Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs Vision Discussion in 6 hours

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

After the call we are not really closer to concluding the revision of
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Vision_proposal_2016 or
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Mission_proposal_2016 or
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/2016_Goals

But, for me, the call was very interesting for me to hear Walter, Sam, Sean
and Eli's perspectives, and I invite you all to read the summary and
minutes below and let us all know your thoughts.

I've made a summary near the top of the 3 main topics we discussed.

(This is the current state of https://titanpad.com/SLVision )

- - - 8< - - -

Sugar Labs Vision

2016-06-14 Video Call: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENLWvPV8jrI

Laura's pre-meeting text:

I believe this is a vision, we can all share> why we made SN?

"Sugar has the capacity to become the main facilitator for free-libre
knowledge exchange among children-users of all continents."

why is this necesary?

Only by eliminating all obstacles for children-users to exchange knowledge
among each other, they are going to be able to build a new, more just and
enjoyable world.

In SN Knowedge exchange is measured as:

knowledge exchange = Amount of Interactions among Nodes / cycle

Facilitating the access to the net communication exchange services directly
from the OS, as SN does, facilitates the knowledge exchange among
children-users to actually happen.



*Call Summary:*


What are the important things Sugar Labs should make? Sean suggested 4
things which I phrase as:

- installable software, so its easy to try out and to use
- stable software, so nothing crashes
- lesson plans. so any adult can cultivate the education Sugar is designed
to encourage
- active user community, so any one can get help




Should we support the XO-1?

No:

The Browse activity is fundementally broken: We can't use old browsers
(webkit v1) on modern websites, and that hardware isn't powerful enough for
new browsers and modern websites either; the latest v8 JavaScript JIT
compiler doesn't work well with the exotic x86 chip on the XO-1.

All the XOs require specially crafted Linux kernels, and OLPC doesn't have
up to date versions so OLPC OS is stuck with Fedora 18. New versions of GTK
are blocked on the kernel - it seems - and this turns away developers. Its
not fine! ;)

As Fedora gets newer, it will work less well on the XO-1, assuming more
resources than the XO-1 has, even if the kernel is updated. Would Puppy
work better than Fedora going forwards, as it is something intended for
ultra low power computers?

Yes:

The XO is still exciting: Its why Eli and I were excited to join Sugar Labs
this year, as we have our own XOs, and that it is not a powerful computer
is not a problem, it is way more powerful than an Apple Macintosh from the
80s (which cost $20,000+ back then)

Few people are using Sugar without an XO, there seem to be 10,000s of kids
using XO-1s on a weekly basis, based on the ASLO stats, and high 100s (?)
using it on a generic computer.

Its easy to get an XO-1 on ebay as a developer.

Its sad that the kernel work has ended up being painted into a corner
because OLPC didnt upstream stuff (?) and we are stuck with kernel on a
private fork, stuck on fedora 18, stuck on old GTK versions, but it isn't
the end of the world. Its fine! We just need to be clear that in 2016 that
is what you have to write against, and make it easy to do so.

CentOS v7 will be supported until 2020, so making a image with the crafted
kernel and CentOS v7 packages could be ideal. Or perhaps it could target
puppylinux or something that is 'old school' and will never do Network
Manager, systemd, etc? http://puppylinux.org
https://github.com/puppylinux-woof-CE/woof-CE

But all mainstream distros will stop support for x86 in 2020, so that will
be the EOL date, and we should plan for that.

ACTION ITEM: Dave will talk with Leah at OLPC on Thursday, and ask what
their goals are for the next few years, when they will end support for
XO-1s, and what they would advise in the scenario that we break Sugar for
XOs in the 0.110 release, etc






What is the reference hardware for the 0.110 release, if it is not the
XO-1?

Let's select a cheap chromebook that boots as a fedora sugar system, as
there are a lot of choices. and we know that schools are buying chromebooks
(they outsell apple these days.) Sugar Labs can buy some and offers to loan
them to developers, and the sugarlabs.org website could even sell them
direct. Before that, it can provide links to 3 vendors to buy a specific
SKU from, and clear instructions on how to get that machine up and running
with Sugar.

Then the Sugar developer community can get it really working on this
machine for 0.110.

We should not pick XOs or Classmates, these are niche machines and hard to
obtain.

We could pick a chromebook model from 1-3 years ago, and perhaps there are
batches of 100s of them somewhere to buy cheaply.


ACTION ITEM: Walter is in Santiago de Chile this week promoting Sugar and
will ask what people there suggest as a 

Re: [IAEP] International Society for Technology in Education 2016 Conference and Expo?

[Sora Edwards-Thro]

Right, but it's called "Project Rive" on the planet.laptop.org site.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:23 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Hi
>
> You mean the https://kidswrite.org blog? :)
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 21:47, Sora Edwards-Thro  wrote:
> > I'll be printing a poster, which I can put on my blog linked to
> > planet.laptop.org if I figure out how to format it so it displays
> properly
> > on a screen. I plan to write up my results in a formal paper once we get
> the
> > data from the pilot concluding in June.
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:39 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Sora
> >>
> >> I'm curious about your presentation that is coming up in a couple of
> >> weeks - will your slides be available online? :)
> >>
> >> On 31 March 2016 at 12:31, Sora Edwards-Thro 
> wrote:
> >> > I'll be there presenting research on a literacy project with XOs in
> >> > Haiti.
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 12:32 AM, Dave Crossland 
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi
> >> >>
> >> >> Is anyone involved in Sugar Labs going to
> >> >> https://conference.iste.org/2016/ ?
> >> >>
> >> >> Has anyone gone from SL attended previous years?
> >> >>
> >> >> ISTE 2016 says it is "the premier education technology conference,"
> and
> >> >> will be held June 26-29 in Denver, Colorado, USA.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Cheers
> >> >> Dave
> >> >>
> >> >> ___
> >> >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> >> >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> >> >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Cheers
> >> Dave
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> > IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers
> Dave
>
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Re: [IAEP] A Better Idea...

