Re: Specialty Engine Prices
STOP, Ed! It's too hard to clean the morning coffee off the keyboard. :-) Cheers,,,Steve Steve Conway Lead Systems Programmer Information Systems Services Division Computer Network Operations Phone: (703) 450-3156 Fax:(703) 450-3197 Edward Jaffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU 04/14/2008 05:43 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU cc Subject Re: Specialty Engine Prices Ted MacNEIL wrote: I was quoted a list price of (IIRC) $250K for an ICF, while zIIPs were priced at $95K, and I had quite a discussion with them on the matter. At the last presentation I was at (about a year ago), I was told they were all the same, IIRC. But, I could be wrong. An ICF costs more than other specialty engines. (I double-checked with my rep last week on this.) I presume the reason is that an ICF engine has more moving parts and precision components forged from precious metals -- requiring higher manufacturing costs. These costs are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices... :-D ;-) O:-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of William H. Blair Edward E Jaffe wrote: I presume the reason is that an ICF engine has more moving parts and precision components forged from precious metals -- requiring higher manufacturing costs. These costs are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices... :-D ;-) O:-) Ed, I've met you. Your cheeks are of insufficient size to get your tongue in either one of them that far. You certainly already know the reason ICF engines are more expensive is that the collision insurance rates are up for the newest, faster models. And all this time I thought it was because the electrons in the ICFs require advanced, specialized training. Higher education = higher salary. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yes, I am absolutely sure. I was quoted a list price of (IIRC) $250K for an ICF, while zIIPs were priced at $95K, and I had quite a discussion with them on the matter. Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4/12/2008 5:08 AM The list prices for IFL, zIIP zAAP have no bearing on ICF. IBM charges more for an ICF than the other specialty engines, and I'm not sure that the free upgrade applies either. Are you sure? The whole pricing algorithm started with ICF's (the first specialty engine). But, I can't find the doc. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Note that my email domain has changed from jo-annstores.com to joann.com. Please update your address book and other records to reflect this change. CONFIDENTIALITY/EMAIL NOTICE: The material in this transmission contains confidential and privileged information intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this material in error and that any forwarding, copying, printing, distribution, use or disclosure of the material is strictly prohibited. If you have received this material in error, please (i) do not read it, (ii) reply to the sender that you received the message in error, and (iii) erase or destroy the material. Emails are not secure and can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices
I was quoted a list price of (IIRC) $250K for an ICF, while zIIPs were priced at $95K, and I had quite a discussion with them on the matter. At the last presentation I was at (about a year ago), I was told they were all the same, IIRC. But, I could be wrong. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices
Ted MacNEIL wrote: I was quoted a list price of (IIRC) $250K for an ICF, while zIIPs were priced at $95K, and I had quite a discussion with them on the matter. At the last presentation I was at (about a year ago), I was told they were all the same, IIRC. But, I could be wrong. An ICF costs more than other specialty engines. (I double-checked with my rep last week on this.) I presume the reason is that an ICF engine has more moving parts and precision components forged from precious metals -- requiring higher manufacturing costs. These costs are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices... :-D ;-) O:-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices
Edward E Jaffe wrote: I presume the reason is that an ICF engine has more moving parts and precision components forged from precious metals -- requiring higher manufacturing costs. These costs are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices... :-D ;-) O:-) Ed, I've met you. Your cheeks are of insufficient size to get your tongue in either one of them that far. You certainly already know the reason ICF engines are more expensive is that the collision insurance rates are up for the newest, faster models. -- WB gdr -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices
William H. Blair wrote: ... You certainly already know the reason ICF engines are more expensive is that the collision insurance rates are up for the newest, faster models. Bill, I was not aware of that! I knew there had to be a logical rationale behind the higher ICF price. (I was starting to wonder if maybe ICFs had more imported oil in them than the other specialty engines.) Thanks for clearing that up! -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question)
