Re: [HOT] sporadic validation report

[Nate Smith]

Thanks Mikel, agreed.

We had a HOT management meeting in DC last week and this was a topic of
conversation. We discussed the steps we can take to help support a vibrant
developer community. We started outlining some of this a few weeks ago:
https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2017-11-22_hot_tech_in_2018.

To share with everyone more about what this is starting to look like — we
will be looking to add to that with better defined roadmaps of the tools or
updates that are needed; better use of the tech working group to
participate in those roadmap discussions; and create more clear ways to not
just to say something could be better but help participate in a software
development process - which isn’t just about writing code. This will be for
both HOT-lead tools like the Tasking Manager but also for other tools that
HOT uses within the OSM ecosystem.

We’ve started this with adjusting how we’re running our Tech Working Group
meetings. We’ve added an Asia working group meeting to meet earlier in the
day. We’re planning to outline what will be discussed ahead of time so you
can know when and how you can participate.

This takes a lot of work and is a community effort; come be a part of this
process! Join the Tech Working Group,
https://groups.google.com/a/hotosm.org/forum/#!forum/techwg, or
just contact me directly.

Nate


Nate Smith
@nas_smith <https://twitter.com/nas_smith>

On December 13, 2017 at 1:20:25 PM, Mikel Maron (mikel.ma...@gmail.com)
wrote:

Let's stop apologizing to Bryan and figure out how HOT can practically do
better to support a vibrant developer community. It's not about more
mailing list discussion, but clarity and leadership and how to be
productive.

* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron


On Wednesday, December 13, 2017, 2:06:23 PM EST, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM <
blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:


Hi Bryan,

I just want to echo what Russ said, and let you know how much I and
everyone at HOT appreciates how much you have done for the
OpenStreetMap community. The iD editor and your work specifically, has
made the OpenStreetMap project and open geospatial data creation
accessible to 10's of thousands of people around the world. It is a
tool that people can use to improve their lives and their communities
and it helped OSM become the critically important project that it is
today.

I also know how much you have personally done for HOT above and beyond
your regular iD editor wizardry.

I sincerely apologize we as an organization did not do a better job
make sure you knew how much we appreciated you and your contribution
to OSM.

Respectfully,
blake

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 7:11 PM, Russell Deffner
<russell.deff...@hotosm.org> wrote:
> Bryan,
>
>
>
> I hope you know that HOT appreciates all you do; personally I don’t
disagree
> with leaving communication channels that are more frustration than
anything
> else.  My point being, that message was against the Code of Conduct for
all
> community members participating in HOT related tools and platforms,
> including this public list.  However, retaliating against HOT the
> organization because of one ‘random’ person’s email, I don’t agree with.
> Everyone should consider that they are communicating with other human
beings
> and when IRL does that kind of communication work to get the results
you’re
> after?
>
>
>
> If there is anything I can do to moderate and send people to the correct
> means to ‘air their grievance’ you are welcome to contact me directly,
>
> =Russ
>
>
>
> Russell Deffner
>
> Voting Member+
>
> Email: russell.deff...@hotosm.org
>
> OSM/Skype: russdeffner
>
> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)
>
> Web | Wiki | Blog | Contact | Donate – Please Help Us #MapTheDifference
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Bryan Housel [mailto:br...@7thposition.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 10:57 AM
> To: Russell Deffner
> Cc: Ralf Stephan; osm-hot
> Subject: Re: [HOT] sporadic validation report
>
>
>
> Russ I *am* on this mailing list.  But good news for all of you - I’m
> unsubscribing.
>
> I don’t prioritize features for people or organizations who hate me.
>
>
>
> Thanks though,
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2017, at 12:51 PM, Russell Deffner <russell.deff...@hotosm.org>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Ralf,
>
>
>
> I hope it doesn’t need much explaining, but that message doesn’t belong on
> the HOT mailing list for 2 reasons.  1) The iD developers are not
> necessarily on the HOT mailing list (this list is for discussing things
> related to the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT) https://hotosm.org).
> 2) The message is in conflict with our Code of Conduct
> https://www.hotosm.org/hot_code_of_conduct#fullversion
>
>
>
> It would be unfortunate if we need to so quic

Re: [HOT] sporadic validation report

[Mikel Maron]

Let's stop apologizing to Bryan and figure out how HOT can practically do 
better to support a vibrant developer community. It's not about more mailing 
list discussion, but clarity and leadership and how to be productive.
* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Wednesday, December 13, 2017, 2:06:23 PM EST, Blake Girardot HOT/OSM 
<blake.girar...@hotosm.org> wrote:  
 
 Hi Bryan,

I just want to echo what Russ said, and let you know how much I and
everyone at HOT appreciates how much you have done for the
OpenStreetMap community. The iD editor and your work specifically, has
made the OpenStreetMap project and open geospatial data creation
accessible to 10's of thousands of people around the world. It is a
tool that people can use to improve their lives and their communities
and it helped OSM become the critically important project that it is
today.

