Re: [HOT] residential roads within built-up areas

[Vao Matua]

At State of the Map Africa conference earlier this month we had several
discussions about road tagging.

The Africa Highway Tagging Guide
 has been updated to
reflect those discussions.

Personally I have found that thinking of the tagging hierarchy "upside
down" makes more sense than starting with the "important" roads then
proceeding down to roads of "lesser importance".
Numbers-wise there are more paths and residential roads than any other.
The most important transportation route for an individual is the one that
leads from their home to the village or town.  It could be a path or
residential road which would lead to highway=unclassified or
highway=tertiary.

One question that is useful to ask about the function of the road is "does
it provide a *collector *function?", does the road get used to help people
from various nearby locations get to a single place such as a hamlet,
village, or town? if the route provides access between settlements then the
road is highway=unclassified or highway=tertiary +.

One of the things that is confusing about the OSM tagging is that it is a
mix of function and construction. A motorway and primary highway may have
the same function, but different construction class. In the same way a path
may be a significant transportation route for a village or small town but
it cannot be highway=unclassified or highway=tertiary because of the
construction class that limits vehicles.

One of the things that was confusing for me when I started tagging OSM
roads was the highway=track tag.  A track as defined in OSM is not a
construction class lower than unclassified or residential.  It is a
drive-able route used to access agriculture or forestry areas without a
connection function between settlements. A track can also be found in a
park or game preserve, but should not be used for a road with a through
connection.

My opinion on highway=service is the same as Blake's, a road inside a
restricted access location (gated community or industrial facility)
wouldn't have the same function as a road with similar construction but
with public access.

Regards,

Emmor
(Palolo)

On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 6:30 AM, Blake Girardot  wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 2:39 PM, Bjoern Hassler 
> wrote:
>
> > I agree with your definition. Would you agree that it implies that
> > 'residential' is used relatively sparsely, i.e. where a road leads to a
> > group of houses, or where a road is located inside a "gated" are, like an
> > institution, university, school or residential community?
>
> If the road is for access to housing and not much else (i.e.,
> connecting settlements or major roads inside of settlements) I use
> residential.
>
> Roads in institutions or large commercial facilities I would probably
> map as highway=service, but I am not sure that is a typical usage of
> it, but to me they seem like basically private driveways, just really
> long and complicated driveways. I would feel strange mapping them as
> residential.
>
> Cheers
> Blake
>
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Re: [HOT] residential roads within built-up areas

[Joseph Reeves]

I agree with your definition. Would you agree that it implies that
'residential' is used relatively sparsely, i.e. where a road leads to a
group of houses, or where a road is located inside a "gated" are, like an
institution, university, school or residential community?


I wouldn't (although I know nobody asked me).

What is the primary function of the roads you highlighted? Is it to access
the houses that exist there, or is it to travel to other parts of the city?
In many parts of the world, I'd argue, the primary function is to access
the houses, although the secondary function could easily be as a member of
the larger road network. Would that road exist if the houses weren't there?

As others have said, the best way to find out is on the ground.

But... I'd say that 2 general rules should apply: If unsure, don't change
it; try to keep the data as simple as possible.

There are currently 37.2 million residential ways in OSM. So not sparse and
most likely a consensus exists already as to the meaning of residential.

Cheers, Joseph



On 26 July 2017 at 13:39, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:

> Hi Blake,
>
> Thanks!
>
> Generally roads that are part of the larger road network
>> infrastructure and serve as connections between settlements but also
>> pass through those settlements are not down tagged to "residential"
>> roads when they pass through settlements.
>>
> ...
>
>>
>> Residential roads are roads whose primary function is access to
>> housing. If the primary function of the road is to connect settlements
>> and it just happens to pass through some residential area I generally
>> leave it as the larger road classification.
>
>
> In cities, it's just a little hard to define boundaries of settlement.
>
> I agree with your definition. Would you agree that it implies that
> 'residential' is used relatively sparsely, i.e. where a road leads to a
> group of houses, or where a road is located inside a "gated" are, like an
> institution, university, school or residential community?
>
>
>> If you are local to Lusaka, you should connect up with Trudy Hope who
>> is also in Lusaka.
>>
>
> Yes :) We are in touch and met recently.
>
> Bjoern
>
>
>> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 1:20 PM, Bjoern Hassler 
>> wrote:
>> > Dear friends,
>> >
>> > The roads near here (to the west) are all "residential":
>> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/94058793
>> >
>> > What's the view on residential roads within built-up areas? My view
>> would be
>> > that the roads are all "through-roads" and therefore should be
>> > "Unclassified" rather than residential.
>> >
>> > What do you think?
>> > Bjoern
>> >
>> > ___
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>> > HOT@openstreetmap.org
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 
>> Blake Girardot
>> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
>> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
>> skype: jblakegirardot
>> Live OSM Mapper-Support channel - https://hotosm-slack.herokuapp.com/
>>
>
>
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Re: [HOT] residential roads within built-up areas

[Bjoern Hassler]

Hi Blake,

Thanks!

Generally roads that are part of the larger road network
> infrastructure and serve as connections between settlements but also
> pass through those settlements are not down tagged to "residential"
> roads when they pass through settlements.
>
...

>
> Residential roads are roads whose primary function is access to
> housing. If the primary function of the road is to connect settlements
> and it just happens to pass through some residential area I generally
> leave it as the larger road classification.


In cities, it's just a little hard to define boundaries of settlement.

