ironically in Haiti, this would mean
a lot in terms of the losses of our operational/organizational ethos and
would raise questions about the reality of support/empowerment schemes to
local communities or possible conflict of interest between members/Board
members of HOT US Inc and other organizations.

Best,
Nicolas

[1] : https://hotosm.org/projects/tanzania

On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Blake Girardot  wrote:

> Hi Nico,
>
> As you say, you and Fred have extensive experience in Hait and working
> with international partners in Haiti. Fred is actually on the ground
> in Haiti. You and he would be the best to coordinate him flying
> missions.
>
> This is not something HOT does, we do not coordinate or push for UAV
> missions in disaster zones with notoriously complicated airspaces. We
> rely on, and UAV missions need to be handled, by professionals, which
> you and Fred are, so I expect you should be able to handle making the
> proper arrangements and coordinations.
>
> I already suggested who to contact, UAviators, they have coordinated
> UAV missions in disaster zones in the past numerous times in
> conjunction with UN-OCHA. That is HOT's contact, I passed it on to you
> already.
>
> This is all HOT can do, except eagerly anticipate the imagery Fred's
> missions generate.
>
> Regards,
> Blake
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Activation Working Group" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to activation+unsubscr...@hotosm.org.
> To post to this group, send email to activat...@hotosm.org.
> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/a/
> hotosm.org/d/msgid/activation/CABmB%2B%2BStS%
> 3D8NJWqZH2fhnjMeGmq8cKMip9qkBhBWZucrhhh_Dg%40mail.gmail.com.
>



-- 
Nicolas Chavent
Projet OpenStreetMap (OSM)
Projet Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)
Projet Espace OSM Francophone (EOF)
Mobile (FRA): +33 (0)6 52 40 78 20
Mobile (CIV): +225 78 12 76 99

Email: nicolas.chav...@gmail.com
Skype: c_nicolas
Twitter: nicolas_chavent
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] [activation hotosm] Hurricane Matthew response : Imagery/UAV coordination and support to local Haitian UAV capacities

[Blake Girardot]

Hi Nico,

As you say, you and Fred have extensive experience in Hait and working
with international partners in Haiti. Fred is actually on the ground
in Haiti. You and he would be the best to coordinate him flying
missions.

This is not something HOT does, we do not coordinate or push for UAV
missions in disaster zones with notoriously complicated airspaces. We
rely on, and UAV missions need to be handled, by professionals, which
you and Fred are, so I expect you should be able to handle making the
proper arrangements and coordinations.

I already suggested who to contact, UAviators, they have coordinated
UAV missions in disaster zones in the past numerous times in
conjunction with UN-OCHA. That is HOT's contact, I passed it on to you
already.

This is all HOT can do, except eagerly anticipate the imagery Fred's
missions generate.

Regards,
Blake

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] [activation hotosm] Hurricane Matthew response : Imagery/UAV coordination and support to local Haitian UAV capacities

[nicolas chavent]

Ciao Cristiano, grazie x il email !

It's still time for us to help Fred and the Haitian UAV collective to do in
2016 for Cyclone Matthew what had been done for Hurricane Sandy in 2012 and
in Disaster Risk Reduction schemes for large organizations.

But it's a question of hours/days at this particular time of a crisis
response, so waiting for a lessons learned exercice is not the right path
for us if we do care for useful pixels for OSM and solid opendata for the
actors of the humanitarian system. Of course we will do a Lesson Learned
exercise and these emails can help as bits of archive to help us doing this
in a nice way beneficial for HOT US Inc, HOT, OSM and Humanitarian /
Development actors of this domain.

Now it's time to act swiftly the way HOT US Inc and OSM usually do. Let's
really help Fred and local Haitian UAV flyers and dronists first moving
into Haiti, getting one individual (with such impact) in a helico is not a
hard task for HOT US Inc partners or any OSM supporter relief organization.

UNHAS (among others) with the support of requesting entities like big Haiti
players (WFP ARC IOM UNICEF OCHA/UNDAC..) do this on regular basis at the
onset of emergencies.

