Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

Hi Martin!

On 12 April 2016 at 17:02, Martin Dengler  wrote:

>
> On 12 Apr 2016, at 14:45, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
>
> On 12 April 2016 at 15:38, Martin Dengler 
> wrote:
>
>> The point is that because it's a waste of work and nobody wants to do it,
>
>
> Give me the keys and I'll do it.
>
>
> You don't need keys. You need a wiki replacement. You need to do the work
> to create a replacement for wiki.sl.o. Then the DNS can be changed.  It's
> super-easy to say "let's do it" and super-hard to actually do it. Put your
> wiki where your mouth is :).
>

https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs is the replacement.

Once https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs/pull/19 is merged, I'll ask
systems@ to create two A records that point the sugarlabs.org domain to
192.30.252.153 and 192.30.252.154, per
https://help.github.com/articles/setting-up-an-apex-domain/


-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[James Cameron]

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 09:35:31PM -0500, Sebastian Silva wrote:
> El 12/04/16 a las 11:36, Dave Crossland escribió:
> 
> One issue with this is that MediaWikiText is not Markdown. Then there
> are images, tables, etc.
> 
> Did you consider [1]http://pandoc.org ? :)
> 
> Yes. At the time I had a really slow link and it wanted to pull like 300mb of
> dependencies.
> It was overkill for my need which was migrating the pe.sugarlabs.org wiki from
> mediawiki, did it manually.

Which, by the way, looks very nice.  Well done.

-- 
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Sebastian Silva]

El 12/04/16 a las 11:36, Dave Crossland escribió:
>
> One issue with this is that MediaWikiText is not Markdown. Then there
> are images, tables, etc.
>
>
> Did you consider http://pandoc.org ? :)
Yes. At the time I had a really slow link and it wanted to pull like
300mb of dependencies.
It was overkill for my need which was migrating the pe.sugarlabs.org
wiki from mediawiki, did it manually.
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Martin Dengler]

> On 12 Apr 2016, at 14:45, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 12 April 2016 at 15:38, Martin Dengler  wrote:
>> The point is that because it's a waste of work and nobody wants to do it,
> 
> Give me the keys and I'll do it. 

You don't need keys. You need a wiki replacement. You need to do the work to 
create a replacement for wiki.sl.o. Then the DNS can be changed.  It's 
super-easy to say "let's do it" and super-hard to actually do it. Put your wiki 
where your mouth is :).

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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

On 12 April 2016 at 15:38, Martin Dengler  wrote:

> The point is that because it's a waste of work and nobody wants to do it,


Give me the keys and I'll do it.
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Martin Dengler]

> On 12 Apr 2016, at 11:36, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
>> On 12 April 2016 at 09:17, Sebastian Silva  wrote:
>> One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that, although we could do
>> better, the wiki and the mailing list are among the *things that work*.
> 
> Right, that's why I am focusing on reforming them :) 

Replacing is hardly reforming.

> Kindly, the wiki [is] stale.

Changing a wiki with "click to edit" to a different system with a "click to 
edit" function will not make it less stale.

>> Frederick Grose has been on top of the Mediawiki from the web-admin
>> point of view and is quite knowledgeable of it.
>> I'm afraid a longer different-to-wikipedia process might be a chore to
>> set up with little return of investment.
>  I'm advocating for [changing from mediawiki to something else].

You don't seem to have anyone to actually do the work to even set up a credible 
alternative yet. Why don't you do that first and migrate part of the content, 
then advocate for switching?

>> El 12/04/16 a las 07:58, Dave Crossland escribió:
>> >
>> > +1
>> >
>> > Who will set this up on the SL servers, and when? :)
>> 
>> As with all volunteer projects, those who do the work decide how (and
>> when) it's done. I don't think this is low hanging, or even fruit.
> 
> If no one wants to do it, I think Github Pages + Jeykll wins, because the 
> only systems administration effort is required is setting the DNS records. 

If noone wants to change things, we should change things?

