Re: CPU utilization/engine
How about simply allowing the customer/client installing the program to configure a target URL to a Web page that provides that information (and more)? One option is the z/OS Management Facility, which is available at no additional charge to every z/OS licensee. The z/OS MF's performance section can provide that information. (There are also REST APIs to perform tasks programmatically.) More information here: http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/zosmf/vxrx/index.jsp Or, in the alternative, the installer could choose to configure a URL pointing to a Tivoli Web page (e.g. Tivoli Business Service Manager), OMEGAMON, or your other favorite Web page. In other words, why put the burden on the application developer to reinvent something (poorly) that already exists (much better) in some fashion in 99.9+ percent of mainframe installations? Every non-trivial application has certain prerequisites, regardless of platform. So I see no distinction there. It'd be nice, on every platform, to include some sort of advisory message for the user. Something like, Caution: While this information is available to you, correct interpretation of this information requires expertise. Please consult with your system administrators for assistance in interpreting this information. Timothy Sipples Resident Enterprise Architect (Based in Singapore) E-Mail: timothy.sipp...@us.ibm.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CPU utilization/engine
Hi It was me, not Radoslav, who put this disputed question . The idea not from the z/OS side, but we have a client/server object oriented product, run in several platforms, and it has a feature to display the CPU utilization, disk-load, network-load etc. etc. So maybe the client user has no idea, where the server is running . So the guys from the PC , AIX development side asked if we can also produce this information. If you get a question like this, i.e it is possible in other platforms, you try to find a solution, in any means ... The first idea was, to get this information from RMF, but for this, it was necessary to activate the RMF data gathering, by the customers site. A while ago someone here , in the list , pointed to the RCT control blocks, and from the Resource Manager control blocks, it was simple to get the CPU utilization , and channel load. So we are here now, for me the main motivation, it is possible on other platforms, but if it is not possible, or not so simple, I will have no problem to say impossible. On 10/4/2011 6:40 PM, Ed Gould wrote: Radoslaw, What should have been asked is Why. Unless you are writing a performance monitor (again why) there is no likely reason as to why they need to know. There are a lot of people that think they need to know this type of info, especially application types who think they should programically be able to do better than Z/os does. It should be strongly discouraged as control blocks change and then the program becomes dependent on the then current level of the OS. It be ones a nightmare that will come back to haunt everyone and for no good reasons. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CPU utilization/engine
Miklos Szigetvari miklos.szigetv...@isis-papyrus.com wrote in message news:4e8c026c.1090...@isis-papyrus.com... Hi It was me, not Radoslav, who put this disputed question . The idea not from the z/OS side, but we have a client/server object oriented product, run in several platforms, and it has a feature to display the CPU utilization, disk-load, network-load etc. etc. So maybe the client user has no idea, where the server is running . So the guys from the PC , AIX development side asked if we can also produce this information. If you get a question like this, i.e it is possible in other platforms, you try to find a solution, in any means ... The first idea was, to get this information from RMF, but for this, it was necessary to activate the RMF data gathering, by the customers site. A while ago someone here , in the list , pointed to the RCT control blocks, and from the Resource Manager control blocks, it was simple to get the CPU utilization , and channel load. So we are here now, for me the main motivation, it is possible on other platforms, but if it is not possible, or not so simple, I will have no problem to say impossible. Or maybe it is different. Apparently on other platforms individual processor utilization means something (e.g. each process is dispatched on its own processor), in z/OS it does not since all processors are managed as one pool. Kees. On 10/4/2011 6:40 PM, Ed Gould wrote: Radoslaw, What should have been asked is Why. Unless you are writing a performance monitor (again why) there is no likely reason as to why they need to know. There are a lot of people that think they need to know this type of info, especially application types who think they should programically be able to do better than Z/os does. It should be strongly discouraged as control blocks change and then the program becomes dependent on the then current level of the OS. It be ones a nightmare that will come back to haunt everyone and for no good reasons. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CPU utilization/engine
Myklos, As others have said it is possible. The question is. What s this going to get the programmer outside of the ability to say x percent. Just ask why do they need it? Just to say so I can display it tell them that is why you have RMF and other tools that can do it ad it#39;s up to the performance person to provide numbers but only if there is a perceived issue. That s their bailiwick to decide if there really is an issue. I know you asked the question but some people are to ready to say yes without understanding the base issue. Way back in the 1970#39;s operators asked for a display for percent Busy for each job. What was really needed after talking with them was an exception display to show problem (problem areas) which had a lot of maybe#39;s and needed something like omegamon (or the like) not a specialized program. I was attempting to tell Radoslaw that context is everything. Some questions can be answered simply some like yours need more than a simple answer than he gave. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CPU utilization/engine
An easy way to get whatever metric(s) you're after, is to use the RMF DDS server to return the values via a simple http request. Although if you are saying you dont want to even enable RMF, that counts that option out. On 5 October 2011 17:45, Ed Gould ps2...@yahoo.com wrote: Myklos, As others have said it is possible. The question is. What s this going to get the programmer outside of the ability to say x percent. Just ask why do they need it? Just to say so I can display it tell them that is why you have RMF and other tools that can do it ad it's up to the performance person to provide numbers but only if there is a perceived issue. That s their bailiwick to decide if there really is an issue. I know you asked the question but some people are to ready to say yes without understanding the base issue. Way back in the 1970's operators asked for a display for percent Busy for each job. What was really needed after talking with them was an exception display to show problem (problem areas) which had a lot of maybe's and needed something like omegamon (or the like) not a specialized program. I was attempting to tell Radoslaw that context is everything. Some questions can be answered simply some like yours need more than a simple answer than he gave. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CPU utilization/engine