It shall not be to difficult for Dale Kunce, HOT US Inc Vice president and
Head of American Red Cross (ARC) GIS unit involved in multi years support
program to Haitian Red Cross (HRC) in Haiti to help out directly or
indirectly.

Shall this be hard for ARC to respond, it shall not be hard for HOT US Inc
coordinators or Board of directors to liase with our partners on the ground
and make the case for local Haiti UAV-collection imagery actions given the
quality of the local UAV team on site.

These are easy actions that can be done that can furnish Haitian and global
OSM members with useful pixels at the end of the day.

On the CHARTER piece, pls trust that Fred, Pierre, Sev and I do very well
know the processes and issues at play. Fred did successfully activate the
Charter for Hurricane Sandy in 2012 on the behalf of the Haitian
government.

Fred could have done the same for Cyclone Matthew and notified it to the
Activation group in a timely fashion, this opportunity has not been seized.

Best,
Nicolas


On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Cristiano Giovando <
cristiano.giova...@hotosm.org> wrote:

> Thanks for the comments, Nicolas. If you don't mind, let's try to stay
> focused and not digress into polemical arguments, at least during an
> active response. Happy to sit down later with you, Fred and others to
> discuss how we can better coordinate in general around imagery.
>
> Not sure you understood my point about UAVs, but the recommendation to
> coordinate with responding organizations (and gov, and CAA?) was
> purely for safety, regulatory issues, and immediate field needs. I
> fully agree with you that UAV imagery is no different than
> satellite's, they're all useful pixels at the end of the day :)
>
> Looking forward to Fred's and the Haitian community imagery. Happy to
> help any way we can... processing, hosting, sharing, mapping, let me
> know!
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 9:30 PM, nicolas chavent
>  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi there,
> >
> > Thanks Blake and Cristiano,
> >
> > We do monitor imagery releases and understand imagery management in
> humanitarian response, Fred and I have been in this field for quite some
> time...
> >
> > When Fred wrote its email to the activation group dated 2-October 2016,
> the timing was good for a charter activation possible via Fred excellent
> relations with the Haitian government built over years right after the 2010
> Quake with IOM. HOT US Inc Activation group decided not to seize that
> opportunity to be more proactive and handle as upfront as possible the
> imagery requests and the coverage of AOIs for openstreetmap to be put in
> the best position unleash its mapping power.
> >
> > The same passivity seems to have gone with UAV imagery collection and
> Fred + Potentiel3.0 offer to help has not been considered.
> >
> > Considering that this is the first time in the HOT US Inc history that a
> member of the organization experienced/equipped/ready is positioned in a
> country about to be hit by a disaster
> > Knowing how vital timely provision of hight resolution imagery for post
> disaster needs assessments and mapping in OSM is,
> > it's puzzling to consider that nothing has been done to harness such a
> promising situation.
> > It seems that nothing has been communicated nor no linkages made with
> other groups active on this front.
> >
> > Policy-wise and procedure wise your point about UAV coordination is
> debatable:
> > coordination for imagery provision via relations with imagery providers
> and domain actors is at the heart of any OSM crisis response, why would UAV
> imagery be treated differently ?
> > At a time where the tech makes it almost as easy to fly a drone &
> collect imagery than collecting traces and waypoints with GPS. We are not
> going to give away our GPS, fieldppers, m

Re: [HOT] [activation hotosm] Hurricane Matthew response : Imagery/UAV coordination and support to local Haitian UAV capacities

[Cristiano Giovando]

Thanks for the comments, Nicolas. If you don't mind, let's try to stay
focused and not digress into polemical arguments, at least during an
active response. Happy to sit down later with you, Fred and others to
discuss how we can better coordinate in general around imagery.

Not sure you understood my point about UAVs, but the recommendation to
coordinate with responding organizations (and gov, and CAA?) was
purely for safety, regulatory issues, and immediate field needs. I
fully agree with you that UAV imagery is no different than
satellite's, they're all useful pixels at the end of the day :)

Looking forward to Fred's and the Haitian community imagery. Happy to
help any way we can... processing, hosting, sharing, mapping, let me
know!


