Re: SMP/E packaging for RECEIVE ORDER?
And I note in this list perceptible enthusiasm for ShopZ, which I think embraces RECEIVE ORDER, but little enthusiasm for RECEIVE FROMNETWORK. I probably would have stated it the other way around: ShopzSeries embraces RECEIVE FROMNETWORK. RECEIVE ORDER and ShopzSeries don't really have much of a relationship, and in fact RECEIVE ORDER can be a bit of a replacement for ShopzSeries for PTF orders. For those who desire a bit more comparison, here is my nut shell's worth: ShopzSeries is an ordering portal for (1) individual products in CBPDO form, (2) system replace offerings like ServerPac, and (3) PTFs. To take delivery over the Internet of an order placed in Shopz, you can use SMP/E RECEIVE FROMNETWORK. RECEIVE FROMNETWORK drives the FTP operation to download the order files to z/OS. (For ServerPac orders you don't use the SMP/E RECEIVE FROMNETWORK command, but instead the ServerPac install dialog uses an SMP/E service routine, GIMGTPKG, which does essentially the same thing as RECEIVE FROMNETWORK.) SMP/E RECEIVE ORDER on the other hand is a logical combination of both ShopzSeries and RECEIVE FROMNETWORK. That is, RECEIVE ORDER is an ordering portal (albeit only for PTFs and HOLDDATA) AND it drives the FTP operation to download the order's files, all in one fell swoop. snip Do customers in any substantial number download directly to z/OS? My perception is they download to desktops and FTP/Samba/IND$FILE to z/OS. Yes I believe a significant number do download directly to z/OS, even using RECEIVE FROMNETWORK, although folks on this list can speak for themselves since I don't have actual numbers to share. snip Why did IBM choose to use HTTPS for RECEIVE ORDER rather than staying with a uniform FTP protocol? When RECEIVE ORDER was being architected, new(er) technologies on the server side dictated HTTPS (read: web services). The existing FTP infrastructure for file download was chosen, well, because it was existing (if it ain't broke...). Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, SMP/E Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SMP/E packaging for RECEIVE ORDER?
Gil, Just curious... Have you seen customer interest in the use of RECEIVE FROMNETWORK for ISV software products? When it was first introduced, we expected to eventually see customer requests, but I've not seen any such requests. Ralph -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SMP/E packaging for RECEIVE ORDER?
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Ralph_Robison Gil, Just curious... Have you seen customer interest in the use of RECEIVE FROMNETWORK for ISV software products? When it was first introduced, we expected to eventually see customer requests, but I've not seen any such requests. You probably will -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SMP/E packaging for RECEIVE ORDER?
In a recent note, Ralph_Robison said: Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:28:16 -0600 Just curious... Have you seen customer interest in the use of RECEIVE FROMNETWORK for ISV software products? When it was first introduced, we expected to eventually see customer requests, but I've not seen any such requests. Frankly, surprisingly little interest. It appears customers are equally satisfied to download SYSMODs to their desktops via HTTP; FTP/Samba/IND$FILE to z/OS and RECEIVE with SMPPTFIN a PS dataset (do any RECEIVE from an NFS filesystem mounted on both desktop and z/OS?) Would customers prefer RELFILEs in TSO TRANSMIT to the better-supported FROMNETWORK format? I have no information. Nor do I know whether the apathy arises from simple inertia, from security barriers to mainframe Internet connectivity, or from other concerns. Reading this list I believe I perceive considerable interest in ShopZ. Is this because ShopZ offers significant additional automation over bare FROMNETWORK? What do the customers say? The UG for SMP/E hints that there are Java classes to support HTTPS client implementation. Would these suport single-step download and installation of SYSMODs with inline elements from an HTTPS server? I know of no ISV nor customer who has implemented any such tool. -- gil -- StorageTek INFORMATION made POWERFUL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SMP/E packaging for RECEIVE ORDER?
From Ralph Robison: snip Just curious... Have you seen customer interest in the use of RECEIVE FROMNETWORK for ISV software products? When it was first introduced, we expected to eventually see customer requests, but I've not seen any such requests. /snip It would be goodness to be able to do this, but, our experiences with vendor SMP/E expertise leads me to believe that most vendors would be hard pressed to get it right. Perhaps the larger vendor shops could make it work. Jon L. Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] (860) 636-2683 - This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SMP/E packaging for RECEIVE ORDER?