An easy way to get whatever metric(s) you're after, is to use the RMF DDS server to return the values via a simple http request. Although if you are saying you dont want to even enable RMF, that counts that option out. If you do not have RMF active then you cannot obtain any CPU statistics at all. SDSF (and OMEGAMON) do not calculate usage. They collect it from RMF. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
CPU utilization/engine
Hi Would like to see the CPU utilization /CPU engine. Any simple way to get this ? We use currently the RMCT and CCT (RM CPU Management Control Table) to get CPU utilization quickly. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CPU utilization/engine
W dniu 2011-10-04 16:06, Miklos Szigetvari pisze: Hi Would like to see the CPU utilization /CPU engine. Any simple way to get this ? IMHO quick and simple way is to use HMC. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00, fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2011 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.346.696 zotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CPU utilization/engine
On 10/4/2011 4:57 PM, R.S. wrote: W dniu 2011-10-04 16:06, Miklos Szigetvari pisze: Hi Would like to see the CPU utilization /CPU engine. Any simple way to get this ? IMHO quick and simple way is to use HMC. Hi I would need in a program -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CPU utilization/engine
Radoslaw, What should have been asked is Why. Unless you are writing a performance monitor (again why) there is no likely reason as to why they need to know. There are a lot of people that think they need to know this type of info, especially application types who think they should programically be able to do better than Z/os does. It should be strongly discouraged as control blocks change and then the program becomes dependent on the then current level of the OS. It be ones a nightmare that will come back to haunt everyone and for no good reasons. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CPU utilization/engine
On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 12:40 -0400, Ed Gould wrote: What should have been asked is Why. Sorry, why is none of our concern. It is sufficient that Miklos wants to know. -- David Andrews A. Duda Sons, Inc. david.andr...@duda.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CPU utilization/engine
David Andrews d...@lists.duda.com wrote in message news:1317753210.14315.21.ca...@chuck.duda.com... On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 12:40 -0400, Ed Gould wrote: What should have been asked is Why. Sorry, why is none of our concern. It is sufficient that Miklos wants to know. -- David Andrews Not entirely true IMHO. Miklos wants something, for which he wants this CPU info. He does not have to tell, but it might be useful to explain the underlying needs for this. Especially because of what he wants to conclude from these figures. Read the latest information about IRD, z196 Hiperdispatching and CPU books. WLM and PRSM are continually busy manipulating CPUs, parking them, grouping them together in order to reuse lvl1 and lvl2 cache, that one can hardly draw useful conclusions from the measured utilization of individual CPUs. With this in mind, asking what Miklos is trying to achieve is positive help and not minding his personel business. He is not obliged to answer of course. Kees. For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CPU utilization/engine
Besides, it's a capacity metric. Maybe not the best, but a start. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -Original Message- From: David Andrews d...@lists.duda.com Sender: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 14:33:30 To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: CPU utilization/engine On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 12:40 -0400, Ed Gould wrote: What should have been asked is Why. Sorry, why is none of our concern. It is sufficient that Miklos wants to know. -- David Andrews A. Duda Sons, Inc. david.andr...@duda.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CPU utilization/engine
W dniu 2011-10-04 18:40, Ed Gould pisze: Radoslaw, What should have been asked is Why. Unless you are writing a performance monitor (again why) there is no likely reason as to why they need to know. There are a lot of people that think they need to know this type of info, especially application types who think they should programically be able to do better than Z/os does. It should be strongly discouraged as control blocks change and then the program becomes dependent on the then current level of the OS. It be ones a nightmare that will come back to haunt everyone and for no good reasons. Ed, Miklos asked the question, and I answered. End of story. The answer was not useful, just because the question was not detailed enough, but there is still no reason to ask why. Now you know the details, I'd suggest to answer the question, to help Miklos, not ask why. However, in general, I agree there are situations where what's your goal is good question, because it WILL HELP the asking person. Example (not the best): what exit to use (or how to code the exit) to protect jobnames. Proper answer IMHO: just try to use JESJOBS. Sometimes one asks quite weird question, just because he THINKS he knows a solution for real (business) need. ANd we cannot answer the question (satisfactory), but we could suggest the solution, possibly quite easy and effective solution if we had knew the real need. Regards -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland P.S. Miklos - maybe there is some RMF API ? -- Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00, fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2011 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.346.696 zotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CPU utilization/engine
Ted, I normally do not respond but since you were not in the same tone as it usually is, I will say this. I have in the past run into seemingly bright programmers that were convinced that they knew better than MVS in how things should work. We had to fight tooth and nail to stop them. It#39;s amazing how political things get when an inflated ego gets involved and when politics get in a war. I had to get up and explain how MVS handles certain things (like performance decisions) in a meeting of vp#39;s And try and simplify it to the executive mind. I put up an old decision diagram(this was 30 years ago when it was complicated now it#39;s beyond complicated as we all know) but this was a political corporate meeting and the goal was to get some kind of decision made. Trying to stop a programmer to try and out guess how IBM does it#39;s thing. I guess the presentation I did worked as the programmer backed down and did his thing internally within the program . We no longer had to pretest his programs when we were testing MVS maintenance installs. It was a lot easier to do our job. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