The list prices for IFL, zIIP zAAP have no bearing on ICF. IBM charges more for an ICF than the other specialty engines, and I'm not sure that the free upgrade applies either. Are you sure? The whole pricing algorithm started with ICF's (the first specialty engine). But, I can't find the doc. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question)
It certainly was hard to find, but I finally did find a reference to carrying forward your specialty engines when you get a newer technology machine. Here is the full path (watch the wrap): ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/software/ae/events/doc/system_z/1 0_when_the_mainframe_is_the_cheapest_v3.9_for_europe_q1.pdf or with a TinyURL: http://preview.tinyurl.com/695er3 The top chart on page 16 has free upgrade to next generation. Al Sherkow, I/S Management Strategies, Ltd. Consulting Expertise on Capacity Planning, Performance Tuning, WLC, LPARs, IRD and LCS Software Seminars on IBM SW Pricing, LPARs, and IRD Voice: +1 414 332-3062 Web: www.sherkow.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question)
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Timothy Sipples Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 11:58 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question) John McKown writes: Hum, then I wonder why when we went from a z890 to a z9BC, I lost my IFL? No, I'm not going to complain. I don't much care anymore. Did someone tell IBM to turn it off? That is a choice. The only reason I can think of off the top of my head that someone might do that is that the IFL has a (very small) hardware maintenance charge associated with it after the warranty period. If it's totally idle then someone might object to the maintenance charge, although that probably doesn't explain why it went missing during the warranty period. But you might still have rights to an IFL, John, so I'd dig around a bit to figure out what happened to it and maybe have a chat with someone on why they're turning off hardware you already own and paying for, say, another 100 distributed servers that you don't. - - - - - Timothy Sipples Thanks for the information. I might ask my manager. But I might not because the mainframe is going away. We don't know when or how, but it is now company dogma and may NOT be questioned. (my karma just ran over your dogma). -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question)
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of McKown, John [ snip ] Thanks for the information. I might ask my manager. But I might not because the mainframe is going away. We don't know when ... Second Tuesday of next week is usually as good a prediction as any.. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question)
Edward Jaffe wrote: John McKown wrote: We pressed for a parallel sysplex, but it was too expensive and not worth the cost ($175,000 US for a CFL was what I was told we were quoted. Firm price, no futher discounts, pay up or forget it.) ITYM an ICF not CFL (Canadian Football League). $175K seems way too high to me. Are these Canadian dollars? According to the IBM System z9 Business Class FAQ, the list prices for zIIP, zAAP, and IFL are $95000 (see under Z9 BC Pricing on page 34 of 95). http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/fcgi-bin/ssialias?infotype=PMsubtype=RGappname=STG_ZS_USENhtmlfid=ZSQ02226USENattachment=ZSQ02226USEN.PDF http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:lcVSMI0VjMkJ:www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/z9bc/zsq02226_usen_02.pdf To find it yourself, go to http://www.ibm.com/systems/z/hardware/z9bc/index.html and click on z9 BC FAQ under Learn More... Industry articles and postings similar to these: http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:E2cmOKYHjcgJ:www.arcati.com/z9bc.pdf http://www.mail-archive.com/ibm-main@bama.ua.edu/msg31602.html confirm this pricing. They also indicate the ICF is $125000. Someone needs to take a second look at this. And remember, unlike general CPs, specialty engines are carried forward for life. Specifically, if you buy an ICF now, you will get one included, at no extra charge, on every replacement/upgrade System z processor you purchase from IBM in the future. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question)
Hi Ed, Re. you saying: . And remember, unlike general CPs, specialty engines are carried forward for life. Specifically, if you buy an ICF now, you will get one included, at no extra charge, on every replacement/upgrade System z processor you purchase from IBM in the future. Is this true too for zIIPs zAAPs? I suppose it's not for IFLs? Jan -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question)
Is this true too for zIIPs zAAPs? I suppose it's not for IFLs? It's true for all the specialty engines. The arrangement came out before zIIPs zAAPs and was originally announced for IFLs. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question)
Hi Ted (and/or Ed), Is this documented somewhere in an official IBM document? jan - Oorspronkelijk bericht - Van: Ted MacNEIL [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Verzonden: maandag, april 7, 2008 12:05 PM Aan: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Onderwerp: Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question) Is this true too for zIIPs zAAPs? I suppose it's not for IFLs? It's true for all the specialty engines. The arrangement came out before zIIPs zAAPs and was originally announced for IFLs. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question)