The point is that because it's a waste of work and nobody wants to do it, it's 
not going to get done. Not dealing with that is just wasting emails.


> -- 
> Cheers
> Dave

Martin

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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

Hi!

On 12 April 2016 at 09:17, Sebastian Silva 
wrote:

> One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that, although we could do
> better, the wiki and the mailing list are among the *things that work*.
>

Right, that's why I am focusing on reforming them :)

Kindly, the wiki and the mailing lists are stale. They were set up many
years ago, and I think that if SL was being set up today it would be set up
differently.

I'm curious, what things do you think do not work?


> Frederick Grose has been on top of the Mediawiki from the web-admin
> point of view and is quite knowledgeable of it.
> I'm afraid a longer different-to-wikipedia process might be a chore to
> set up with little return of investment.
>

I don't suggest turning the wiki read-only until it is clear that it is no
longer being contributed to.

Like bugs.sl.o to github, https://github.com/sugarlabs/www-sugarlabs and
https://developer.sugarlabs.org already started the move from wiki to
markdown-on-github, and I'm advocating for completing it.


> El 12/04/16 a las 07:58, Dave Crossland escribió:
> >
> > +1
> >
> > Who will set this up on the SL servers, and when? :)
>
> As with all volunteer projects, those who do the work decide how (and
> when) it's done. I don't think this is low hanging, or even fruit.
>

If no one wants to do it, I think Github Pages + Jeykll wins, because the
only systems administration effort is required is setting the DNS records.

Who controls the DNS records?


> For what it's worth I wrote some tools some time ago to extract
> wikipages from MediaWiki into plain text structure:
> https://git.sugarlabs.org/somosazucar/spamblaster
>
> One issue with this is that MediaWikiText is not Markdown. Then there
> are images, tables, etc.
>

Did you consider http://pandoc.org ? :)

-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Sebastian Silva]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that, although we could do
better, the wiki and the mailing list are among the *things that work*.

Frederick Grose has been on top of the Mediawiki from the web-admin
point of view and is quite knowledgeable of it.
I'm afraid a longer different-to-wikipedia process might be a chore to
set up with little return of investment.

El 12/04/16 a las 07:58, Dave Crossland escribió:
>
> +1
>
> Who will set this up on the SL servers, and when? :) 

As with all volunteer projects, those who do the work decide how (and
when) it's done. I don't think this is low hanging, or even fruit.

For what it's worth I wrote some tools some time ago to extract
wikipages from MediaWiki into plain text structure:
https://git.sugarlabs.org/somosazucar/spamblaster

One issue with this is that MediaWikiText is not Markdown. Then there
are images, tables, etc.

Regards,
Sebastian
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Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] Samson's proposal to SLOBs

[samson goddy]

  Thanks for the question Dave, Let me explain why the Yoruba came with the 
price $6,000. Originally, The Yoruba come with a price of 1500 USD. About the 
Internet plan in Nigeria is quite expensive. Like i told Tony, getting a 
portable internet connection plus the device cost about $300 a month. I also 
explained that getting anything related to tech is also expensive in Nigeria. 
For example getting an iphone6 plus might cost about $700-800 in USA or amazon, 
with the current exchange rate of 200 Nigerian naira to 1 dollar doesn't make 
everything in Nigeria cheaper. To get that same phone in Nigeria is about 
250,000 naira here in Nigeria that about 1255.0225 US Dollar, you see the 
difference. India or USA is not Nigeria these country has a stable economy. You 
could do you research about Nigeria economy currently and see for yourself. 

 To answer Tony questions

"Is there a workplace available where the team could meet to work on the 
project? Clearly an internet contract will provide access to only one 
location.?" yes there is a workplace where the translators will meet. 

"Samson intends to apply for admission to a university and so may not be able 
to manage this proposal to its completion."? my next SAT is in June and i am 
applying by November 1st to U.S colleges. So yes i got time. Because out of the 
six, i am handling (Yoruba) and Nigerian Pidgin. While the rest i will be taken 
care by the translators under my supervision.