I would and tried it with a vendor that said they could in their doc but the function had been removed from the website (supposed to be back sometime). For smaller packages such as maintenance the current options are fine but I like FROMNETWORK for products. Alan Schwartz Assurant Shared Business Services Ralph_Robison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU 03/07/2007 07:28 AM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU cc Subject Re: SMP/E packaging for RECEIVE ORDER? Gil, Just curious... Have you seen customer interest in the use of RECEIVE FROMNETWORK for ISV software products? When it was first introduced, we expected to eventually see customer requests, but I've not seen any such requests. Ralph -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html ** This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information intended solely for the use of the addressee(s). If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying, forwarding or other use of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message and all copies and backups thereof. Thank you. ** -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SMP/E packaging for RECEIVE ORDER?
While the SMP/E RM describes GIMZIP, the utility used to package for RECEIVE FROMNETWORK, I find no similar assistance for packaging for RECEIVE ORDER. Have I simply overlooked it, or has IBM made a business decision not to support ISVs in supplying that format? The format of the downloadable files is the same for RECEIVE FROMNET and RECEIVE ORDER. That is, both expect to handle GIMZIP format packages. However, I'm curious why you ask such a question. Do you hope to implement your own Automated Delivery Request server which SMP/E RECEIVE ORDER can communicate with and request your PTFs? Kurt Quackenbush -- IBM, SMP/E Development -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SMP/E packaging for RECEIVE ORDER?
Setting Reply-to: -- I'll summarize and attribute replies, if any. In a recent note, Kurt Quackenbush said: Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 11:08:03 -0500 The format of the downloadable files is the same for RECEIVE FROMNET and RECEIVE ORDER. That is, both expect to handle GIMZIP format packages. However, I'm curious why you ask such a question. Do you hope to implement your own Automated Delivery Request server which SMP/E RECEIVE ORDER can communicate with and request your PTFs? Always doing feasibility studies; how can we better serve our customers? And I note in this list perceptible enthusiasm for ShopZ, which I think embraces RECEIVE ORDER, but little enthusiasm for RECEIVE FROMNETWORK. And: Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 11:15:04 -0500 Subject: Download z/OS software protocols (was SMP/E packaging for RECEIVE ORDER?) Utilization and support of FTP are generally waning outside IBM. Really? Why? If not FTP, then what is the desired method for downloading products, PTFs, and HOLDDATA directly to a z/OS system from an Internet server? Do customers in any substantial number download directly to z/OS? My perception is they download to desktops and FTP/Samba/IND$FILE to z/OS. Survey question: What do you do? 1. Download directly to z/OS a. FTP (what client?) b. Other (specify) 2. Download to desktop, and then to z/OS: a. FTP b. Samba c. IND$FILE d. NFS e. Other (specify) 3. RECEIVE FROMNETWORK 4. RECEIVE ORDER 5. Tape. HTTP(S) Rules the Universe! Many sites are idling down their FTP support while FTP flourishes. I can think of a couple reasons, good but not overpowering: o The specification of FTP is incomplete in that it doesn't define the format of the replies to the LIST and NLST commands, making automated navigation of FTP sites difficult for clients, which must implement parsers for the reply formats of all supported servers. I suspect many readers of this list felt frustration at FTP clients that can't navigate z/OS sites because they expect replies in the format of the UNIX ls command. o The security features of HTTPS. Why did IBM choose to use HTTPS for RECEIVE ORDER rather than staying with a uniform FTP protocol? If there were a suitable HTTP(S) client on z/OS, or if SMP/E extended its current client (today used soley for communications with the Automated Delivery Request server during RECEIVE ORDER processing), would that fare better than FTP? If so, why? It's admittedly a supplier-side issue. As infrastructure support for FTP servers dwindles, vendor engineering departments that would like to provide IBM formats confront IS departments that say, We'll only support HTTPS; why can't you use that? -- gil -- StorageTek INFORMATION made POWERFUL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SMP/E packaging for RECEIVE ORDER?
Survey question: What do you do? 1. Download directly to z/OS a. FTP (what client?) Only APARs in very critical situations. b. Other (specify) 2. Download to desktop, and then to z/OS: NO a. FTP b. Samba c. IND$FILE d. NFS e. Other (specify) 3. RECEIVE FROMNETWORK - Yes 4. RECEIVE ORDER - Yes 5. Tape. NO, tax inplications. Jon L. Veilleux [EMAIL PROTECTED] (860) 636-2683 - - This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SMP/E packaging for RECEIVE ORDER?