[Dave Crossland]

On 11 June 2016 at 11:12, Sean DALY  wrote:
> Dave - I don't agree that whomever submits a grant application becomes the
> treasurer for those funds.

Fair enough :) I am merely observing what I see as current practice
with the Trip Advisor grant :)

> What should happen is a sales cycle: if there is
> interest, the SLOBs should be in the loop so they can assist with
> face-to-face meetings, followup documents, and Adam/SFC liaison issues.
> Document signings involving Walter require prior SFC review. In my view,
> disbursal of funds from a successful grant should be managed by SFC/SLOBs
> (perhaps primarily in the role of a Finance Manager or Treasurer), as per
> Gould or TripAdvisor.

Please could you clarify why Walter (or any other SLOB) would
specifically need to be signing documents; I understand that that
Conservancy signs the documents, because legally Conservancy is the
party to them and neither SLOBs nor Members are agents of Conservancy
and lack signing authority.

Conversely, I don't see why SLOBS or Conservancy would be involved in
the management of a project; they only and merely approve the funding,
and until a Financial Manager is in place, this is done by regular
motion.

On 11 June 2016 at 16:44, Caryl Bigenho  wrote:
>
> What does the SFC say about the management of grant funds?

I understand their policy is that spends have to be agreed by SLOB
within the terms of the grant.

-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] Sugar Labs Vision Discussion in 6 hours

[Laura Vargas]

I don't think I'll be able to assist to the Hang Out.

Still, in order to facilitate the collaborative construction of our vision
statement, I created a pad at https://titanpad.com/SLVision with my
personal vision.

I hope you all can share it at some point.

>From there I hope you all can continue building.

Regards and may the force be with us :D

2016-06-14 21:51 GMT+08:00 Dave Crossland :

> Hi
>
> There will be a  Sugar Labs Vision Discussion in about 6 hours via
> Google Hangouts:
>
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/c3qn7hksl71offj7jitkjb81aa4
>
> --
> Cheers
> Dave
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep




-- 
Laura V.
I SomosAZUCAR.Org

Identi.ca/Skype acaire
IRC kaametza

Happy Learning!
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sean DALY]

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 3:38 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> A brand that is not being diluted is stale, rigid, dying.



I completely disagree, but it doesn't matter.
Sean.
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[IAEP] Sugar Labs Vision Discussion in 6 hours

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

There will be a  Sugar Labs Vision Discussion in about 6 hours via
Google Hangouts:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/events/c3qn7hksl71offj7jitkjb81aa4

-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 14 June 2016 at 09:16, Sean DALY  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>> > That color combination has been very widely copied, even today.
>>
>> I think the amount of copying ought to be seen as a metrics of success
>> for a brand.
>
> Sure, except it dilutes the brand.

I am asserting that this dilution is a positive outcome - in the age
of cheap social media and memes, brands don't have control as they did
in the age of expensive mass media; and per the medium is the message
and all that, the new media environment changes the value of the
outcomes. A brand that is not being diluted is stale, rigid, dying.

>> > which is why I invested in the SL branded memory sticks
>
> At the time everyone clamored for several, to be
> distributed at conferences and such.

How much did you/we sell them for?

> This was over six years ago, so I probably wouldn't recommend the same
> supplier, better to start from scratch, especially since the payment to them
> was delayed at the time - if they remember our small order, it may not be
> fondly. The key criteria in my choice was that they were willing to do
> several color variants in the tiny run of 100 sticks, as a favor if we would
> bring subsequent business,

Cool :)

> which in the end didn't happen.

Yikes - why not?

>> > and had the beauty shots created at the time.
>>
>> Where are these located? :)
>
> wiki
> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Booth_Banners
>
> see for example:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8117064.stm

Nice!!
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sean DALY]

On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> > That color combination has been very widely copied, even today.
>
> I think the amount of copying ought to be seen as a metrics of success
> for a brand.
>

Sure, except it dilutes the brand.


>
>
> > which is why I invested in the SL branded memory sticks
>
> Cool! Do you still have any of those sticks left? Where did you get them
> made?
>
> I still have one or two. At the time everyone clamored for several, to be
distributed at conferences and such.

This was over six years ago, so I probably wouldn't recommend the same
supplier, better to start from scratch, especially since the payment to
them was delayed at the time - if they remember our small order, it may not
be fondly. The key criteria in my choice was that they were willing to do
several color variants in the tiny run of 100 sticks, as a favor if we
would bring subsequent business, which in the end didn't happen.


> > and had the beauty shots created at the time.
>
> Where are these located? :)


wiki
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Booth_Banners

see for example:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8117064.stm

Sean
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 14 June 2016 at 05:14, Sean DALY  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 6:21 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>> The green case is probably the most important thing, I think, because
>> of that brand equity
>
> The green and white case (perhaps with a "crank handle") is the only brand
> equity OLPC (and Sugar Labs) have.

Exactly! :)

> That color combination has been very widely copied, even today.

I think the amount of copying ought to be seen as a metrics of success
for a brand.

> It's always far easier to market an object than a virtual product such as
> software,

:D

> which is why I invested in the SL branded memory sticks

Cool! Do you still have any of those sticks left? Where did you get them made?

> and had the beauty shots created at the time.

Where are these located? :)

-- 
Cheers
Dave
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