I also know how much you have personally done for HOT above and beyond
your regular iD editor wizardry.

I sincerely apologize we as an organization did not do a better job
make sure you knew how much we appreciated you and your contribution
to OSM.

Respectfully,
blake

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 7:11 PM, Russell Deffner
<russell.deff...@hotosm.org> wrote:
> Bryan,
>
>
>
> I hope you know that HOT appreciates all you do; personally I don’t disagree
> with leaving communication channels that are more frustration than anything
> else.  My point being, that message was against the Code of Conduct for all
> community members participating in HOT related tools and platforms,
> including this public list.  However, retaliating against HOT the
> organization because of one ‘random’ person’s email, I don’t agree with.
> Everyone should consider that they are communicating with other human beings
> and when IRL does that kind of communication work to get the results you’re
> after?
>
>
>
> If there is anything I can do to moderate and send people to the correct
> means to ‘air their grievance’ you are welcome to contact me directly,
>
> =Russ
>
>
>
> Russell Deffner
>
> Voting Member+
>
> Email: russell.deff...@hotosm.org
>
> OSM/Skype: russdeffner
>
> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)
>
> Web | Wiki | Blog | Contact | Donate – Please Help Us #MapTheDifference
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Bryan Housel [mailto:br...@7thposition.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 10:57 AM
> To: Russell Deffner
> Cc: Ralf Stephan; osm-hot
> Subject: Re: [HOT] sporadic validation report
>
>
>
> Russ I *am* on this mailing list.  But good news for all of you - I’m
> unsubscribing.
>
> I don’t prioritize features for people or organizations who hate me.
>
>
>
> Thanks though,
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2017, at 12:51 PM, Russell Deffner <russell.deff...@hotosm.org>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Ralf,
>
>
>
> I hope it doesn’t need much explaining, but that message doesn’t belong on
> the HOT mailing list for 2 reasons.  1) The iD developers are not
> necessarily on the HOT mailing list (this list is for discussing things
> related to the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT) https://hotosm.org).
> 2) The message is in conflict with our Code of Conduct
> https://www.hotosm.org/hot_code_of_conduct#fullversion
>
>
>
> It would be unfortunate if we need to so quickly put the new community CoC
> into practice, but this message would be a good example for when to put our
> foot down.
>
>
>
> Please take a break and think before corresponding with us,
>
> =Russ
>
>
>
> Russell Deffner
>
> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)
>
> Web | Wiki | Blog | Contact | Donate – Please help us #mapthedifference!
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Ralf Stephan [mailto:gtrw...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 9:45 AM
> To: hot@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [HOT] sporadic validation report
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> just now 5 out of 5 people that registered within the last 24 hours and
> worked on task #3939 did not square their buildings. I hate you, iD devs.
>
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
>
>
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>



-- 

Blake Girardot
Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
  ___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] sporadic validation report

[Blake Girardot HOT/OSM]

Hi Bryan,

I just want to echo what Russ said, and let you know how much I and
everyone at HOT appreciates how much you have done for the
OpenStreetMap community. The iD editor and your work specifically, has
made the OpenStreetMap project and open geospatial data creation
accessible to 10's of thousands of people around the world. It is a
tool that people can use to improve their lives and their communities
and it helped OSM become the critically important project that it is
today.

I also know how much you have personally done for HOT above and beyond
your regular iD editor wizardry.

I sincerely apologize we as an organization did not do a better job
make sure you knew how much we appreciated you and your contribution
to OSM.