We would be interested in any of our current vendors providing a similar service to RECEIVE ORDER. Currently we pull maintenance from IBM on an almost nightly basis and would love to have the same capability with our other vendors. (Just cos we receive it doesn't mean it needs to be applied !) It allows us to have all PTF's in a chain already on the system if an emergency fix is required and to see what outstanding fixes are out there. However the vendors would also have to assign relevant holddata, sourceid and PE type information just as IBM does. We do however normally run a Quarterly RSU -1 maintenance philosophy for normal activities . Jerry Whitteridge Safeway Inc 925 951 4184 -Original Message- In a recent note, Ralph_Robison said: Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:28:16 -0600 Just curious... Have you seen customer interest in the use of RECEIVE FROMNETWORK for ISV software products? When it was first introduced, we expected to eventually see customer requests, but I've not seen any such requests. Frankly, surprisingly little interest. It appears customers are equally satisfied to download SYSMODs to their desktops via HTTP; -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html MMS safeway.com made the following annotations. -- Warning: All e-mail sent to this address will be received by the Safeway corporate e-mail system, and is subject to archival and review by someone other than the recipient. This e-mail may contain information proprietary to Safeway and is intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s). If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient(s), you are notified that you have received this message in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately. == -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SMP/E packaging for RECEIVE ORDER?
Survey question: What do you do? 1. Download directly to z/OS a. FTP (what client?) - z/OS FTP for lots and lots of stuff b. Other (specify) 2. Download to desktop, and then to z/OS: yes but only when there is no choice - some vendors force you to download via HTTPS or HTTP and don't give you an FTP site to download from directly to z/OS. a. FTP - yes...down to PC via whatever web method the vendor imposes and then FTP up to the host. b. Samba c. IND$FILE d. NFS e. Other (specify) 3. RECEIVE FROMNETWORK - Yes 4. RECEIVE ORDER - Yes 5. Tape - last choice but some vendors don't give a choice still... Dan Little RBC Financial Group Toronto, ON - - This e-mail may contain confidential or privileged information. If you think you have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this e-mail immediately. Thank you. Aetna -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html ___ This e-mail may be privileged and/or confidential, and the sender does not waive any related rights and obligations. Any distribution, use or copying of this e-mail or the information it contains by other than an intended recipient is unauthorized. If you received this e-mail in error, please advise me (by return e-mail or otherwise) immediately. Ce courrier électronique est confidentiel et protégé. L'expéditeur ne renonce pas aux droits et obligations qui s'y rapportent. Toute diffusion, utilisation ou copie de ce message ou des renseignements qu'il contient par une personne autre que le (les) destinataire(s) désigné(s) est interdite. Si vous recevez ce courrier électronique par erreur, veuillez m'en aviser immédiatement, par retour de courrier électronique ou par un autre moyen. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SMP/E packaging for RECEIVE ORDER?
Survey question: What do you do? 1. Download directly to z/OS a. FTP (what client?) b. Other (specify) a) - almost always (z/OS FTP). 2. Download to desktop, and then to z/OS: a. FTP b. Samba c. IND$FILE d. NFS e. Other (specify) a) - only when 1 a) not available. 3. RECEIVE FROMNETWORK 4. RECEIVE ORDER 5. Tape. IBM never - ISV often as some seen incapable of understanding any request for *mainframe* updates. We have licenses for some products on both big iron and toy server boxes. Two ISVs have recently provided Windoze maint when asked for z/OS. I re-ordered and demanded 3490 so they might put some thought into it. And they expect payment for (so called) support - sheesh. There is also issues with getting holes punched in firewalls. My latest attempt to download MXG failed as Barry now seems to use a different IP than last time. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: SMP/E packaging for RECEIVE ORDER?
On Mar 7, 2007, at 7:52 AM, Veilleux, Jon L wrote: -SNIP--- It would be goodness to be able to do this, but, our experiences with vendor SMP/E expertise leads me to believe that most vendors would be hard pressed to get it right. Perhaps the larger vendor shops could make it work. Well you can't get much larger than CA and they still can't get SMPe to work right on a single fix what makes you think they can get it right another way? Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
