Re: Recommend Coax-Attached Consoles?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 05/21/2007 at 10:42 PM, R.S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: 10. What does it mean ? Mainframe layout ? Converged keyboard, of course. Northgate used to offer one with a PS/2 connection, but I don't know who has them these days. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Recommend Coax-Attached Consoles?
Bob wrote: Hi, We are planning on replacing some of our *very* old operator's consoles (IBM 3471's) with something a bit newer and I am trying to identify products that might work for us. We support a *lot* of separate MVS VM images (50 or more) and have switched to Visara boxes to replace most of our controllers. This has allowed us to combine multiple consoles on one terminal and we would like to better exploit that capability. Visara sells some powerful 327x replacements that come with the correct 3270 keyboard and can connect via coax while still supporting multiple sessions, etc. For example, http://www.visara.com/maindocs/DSheet/dsUCT_92906.pdf -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Recommend Coax-Attached Consoles?
Let's see if I can reply to everyone at once: Ken – thanks for the info. However, we are trying to move to some sort of newer technology. We have lots of the old stuff. In particular, we want the multiple-sessions-on-one-display capability. Ed/Glenn – So far, the Visara UTC-L is the one box we are considering. I'm trying to find out if people who have them are happy with them and, also, what competing products are out there. And Glenn – thanks for the feedback on the Visara terminals. They are our current best choice so I am happy to see that you like them. Radoslaw Glenn – let's see if I can answer your questions somewhat together: 1. Why coax and not Ethernet? Primary, the ethernet network and switches are out of our control. If we have a network outage we do *not* want to lose all of the consoles to 50+ MVS images all at the same time! We are in an old building already replete with a coax infrastructure so it works for us. In other places in the building we rely on baluns. If something goes wrong with any of that it affects only one terminal at a time, not everything together. 2. Our HMC's SE's are on the corporate ethernet network. We recognize that as an exposure. However, our need to access the HMC's is somewhat limited and the SE's for the processor are directly accessible by simply walking into the computer room. 3. Windows vs. Linux vs. something else – We are trying to avoid Windows for a multitude of reasons – virii, updates, licensing, lack of support, to name a few. We want these to be consoles and just consoles. Operations will have PC's available that will allow them to log onto TSO, read email, and do general office stuff. That is not what these machines will be for. The reason I am asking my questions is to see if anyone is familiar with any new devices that are still primarily MVS consoles. As for Linux, that is not as big of a concern, but for longevity we would prefer a box that does not have moving parts like a hard drive. 4. The 10 sessions 4 sessions are for two different situations. The consoles I'm looking for are primarily for the 4 session capability. I want to help the operators to see 4 sessions on one screen. The 10 is the total number of sessions that can be configured on one coax on the Visara controllers. We would like these consoles to support this capability as well. 5. The keyboard issue is again because these are consoles. If we can get console-type keyboards for them then that is a good thing. 6. The no mouse is again because these are meant to be consoles. We are trying to put a lot of these in one place and mice just take up a lot of desktop real estate for no reason. 7. One of our options is to stay just the way we are. However, after 15-20 years the keyboards and monitors on IBM 3471's start to get a little worn out so hopefully we will find a good alternative for the future. Thanks everyone! Bob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Recommend Coax-Attached Consoles?
Bob wrote: 7.One of our options is to stay just the way we are. However, after 15-20 years the keyboards and monitors on IBM 3471's start to get a little worn out so hopefully we will find a good alternative for the future. We use the Visara coax-attached consoles and they seem to do the job nicely. But, we run an almost completely lights-out shop so they don't get a lot of use. I suggest you try to replace just one console and see how your operators like it. They're not expensive. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Recommend Coax-Attached Consoles?
In a message dated 5/22/2007 2:14:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: nicely. But, we run an almost completely lights-out shop so they don't get a lot of use. I suggest you try to replace just one console and see how your operators like it. They're not expensive. It's been so long. Think we used these for multi-session. Went with the last throws of INFO-Window with a SVGA output and Dell 17 monitors for Hard consoles. Then all the thick glassed gray haired folks retired... _http://www.insync3270.com/Terminal.htm_ (http://www.insync3270.com/Terminal.htm) ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Recommend Coax-Attached Consoles?
Hi, We are planning on replacing some of our *very* old operator's consoles (IBM 3471's) with something a bit newer and I am trying to identify products that might work for us. We support a *lot* of separate MVS VM images (50 or more) and have switched to Visara boxes to replace most of our controllers. This has allowed us to combine multiple consoles on one terminal and we would like to better exploit that capability. I think our requirements are very simple: o the simpler, and more traditional console-like, the better o we want consoles and no other functionality o we do not want anything Windows-based o preferably without any sort of hard drive or other failure-prone components o all of the terminals will be connected to Visara boxes o they need to be coax-attached (we do not want to be at the mercy of our IP network.) o they should be able to display multiple sessions (max 4) concurrently for operator monitoring o they should be able to support multiple sessions (10) that the Visara controllers allow us to put on one coax o must work with LCD screens o support standard mainframe keyboard o no mouse required o something that will last us another 15-20 years like the 3471's did o we are considering Visara's UTC-L devices (any experience with them?) Any other suggestions on devices that you use and like? Bob Sun Microsystems (StorageTek) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Recommend Coax-Attached Consoles?