On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 9:30 PM, nicolas chavent
 wrote:
>
>
> Hi there,
>
> Thanks Blake and Cristiano,
>
> We do monitor imagery releases and understand imagery management in 
> humanitarian response, Fred and I have been in this field for quite some 
> time...
>
> When Fred wrote its email to the activation group dated 2-October 2016, the 
> timing was good for a charter activation possible via Fred excellent 
> relations with the Haitian government built over years right after the 2010 
> Quake with IOM. HOT US Inc Activation group decided not to seize that 
> opportunity to be more proactive and handle as upfront as possible the 
> imagery requests and the coverage of AOIs for openstreetmap to be put in the 
> best position unleash its mapping power.
>
> The same passivity seems to have gone with UAV imagery collection and Fred + 
> Potentiel3.0 offer to help has not been considered.
>
> Considering that this is the first time in the HOT US Inc history that a 
> member of the organization experienced/equipped/ready is positioned in a 
> country about to be hit by a disaster
> Knowing how vital timely provision of hight resolution imagery for post 
> disaster needs assessments and mapping in OSM is,
> it's puzzling to consider that nothing has been done to harness such a 
> promising situation.
> It seems that nothing has been communicated nor no linkages made with other 
> groups active on this front.
>
> Policy-wise and procedure wise your point about UAV coordination is debatable:
> coordination for imagery provision via relations with imagery providers and 
> domain actors is at the heart of any OSM crisis response, why would UAV 
> imagery be treated differently ?
> At a time where the tech makes it almost as easy to fly a drone & collect 
> imagery than collecting traces and waypoints with GPS. We are not going to 
> give away our GPS, fieldppers, mobile apps, are not we? Why would we do this 
> for UAV ?
>
> Historically OSM in crisis response came as an innovation which succeeded and 
> to succeed it had to be agile and sometimes disruptive, this how the HOT 
> Project reached a milestone in the Haiti 2010 Quake response and "changed the 
> course of humanitarian action for ever" (to quote JohnCrowley).
>
> What happened to the 2010 ethos, agility, pragmatism that lead to the 
> incorporation of HOT US Inc in Aug 2010 and the progresses registered so far? 
> How can HOT US Inc come to this situation ie not using the skills of one of 
> its members to boost the OSM/GIS crisis response by (i) helping to task 
> satellites and (2) fly drones BEFORE any other UAV groups can deploy to the 
> island ?
>
> It's time to fix this and make sure HOT US Inc acts so that Fred and local 
> Haitian dronists who grew up in the aftermath of the 2010 Quake and 
> incorporate as a Haitiano-swiss association can do well for CycloneMatthew 
> response what they had been doing well since 2012 Hurricane Sandy. It shall 
> not be hard to provide connection and support with partners having logistics 
> in Haiti and working with OSM like IOM, WFP, ARC to name a few to assist 
> moving one or two persons with a drone over the island...
>
> This means timely collected/processed/produced/released UAV imagery and 
> OSM/GIS opendata
> This also means consideration for local persons who built their capacities 
> with the support of dedicated, skilled persons
> This also means consideration for those who layed the ground for OSM, the HOT 
> project and HOT US Inc in Haiti.
> This also means not treating Cyclone Matthew crisis in Haiti like a country 
> with no local OSM/UAV/opendata capacities.
>
> Let's work this out and use Haitian home brewed UAV imagery among other UAV 
> imageries hopefully produced in a coordinated manner
>
> Best,
> Nicolas
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Cristiano Giovando 
>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Nicolas,
>>
>> Yes Fred's experience and presence in the field would be invaluable for 
>> collecting data. As Blake mentioned HOT does not really engage in UAV 
>> mapping during active disaster situations, so it would probably be best to 
>> coordinate with other field responders to understand their immediate needs. 
>> In either case, would be great if orthomosaics eventua