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 5:06 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question) Is this true too for zIIPs zAAPs? I suppose it's not for IFLs? It's true for all the specialty engines. The arrangement came out before zIIPs zAAPs and was originally announced for IFLs. - Hum, then I wonder why when we went from a z890 to a z9BC, I lost my IFL? No, I'm not going to complain. I don't much care anymore. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question) [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The list prices for IFL, zIIP zAAP have no bearing on ICF. IBM charges more for an ICF than the other specialty engines, and I'm not sure that the free upgrade applies either. Edward Jaffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4/7/2008 2:54 AM Edward Jaffe wrote: John McKown wrote: We pressed for a parallel sysplex, but it was too expensive and not worth the cost ($175,000 US for a CFL was what I was told we were quoted. Firm price, no futher discounts, pay up or forget it.) ITYM an ICF not CFL (Canadian Football League). $175K seems way too high to me. Are these Canadian dollars? According to the IBM System z9 Business Class FAQ, the list prices for zIIP, zAAP, and IFL are $95000 (see under Z9 BC Pricing on page 34 of 95). http://www.ibm.com/common/ssi/fcgi-bin/ssialias?infotype=PMsubtype=RGappname=STG_ZS_USENhtmlfid=ZSQ02226USENattachment=ZSQ02226USEN.PDF http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:lcVSMI0VjMkJ:www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/z9bc/zsq02226_usen_02.pdf To find it yourself, go to http://www.ibm.com/systems/z/hardware/z9bc/index.html and click on z9 BC FAQ under Learn More... Industry articles and postings similar to these: http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:E2cmOKYHjcgJ:www.arcati.com/z9bc.pdf http://www.mail-archive.com/ibm-main@bama.ua.edu/msg31602.html confirm this pricing. They also indicate the ICF is $125000. Someone needs to take a second look at this. And remember, unlike general CPs, specialty engines are carried forward for life. Specifically, if you buy an ICF now, you will get one included, at no extra charge, on every replacement/upgrade System z processor you purchase from IBM in the future. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html Note that my email domain has changed from jo-annstores.com to joann.com. Please update your address book and other records to reflect this change. CONFIDENTIALITY/EMAIL NOTICE: The material in this transmission contains confidential and privileged information intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this material in error and that any forwarding, copying, printing, distribution, use or disclosure of the material is strictly prohibited. If you have received this material in error, please (i) do not read it, (ii) reply to the sender that you received the message in error, and (iii) erase or destroy the material. Emails are not secure and can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question)
Jan Vanbrabant wrote: Hi Ted (and/or Ed), Is this documented somewhere in an official IBM document? jan I'm not sure exactly where this is documented in the maze of IBM announcements and related material. But, in this February 2008 IT Jungle article by Hesh Wiener, he summarizes the policy this way: http://www.itjungle.com/big/big022608-story01.html Once a user buys a specialty engine, it survives an upgrade. So if a customer bought one for a z900 and then moved to a z990 and later to a z9 EC, the price of the first engine is the only price the user would have paid. IBM moves the engine, or more accurately turns on an equivalent engine, whenever a customer upgrades. Because successive generations have faster engines for standard and specialty use, the user ends up getting more specialty MIPS with the upgrade at no additional cost. I have no personal experience with IFL, zIIP, or zAAP upgrades. But, our ICF survived the transition from our z800 to our z9BC. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question)
I wonder why when we went from a z890 to a z9BC, I lost my IFL? I don't know, either. But, I do know of shops where it worked. For confidentiality reasons, I cannot name them. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Specialty Engine Prices (Was: Another RNL question)
John McKown writes: Hum, then I wonder why when we went from a z890 to a z9BC, I lost my IFL? No, I'm not going to complain. I don't much care anymore. Did someone tell IBM to turn it off? That is a choice. The only reason I can think of off the top of my head that someone might do that is that the IFL has a (very small) hardware maintenance charge associated with it after the warranty period. If it's totally idle then someone might object to the maintenance charge, although that probably doesn't explain why it went missing during the warranty period. But you might still have rights to an IFL, John, so I'd dig around a bit to figure out what happened to it and maybe have a chat with someone on why they're turning off hardware you already own and paying for, say, another 100 distributed servers that you don't. - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