Bob wrote: [...] I think our requirements are very simple: o the simpler, and more traditional console-like, the better o we want consoles and no other functionality o we do not want anything Windows-based o preferably without any sort of hard drive or other failure-prone components o all of the terminals will be connected to Visara boxes o they need to be coax-attached (we do not want to be at the mercy of our IP network.) o they should be able to display multiple sessions (max 4) concurrently for operator monitoring o they should be able to support multiple sessions (10) that the Visara controllers allow us to put on one coax o must work with LCD screens o support standard mainframe keyboard o no mouse required o something that will last us another 15-20 years like the 3471's did o we are considering Visara's UTC-L devices (any experience with them?) Any other suggestions on devices that you use and like? I think, your requirements are not possible to fit: (the answer are 1:1 with the requirements) 1. There are no more traditional consoles. Of course, many 3278-like are still in use, but you cannot buy anything new. 2. OK 3. If you want something brand-new (not from second-hand), then you have very limited choice: Windows-based PC or Linux-based PC (rare). 4. See above. PCs are not so failure-prone, I buried more terminals than PCs in my operations room. YMMV. 5. Well. Don't ask us, read Visara documentation or ask Visara guy... 6. NO WAY. Maybe Visara still support it, but no one else. Any COAX-based device belong to history. BTW: You can have your own *physically separated* ethernet newtork. The protocol would be TCP?IP, but it doesn't hurt. Eth. switch (good one) costs less than $100. 7. You can have multiple sessions on any PC. As much as you want. 8. 10 or 4 ? 9. Every current PC does work with LCD. 10. What does it mean ? Mainframe layout ? Well, you can simply map the keys as you want, or buy a keyboard looking like real mainframe keyboard. The keyboard costs approx. $100-200, while regular PC-keyboard approx. $10. 11. OK, no mouse. THe price will be a little bit higher - special requirement vbg 12. One of my PC's works as a console/terminal for 8 years. I've got it from someone, who disposed old equipment. Pentium 166. Still working. But seriously: Nobody could give you such warranty. Lifetime in IT is much shorter. In general you have three choices: 1. Simply agree with nowadays world, forget about COAX, hard terminals and start using PC, ethernet, etc. 2. Buy some equipment on second hand market. It could be set of 3174's, 2074's (it is PC and supports ethernet connections only) or Visara's and some 3278 hard terminals. 3. Do nothing and live with your equipment as 10 years ago. HTH -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2007 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci opacony) wynosi 118.064.140 z. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchwa XVI WZ z dnia 21.05.2003 r., kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA moe ulec podwyszeniu do kwoty 118.760.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym bd w caoci opacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Recommend Coax-Attached Consoles?
Hi Bob, We use VISARA's SCON-22L controllers that have both COAX and Ethernet connections. We needed the COAX attachment to connect to the SUN ( STK ) 9310 SILOs as we didn't have the budget for the STK Ethernet LMU attachments ( we have 4 STK LMU units ). When we acquired the VISARA SCON-22L controllers in 2004, we had many of the requirements you listed. In particular, NO PC-based console devices, especially Windows-based. So we acquired the VISARA NCT console terminals ( over 40 ). Some of them we ordered with COAX cards in the NCT console, however, every NCT comes with an Ethernet connection standard. On day 1, we were able to replace our IBM 3174 console controllers with the SCON-22Ls with little effort. Literally, on day 2, we were able to replace our aging IBM 3471 dumb terminals with the COAX NCTs with even less effort. If we had acquired additional Ethernet- based LUs on our SCON-22Ls, we would have converted the COAX NCTs to Ethernet long ago. So far, the NCTs have performed as VISARA advertises and they meet some of the requirements you have: No Hard Disk, Not Windows-based, etc. I am curious why you feel you must have COAX to avoid the company LAN/WAN. The reason I ask is I assume you have one or more z800/z900/z890/z990 processor(s) ( or even 9672s ). I also assume you have one or more IBM Hardware Management Console(s) that are connected to those processor(s). Lastly, I hope you have the HMC(s) and the processor (s) 'attached' to each other via an Ethernet 'private' ( our network folks preferred the term 'limited access ' ) LAN. If all the above is true, then you have the same 'basic' setup that we had back in 2004. We simply replaced the IBM-supplied Ethernet HUBs with a couple of CISCO Ethernet switches and connected the Ethernet NCTs, VISARA SCON-22Ls and other Ethernet equipment to these switches. As far as the corporate network was concerned, this 'private network' didn't exist. In our case, this didn't last long ( a couple of months ) because of a requirement to support a 'dual command center' configuration. In that case, this 'private' LAN was changed to a 'limited access' LAN by placing a CISCO Router between the CISCO Ethernet switches and the company LAN/WAN at each site. An 'access list' was added to each router so that the 'private' LAN segment at one location could contact any device with the 'private' LAN segment at the other location. To this day, this all works the way it is suppose to. The only times we have ever experienced any problems with this configuration is when the network folks modify the 'access list' in those routers. Feel free to contact me off-list if you have any questions regarding this info. Glenn Miller -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
