Re: [IAEP] the SoaS term (was: Press release flurry planning...)
When trying to sell something (or give something away that people aren't familiar with) the simpler the story you have to tell the better. If I was telling this story I'd have the first reference to SoaS in and press release or whatever be: Sugar on a Stick from Sugar Labs After the first reference you can call it Sugar on a Stick or SoaS. Don't mention Fedora, or Linux, or Open Source, or Free Software or give it a cute code name, or mention that there are other ways of getting Sugar on a Stick. The kids will learn about all these things in time, but first we have to sell it to their parents and their teachers. What we consider freedom they consider being disorganized. James Simmons ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
[IAEP] the SoaS term (was: Press release flurry planning...)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 [cross-posting to match posting-style of what I respond to] On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 07:45:45PM +0200, David Van Assche wrote: can we please try and use the term SoaS slighlty more agnostically. Right now, every time its mentioned it always uses the Fedora backend without question or debate. I think of it a little like when someone says write me an office letter (and its quitely assumed by everyonen that they will be using Microsoft word for this) I spoke briefly to Sebastian about this and we suggestd, quite entertainingly: FedSoaS or SoaSora SuSoaS or SoaSuse GenSoaS or SoaS(t)oo DebSoaS or SoaSian ManSoaS or SoaSiva CaSoaS or SoaSica For me, I kind of like the last column Anyway, the point is not to tie SoaS to one distro... there are enough people willing to help for the different distros , and the more markets the better right? I completely disagree. To me, SoaS is a specific distribution coined by Sugar enthusiasts (who happen to also most/all of them also to be Sugar developers). This particular distribution is derived from Fedora. It might be that in the future they decide to switch to Ubuntu or OpenSuSe as platform for their development. It might also be that other distributions emerge based on other major distributions. Whatever happens, let each distribution choose their own name. Or discuss with them to change name - I really don't care. What concerns me is that Sugarlabs do not dictate naming of external projects. ...and now comes the fun part: Do Sugarlabs feel that SoaS is not external? I recomend to tream SoaS as a distribution, and I recommend Sugarlabs to leave the distribution task to others. Be friendly to any distribution that includes Sugar - sure - but don't take on that challenge yourself. There is plenty to do that is more Sugar-specific than dealing with boot loaders, kernels and (oh my) security bugs throughout thousands(!) of tiny little parts of what is contained in a fullblown distribution. Kind regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREDAAYFAko6hu0ACgkQn7DbMsAkQLh0uQCfWk73PmcSPNYkqrD0Xh7niBUE pHIAniwl+LFzF1/OVH32Jdk5kfuOwODB =fXTn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] the SoaS term (was: Press release flurry planning...)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 08:55:15PM +0200, David Van Assche wrote: The term SoaS actually came from the ubuntu derived Sugar on a stick. so by your logic, as it was 'coined' by an individual who chose to put sugar on a usb stick using ubuntu, who by the same logic is the sole owner and user of that term. No, by my logic we (Sugarlabs) would let the inventor (Ubuntu) and the user (some Sugarlabs developers making a Fedora-derived distribution) resolve that trademark dispute. If there is such dispute. I think that really hurts Sugar in general. If the distribution now known as Ubuntu had chosen to promote itself as Canonical Windows, then that would also theoretically hurt Gnome. But should Gnome step in when someone makes shitty naming choices for a distribution that happens to contain - maybe even emphasize as its primary content - the Gnome desktop? Should Sugarlabs do so for distributions containing Sugar? At events and conferences, when we choose to write these usb sticks or give out cdroms with sugar, the user should have a choice as to which underlying distro he wants to have (and yes it does make a difference), but it should still be called what it actualls is - Sugar on a usb stick. It should? Are Sugarlabs the word police? So when I say agnosticate the term, I mean use the term as it is semantically appropriate. Then be semantically correct and say SoaS is a distribution containing Sugar on a usb stick at conferences. SoaS might be an abbreviation of just that for you. It might be a brand of something specific for someone else. By your logic, all Live-CDs should use ix as suffix, as did the famous Knoppix. I don't buy that: Each Live-CD can choose their own name. I for one, will use that term to define openSUSE running as the base with sugar running on top of it, and will market it as such. But I will explain that it is available in multiple flavours I wish you all the best with that. I honestly mean that. But I recommend Sugarlabs to not adopt and govern your approach. On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Jonas Smedegaardd...@jones.dk wrote: Whatever happens, let each distribution choose their own name. Or discuss with them to change name - I really don't care. What concerns me is that Sugarlabs do not dictate naming of external projects. I don't really get what you mean here... ...and now comes the fun part: Do Sugarlabs feel that SoaS is not external? I don't get what is meant by this... can u elaborate? Hmmm - maybe I could, but I suspect that I am simply saying same points multiple times in different ways. So if you were puzzled only about those two sentences but understood the other parts of my mail, then I suggest you just skip it - I believe you are not missing anything. :-) I recomend to tream SoaS as a distribution, and I recommend Sugarlabs to leave the distribution task to others. Be friendly to any distribution that includes Sugar - sure - but don't take on that challenge yourself. There is plenty to do that is more Sugar-specific what challenge exactly? The challenge of maintaining a distribution (as opposed to maintaining an X11 desktop environment). Kind regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREDAAYFAko6nqkACgkQn7DbMsAkQLgKUQCfV6DZf5UM0yu4rNvK8E3zxnje uL0AmwR/BMuyBMvKyOcbYtKyhmzhDkIM =c645 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] the SoaS term (was: Press release flurry planning...)