"Can some of these XO laptops be recovered/recycled. The owners are now in 
their late teens and probably wanting to use smartphones or standard laptops. 
They may be willing to sell them for a relatively small amount given that the 
local demand for XOs is probably negligible. These could be refurbished and 
deployed either to support a local hackerspace or to supply enough for one 
class at a local school."? yes they can. Those who don't want to use the xo any 
more normally give them to their young ones to use. 

"Finally, I think it would be cool to think about this funding as 
investment, rather than just straight funding. You are going go through 
the effort of finding people to translate, teaching them about Sugar, 
getting new hardware for Sugar related projects, etc etc! It is a lot :)
 So, if you do all that, I recommend thinking about how to use that 
built up energy and value in a way that can move towards self-funding 
this kind of effort. For example, offering workshops business model, 
because the risks can be minimized and it can have low overheads, and 
there are several markets for them - eg, offering sugar workshops to 
wealthier communities of parents who are passionate about these 
languages; or, partnering with existing IT training businesses."? Yes that is 
want i have in mind to do. 

 Yes i would create Sugar Labs workshops, in Port Harcourt probably in other 
parts of Nigeria too. These workshop will bring more users to the sugar 
community, uses the xo's, Sugar on stick, sugarizer. It will be a whole new 
word for Nigerians. I already find partners  for the workshop. And also i would 
really like if some one from Sugar Labs community will be present too e.g like 
walter for Musics Blocks and Turtle art JS. Also most of this questions you are 
answer is already been answered. I am spending a lot of $$ in cyber cafe. So i 
can't really answer all your questions. like i said before SLOBs should invest 
in this proposal probably this April(i am not forcing the issue) so that things 
can be done quicker. and i can be able to start planing for workshops.

Samson Goddy
 




From: d...@lab6.com
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2016 00:12:44 -0400
To: samsongo...@hotmail.com
CC: h...@unleashkids.org; s...@unleashkids.org; 
sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org; samsongo...@gmail.com; lio...@olpc-france.org; 
tony_ander...@usa.net; sl...@lists.sugarlabs.org; la...@somosazucar.org; 
cbige...@hotmail.com; nices...@gmail.com; cjlhomeaddr...@gmail.com; 
ca...@media.mit.edu; t...@sugarlabs.org; t...@olenepal.org; 
canoe.be...@yahoo.com; iaep@lists.sugarlabs.org; t...@timmoody.com; 
godi...@sugarlabs.org
Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Samson's proposal to SLOBs


Hi Samson
Great proposal - and glad to hear you are feeling better :) 
I have 2 questions :)
1. You write in the proposal,
the reason why the Yoruba was the most expensive, was because the logistics 
Portable internet and internet plan was included, two laptop was included too.
I am curious about the breakdown of the Yoruba line item :) 
How much is a portable internet USB dongle and a plan in Nigeria these days? 
Which laptops did you pick, and what are their costs? Also I wonder which 
vendors did you pick? I know that in India (where I've been visiting the last 2 
years) that computers/phones are often bought from small local vendors who 
compete a lot to sell cheap chinese hardware; but also Amazon and other big 
companies also are popular :) 


2. Which software packages will be translated, exactly? The sugar 

Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

On 11 April 2016 at 23:30, Sam P.  wrote:

> Hosting a static site is a non-issue.  We can easily do it on SL servers.
> We can even configure it to automatically rebuild on git update.
>
> I would not use github pages.  It does not yet support TLS, which is very
> important in this day and age.
>
> Don't let Jekyll limit you either.  I have not compared it to other
> solutions, especially not when making a wiki.  We can run anything on our
> servers.
>

Wow, okay cool! If we have among us the labor power to set up git hooks so
that changes made on a ssg source repo on github are reliably rebuilt
quickly, that would be ideal, I think.

However, if it would be a burden or unmaintained, then using a 3rd party
host that costs $0 and has those core features and is maintained would be
better, I think.