Respectfully,
blake

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 7:11 PM, Russell Deffner
<russell.deff...@hotosm.org> wrote:
> Bryan,
>
>
>
> I hope you know that HOT appreciates all you do; personally I don’t disagree
> with leaving communication channels that are more frustration than anything
> else.  My point being, that message was against the Code of Conduct for all
> community members participating in HOT related tools and platforms,
> including this public list.  However, retaliating against HOT the
> organization because of one ‘random’ person’s email, I don’t agree with.
> Everyone should consider that they are communicating with other human beings
> and when IRL does that kind of communication work to get the results you’re
> after?
>
>
>
> If there is anything I can do to moderate and send people to the correct
> means to ‘air their grievance’ you are welcome to contact me directly,
>
> =Russ
>
>
>
> Russell Deffner
>
> Voting Member+
>
> Email: russell.deff...@hotosm.org
>
> OSM/Skype: russdeffner
>
> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)
>
> Web | Wiki | Blog | Contact | Donate – Please Help Us #MapTheDifference
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Bryan Housel [mailto:br...@7thposition.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 10:57 AM
> To: Russell Deffner
> Cc: Ralf Stephan; osm-hot
> Subject: Re: [HOT] sporadic validation report
>
>
>
> Russ I *am* on this mailing list.  But good news for all of you - I’m
> unsubscribing.
>
> I don’t prioritize features for people or organizations who hate me.
>
>
>
> Thanks though,
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2017, at 12:51 PM, Russell Deffner <russell.deff...@hotosm.org>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Ralf,
>
>
>
> I hope it doesn’t need much explaining, but that message doesn’t belong on
> the HOT mailing list for 2 reasons.  1) The iD developers are not
> necessarily on the HOT mailing list (this list is for discussing things
> related to the Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT) https://hotosm.org).
> 2) The message is in conflict with our Code of Conduct
> https://www.hotosm.org/hot_code_of_conduct#fullversion
>
>
>
> It would be unfortunate if we need to so quickly put the new community CoC
> into practice, but this message would be a good example for when to put our
> foot down.
>
>
>
> Please take a break and think before corresponding with us,
>
> =Russ
>
>
>
> Russell Deffner
>
> Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)
>
> Web | Wiki | Blog | Contact | Donate – Please help us #mapthedifference!
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Ralf Stephan [mailto:gtrw...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 9:45 AM
> To: hot@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [HOT] sporadic validation report
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> just now 5 out of 5 people that registered within the last 24 hours and
> worked on task #3939 did not square their buildings. I hate you, iD devs.
>
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
>
>
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>



-- 

Blake Girardot
Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] sporadic validation report

[Philippe Verdy]

Really insulting I think. There's nothing wrong in iD, it properly offers
the way to rectangularize the features that are dr'awn, but even if they
are buildings, there will NEVER be any rule that says that buildings MUST
be square (or even circular).

HOT projects provide basic instructions on how to do this in JOSM or iD,
but no editor will ever do that automatically.

Softwares (or their developers) are not responsible if people don't want to
read the instructions or train themselves. OSM will remain open to any one,
and the best we can do, for newcomers, is to welcome them and explain why
what they did was not the best. Still their constributions are valuable:
drawing a single building is still useful, if it is properly poistioned:
squaring is just a detail with minor effect on the precision of maps (even
the post reputable official lansurvey maps contain some errors, including
incorrect orientation of buildings or some inaccuracy about the total
surface really occupied).

For HOT it's important first to locate where people live. And then remember
that OSM is incremental, that the aerial imagery itself will frequently be
offseted or approximately orthorectified (due to poor prevision of data on
altitudes or weak precision of the grid reference survey grid).

Every one does its best, and has to manage his own priorities for what they
feel is really important to them. You just want higher goals for your own
preferences, but we can still build a map that will be useful and very
valuable even if buildings are not as precise as what you'd like to see.
Even if they "square" the buildings, this may be even wrong and sometimes
worse than hand drawing (especially in poor areas, the shapes of buildings
are not really square and forcing everything to use square angles would
create undesired overlaps). When there will be newer better imageries
later, all will be offseted again, and the new adjustment will be larger
than what you though was lack of precision for not squaring the angles, or
ignoring some small artefacts along walls, doors, windows, roofs, which are
not necessarily visible from the aerial imagery.

So please do not insult people because of your own selfish desire or bad
assumptions. Most contributors are using good faith and OSM has a strong
place for personal judgements and priorities, even if there are some goals
advertized in projects like HOT (actually supported by a limited number of
person but with many more users contributing to OSM independantly of OSM or
with other goals).


2017-12-13 17:45 GMT+01:00 Ralf Stephan :

> Hello,
> just now 5 out of 5 people that registered within the last 24 hours and
> worked on task #3939 did not square their buildings. I hate you, iD devs.
>
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] sporadic validation report

[Russell Deffner]

Bryan,

 

I hope you know that HOT appreciates all you do; personally I don’t disagree 
with leaving communication channels that are more frustration than anything 
else.  My point being, that message was against the Code of Conduct for all 
community members participating in HOT related tools and platforms, including 
this public list.  However, retaliating against HOT the organization because of 
one ‘random’ person’s email, I don’t agree with.  Everyone should consider that 
they are communicating with other human beings and when IRL does that kind of 
communication work to get the results you’re after?  

 

If there is anything I can do to moderate and send people to the correct means 
to ‘air their grievance’ you are welcome to contact me directly,

=Russ

 

Russell Deffner

Voting Member+

Email:  <mailto:russell.deff...@hotosm.org> russell.deff...@hotosm.org

OSM/Skype: russdeffner

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT) 

 <http://hotosm.org/> Web |  
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team> Wiki |  
<http://hotosm.org/updates> Blog |  
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team#Communication> 
Contact |  <http://hotosm.org/donate> Donate – Please Help Us #MapTheDifference

 

 

From: Bryan Housel [mailto:br...@7thposition.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 10:57 AM
To: Russell Deffner
Cc: Ralf Stephan; osm-hot
Subject: Re: [HOT] sporadic validation report

 

Russ I *am* on this mailing list.  But good news for all of you - I’m 
unsubscribing. 