Well, I'm not going to get dug deeper into a semantic discussion here. My only point, and I think its quite clear to most people is that the use of the words sugar on a stick are not solely the property of one distribution (fedora) and ought not to be coupled with just one distribution. It should (and this has nothing to do with word policing of any kind, as funny as that remark might be) describe the medium by which sugar is delivered (a usb stick) Nowhere is there any mention of something distro specific, nor should there be. The term itself is great to describe what it is... and other distribution packagers are bound to use the same terms, since it quite rightly describes the end product. Just as Sugar on a CD describes very well that product. Like someone else suggested, if one chooses to brand sugar on a stick for Fedora, they can come up with a mirriad of names, lollypop being one of them... I am actually quite surprised that this discussion is coming up on a mailing list that is very open source based. Taking ownership of a very generic term goes against the philosophy/politics of open source in general. Reminds me of the bbc's patent on urls... they were the first to use the term click on a link (and patenteted it) Regards, David Van Assche -- rest snipped for brevity -- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] the SoaS term (was: Press release flurry planning...)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: RIPEMD160 On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 10:28:09PM +0200, David Van Assche wrote: Nowhere is there any mention of something distro specific, nor should there be. Please leave it to each distribution to babtise their work. I am actually quite surprised that this discussion is coming up on a mailing list that is very open source based. Taking ownership of a very generic term goes against the philosophy/politics of open source in general. It is *not* about taking ownership. Quite the contrary: Feel free to babtise your SuSe-based work the exact same as that other work based on Fedora. The fact that I would not recommend you to do so is a different issue. What is relevant is that if you did create a different work and called it the same as the quite popular Fedora-based work, then I would not request Sugarlabs to agree on a set of words to encourage distribution makers to use. Sugarlabs makes Sugar. And defines terms for what they make. Let each distribution define terms for their works. That is freedom. Kind regards, - Jonas - -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist og Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEAREDAAYFAko6q0QACgkQn7DbMsAkQLjjRgCeL1Qkdnl+jHf5mj25FlCWn5lv SmQAn0Kcm4bd70cwJALXPqsW6ASg8RW2 =g59S -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
Re: [IAEP] the SoaS term (was: Press release flurry planning...)
On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 10:28:09PM +0200, David Van Assche wrote: [Sugar on a Stick] should [...] describe the medium by which sugar is delivered (a usb stick) Nowhere is there any mention of something distro specific, nor should there be. I'm amused that a few meme-weeks ago we had a discussion which implied the other side: Sugar on a Stick meant a solution including not only a specific distro's livecd .iso filesystem, but also a set of best practices for running a Sugar-based curriculum, Sugar documentation manuals, Sugar teacher training guidelines, XS-based (or -like) backup solution, wireless network topology guidelines, and educational theory suggestions. Quite the other side of a spectrum from some source code from git.sugarlabs.org put on a USB stick with no partition table, which I think you're saying is perfectly reasonable :). I am actually quite surprised that this discussion is coming up on a mailing list that is very open source based. Taking ownership of a very generic term goes against the philosophy/politics of open source in general. This has nothing to do with open source as defined by its creators: http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd . I think you're saying appropriating a general term to disenfranchise a constituency is unfair and inconsistent with everyone's peer-imposed duty to take a constructive, supportive, and inclusion-sensitive role in the community. We need inclusion but not at all cost. Regards, David Van Assche Martin pgpYKPQfpBE8a.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
