[IAEP] turtle art: 2 instances, no?
I can't see any way to load 2 instances on the SoaS version If I have a project loaded, saved and named Then go into the journal and try to load an older saved version then it doesn't load but puts me back to the current open version I have to first close the current version and then open the older version to get it Also if I am working on a project and remember an idea from a sample project then I can't just load the sample view the idea and then quickly return to my current project to implement there I have to close current project, then open sample and view idea, then close sample, then reopen current project, etc. Please correct if I am wrong about this ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] turtle art: 2 instances, no?
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 7:09 AM, Bill Kerrbillk...@gmail.com wrote: I can't see any way to load 2 instances on the SoaS version If I have a project loaded, saved and named Then go into the journal and try to load an older saved version then it doesn't load but puts me back to the current open version I have to first close the current version and then open the older version to get it Also if I am working on a project and remember an idea from a sample project then I can't just load the sample view the idea and then quickly return to my current project to implement there I have to close current project, then open sample and view idea, then close sample, then reopen current project, etc. Please correct if I am wrong about this This is certainly not the intended behavior, nor what I had been experiencing in my testing. Is this SoaS Strawberry? Which version of Turtle Art are you running? regards. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] turtle art: 2 instances, no?
Hi Bill, On 7 Sep 2009, at 12:09, Bill Kerr wrote: I can't see any way to load 2 instances on the SoaS version If I have a project loaded, saved and named Then go into the journal and try to load an older saved version then it doesn't load but puts me back to the current open version I have to first close the current version and then open the older version to get it This is not a bug with TurtleArt. It's (in my view) the major design backfire that is the Keep button... Keep is not like a copy, duplicate or 'save as' file operation in other OS environments. Sugars Keep is actually a (bad) attempt at Keep version snap shot, unfortunately no where in the Journal UI is this visually indicated/ referenced. Think of Keep a little like non-linear undo states stored to Journal. The problem with all this is that Sugar currently treats all versions you Keep from an activity as the same activity. You can only have one of the versions active at once, this is what you're seeing when you try to resume (what you think is another old activity is actually a version) and Sugar switches to the current version of it you already have open. To create fresh new activities, you need to: 1) start new activity 2) create masterpiece 3) stop activity 4) goto step 1 If you ever find yourself clicking Keep give your self a small jab in the hand with a sharp protractor ;-) In every release of Sugar to date, Keep == horrible design failure, even for the upcoming 0.86. The problem is the real deal (true versioning) is always just over the horizon, like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, and the blasted button some how makes it through (and causes way more grief then it ever solves as the common use case is I want a duplicate copy of this). Regards, --Gary Also if I am working on a project and remember an idea from a sample project then I can't just load the sample view the idea and then quickly return to my current project to implement there I have to close current project, then open sample and view idea, then close sample, then reopen current project, etc. Please correct if I am wrong about this ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] help move teacher tips+tricks round the world!
Rita Freudenberg spoke eloquently yesterday on the many teachers she's met across South America hungry but unable to exchange valuable classroom experiences! Today Bobby Powers will be creating such a draft world map of all your 20 or 30 chapters -- similar to Intel's http://skoool.com -- please now send him (cc'd) I: 1) Your Story/Chapter Title 2) Its Country City 3) An very enticing abstract! 4) A couple enticing breakout quotes we'll need later, if you have them ready yet ;-) Or post this directly to the map section on top here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/ClassActs/Table_of_contents Thanks all for jumping in to start writing your personal Class Acts story here: http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/ClassActs/WebHome See you all day (9AM - 7PM DC time) on #olpc-help right here: http://forum.laptop.org And 12noon today for our special guest facilitator Josh Gay from FSF and CK12! ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] turtle art: 2 instances, no?