I agree with your definition. Would you agree that it implies that
'residential' is used relatively sparsely, i.e. where a road leads to a
group of houses, or where a road is located inside a "gated" are, like an
institution, university, school or residential community?


> If you are local to Lusaka, you should connect up with Trudy Hope who
> is also in Lusaka.
>

Yes :) We are in touch and met recently.

Bjoern


> On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 1:20 PM, Bjoern Hassler 
> wrote:
> > Dear friends,
> >
> > The roads near here (to the west) are all "residential":
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/94058793
> >
> > What's the view on residential roads within built-up areas? My view
> would be
> > that the roads are all "through-roads" and therefore should be
> > "Unclassified" rather than residential.
> >
> > What do you think?
> > Bjoern
> >
> > ___
> > HOT mailing list
> > HOT@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
> >
>
>
>
> --
> 
> Blake Girardot
> OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
> HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
> skype: jblakegirardot
> Live OSM Mapper-Support channel - https://hotosm-slack.herokuapp.com/
>
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Re: [HOT] residential roads within built-up areas

[Blake Girardot]

Hi Bjoern,

Generally roads that are part of the larger road network
infrastructure and serve as connections between settlements but also
pass through those settlements are not down tagged to "residential"
roads when they pass through settlements.

In looking over the wiki, I swear it used to say that secondary,
tertiary and unclassifed tags were typically used in settlements for
major roads, but I do not see that text anymore.

Residential roads are roads whose primary function is access to
housing. If the primary function of the road is to connect settlements
and it just happens to pass through some residential area I generally
leave it as the larger road classification. If the speed limit or
other restrictions are placed on it when it passes through
settlements, those can be added later as part of the local mapping and
iterative refinement process.

If you are local to Lusaka, you should connect up with Trudy Hope who
is also in Lusaka.

Cheers
Blake

On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 1:20 PM, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:
> Dear friends,
>
> The roads near here (to the west) are all "residential":
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/94058793
>
> What's the view on residential roads within built-up areas? My view would be
> that the roads are all "through-roads" and therefore should be
> "Unclassified" rather than residential.
>
> What do you think?
> Bjoern
>
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>



-- 

Blake Girardot
OSM Wiki - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot
HOTOSM Member - https://hotosm.org/users/blake_girardot
skype: jblakegirardot
Live OSM Mapper-Support channel - https://hotosm-slack.herokuapp.com/

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Re: [HOT] residential roads within built-up areas

[john whelan]

I'll have to find the name of the coffee shop they hang out at then you can
go and visit them and have a discussion.

Cheerio John

On 26 July 2017 at 07:33, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> thanks. What if I'm asking as a local mapper from the area?
>
> :)
>
> Bjoern
>
> On 26 July 2017 at 13:31, john whelan  wrote:
>
>> Lusaka is one of the few places in Africa that has boots on the ground,
>> many of which have backgrounds in GIS. I think there have been at least
>> twenty active local mappers mapping here so I'd be inclined to leave the
>> tagging up to the locals.
>>
>> Cheerio John
>>
>> On 26 July 2017 at 07:20, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:
>>
>>> Dear friends,
>>>
>>> The roads near here (to the west) are all "residential": https://www.ope
>>> nstreetmap.org/way/94058793
>>>
>>> What's the view on residential roads within built-up areas? My view
>>> would be that the roads are all "through-roads" and therefore should be
>>> "Unclassified" rather than residential.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>> Bjoern
>>>
>>> ___
>>> HOT mailing list
>>> HOT@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [HOT] residential roads within built-up areas

[Bjoern Hassler]

Hi John,

thanks. What if I'm asking as a local mapper from the area?

:)

Bjoern

On 26 July 2017 at 13:31, john whelan  wrote:

> Lusaka is one of the few places in Africa that has boots on the ground,
> many of which have backgrounds in GIS. I think there have been at least
> twenty active local mappers mapping here so I'd be inclined to leave the
> tagging up to the locals.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On 26 July 2017 at 07:20, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:
>
>> Dear friends,
>>
>> The roads near here (to the west) are all "residential": https://www.ope
>> nstreetmap.org/way/94058793
>>
>> What's the view on residential roads within built-up areas? My view would
>> be that the roads are all "through-roads" and therefore should be
>> "Unclassified" rather than residential.
>>
>> What do you think?
>> Bjoern
>>
>> ___
>> HOT mailing list
>> HOT@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>>
>>
>
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Re: [HOT] residential roads within built-up areas

[john whelan]

Lusaka is one of the few places in Africa that has boots on the ground,
many of which have backgrounds in GIS. I think there have been at least
twenty active local mappers mapping here so I'd be inclined to leave the
tagging up to the locals.

Cheerio John

On 26 July 2017 at 07:20, Bjoern Hassler  wrote:

> Dear friends,
>
> The roads near here (to the west) are all "residential": https://www.
> openstreetmap.org/way/94058793
>
> What's the view on residential roads within built-up areas? My view would
> be that the roads are all "through-roads" and therefore should be
> "Unclassified" rather than residential.
>
> What do you think?
> Bjoern
>
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
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[HOT] residential roads within built-up areas

[Bjoern Hassler]

Dear friends,

The roads near here (to the west) are all "residential":
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/94058793

What's the view on residential roads within built-up areas? My view would
be that the roads are all "through-roads" and therefore should be
"Unclassified" rather than residential.

What do you think?
Bjoern
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