Re: 3277 terminals and emulators
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 04/29/2008 at 04:23 PM, Patrick O'Keefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I thought the AS/400 grew out of the 8100, No, the AS/400 grew out of the S/38 and the 8100 grew out of the 3790. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 3277 terminals and emulators
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 04/21/2008 at 02:14 PM, Steele, Phil [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Is the S/3 actually co-ax, or is it twin-ax like the s/34, s/38 /as/400 family that it spawned? I'd blame the S/34 on the S/3, but not the S/38. The S/38 was an outgrowth of the FS project. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 3277 terminals and emulators
On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:08:28 -0300, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Is the S/3 actually co-ax, or is it twin-ax like the s/34, s/38 /as/400 family that it spawned? I'd blame the S/34 on the S/3, but not the S/38. The S/38 was an outgrowth of the FS project. ... I thought the AS/400 grew out of the 8100, but I suppose it may have had mixed parentage. (Or I may be remembering wrong.) Pat O'Keefe -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 3277 terminals and emulators
I'd blame the S/34 on the S/3, but not the S/38. The S/38 was an outgrowth of the FS project. ... I thought the AS/400 grew out of the 8100, but I suppose it may have had mixed parentage. (Or I may be remembering wrong.) The FS project begat the System/38 The System/38 begat the AS/400 (Silverlake) circa 87? 88? However, IIRC at the time IBM claimed the AS/400 was able to run both S/36 and S/38 applications - typically RPG stuff anyway. CC -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 3277 terminals and emulators
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Patrick O'Keefe) writes: I thought the AS/400 grew out of the 8100, but I suppose it may have had mixed parentage. (Or I may be remembering wrong.) previous post in thread: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#9 3277 terminals and emulators the folklore is that after future system project was terminated http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#futuresys also this old post: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001f.html#33 some number retreated to rochester and did the s/38. i've claimed that somewhat in parallel, the 801/risc project went on ... with an objective of going to the exact opposite extreme of future system hardware complexity. http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#801 somewhere along the line, a project was started to replace the large variety of internal microprocessors with 801/risc. there was fort knox and iliad chips. One of these iliad efforts was to replace all the microprocessors in entry and mid-range 370s with (801/risc) iliad chips; the 4381 (4341 followon) microprocessor originally started out to be a iliad chip. iliad chip was also going to be used for the as/400 microprocessor (follow-on to the s/38). Both efforts were still born. Custom cisc chips were eventually done for both the 4381 as well as for the as/400. 8100 used a totally different chip, uc.5 ... significantly underpowered. there is old email about the MIT Lisp machine project asking IBM for 801/risc chips for their machine ... and being offered 8100 instead; old email reference: http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006c.html#email790711 in this post http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006c.html#3 Architectural support for programming languages as an aside ... at one point they sent my wife in to audit the 8100 effort and she recommended the whole thing be killed off. much later there was the power/pc project (i.e. somerset, joint with ibm, motorola, apple, et al) ... and as/400 finally did move off a cisc processor to 801/risc (power/pc). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 3277 terminals and emulators
No, will not work. It might work if you can connect the machine to a modem though. I believe he has a 15D model. Looks very familiar to me from 25+ years ago. Also the fact it wants 3340/3344 drives. There should be an I/O cage in the back with a bunch of BNC connectors for coax attached terminals. The terminal he is looking for would be used for the system console. IIRC, that may have a special connection in the side of the main frame. This console would also be used for system power on displays. 3420 tape drives, 1403 printers, and 1442 card reader/punchers would also work quite well. On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 23:20:01 -0500, Chase, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Shane On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 19:16 -0500, Michael Ross wrote: Folks, I'm in the process of powering-up my System/3: Sorry Mike, can't help. However I showed your web page page to my other half, who's always complaining about the amount of junk I have around the place. My comment: See, I ain't that bad Her comment: *THAT* is divorce material. I think she was trying to suggest I don't even think about heading down the same path... :0) How about a 3174-61R? Got one in the garage. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 3277 terminals and emulators