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Bill, On 7 Sep 2009, at 12:09, Bill Kerr wrote: I can't see any way to load 2 instances on the SoaS version If I have a project loaded, saved and named Then go into the journal and try to load an older saved version then it doesn't load but puts me back to the current open version I have to first close the current version and then open the older version to get it This is not a bug with TurtleArt. It's (in my view) the major design backfire that is the Keep button... Keep is not like a copy, duplicate or 'save as' file operation in other OS environments. Sugars Keep is actually a (bad) attempt at Keep version snap shot, unfortunately no where in the Journal UI is this visually indicated/referenced. Think of Keep a little like non-linear undo states stored to Journal. The problem with all this is that Sugar currently treats all versions you Keep from an activity as the same activity. You can only have one of the versions active at once, this is what you're seeing when you try to resume (what you think is another old activity is actually a version) and Sugar switches to the current version of it you already have open. To create fresh new activities, you need to: 1) start new activity 2) create masterpiece 3) stop activity 4) goto step 1 If you ever find yourself clicking Keep give your self a small jab in the hand with a sharp protractor ;-) hi gary, I'm doing some of the barry newell 40 shapes challenge I posted on another thread Some of the shapes are related to other shapes eg. after I do shape 6 then I want to Keep that as BN6 then use it again to make BN7, etc So I change the name in the box from BN6 to BN7 and click Keep It does work similar to Save As ... If I go to the Journal and click the arrow on the right the image represents the different versions But the confusion arises when I try to open an old version and just get back to the currently open version So I can achieve something like Save As ... but can't achieve opening two versions at once, as you say In every release of Sugar to date, Keep == horrible design failure, even for the upcoming 0.86. The problem is the real deal (true versioning) is always just over the horizon, like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, and the blasted button some how makes it through (and causes way more grief then it ever solves as the common use case is I want a duplicate copy of this). Regards, --Gary Also if I am working on a project and remember an idea from a sample project then I can't just load the sample view the idea and then quickly return to my current project to implement there I have to close current project, then open sample and view idea, then close sample, then reopen current project, etc. Please correct if I am wrong about this ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] turtle art: 2 instances, no?
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 7:09 AM, Bill Kerrbillk...@gmail.com wrote: I can't see any way to load 2 instances on the SoaS version If I have a project loaded, saved and named Then go into the journal and try to load an older saved version then it doesn't load but puts me back to the current open version I have to first close the current version and then open the older version to get it Also if I am working on a project and remember an idea from a sample project then I can't just load the sample view the idea and then quickly return to my current project to implement there I have to close current project, then open sample and view idea, then close sample, then reopen current project, etc. Please correct if I am wrong about this This is certainly not the intended behavior, nor what I had been experiencing in my testing. Is this SoaS Strawberry? Which version of Turtle Art are you running? hi walter, yes its SoaS Strawberry, I can't see how to check the version but I haven't changed the default version - I just had a look at the source but couldn't see the version number there regards. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] turtle art: 2 instances, no?
On 7 Sep 2009, at 15:03, Bill Kerr wrote: On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Bill, On 7 Sep 2009, at 12:09, Bill Kerr wrote: I can't see any way to load 2 instances on the SoaS version If I have a project loaded, saved and named Then go into the journal and try to load an older saved version then it doesn't load but puts me back to the current open version I have to first close the current version and then open the older version to get it This is not a bug with TurtleArt. It's (in my view) the major design backfire that is the Keep button... Keep is not like a copy, duplicate or 'save as' file operation in other OS environments. Sugars Keep is actually a (bad) attempt at Keep version snap shot, unfortunately no where in the Journal UI is this visually indicated/referenced. Think of Keep a little like non-linear undo states stored to Journal. The problem with all this is that Sugar currently treats all versions you Keep from an activity as the same activity. You can only have one of the versions active at once, this is what you're seeing when you try to resume (what you think is another old activity is actually a version) and Sugar switches to the current version of it you already have open. To create fresh new activities, you need to: 1) start new activity 2) create masterpiece 3) stop activity 4) goto step 1 If you ever find yourself clicking Keep give your self a small jab in the hand with a sharp protractor ;-) hi gary, I'm doing some of the barry newell 40 shapes challenge I posted on another thread Some of the shapes are related to other shapes eg. after I do shape 6 then I want to Keep that as BN6 then use it again to make BN7, etc So I change the name in the box from BN6 to BN7 and click Keep It does work similar to Save As ... If I go to the Journal and click the arrow on the right the image represents the different versions But the confusion arises when I try to open an old version and just get back to the currently open version So I can achieve something like Save As ... but can't achieve opening two versions at once, as you say I did just the same thing last year with a set of shapes from a Logo work sheet from one of the deployments, use keep to modify a previously similar TA setup. I got to about 30 before Keep got me into a total mess. In the end I had to take screen shots of each of the TA project tile sets, and manually recreate each so I could have several examples open at the same time. Using Keep will get you into even more hot water if you intend to share such examples via collaboration... As shared versions will be seen as the same activity, a remote user will likely just get whatever they version they first joined, then each time then join (what you may think is) a different shared activity example, they will just resume/switch to the previous one. The Keep button is quite the Sugar usability land-mine :-( I think Walter has added a new Save snapshot button to a recent version of TurtleArt to avoid just this very issue. Regards, --Gary ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] turtle art: 2 instances, no?