I'm not really qualified to make the call on which ssg is best for us. I
took a quick look and of the 2, I think I prefer tesla to lektor.

As long as the one chosen accepts markdown and something simply like liquid
or jinja2 for templates, I'm happy :)

Re: TLS, since it is a common problem, someone already fixed it,
https://github.com/isaacs/github/issues/156#issuecomment-193166403


> Could this project also merge the developer site back into the
> static-wiki?  Right now it feels very oddly separated.
>

+1

Who will set this up on the SL servers, and when? :)

-- 
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Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[James Cameron]

On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 01:30:00PM +1000, Sam P. wrote:
> Could this project also merge the developer site back into the
> static-wiki?  Right now it feels very oddly separated.

+1

It is also focused on sugar-build, not native package building,
doesn't cover Gtk activity development, and is infrequently updated.

I'm able to find time to update Wiki pages on development topics, but
the toolchain requirements for sugar-docs is a barrier I've yet to
climb.

-- 
James Cameron
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Re: [IAEP] Wiki Gardening Weekend (May 14-15, Boston, USA)

[Sam P.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Hi Dave,

Hosting a static site is a non-issue.  We can easily do it on SL servers.  We 
can even configure it to automatically rebuild on git update.

I would not use github pages.  It does not yet support TLS, which is very 
important in this day and age.

Don't let Jekyll limit you either.  I have not compared it to other solutions, 
especially not when making a wiki.  We can run anything on our servers.

Could this project also merge the developer site back into the static-wiki?  
Right now it feels very oddly separated.

Thanks,
Sam

On 12 April 2016 7:51:12 AM AEST, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>Hi Sebastian!
>
>In the "Seeking insights into Oversight_Board/Decisions" thread you
>said,
>
>On 11 April 2016 at 14:57, Sebastian Silva 
> wrote:
>
>> El 11/04/16 a las 13:56, Walter Bender escribió:
>>
>>
>>> Generally I think all mediawiki instances should be retired and
>replaced
>>> with a static site generator backed by a distributed version control
>"pull
>>> request" model of collaboration.
>>>
>>> http://designwithfontforge.com has semi-prominent "edit this page"
>(that
>>> could be even more prominent) and Github itself and 3rd party web
>editors
>>> like http://prose.io provide the "wiki" experience of editing pages
>>> directly, but with the PR permissions model that - IMHO - cultivates
>more
>>> quality.
>>>
>> Mediawiki has been an administration burden from infrastructure team
>and
>> Local Labs as well.
>>
>> +1 on static site generators. Last year we replaced Wordpress for
>Nikola
>> at somosazucar.org. Lektor is also interesting. Both are small enough
>to
>> fit into a Sugar Activity for offline scenarios :-)
>
>
>Both are pure python too. Cool :)
>
>I propose using https://pages.github.com for hosting the site, and thus
>the
>Jeykll static site generator (writte in ruby)
>
>If Nikola/Lektor/anything-else is used as the static site generator,
>the
>site source can be hosted on github, and travis can be used to run the
>SSG
>and upload the build to a server via SFTP or git or similar (in a
>secure
>way.)
>
>Here are some explanations:
>
>https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/deployment/custom/
>
>https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/uploading-artifacts/
>
>How to decide hosting sites on pages.github.com or elsewhere?
>
>Cheers
>Dave
>
>
>
>
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Re: [IAEP] 2015 SocialHelp Survey?

[Sam P.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Hi Dave,

I will remove this post asap.  The survey had indeed stopped.

I will release the results.  Unfortunately I am currently away from my laptop.

Thanks,
Sam

On 12 April 2016 8:10:43 AM AEST, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>Hi Sam!
>
>Pinned to the top of https://socialhelp.sugarlabs.org is a thread,
>"Survey
>- “How bad is Sugar (software)?”"
>
>Are the results of this survey available anywhere? :)
>
>If not, the survey contents is anonymous, so I don't see any reason to
>keep
>the full results private, but perhaps I'm missing something :)
>
>--
>Cheers
>Dave

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