Mike, Sorry, can't help with 3340 info, but I am pretty sure that if you plugged in a 3277 model 2 ( much more common) It would electrically work ok. The fields displayed might be in the wrong place, but I think the S/3 should not know the difference. One point though... Is the S/3 actually co-ax, or is it twin-ax like the s/34, s/38 /as/400 family that it spawned? My two bob's worth, Phil Steele -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Ross Sent: Saturday, 19 April 2008 10:17 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: 3277 terminals and emulators Folks, I'm in the process of powering-up my System/3: http://www.corestore.org/3.htm One vital component I don't have is a console terminal. The System/3 uses a 3277 console - specifically, a 3277 Model 1 (yes, the 12 lines x 40 characters one!). So: 1. Does anyone reading this list have one, or have any leads on where one might be found? 2. Failing that, I'm looking for any 3rd party compatible terminals, or device combinations that could add up to 3277-1 compatibility. So far, the only leads I have are that the 3270 card in the XT/370 desktop mainframe machine did 3277 emulation - but I don't know if it supported Model 1 mode. Ditto for the 'Appleline' external 3270 box for early Mac amp; Lisa machines; again I've heard that supported 3277, but don't know about Model 1 specifically. What about the machine that was marketed as the XT/3270 - did that support 3277 Mod. 1, for instance? Any clues, leads, or suggestions would be most welcome! And, while I'm looking for desperately rare things, I'm also going to need 3340 disk drives at some point... anyone know where those might be found? Who made 100% plug-compatible 3340 clones? Thanks! Mike -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html *** PLEASE NOTE: This internet email message has been checked for viruses and appropriate content to ensure it complies with TABCORP's electronic communication policy. *** *** The information in this e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. The message and files may be protected by legal professional privilege, or other legal rules. The confidentiality of and privilege applying to this message and files is not waived if this message or files has been sent to you by mistake. If the reader of this message or files is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, distribution or copying of this message and files are strictly prohibited. If you receive this message or files in error, please notify us immediately by telephone or return e-mail and delete all copies from your computer system. It is the recipient's responsibility to check this message and files for viruses. Thank you. *** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 3277 terminals and emulators
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.comptuers as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Ross) writes: So far, the only leads I have are that the 3270 card in the XT/370 desktop mainframe machine did 3277 emulation - but I don't know if it supported Model 1 mode. Ditto for the 'Appleline' external 3270 box for early Mac amp; Lisa machines; again I've heard that supported 3277, but don't know about Model 1 specifically. the signals on the cable change between 3272/3277/ANR and 3274/3278/DCA (although 3274 supported the attachment of 3277) part of the difference was reducing the manufacturing costs of the terminal, they moved a lot of the electronics that had been in the 3277 head back into the controller. there had been some amount of work on modifying 3277 to improve the 3277 human factors ... which were then no longer possible with 3278 (since all the logic was now back in the controller). One of the issues was (because of the fundamental half-duplex) ... if you were typing when the system wrote to the head ... the keyboard would lockup and you needed to hit the reset key. A 3277 keystroke fifo was created that would handle the input/output sequencing and hold keystrokes in the buffer to avoid the keyboard lockup. Another was being able to modify the repeat key/delay timing to significantly increase the rate. another aspect was because so much processing had been moved back into the (3274) controller ... that interactions that were nearly instantaneous on 3272/3277 would be around 1/2 second on 3274/3278 ... making .25 second interactive response impossible the jokes at the time was that the data entry applications were fairly insensitive to system response and TSO with minimum of 1second response already never saw the difference. misc. past posts http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#17 3270 protocol http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001m.html#19 3270 protocol http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002k.html#6 IBM 327x terminals and controllers (was Re: Itanium2 power http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#0 were dumb terminals actually so dumb??? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007r.html#10 IBM System/3 3277-1 http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007t.html#40 Why isn't OMVS command integrated with ISPF? http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007t.html#42 What do YOU call the # sign? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 3277 terminals and emulators
On Fri, 2008-04-18 at 19:16 -0500, Michael Ross wrote: Folks, I'm in the process of powering-up my System/3: Sorry Mike, can't help. However I showed your web page page to my other half, who's always complaining about the amount of junk I have around the place. My comment: See, I ain't that bad Her comment: *THAT* is divorce material. I think she was trying to suggest I don't even think about heading down the same path... :0) Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