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 10:15 AM, Bill Kerrbillk...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 7:09 AM, Bill Kerrbillk...@gmail.com wrote: I can't see any way to load 2 instances on the SoaS version If I have a project loaded, saved and named Then go into the journal and try to load an older saved version then it doesn't load but puts me back to the current open version I have to first close the current version and then open the older version to get it Also if I am working on a project and remember an idea from a sample project then I can't just load the sample view the idea and then quickly return to my current project to implement there I have to close current project, then open sample and view idea, then close sample, then reopen current project, etc. Please correct if I am wrong about this This is certainly not the intended behavior, nor what I had been experiencing in my testing. Is this SoaS Strawberry? Which version of Turtle Art are you running? hi walter, yes its SoaS Strawberry, I can't see how to check the version but I haven't changed the default version - I just had a look at the source but couldn't see the version number there regards. -walter You can check the version from the list view in the Home View. If it is Strawberry, then updating Turtle Art will be a bit more complicated that for most activities (Turtle Art is installed in /usr/share/sugar/activities instead of the usual ~/Activities/). from the Terminal: su - rm -r /usr/share/sugar/activities/TurtleArt.activity reboot and then install a new version from activities.sugarlabs.org http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/downloads/latest/4027/addon-4027-latest.xo What you will get from more recent Turtle Art versions is a snapshot button that works like keep but generates a new Activity ID. Only if you have a new ID can you open a new instance at the same time as an old instance. BTW, did you know that you can copy/paste stacks to/from the clipboard? You type Ctrl-C to copy whatever stack is under the cursor to the clipboard. Ctrl-V will paste from the clipboard onto whatever TA project you have open. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] turtle art: 2 instances, no?
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Bill, On 7 Sep 2009, at 12:09, Bill Kerr wrote: I can't see any way to load 2 instances on the SoaS version If I have a project loaded, saved and named Then go into the journal and try to load an older saved version then it doesn't load but puts me back to the current open version I have to first close the current version and then open the older version to get it This is not a bug with TurtleArt. It's (in my view) the major design backfire that is the Keep button... Keep is not like a copy, duplicate or 'save as' file operation in other OS environments. Sugars Keep is actually a (bad) attempt at Keep version snap shot, unfortunately no where in the Journal UI is this visually indicated/ referenced. Think of Keep a little like non-linear undo states stored to Journal. This is true. Perhaps we could make it more explicit by naming it Save a version instead. What we really need is a Keep a copy secondary action that can be used in the manner many desire, to create a clone of the instance with a separate activity ID. Equally important, we should have a Make a copy or Duplicate button in the Journal to enable this as a top level function there. Here's some more background reading: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2009-July/016494.html The problem with all this is that Sugar currently treats all versions you Keep from an activity as the same activity. You can only have one of the versions active at once, this is what you're seeing when This is actually another bug. On several of the threads discussing versions this came up, and it's clear that there is value to having multiple versions of the same activity instance open at once, specifically for the purpose of copying elements from an older version into a newer one. Revising Sugar to make this possible, regardless of when we land version support, would be beneficial. you try to resume (what you think is another old activity is actually a version) and Sugar switches to the current version of it you already have open. We also discussed that this might be a choice (to join the existing, or work on the older version). Eben To create fresh new activities, you need to: 1) start new activity 2) create masterpiece 3) stop activity 4) goto step 1 If you ever find yourself clicking Keep give your self a small jab in the hand with a sharp protractor ;-) In every release of Sugar to date, Keep == horrible design failure, even for the upcoming 0.86. The problem is the real deal (true versioning) is always just over the horizon, like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, and the blasted button some how makes it through (and causes way more grief then it ever solves as the common use case is I want a duplicate copy of this). Regards, --Gary Also if I am working on a project and remember an idea from a sample project then I can't just load the sample view the idea and then quickly return to my current project to implement there I have to close current project, then open sample and view idea, then close sample, then reopen current project, etc. Please correct if I am wrong about this ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] A video about a 1-1 Apple laptop middle school in NYC - School Surveillance and a discussion on Multitaskingr
Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu writes: Dennis Daniels wrote: That's one of the reasons I was initially attracted to Sugar in that the peer networking was built in... please tell me that one station monitoring of all students is built in as well. Nope. No monitoring built in. However, I have recently implemented it as an Activity called Watch Me [1]. If it isn't then it should be for the teacher's sake. 1. As a technical matter, this is not so easy over a congested wireless network. 2. We care much more about students than teachers. Is it good for the students? Who is we? I personally think this reasoning is very wrong. I wish Sugar can be developed in a way that caring about the students and caring about the teachers are complementary challenges, not opposite tasks. Everytime someone sees the teachers as a barrier to learning, he gives credit to the illusion of spontaneous learning, and we loose the Sugar audience. Learning by oneself is very different from spontaneous learning, and good teachers have a great expertise in guiding students throught what they want or need to learn by themselves. In fact, learning by oneself should be considered kind of a tautology: what we learn is what WE learn. If the first learner was Menon, let's not forget he had a great teacher. In other words, Sugar's design comes from a culture with a deep distrust of authority figures. I got my programming start by hacking my school's computer systems, and I'm sure the same is true of many other contributors here. You will find plenty of opposition to letting teachers watch what students are doing without permission. I don't think there is a relevant connection between dictatorship and teachers monitoring their classrooms via the system Dennis is calling for. But maybe there will be a link between the lack of such system and the lack of Sugar in classrooms. Regards, -- Bastien ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] Please enable Special:FGrose in Mediawiki
Hello, I noticed an interesting feature of wiki.sugarlabs.org that would be good to have enabled in default Mediawiki installations. To use it, just put line like this in your wiki page: TODO: split these entries to several Machine/foo pages A mysterious, AI-driven bot named FGrose will be promptly spawned and, within *minutes*, will automatically perform all the associated work. It's amazing... we must have it at all costs!! -- Mr. Michael Snow Chair Mediawiki Foundation ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] student guidelines _very_ rough draft
This summer, Sugar Labs had 12 students working under various gsoc, intern, workstudy, and co-op programs. Overall, the results have been promising. There are a few things which we can do to improve the experience for everyone. Based on conversations with other opensource project the three keys to success for working with students are: 1. Clearly defined expectations for student, sponsor, and project. 2. Clearly project plan with implementation strategy. 3. Experienced mentor. Below is a very rough draft of a student guidelines document. I would appreciate suggestions. david Thank you for your interest in working, and learning, with Sugar Labs. Sugar Labs has a large number of smart and passionate student participants. These student often go on to become Sugar Lab's most important contributors and project leaders. One of the advantage of being a student is that you can combine your learning experience at Sugar Labs with your official school activites through intern-ships, co-ops, work study programs, and privately sponsored contracts. The following guidelines are intended to insure that your Sugar Lab's experience is beneficial for you, your school, and Sugar Labs. Working with Sugar Lab's as an intern, co-op, or work study student means that there is a contractual obligation between you, your school, and Sugar Lab's. This document represents the thoughts and deliberations which have gone into making your experience at Sugar Labs beneficial for you, your school, and Sugar Labs.[REPEATED TEXT] == project description== Experience has shown than the most important factor in having a successful experience at Sugar Labs is your project plan. The plan represents the vision of what you want to accomplish and provides roadmap for how to make that vision a reality. Exploration, collaboration, and reflection. Plan provides boundaries so you can freely explore. First big project for many students. Done before starting program good plan implies investment by student-investment by student results in good mentor. Fail to plan - Plan to fail. The plan should include: [CHECK LIST] *deliverable *learning objective ==mentor== The second most important piece to success is your mentor. link to community master - apprentice ==General information== Below is general information for filling out your school's forms. ===Overview=== Sugar Labs is organized as a member project of the Software Freedom Conservancy[1]. The SFC is an umbrella organization which handles the accounting work, financial management, and makes sure the activities of Sugar Labs fit within the scope of the non-profit status. ===Mission statement=== The mission of Sugar Labs® is to produce, distribute, and support the use of the Sugar learning platform; it is a support base and gathering place for the community of educators and developers to create, extend, and teach with the Sugar learning platform. ===Funding=== Sugar Labs is funded through donations from its contributing members. ===Agency Name=== Sugar Labs (A member project of the Software Freedom Conservancy) ===Agency Contact=== Bradley M. Kuhn ===Postal Address=== Software Freedom Conservancy 1995 Broadway FL 17 New York, NY 10023-5882 ===Telephone=== +1-212-461-3245 tel +1-212-580-0898 fax ===Email=== conserva...@softwarefreedom.org ===Addition information=== For additional information or forms please contact dfarn...@sugarlabs.org. ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] logging of #sugar channel
On Sat, Sep 05, 2009 at 03:05:58PM -0700, Dennis Daniels wrote: I'd like to bring up the discussion of logging the Sugar IRC channel. -1 from me, as before. A Google search for #sugar irc logs would turn up a long discussion of this issue. If a google-able discussion of an exact issue doesn't help communication, I'm not sure why you think public IRC logs will. Dennis Martin pgpNpLq4uUYVS.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] Please enable Special:FGrose in Mediawiki
So you are saying that http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:FGrose has passed the inverse Turing Test? ^_^ On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 2:52 PM, Bernie Innocentiber...@codewiz.org wrote: Hello, I noticed an interesting feature of wiki.sugarlabs.org that would be good to have enabled in default Mediawiki installations. To use it, just put line like this in your wiki page: TODO: split these entries to several Machine/foo pages A mysterious, AI-driven bot named FGrose will be promptly spawned and, within *minutes*, will automatically perform all the associated work. It's amazing... we must have it at all costs!! -- Mr. Michael Snow Chair Mediawiki Foundation ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://earthtreasury.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