I don’t prioritize features for people or organizations who hate me.

 

Thanks though,

Bryan

 

 

 





On Dec 13, 2017, at 12:51 PM, Russell Deffner <russell.deff...@hotosm.org> 
wrote:

 

Hi Ralf,

 

I hope it doesn’t need much explaining, but that message doesn’t belong on the 
HOT mailing list for 2 reasons.  1) The iD developers are not necessarily on 
the HOT mailing list (this list is for discussing things related to the 
Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)  <https://hotosm.org/> 
https://hotosm.org).  2) The message is in conflict with our Code of Conduct  
<https://www.hotosm.org/hot_code_of_conduct#fullversion> 
https://www.hotosm.org/hot_code_of_conduct#fullversion

 

It would be unfortunate if we need to so quickly put the new community CoC into 
practice, but this message would be a good example for when to put our foot 
down.

 

Please take a break and think before corresponding with us,

=Russ

 

Russell Deffner

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT) 

 <http://hotosm.org/> Web |  
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team> Wiki |  
<http://hotosm.org/updates> Blog |  
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team#Communication> 
Contact |  <http://hotosm.org/donate> Donate – Please help us #mapthedifference!

 

 

From: Ralf Stephan [ <mailto:gtrw...@gmail.com> mailto:gtrw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 9:45 AM
To:  <mailto:hot@openstreetmap.org> hot@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [HOT] sporadic validation report

 

Hello,

just now 5 out of 5 people that registered within the last 24 hours and worked 
on task #3939 did not square their buildings. I hate you, iD devs.

___
HOT mailing list
 <mailto:HOT@openstreetmap.org> HOT@openstreetmap.org
 <https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot> 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

 

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] sporadic validation report

[Russell Deffner]

Hi Ralf,

 

I hope it doesn’t need much explaining, but that message doesn’t belong on the 
HOT mailing list for 2 reasons.  1) The iD developers are not necessarily on 
the HOT mailing list (this list is for discussing things related to the 
Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT) https://hotosm.org).  2) The message is 
in conflict with our Code of Conduct 
https://www.hotosm.org/hot_code_of_conduct#fullversion 

 

It would be unfortunate if we need to so quickly put the new community CoC into 
practice, but this message would be a good example for when to put our foot 
down.

 

Please take a break and think before corresponding with us,

=Russ

 

Russell Deffner

Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT) 

Web <http://hotosm.org/>  | Wiki 
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team>  | Blog 
<http://hotosm.org/updates>  | Contact 
<http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team#Communication>  | 
Donate <http://hotosm.org/donate>  – Please help us #mapthedifference!

 

 

From: Ralf Stephan [mailto:gtrw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 9:45 AM
To: hot@openstreetmap.org
Subject: [HOT] sporadic validation report

 

Hello,

just now 5 out of 5 people that registered within the last 24 hours and worked 
on task #3939 did not square their buildings. I hate you, iD devs.

___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] sporadic validation report

[john whelan]

If you're using JOSM to validate just select all the buildings (search)
then select within nodes:4 then press q.

In TM2 you could do multiple tiles at once but TM3 places each tile on a
separate whatever.

Squaring them isn't to me quite so much of an issue as when you do it the
alignment etc may change.

Cheerio John

On 13 Dec 2017 11:46 am, "Ralf Stephan"  wrote:

> Hello,
> just now 5 out of 5 people that registered within the last 24 hours and
> worked on task #3939 did not square their buildings. I hate you, iD devs.
>
> ___
> HOT mailing list
> HOT@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
>
>
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

Re: [HOT] sporadic validation report

[Mikel Maron]

Whoa, not ok. There is plenty of momentum on this issue, and this is not 
constructive. Lashing out like this is disrespectful not only to developers, 
but everyone else on this list.-Mikel
* Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 

On Wednesday, December 13, 2017, 11:46:15 AM EST, Ralf Stephan 
 wrote:  
 
 Hello,just now 5 out of 5 people that registered within the last 24 hours and 
worked on task #3939 did not square their buildings. I hate you, iD 
devs.___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
  ___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot

[HOT] sporadic validation report

[Ralf Stephan]

Hello,
just now 5 out of 5 people that registered within the last 24 hours and
worked on task #3939 did not square their buildings. I hate you, iD devs.
___
HOT mailing list
HOT@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot