Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Seymour J Metz]

Even Jove nods. I'll never object to someone looking over my shoulder if they 
actually know what they're doing. We all see what we expect to see, and 
sometimes a second pair of eyes will spot something obvious that's been staring 
us in the face all along.

That said, I agree that an incompetent auditor is worse than no auditor; a bad 
one may demand something that actually weakens security. But should you stumble 
on a good auditor, keep him if you can.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo [cvitu...@hughes.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 10:38 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

I actually would rather have the IBM folks come in and perform their Health 
check. We had a team of IBM folks come onsite a couple of years ago to perform 
a checkup, I didn't like the fact our leadership had NO FAITH in me and my team 
to have the systems built and configured correctly . we passed with flying 
colors and we did get some good insight on some configuration changes we should 
review, I don't see any Auditor today knowing enough about my environment to 
help at all.

Carmen Vitullo



-Original Message-

From: Seymour 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Tuesday, 23 February 2021 9:26 AM CST
Subject: Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Your faux auditors may be a RPITA, but a *qualified* auditor is a joy forever, 
should you be so fortunate as to be audited by one. They will find things that 
actually do need fixing, and will make it easier to get management buy-in for 
what needs to be done.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo [cvitu...@hughes.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 8:39 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

In my case that is true, the Auditor works for another Health care company, 
their parent company are HITRUST Cert Auditors, so these folks are not true 
auditors, they are hired to guarantee HITRUST certification.
they do not know what an emulator is or have the need or desire to logon and 
gather the requirements they request, so anything can be spoofed !

I remember the auditors from the 70's and 80's when I worked for Sears, they 
came to the data center with their object deck and ran their programs to check 
and audit our systems, the knew the mainframe because most of these guys were 
SYSPROGS at one time

Carmen Vitullo



-Original Message-

From: Radoslaw 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Monday, 22 February 2021 5:45 PM CST
Subject: Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

W dniu 21.02.2021 o 19:55, Paul Gilmartin pisze:
> On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:23:03 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
>>> ...
>>> When the only tool you've mastered is printscreen, everything
>>> looks like a bitmap.
>> That was the requirement: to make Windows printscreen - a bitmap.
>> Did I forgot to mention it's plain stupid?
>>
> You mentioned that the volume requested was plain stupid.
>
> A possible justification for a bitmap beyond the requestor's ignorance
> is that your setup involves an elaborate macro for an emulator not
> supporting capture as text.
>
> And the emulator authors' justification for not supporting text capture
> is that resources are better spent supporting that macro language
> given that the OS supports graphic capture.
>
> But we were using Hummingbird Exceed which has text capture.
> Simply, most users didn't care to learn the technique.

No!
No, and no!
You assumed the auditor know the details and understand what emulator is.
That's plain wrong.
I learnt many years ago such auditors are uneducated, but they mask
their ignorancy with some mask. This is complex topic, I cannot describe
it clearly in English.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Bill Johnson]

 Most IT auditors I've dealt with recently cut their IT teeth on non-mainframe 
platforms and have no clue as to how the mainframe works. Therefore, they push 
for rules that are silly, limit productivity, and even create exposures that 
don't exist on the mainframe. Even the young one I worked with in 1991, had no 
clue about the mainframe. Just because someone puts auditor next to their name, 
doesn't suddenly make them an auditor. And as was seen during the 90's, fraud 
was pretty frequent among the big 6. In Phar Mor's case, the fraud was covered 
up by making one of the Cooper and Lybrand managers an executive for Phar Mor.
Yes, there was Phar Mor than met the eye.
2 other executives also got prison time.

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021, 12:04:33 PM EST, ITschak Mugzach 
 wrote:  
 
 Nice story. However I think the discussion is limited to IT status auditing.

ITschak

ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring
for z/OS, x/Linux & IBM I **| z/VM coming soon  *




On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 6:49 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

>  I worked for a company 30 years ago that at the time was part of the
> largest fraud in corporate history. The CEO and executives had 2 sets of
> books. The auditors were actively involved with the fraud. Anyone who has
> been around for a few decades remembers that a number of the big 6 auditing
> firms were involved with fraudulent corporate activities. The company was
> Phar Mor. The CEO was Mickey Monus who went to prison for 10 years. The
> auditing firm was Coopers and Lybrand. I worked with some of the people
> from Deloite who came in to help clean up the bankruptcy that ensued from
> the fraud. I ran reports using Easytrieve to tally up the almost 500
> million in debt we had no intention of paying. Many of the "auditors" who
> were running around the corporate office like rats in a sinking ship were
> only there to extract $200 an hour from the Debtor in Possession financing
> that bankrupt companies acquire. The one "auditor" I worked with was barely
> out of college and was computer illiterate. Her accounting skills were
> limited as well.
> IBM fanboy
>
>    On Tuesday, February 23, 2021, 9:40:02 AM EST, Radoslaw Skorupka <
> r.skoru...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  W dniu 23.02.2021 o 00:44, Radoslaw Skorupka pisze:
> > W dniu 21.02.2021 o 19:55, Paul Gilmartin pisze:
> >> On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:23:03 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
>     ...
>  When the only tool you've mastered is printscreen, everything
>  looks like a bitmap.
> >>> That was the requirement: to make Windows printscreen - a bitmap.
> >>> Did I forgot to mention it's plain stupid?
> >>>
> >> You mentioned that the volume requested was plain stupid.
> >>
> >> A possible justification for a bitmap beyond the requestor's ignorance
> >> is that your setup involves an elaborate macro for an emulator not
> >> supporting capture as text.
> >>
> >> And the emulator authors' justification for not supporting text capture
> >> is that resources are better spent supporting that macro language
> >> given that the OS supports graphic capture.
> >>
> >> But we were using Hummingbird Exceed which has text capture.
> >> Simply, most users didn't care to learn the technique.
> >
> > No!
> > No, and no!
> > You assumed the auditor know the details and understand what emulator is.
> > That's plain wrong.
> > I learnt many years ago such auditors are uneducated, but they mask
> > their ignorancy with some mask. This is complex topic, I cannot
> > describe it clearly in English.
>
> Explanation: I should say *some* auditors are so uneducated. Or "there
> are such auditors". There are also reasonable auditor, and even with
> very small or none mainframe knowledge they may do quite good job.
> Of course it depends on who's paying for the audit and what the
> expectations are. First - managers don't want to spend money if they do
> not have to. So, usually the audits are mandatory and main goal (the
> only goal) is to pass it with good result.
>
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> (looking for new job)
> Lodz, Poland
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Chris Hoelscher]

Are you saying there was . PHAR MOR going on than met the eyes?

Chris Hoelscher
Lead Sys DBA 
IBM Global Technical Services on assignmemt to Humana Inc.
T 502.476.2538  or 502.407.7266


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 11:48 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save 
ISRDDN output?

[External Email: Use caution with links and attachments]


 I worked for a company 30 years ago that at the time was part of the largest 
fraud in corporate history. The CEO and executives had 2 sets of books. The 
auditors were actively involved with the fraud. Anyone who has been around for 
a few decades remembers that a number of the big 6 auditing firms were involved 
with fraudulent corporate activities. The company was Phar Mor. The CEO was 
Mickey Monus who went to prison for 10 years. The auditing firm was Coopers and 
Lybrand. I worked with some of the people from Deloite who came in to help 
clean up the bankruptcy that ensued from the fraud. I ran reports using 
Easytrieve to tally up the almost 500 million in debt we had no intention of 
paying. Many of the "auditors" who were running around the corporate office 
like rats in a sinking ship were only there to extract $200 an hour from the 
Debtor in Possession financing that bankrupt companies acquire. The one 
"auditor" I worked with was barely out of college and was computer illiterate. 
Her accounting skills were limited as well.
IBM fanboy

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021, 9:40:02 AM EST, Radoslaw Skorupka 
 wrote:

 W dniu 23.02.2021 o 00:44, Radoslaw Skorupka pisze:
> W dniu 21.02.2021 o 19:55, Paul Gilmartin pisze:
>> On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:23:03 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> When the only tool you've mastered is printscreen, everything looks 
>>>> like a bitmap.
>>> That was the requirement: to make Windows printscreen - a bitmap.
>>> Did I forgot to mention it's plain stupid?
>>>
>> You mentioned that the volume requested was plain stupid.
>>
>> A possible justification for a bitmap beyond the requestor's 
>> ignorance is that your setup involves an elaborate macro for an 
>> emulator not supporting capture as text.
>>
>> And the emulator authors' justification for not supporting text 
>> capture is that resources are better spent supporting that macro 
>> language given that the OS supports graphic capture.
>>
>> But we were using Hummingbird Exceed which has text capture.
>> Simply, most users didn't care to learn the technique.
>
> No!
> No, and no!
> You assumed the auditor know the details and understand what emulator is.
> That's plain wrong.
> I learnt many years ago such auditors are uneducated, but they mask 
> their ignorancy with some mask. This is complex topic, I cannot 
> describe it clearly in English.

Explanation: I should say *some* auditors are so uneducated. Or "there are such 
auditors". There are also reasonable auditor, and even with very small or none 
mainframe knowledge they may do quite good job.
Of course it depends on who's paying for the audit and what the expectations 
are. First - managers don't want to spend money if they do not have to. So, 
usually the audits are mandatory and main goal (the only goal) is to pass it 
with good result.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

--
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and may contain CONFIDENTIAL material.  If you receive this 
material/information in error,
please contact the sender and delete or destroy the material/information.

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do not discriminate on the basis of race, color, national origin, ancestry, 
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Humana Inc. and its subsidiaries do not
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English: ATTENTION: If you do not speak English, language assistance services, 
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Español (Spanish): ATENCIÓN: Si habla español, tiene 

Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[ITschak Mugzach]

Nice story. However I think the discussion is limited to IT status auditing.

ITschak

ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring
for z/OS, x/Linux & IBM I **| z/VM coming soon  *




On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 6:49 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

>  I worked for a company 30 years ago that at the time was part of the
> largest fraud in corporate history. The CEO and executives had 2 sets of
> books. The auditors were actively involved with the fraud. Anyone who has
> been around for a few decades remembers that a number of the big 6 auditing
> firms were involved with fraudulent corporate activities. The company was
> Phar Mor. The CEO was Mickey Monus who went to prison for 10 years. The
> auditing firm was Coopers and Lybrand. I worked with some of the people
> from Deloite who came in to help clean up the bankruptcy that ensued from
> the fraud. I ran reports using Easytrieve to tally up the almost 500
> million in debt we had no intention of paying. Many of the "auditors" who
> were running around the corporate office like rats in a sinking ship were
> only there to extract $200 an hour from the Debtor in Possession financing
> that bankrupt companies acquire. The one "auditor" I worked with was barely
> out of college and was computer illiterate. Her accounting skills were
> limited as well.
> IBM fanboy
>
> On Tuesday, February 23, 2021, 9:40:02 AM EST, Radoslaw Skorupka <
> r.skoru...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  W dniu 23.02.2021 o 00:44, Radoslaw Skorupka pisze:
> > W dniu 21.02.2021 o 19:55, Paul Gilmartin pisze:
> >> On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:23:03 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
>  ...
>  When the only tool you've mastered is printscreen, everything
>  looks like a bitmap.
> >>> That was the requirement: to make Windows printscreen - a bitmap.
> >>> Did I forgot to mention it's plain stupid?
> >>>
> >> You mentioned that the volume requested was plain stupid.
> >>
> >> A possible justification for a bitmap beyond the requestor's ignorance
> >> is that your setup involves an elaborate macro for an emulator not
> >> supporting capture as text.
> >>
> >> And the emulator authors' justification for not supporting text capture
> >> is that resources are better spent supporting that macro language
> >> given that the OS supports graphic capture.
> >>
> >> But we were using Hummingbird Exceed which has text capture.
> >> Simply, most users didn't care to learn the technique.
> >
> > No!
> > No, and no!
> > You assumed the auditor know the details and understand what emulator is.
> > That's plain wrong.
> > I learnt many years ago such auditors are uneducated, but they mask
> > their ignorancy with some mask. This is complex topic, I cannot
> > describe it clearly in English.
>
> Explanation: I should say *some* auditors are so uneducated. Or "there
> are such auditors". There are also reasonable auditor, and even with
> very small or none mainframe knowledge they may do quite good job.
> Of course it depends on who's paying for the audit and what the
> expectations are. First - managers don't want to spend money if they do
> not have to. So, usually the audits are mandatory and main goal (the
> only goal) is to pass it with good result.
>
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> (looking for new job)
> Lodz, Poland
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Bill Johnson]

 I worked for a company 30 years ago that at the time was part of the largest 
fraud in corporate history. The CEO and executives had 2 sets of books. The 
auditors were actively involved with the fraud. Anyone who has been around for 
a few decades remembers that a number of the big 6 auditing firms were involved 
with fraudulent corporate activities. The company was Phar Mor. The CEO was 
Mickey Monus who went to prison for 10 years. The auditing firm was Coopers and 
Lybrand. I worked with some of the people from Deloite who came in to help 
clean up the bankruptcy that ensued from the fraud. I ran reports using 
Easytrieve to tally up the almost 500 million in debt we had no intention of 
paying. Many of the "auditors" who were running around the corporate office 
like rats in a sinking ship were only there to extract $200 an hour from the 
Debtor in Possession financing that bankrupt companies acquire. The one 
"auditor" I worked with was barely out of college and was computer illiterate. 
Her accounting skills were limited as well.
IBM fanboy

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021, 9:40:02 AM EST, Radoslaw Skorupka 
 wrote:  
 
 W dniu 23.02.2021 o 00:44, Radoslaw Skorupka pisze:
> W dniu 21.02.2021 o 19:55, Paul Gilmartin pisze:
>> On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:23:03 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
     ...
 When the only tool you've mastered is printscreen, everything
 looks like a bitmap.
>>> That was the requirement: to make Windows printscreen - a bitmap.
>>> Did I forgot to mention it's plain stupid?
>>>
>> You mentioned that the volume requested was plain stupid.
>>
>> A possible justification for a bitmap beyond the requestor's ignorance
>> is that your setup involves an elaborate macro for an emulator not
>> supporting capture as text.
>>
>> And the emulator authors' justification for not supporting text capture
>> is that resources are better spent supporting that macro language
>> given that the OS supports graphic capture.
>>
>> But we were using Hummingbird Exceed which has text capture.
>> Simply, most users didn't care to learn the technique.
>
> No!
> No, and no!
> You assumed the auditor know the details and understand what emulator is.
> That's plain wrong.
> I learnt many years ago such auditors are uneducated, but they mask 
> their ignorancy with some mask. This is complex topic, I cannot 
> describe it clearly in English.

Explanation: I should say *some* auditors are so uneducated. Or "there 
are such auditors". There are also reasonable auditor, and even with 
very small or none mainframe knowledge they may do quite good job.
Of course it depends on who's paying for the audit and what the 
expectations are. First - managers don't want to spend money if they do 
not have to. So, usually the audits are mandatory and main goal (the 
only goal) is to pass it with good result.


-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

--
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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

I actually would rather have the IBM folks come in and perform their Health 
check. We had a team of IBM folks come onsite a couple of years ago to perform 
a checkup, I didn't like the fact our leadership had NO FAITH in me and my team 
to have the systems built and configured correctly . we passed with flying 
colors and we did get some good insight on some configuration changes we should 
review, I don't see any Auditor today knowing enough about my environment to 
help at all. 
   
Carmen Vitullo 

  

-Original Message-

From: Seymour 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Tuesday, 23 February 2021 9:26 AM CST
Subject: Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Your faux auditors may be a RPITA, but a *qualified* auditor is a joy forever, 
should you be so fortunate as to be audited by one. They will find things that 
actually do need fixing, and will make it easier to get management buy-in for 
what needs to be done. 


-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 

 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo [cvitu...@hughes.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 8:39 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN 
output? 

In my case that is true, the Auditor works for another Health care company, 
their parent company are HITRUST Cert Auditors, so these folks are not true 
auditors, they are hired to guarantee HITRUST certification. 
they do not know what an emulator is or have the need or desire to logon and 
gather the requirements they request, so anything can be spoofed ! 

I remember the auditors from the 70's and 80's when I worked for Sears, they 
came to the data center with their object deck and ran their programs to check 
and audit our systems, the knew the mainframe because most of these guys were 
SYSPROGS at one time 

Carmen Vitullo 



-Original Message- 

From: Radoslaw  
To: IBM-MAIN  
Date: Monday, 22 February 2021 5:45 PM CST 
Subject: Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN 
output? 

W dniu 21.02.2021 o 19:55, Paul Gilmartin pisze: 
> On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:23:03 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote: 
>>> ... 
>>> When the only tool you've mastered is printscreen, everything 
>>> looks like a bitmap. 
>> That was the requirement: to make Windows printscreen - a bitmap. 
>> Did I forgot to mention it's plain stupid? 
>> 
> You mentioned that the volume requested was plain stupid. 
> 
> A possible justification for a bitmap beyond the requestor's ignorance 
> is that your setup involves an elaborate macro for an emulator not 
> supporting capture as text. 
> 
> And the emulator authors' justification for not supporting text capture 
> is that resources are better spent supporting that macro language 
> given that the OS supports graphic capture. 
> 
> But we were using Hummingbird Exceed which has text capture. 
> Simply, most users didn't care to learn the technique. 

No! 
No, and no! 
You assumed the auditor know the details and understand what emulator is. 
That's plain wrong. 
I learnt many years ago such auditors are uneducated, but they mask 
their ignorancy with some mask. This is complex topic, I cannot describe 
it clearly in English. 


-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka 
(looking for new job) 
Lodz, Poland 

-- 
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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

W dniu 23.02.2021 o 00:44, Radoslaw Skorupka pisze:

W dniu 21.02.2021 o 19:55, Paul Gilmartin pisze:

On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:23:03 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:

    ...
When the only tool you've mastered is printscreen, everything
looks like a bitmap.

That was the requirement: to make Windows printscreen - a bitmap.
Did I forgot to mention it's plain stupid?


You mentioned that the volume requested was plain stupid.

A possible justification for a bitmap beyond the requestor's ignorance
is that your setup involves an elaborate macro for an emulator not
supporting capture as text.

And the emulator authors' justification for not supporting text capture
is that resources are better spent supporting that macro language
given that the OS supports graphic capture.

But we were using Hummingbird Exceed which has text capture.
Simply, most users didn't care to learn the technique.


No!
No, and no!
You assumed the auditor know the details and understand what emulator is.
That's plain wrong.
I learnt many years ago such auditors are uneducated, but they mask 
their ignorancy with some mask. This is complex topic, I cannot 
describe it clearly in English.


Explanation: I should say *some* auditors are so uneducated. Or "there 
are such auditors". There are also reasonable auditor, and even with 
very small or none mainframe knowledge they may do quite good job.
Of course it depends on who's paying for the audit and what the 
expectations are. First - managers don't want to spend money if they do 
not have to. So, usually the audits are mandatory and main goal (the 
only goal) is to pass it with good result.



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Seymour J Metz]

Your faux auditors may be a RPITA, but a *qualified* auditor is a joy forever, 
should you be so fortunate as to be audited by one. They will find things that 
actually do need fixing, and will make it easier to get management buy-in for 
what needs to be done.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo [cvitu...@hughes.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 8:39 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

In my case that is true, the Auditor works for another Health care company, 
their parent company are HITRUST Cert Auditors, so these folks are not true 
auditors, they are hired to guarantee HITRUST certification.
they do not know what an emulator is or have the need or desire to logon and 
gather the requirements they request, so anything can be spoofed !

I remember the auditors from the 70's and 80's when I worked for Sears, they 
came to the data center with their object deck and ran their programs to check 
and audit our systems, the knew the mainframe because most of these guys were 
SYSPROGS at one time

Carmen Vitullo



-Original Message-

From: Radoslaw 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Monday, 22 February 2021 5:45 PM CST
Subject: Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

W dniu 21.02.2021 o 19:55, Paul Gilmartin pisze:
> On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:23:03 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
>>> ...
>>> When the only tool you've mastered is printscreen, everything
>>> looks like a bitmap.
>> That was the requirement: to make Windows printscreen - a bitmap.
>> Did I forgot to mention it's plain stupid?
>>
> You mentioned that the volume requested was plain stupid.
>
> A possible justification for a bitmap beyond the requestor's ignorance
> is that your setup involves an elaborate macro for an emulator not
> supporting capture as text.
>
> And the emulator authors' justification for not supporting text capture
> is that resources are better spent supporting that macro language
> given that the OS supports graphic capture.
>
> But we were using Hummingbird Exceed which has text capture.
> Simply, most users didn't care to learn the technique.

No!
No, and no!
You assumed the auditor know the details and understand what emulator is.
That's plain wrong.
I learnt many years ago such auditors are uneducated, but they mask
their ignorancy with some mask. This is complex topic, I cannot describe
it clearly in English.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

In my case that is true, the Auditor works for another Health care company, 
their parent company are HITRUST Cert Auditors, so these folks are not true 
auditors, they are hired to guarantee HITRUST certification. 
they do not know what an emulator is or have the need or desire to logon and 
gather the requirements they request, so anything can be spoofed ! 
  
I remember the auditors from the 70's and 80's when I worked for Sears, they 
came to the data center with their object deck and ran their programs to check 
and audit our systems, the knew the mainframe because most of these guys were 
SYSPROGS at one time 
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Radoslaw 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Monday, 22 February 2021 5:45 PM CST
Subject: Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

W dniu 21.02.2021 o 19:55, Paul Gilmartin pisze: 
> On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:23:03 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote: 
>>> ... 
>>> When the only tool you've mastered is printscreen, everything 
>>> looks like a bitmap. 
>> That was the requirement: to make Windows printscreen - a bitmap. 
>> Did I forgot to mention it's plain stupid? 
>> 
> You mentioned that the volume requested was plain stupid. 
> 
> A possible justification for a bitmap beyond the requestor's ignorance 
> is that your setup involves an elaborate macro for an emulator not 
> supporting capture as text. 
> 
> And the emulator authors' justification for not supporting text capture 
> is that resources are better spent supporting that macro language 
> given that the OS supports graphic capture. 
> 
> But we were using Hummingbird Exceed which has text capture. 
> Simply, most users didn't care to learn the technique. 

No! 
No, and no! 
You assumed the auditor know the details and understand what emulator is. 
That's plain wrong. 
I learnt many years ago such auditors are uneducated, but they mask 
their ignorancy with some mask. This is complex topic, I cannot describe 
it clearly in English. 


-- 
Radoslaw Skorupka 
(looking for new job) 
Lodz, Poland 

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 00:44:06 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
>
>No!
>No, and no!
>You assumed the auditor know the details and understand what emulator is.
>That's plain wrong.
>I learnt many years ago such auditors are uneducated, but they mask
>their ignorancy with some mask. This is complex topic, I cannot describe
>it clearly in English.
> 
Yes, and more:

http://eljeiffel.blogspot.com/2014/04/the-seven-sins-of-specifier-bertrand.html
...
o Overspecification: The presence in the text of an element
  that corresponds not to a feature of the problem but to features
  of a possible solution.
[some apparent typos corrected]

-- gil

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

W dniu 21.02.2021 o 19:55, Paul Gilmartin pisze:

On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:23:03 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:

...
When the only tool you've mastered is printscreen, everything
looks like a bitmap.

That was the requirement: to make Windows printscreen - a bitmap.
Did I forgot to mention it's plain stupid?


You mentioned that the volume requested was plain stupid.

A possible justification for a bitmap beyond the requestor's ignorance
is that your setup involves an elaborate macro for an emulator not
supporting capture as text.

And the emulator authors' justification for not supporting text capture
is that resources are better spent supporting that macro language
given that the OS supports graphic capture.

But we were using Hummingbird Exceed which has text capture.
Simply, most users didn't care to learn the technique.


No!
No, and no!
You assumed the auditor know the details and understand what emulator is.
That's plain wrong.
I learnt many years ago such auditors are uneducated, but they mask 
their ignorancy with some mask. This is complex topic, I cannot describe 
it clearly in English.



--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sun, 21 Feb 2021 18:23:03 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
>>...
>> When the only tool you've mastered is printscreen, everything
>> looks like a bitmap.
>
>That was the requirement: to make Windows printscreen - a bitmap.
>Did I forgot to mention it's plain stupid?
> 
You mentioned that the volume requested was plain stupid.

A possible justification for a bitmap beyond the requestor's ignorance
is that your setup involves an elaborate macro for an emulator not
supporting capture as text.

And the emulator authors' justification for not supporting text capture
is that resources are better spent supporting that macro language
given that the OS supports graphic capture.

But we were using Hummingbird Exceed which has text capture.
Simply, most users didn't care to learn the technique.

My bias was x3270 with Xming, Cygwin, or Hummingbird
as X11 server.

-- gil

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

W dniu 21.02.2021 o 00:02, Paul Gilmartin pisze:

On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 23:21:11 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:

...
In this case it had to be Windows printscreen, full screen, so it can be
x3270, Tom Brennan Vista, PCOMM, Notepad, Paint, whatever. The result is
always a bitmap.


x3270 can save as text or HTML.  The HTML is an excellent full-color
representation of the screen and searchable, not a bitmap.

When the only tool you've mastered is printscreen, everything
looks like a bitmap.


That was the requirement: to make Windows printscreen - a bitmap.
Did I forgot to mention it's plain stupid?

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 23:21:11 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
>...
>In this case it had to be Windows printscreen, full screen, so it can be
>x3270, Tom Brennan Vista, PCOMM, Notepad, Paint, whatever. The result is
>always a bitmap.
>
x3270 can save as text or HTML.  The HTML is an excellent full-color
representation of the screen and searchable, not a bitmap.

When the only tool you've mastered is printscreen, everything
looks like a bitmap.

>For the log I mentioned it would be over 100k pictures, over 80GB disk
>space. Obviously I refused to do screenshots for that log.
> 
Viewed at 30 FPS, that's a 56 minute movie!


On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 19:43:36 +, Gibney, Dave wrote:
>
>The HMC has a browser interface, not TN3270
>
In my worst nightmare, that HMC would scrape its own screen and
make a .PNG available to the browser.  Saving the page might just
capture an anchor to a volatile image.

-- gil

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

W dniu 20.02.2021 o 20:32, Paul Gilmartin pisze:

On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 10:42:37 -0800, Tom Brennan wrote:

It's irritating that some users report problems and supply graphic
screenshots as documentation.

For mainframe issues at the terminal, sure.  But in other cases I might
want an image, such as last week with a new z15 that wouldn't IPL and I
asked to see the HMC screen.  Turns out the solution was pretty easy
once I saw the error - nobody had connected any FICON cables yet.
That'll do it :)


May I in infer, then, that:
o The HMC (they never let me touch one) has only graphic screenshot
   capability, not text?
o The HMC is inaccessible via emulator?  Good security; hindrance to
   darkened/remote computer room operations.

Otherwise I can't envision a graphic screen image as superior to text.


As Dave noted HMC is accessible directly or remotely, but in both cases 
it is browser.
IMHO remote access is better, because it's easier to make screenshots 
and manage them.
And this is HTML, so you can prepare set of pictures and/or the messages 
as text. I created several instructions and used both. Sometimes it's 
better to show the picture and sometimes it is better to provide only 
the message. Of course in this case the goal was to make some procedure 
easier for the reader, not an audit.
I was also a movie star during some CPC upgrade I performed, but due to 
some co-worker who disturbed me... parental advisory... yes, the 
language was coarse...

(is it late Friday?)

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

W dniu 20.02.2021 o 19:03, Paul Gilmartin pisze:

On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 16:42:01 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:

...
b) screenshot series is completely useless for browsing or searching
some string.


Depends.  x3270 can capture screen content as either text or
impressively realistic HTML; both quite browsable/searchable.

(But does that violate a strict definition of "screenshot"?)

Not sure about all other emulators.

It's irritating that some users report problems and supply graphic
screenshots as documentation.


In this case it had to be Windows printscreen, full screen, so it can be 
x3270, Tom Brennan Vista, PCOMM, Notepad, Paint, whatever. The result is 
always a bitmap.
For the log I mentioned it would be over 100k pictures, over 80GB disk 
space. Obviously I refused to do screenshots for that log.


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Itschak Mugzach]

For 30+ years I perform security assessments, status audits,
readiness reviews, pentest (call it as you like). I've NEVER (!)
interviewed a person, or asked him for a screenshot. give me a standard
user (for phase one) and one with ROAUDIT (for phase two). The system knows
better how it is configed.

As lizette says, if you have not already done that (now, my suffix) by an
audit product. There are some in the market, and let them collect the
information themselves.

ITschak

*| **Itschak Mugzach | Director | SecuriTeam Software **|** IronSphere
Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring for Z/OS, zLinux
and IBM I **|  *

*|* *Email**: i_mugz...@securiteam.co.il **|* *Mob**: +972 522 986404 **|*
*Skype**: ItschakMugzach **|* *Web**: www.Securiteam.co.il  **|*





On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 5:42 PM Radoslaw Skorupka 
wrote:

> W dniu 19.02.2021 o 00:12, Frank Swarbrick pisze:
> > Who audits the auditors?
> > :-)
>
> I think this is really important and it will take place in the future.
> Or just some feedback process to report formal objections about the
> auditor and his incompetence.
> I met a lot of auditors and unfortunately I observe they are younger and
> younger folks with less and less knowledge. And the audit is processed
> to avoid any cost possible.
> Funny story: auditor demanded some report "as long as possible". It was
> really long - over 600 MB of text. However another demand was to provide
> everything as screenshot or set of screenshots.
> Side notes:
> a) screenshot can contain fake information as text file - it is enough
> to place false text file to the host and browse it.
> b) screenshot series is completely useless for browsing or searching
> some string.
> c) auditor did not understand the output at all. That's why he further
> asked for information already delivered on another screenshot. He just
> read some checklist and relay questions with no analysis about it's
> content.
>
> Of course there are exceptions. I remember two guys, who audited me for
> two weeks. Knowledgable. If something was not clear, he asked for help -
> what command is proper to provide him such and such information. Note:
> he didn't want the output, he wanted a command to issue. And every
> "finding" was discussed - what, why, etc. The best audit I had.
>
> And the most funny: an auditor sent by very big and very known company.
> He was really embarassed and ashamed, because it was his first week in
> this job. And it was hist *first job ever*.
>
> BTW: I also conducted some audits, being hired as independent
> consultant. Mostly RACF, but also more general, including data center
> and some operational procedures. However my role was not to collect the
> outputs.
>
> Regards
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> (looking for new job)
> Lodz, Poland
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Gibney, Dave]

The HMC has a browser interface, not TN3270

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2021 11:32 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN
> output?
> 
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 10:42:37 -0800, Tom Brennan wrote:
> >>
> >> It's irritating that some users report problems and supply graphic
> >> screenshots as documentation.
> >
> >For mainframe issues at the terminal, sure.  But in other cases I might
> >want an image, such as last week with a new z15 that wouldn't IPL and I
> >asked to see the HMC screen.  Turns out the solution was pretty easy
> >once I saw the error - nobody had connected any FICON cables yet.
> >That'll do it :)
> >
> May I in infer, then, that:
> o The HMC (they never let me touch one) has only graphic screenshot
>   capability, not text?
> o The HMC is inaccessible via emulator?  Good security; hindrance to
>   darkened/remote computer room operations.
> 
> Otherwise I can't envision a graphic screen image as superior to text.
> 
> Thanks,
> gil
> 
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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 10:42:37 -0800, Tom Brennan wrote:
>>
>> It's irritating that some users report problems and supply graphic
>> screenshots as documentation.
>
>For mainframe issues at the terminal, sure.  But in other cases I might
>want an image, such as last week with a new z15 that wouldn't IPL and I
>asked to see the HMC screen.  Turns out the solution was pretty easy
>once I saw the error - nobody had connected any FICON cables yet.
>That'll do it :)
> 
May I in infer, then, that:
o The HMC (they never let me touch one) has only graphic screenshot
  capability, not text?
o The HMC is inaccessible via emulator?  Good security; hindrance to
  darkened/remote computer room operations.

Otherwise I can't envision a graphic screen image as superior to text.

Thanks,
gil

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Tom Brennan]

On 2/20/2021 10:03 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:


It's irritating that some users report problems and supply graphic
screenshots as documentation.


For mainframe issues at the terminal, sure.  But in other cases I might 
want an image, such as last week with a new z15 that wouldn't IPL and I 
asked to see the HMC screen.  Turns out the solution was pretty easy 
once I saw the error - nobody had connected any FICON cables yet. 
That'll do it :)


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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 20 Feb 2021 16:42:01 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka wrote:
>...
>b) screenshot series is completely useless for browsing or searching
>some string.
> 
Depends.  x3270 can capture screen content as either text or
impressively realistic HTML; both quite browsable/searchable.

(But does that violate a strict definition of "screenshot"?)

Not sure about all other emulators.

It's irritating that some users report problems and supply graphic
screenshots as documentation.

-- gil

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Radoslaw Skorupka]

W dniu 19.02.2021 o 00:12, Frank Swarbrick pisze:

Who audits the auditors?
:-)


I think this is really important and it will take place in the future. 
Or just some feedback process to report formal objections about the 
auditor and his incompetence.
I met a lot of auditors and unfortunately I observe they are younger and 
younger folks with less and less knowledge. And the audit is processed 
to avoid any cost possible.
Funny story: auditor demanded some report "as long as possible". It was 
really long - over 600 MB of text. However another demand was to provide 
everything as screenshot or set of screenshots.

Side notes:
a) screenshot can contain fake information as text file - it is enough 
to place false text file to the host and browse it.
b) screenshot series is completely useless for browsing or searching 
some string.
c) auditor did not understand the output at all. That's why he further 
asked for information already delivered on another screenshot. He just 
read some checklist and relay questions with no analysis about it's content.


Of course there are exceptions. I remember two guys, who audited me for 
two weeks. Knowledgable. If something was not clear, he asked for help - 
what command is proper to provide him such and such information. Note: 
he didn't want the output, he wanted a command to issue. And every 
"finding" was discussed - what, why, etc. The best audit I had.


And the most funny: an auditor sent by very big and very known company. 
He was really embarassed and ashamed, because it was his first week in 
this job. And it was hist *first job ever*.


BTW: I also conducted some audits, being hired as independent 
consultant. Mostly RACF, but also more general, including data center 
and some operational procedures. However my role was not to collect the 
outputs.


Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
(looking for new job)
Lodz, Poland

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

Agree, and just as an example, just this morning I have spend (wasted) 3 hours 
responding to and working on audit issues for HITRUST, I am the only sysprog 
working on z/OS and I'm loosing time trying to upgrade from 2.3 to 2.4, each 
day I think I'll get some time to concentrate on  the USERMODS, EXITS, USS 
customization, EXITS, CATALOG issues and each day I am forced to go back 10 and 
punt :(  
  
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Seymour 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Friday, 19 February 2021 8:51 AM CST
Subject: Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Not just PARMLIB, but subsequent changes. 


-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 

 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Clark Morris [cfmt...@uniserve.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 5:01 PM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

[Default] On 18 Feb 2021 05:12:25 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main 
cvitu...@hughes.net (Carmen Vitullo) wrote: 

>I actually like the IBM health checker idea, I know I've been told over and 
>over it needs to be ISRDDN, but I really think it's because that's all they 
>know, they are lazy to say the least. 

As I suggested in a prior posting, I would investigate these auditors. 
If your postings reflect their knowledge and approach I would not have 
any confidence in their findings. As Peter Relson said D PROG,APF is 
more trustworthy than ISRDDN. However, they also should be interested 
in all PARMLIB members that can cause a library to be APF authorized 
as well as means of updating APF libraries. A competent auditor can 
help improve your system. An incompetent one can waste your and 
management's time and money and may even leave your system more 
vulnerable. 

Clark Morris 
>thanks 
>  
>Carmen Vitullo 
> 
> 
> 
>-Original Message- 
> 
>From: Peter  
>To: IBM-MAIN  
>Date: Thursday, 18 February 2021 6:50 AM CST 
>Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 
> 
>If I were an auditor, I'd prefer an approach that is implemented by a 
>required base element of the operating system (where SDSF and, I think, 
>ISPF do not meet that criterion) 
> 
>That would cover: 
>-- hzsproc CHECK(IBMCSV,CSV_APF_EXISTS) 
>-- DISPLAY PROG,APF 
> 
>Or provide my own (if I trust myself) 
>-- a program I provided that issues CSVAPF REQUEST=LIST and surfaces the 
>output 
> 
>But that's just me. And I'm no auditor. 
> 
>Peter Relson 
>z/OS Core Technology Design 
> 
> 
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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Seymour J Metz]

Not just PARMLIB, but subsequent changes.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Clark Morris [cfmt...@uniserve.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 5:01 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Default] On 18 Feb 2021 05:12:25 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
cvitu...@hughes.net (Carmen Vitullo) wrote:

>I actually like the IBM health checker idea, I know I've been told over and 
>over it needs to be ISRDDN, but I really think it's because that's all they 
>know, they are lazy to say the least.

As I suggested in a prior posting, I would investigate these auditors.
If your postings reflect their knowledge and approach I would not have
any confidence in their findings.  As Peter Relson said D PROG,APF is
more trustworthy than ISRDDN.  However, they also should be interested
in all PARMLIB members that can cause a library to be APF authorized
as well as means of updating APF libraries.  A competent auditor can
help improve your system.  An incompetent one can waste your and
management's time and money and may even leave your system more
vulnerable.

Clark Morris
>thanks
> 
>Carmen Vitullo
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>
>From: Peter 
>To: IBM-MAIN 
>Date: Thursday, 18 February 2021 6:50 AM CST
>Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?
>
>If I were an auditor, I'd prefer an approach that is implemented by a
>required base element of the operating system (where SDSF and, I think,
>ISPF do not meet that criterion)
>
>That would cover:
>-- hzsproc CHECK(IBMCSV,CSV_APF_EXISTS)
>-- DISPLAY PROG,APF
>
>Or provide my own (if I trust myself)
>-- a program I provided that issues CSVAPF REQUEST=LIST and surfaces the
>output
>
>But that's just me. And I'm no auditor.
>
>Peter Relson
>z/OS Core Technology Design
>
>
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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

Indeed Frank, like the Skype message I have for work, "who's watching the 
Watchers ?" :)  
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Frank 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Thursday, 18 February 2021 5:12 PM CST
Subject: Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Who audits the auditors? 
:-) 


 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Clark Morris  
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 3:01 PM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU  
Subject: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

[Default] On 18 Feb 2021 05:12:25 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main 
cvitu...@hughes.net (Carmen Vitullo) wrote: 

>I actually like the IBM health checker idea, I know I've been told over and 
>over it needs to be ISRDDN, but I really think it's because that's all they 
>know, they are lazy to say the least. 

As I suggested in a prior posting, I would investigate these auditors. 
If your postings reflect their knowledge and approach I would not have 
any confidence in their findings. As Peter Relson said D PROG,APF is 
more trustworthy than ISRDDN. However, they also should be interested 
in all PARMLIB members that can cause a library to be APF authorized 
as well as means of updating APF libraries. A competent auditor can 
help improve your system. An incompetent one can waste your and 
management's time and money and may even leave your system more 
vulnerable. 

Clark Morris 
>thanks 
> 
>Carmen Vitullo 
> 
> 
> 
>-Original Message- 
> 
>From: Peter  
>To: IBM-MAIN  
>Date: Thursday, 18 February 2021 6:50 AM CST 
>Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 
> 
>If I were an auditor, I'd prefer an approach that is implemented by a 
>required base element of the operating system (where SDSF and, I think, 
>ISPF do not meet that criterion) 
> 
>That would cover: 
>-- hzsproc CHECK(IBMCSV,CSV_APF_EXISTS) 
>-- DISPLAY PROG,APF 
> 
>Or provide my own (if I trust myself) 
>-- a program I provided that issues CSVAPF REQUEST=LIST and surfaces the 
>output 
> 
>But that's just me. And I'm no auditor. 
> 
>Peter Relson 
>z/OS Core Technology Design 
> 
> 
>-- 
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>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN 
> 
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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

we have tried ISRDDN APF SAVE and ISRDDN APF, then SAVE, this does not produce 
the desired report. 
I'm working on a batch solution similar to the one you suggested, thanks for 
your help 
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Hobart 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Friday, 19 February 2021 4:59 AM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

To the OP, have you considered the ISRDDN command SAVE? 

On running ISRDDN in batch, you can make it work if you can skip 
full-screen displays. These approaches come to mind: 
1 - Use CONTROL NONDISPL ... . 
2 - ISPSTART has options to execute commands. 
3 - ZSTART can be set to execute commands on startup. 
4 - Create a panel that sets ZCMD to something like save;end and then 
selects ISRDDN. 
5 - Copy the ISRDDN panel and tweak it to skip the full-screen display. 

Individually, or in combination, these should get you started. 

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 3:40 pm Paul Gilmartin, < 
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: 

> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 20:26:15 +, Jeremy Nicoll wrote: 
> > ... 
> >I can't see how any command that dumps its output into a file, which you 
> >then send to auditors is any good. How do they know that the file hasn't 
> >been created by hand, or edited between being produced and sent? 
> > 
> Grant those auditors access to (e.g.) ISRDDN? 
> 
> But see: 
> 
> https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rdriley/487/papers/Thompson_1984_ReflectionsonTrustingTrust.pdf
>  
> 
> (It's a real PITA to strip Google's tracking info off a URL returned 
> by a search. I have a scripr that does it. Sometimes.) 
> 
> -- gil 
> 
> -- 
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, 
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN 
> 

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Hobart Spitz]

To the OP, have you considered the ISRDDN command SAVE?

On running ISRDDN in batch, you can make it work if you can skip
full-screen displays.  These approaches come to mind:
1 - Use CONTROL NONDISPL ... .
2 - ISPSTART has options to execute commands.
3 - ZSTART can be set to execute commands on startup.
4 - Create a panel that sets ZCMD to something like save;end and then
selects ISRDDN.
5 - Copy the ISRDDN panel and tweak it to skip the full-screen display.

Individually, or in combination, these should get you started.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 3:40 pm Paul Gilmartin, <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 20:26:15 +, Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
> >...
> >I can't see how any command that dumps its output into a file, which you
> >then send to auditors is any good.  How do they know that the file hasn't
> >been created by hand, or edited between being produced and sent?
> >
> Grant those auditors access to (e.g.) ISRDDN?
>
> But see:
>
> https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rdriley/487/papers/Thompson_1984_ReflectionsonTrustingTrust.pdf
>
> (It's a real PITA to strip Google's tracking info off a URL returned
> by a search.  I have a scripr that does it.  Sometimes.)
>
> -- gil
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Frank Swarbrick]

Who audits the auditors?
:-)



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Clark Morris 
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 3:01 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Default] On 18 Feb 2021 05:12:25 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
cvitu...@hughes.net (Carmen Vitullo) wrote:

>I actually like the IBM health checker idea, I know I've been told over and 
>over it needs to be ISRDDN, but I really think it's because that's all they 
>know, they are lazy to say the least.

As I suggested in a prior posting, I would investigate these auditors.
If your postings reflect their knowledge and approach I would not have
any confidence in their findings.  As Peter Relson said D PROG,APF is
more trustworthy than ISRDDN.  However, they also should be interested
in all PARMLIB members that can cause a library to be APF authorized
as well as means of updating APF libraries.  A competent auditor can
help improve your system.  An incompetent one can waste your and
management's time and money and may even leave your system more
vulnerable.

Clark Morris
>thanks
>
>Carmen Vitullo
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>
>From: Peter 
>To: IBM-MAIN 
>Date: Thursday, 18 February 2021 6:50 AM CST
>Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?
>
>If I were an auditor, I'd prefer an approach that is implemented by a
>required base element of the operating system (where SDSF and, I think,
>ISPF do not meet that criterion)
>
>That would cover:
>-- hzsproc CHECK(IBMCSV,CSV_APF_EXISTS)
>-- DISPLAY PROG,APF
>
>Or provide my own (if I trust myself)
>-- a program I provided that issues CSVAPF REQUEST=LIST and surfaces the
>output
>
>But that's just me. And I'm no auditor.
>
>Peter Relson
>z/OS Core Technology Design
>
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>--
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Re: Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Mark Jacobs]

Also note unless you're protecting the CSVAPF.** resource, whatever method 
you're using to obtain the list of APF authorized datasets, it's just a 
snapshot in time, and can change unknowingly.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Thursday, February 18th, 2021 at 5:01 PM, Clark Morris 
 wrote:

> [Default] On 18 Feb 2021 05:12:25 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
>
> cvitu...@hughes.net (Carmen Vitullo) wrote:
>
> > I actually like the IBM health checker idea, I know I've been told over and 
> > over it needs to be ISRDDN, but I really think it's because that's all they 
> > know, they are lazy to say the least.
>
> As I suggested in a prior posting, I would investigate these auditors.
>
> If your postings reflect their knowledge and approach I would not have
>
> any confidence in their findings. As Peter Relson said D PROG,APF is
>
> more trustworthy than ISRDDN. However, they also should be interested
>
> in all PARMLIB members that can cause a library to be APF authorized
>
> as well as means of updating APF libraries. A competent auditor can
>
> help improve your system. An incompetent one can waste your and
>
> management's time and money and may even leave your system more
>
> vulnerable.
>
> Clark Morris
>
> > thanks
> >
> >  
> >
> > Carmen Vitullo
> >
> > -Original Message-
> >
> > From: Peter rel...@us.ibm.com
> >
> > To: IBM-MAIN IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >
> > Date: Thursday, 18 February 2021 6:50 AM CST
> >
> > Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?
> >
> > If I were an auditor, I'd prefer an approach that is implemented by a
> >
> > required base element of the operating system (where SDSF and, I think,
> >
> > ISPF do not meet that criterion)
> >
> > That would cover:
> >
> > -- hzsproc CHECK(IBMCSV,CSV_APF_EXISTS)
> >
> > -- DISPLAY PROG,APF
> >
> > Or provide my own (if I trust myself)
> >
> > -- a program I provided that issues CSVAPF REQUEST=LIST and surfaces the
> >
> > output
> >
> > But that's just me. And I'm no auditor.
> >
> > Peter Relson
> >
> > z/OS Core Technology Design
> >
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> >
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> >
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAINAl

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Are these auditors competent? was Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Clark Morris]

[Default] On 18 Feb 2021 05:12:25 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
cvitu...@hughes.net (Carmen Vitullo) wrote:

>I actually like the IBM health checker idea, I know I've been told over and 
>over it needs to be ISRDDN, but I really think it's because that's all they 
>know, they are lazy to say the least. 

As I suggested in a prior posting, I would investigate these auditors.
If your postings reflect their knowledge and approach I would not have
any confidence in their findings.  As Peter Relson said D PROG,APF is
more trustworthy than ISRDDN.  However, they also should be interested
in all PARMLIB members that can cause a library to be APF authorized
as well as means of updating APF libraries.  A competent auditor can
help improve your system.  An incompetent one can waste your and
management's time and money and may even leave your system more
vulnerable.

Clark Morris
>thanks 
>   
>Carmen Vitullo 
>
>   
>
>-Original Message-
>
>From: Peter 
>To: IBM-MAIN 
>Date: Thursday, 18 February 2021 6:50 AM CST
>Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?
>
>If I were an auditor, I'd prefer an approach that is implemented by a 
>required base element of the operating system (where SDSF and, I think, 
>ISPF do not meet that criterion) 
>
>That would cover: 
>-- hzsproc CHECK(IBMCSV,CSV_APF_EXISTS) 
>-- DISPLAY PROG,APF 
>
>Or provide my own (if I trust myself) 
>-- a program I provided that issues CSVAPF REQUEST=LIST and surfaces the 
>output 
>
>But that's just me. And I'm no auditor. 
>
>Peter Relson 
>z/OS Core Technology Design 
>
>
>-- 
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, 
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN   
>
>--
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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 20:26:15 +, Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
>...
>I can't see how any command that dumps its output into a file, which you
>then send to auditors is any good.  How do they know that the file hasn't
>been created by hand, or edited between being produced and sent?
> 
Grant those auditors access to (e.g.) ISRDDN?

But see:

https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rdriley/487/papers/Thompson_1984_ReflectionsonTrustingTrust.pdf

(It's a real PITA to strip Google's tracking info off a URL returned
by a search.  I have a scripr that does it.  Sometimes.)

-- gil

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Jeremy Nicoll]

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, at 13:31, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> ObSturgeon'sLaw A competent auditor would understand that there are 
> several viable approaches and would give a requirement rather than an 
> implementation. Using HC is certainly one of them. I'd probably write a 
> script to issue "DISPLAY PROG,APF,ALL" using CONSOLE and capture the 
> output the a file, but direct use of CSVAPF would be more transparent 
> for an auditor familiar with MVS.

It's been a long time since I was last involved in something like this, 
but I'm fairly sure our auditors came to see us and sat with us as we 
executed various commands.  If we printed screens, then they could 
see that the paper they took away matched what was on those screens.

I can't see how any command that dumps its output into a file, which you
then send to auditors is any good.  How do they know that the file hasn't
been created by hand, or edited between being produced and sent?

-- 
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Seymour J Metz]

Yes, but AFAIK there is none that would be useful.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Billy Ashton [bill00ash...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 5:44 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Is there a way to fire off ISRDDN in ISPF batch mode?

Billy

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

It appears that ISRDDN in batch receives BDISPMAX error, increasing the count 
it appears ISRDDN is in a loop :(  
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Carmen 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Thursday, 18 February 2021 7:10 AM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

that's something I am going to try, I've created some ISPF dialogs that can run 
both all I need is ISPSTART, Ill jet you know if this works, thanks 
  
Carmen Vitullo 



-Original Message- 

From: Billy  
To: IBM-MAIN  
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 4:48 PM CST 
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

Is there a way to fire off ISRDDN in ISPF batch mode? 

Billy 

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Seymour J Metz]

ObSturgeon'sLaw A competent auditor would understand that there are several 
viable approaches and would give a requirement rather than an implementation. 
Using HC is certainly one of them. I'd probably write a script to issue 
"DISPLAY PROG,APF,ALL" using CONSOLE and capture the output the a file, but 
direct use of CSVAPF would be more transparent for an auditor familiar with MVS.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Peter Relson [rel...@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2021 7:50 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

If I were an auditor, I'd prefer an approach that is implemented by a
required base element of the operating system (where SDSF and, I think,
ISPF do not meet that criterion)

That would cover:
-- hzsproc CHECK(IBMCSV,CSV_APF_EXISTS)
-- DISPLAY PROG,APF

Or provide my own (if I trust myself)
-- a program I provided that issues CSVAPF REQUEST=LIST and surfaces the
output

But that's just me. And I'm no auditor.

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

I actually like the IBM health checker idea, I know I've been told over and 
over it needs to be ISRDDN, but I really think it's because that's all they 
know, they are lazy to say the least. 
thanks 
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Peter 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Thursday, 18 February 2021 6:50 AM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

If I were an auditor, I'd prefer an approach that is implemented by a 
required base element of the operating system (where SDSF and, I think, 
ISPF do not meet that criterion) 

That would cover: 
-- hzsproc CHECK(IBMCSV,CSV_APF_EXISTS) 
-- DISPLAY PROG,APF 

Or provide my own (if I trust myself) 
-- a program I provided that issues CSVAPF REQUEST=LIST and surfaces the 
output 

But that's just me. And I'm no auditor. 

Peter Relson 
z/OS Core Technology Design 


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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

that's something I am going to try, I've created some ISPF dialogs that can run 
both all I need is ISPSTART, Ill jet you know if this works, thanks 
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Billy 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 4:48 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Is there a way to fire off ISRDDN in ISPF batch mode? 

Billy 

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Peter Relson]

If I were an auditor, I'd prefer an approach that is implemented by a 
required base element of the operating system (where SDSF and, I think, 
ISPF do not meet that criterion)

That would cover:
-- hzsproc CHECK(IBMCSV,CSV_APF_EXISTS)
-- DISPLAY PROG,APF

Or provide my own (if I trust myself)
-- a program I provided that issues CSVAPF REQUEST=LIST and surfaces the 
output

But that's just me. And I'm no auditor.

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design


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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Tom Brennan]

Your post reminded me that I used to have to provide things like 
SETROPTS LIST output to auditors, produce SOX access reports, check RACF 
SMF records, and things like that.  Because I worked a lot with id's, 
passwords, and even root access on Unix boxes, I always figured I would 
be the scapegoat if there was a mainframe data breach.  So I used to 
joke about my picture ending up on TV news with my palms up in a kind of 
"I know nothing" pose :)


On 2/17/2021 9:10 PM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote:

The print command/PF*/Print sequence shows the physical screens and line
numbers start/end for each screen.

Save the ISPF.LIST dataset (KEEP NEW) and that should suffice.

Our external auditors ask for a RACF SETROPTS LIST, similar kind of request
and of course it could be fudged.

Currently trying to convince another team that z/OS has Unix and have
people who can SUDO (SU) and gasp that started tasks run as UID(0). They
usually start with "Well I understand Windows security, but? "



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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Wayne Bickerdike]

The print command/PF*/Print sequence shows the physical screens and line
numbers start/end for each screen.

Save the ISPF.LIST dataset (KEEP NEW) and that should suffice.

Our external auditors ask for a RACF SETROPTS LIST, similar kind of request
and of course it could be fudged.

Currently trying to convince another team that z/OS has Unix and have
people who can SUDO (SU) and gasp that started tasks run as UID(0). They
usually start with "Well I understand Windows security, but? "

On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 12:58 PM Clark Morris  wrote:

> [Default] On 17 Feb 2021 11:18:10 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
> cvitu...@hughes.net (Carmen Vitullo) wrote:
>
> >you took the words right out of my mouth, I told our team auditor rep to
> ask them, "how to we use ISRDDN and provide the output you require",
> unfortunately this person is afraid to rock the boat, I on the other hand
> had some good teachers and was taught I need to be a pain, be a fly in the
> ointment !
> >
> Based on this thread, I seriously doubt that these auditors are
> capable of doing a competent job of assessing risk.  You could spoof
> ISRDDN by using a STEPLIB in the logon PROC.  I would trust a console
> display of D PROG,APF,ALL more.  Incidentally what is the status of
> modules?  They remind me of an auditor who in the 1980s after being
> told we had effectively no security (by me and then my boss who put it
> in management terms) was more concerned with the fact we were running
> JES3 on a single computer system.  It might be worthwhile to research
> this company.
>
> Clark Morris
> >
> >Carmen Vitullo
> >
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-----
> >
> >From: Lizette 
> >To: IBM-MAIN 
> >Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 1:09 PM CST
> >Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?
> >
> >Then I would go back and say
> >
> >Please provide your tool to do this, as you do not want to trust one of
> mine
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-
> >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Carmen Vitullo
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 11:59 AM
> >To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?
> >
> >Lizette, you are absolutely correct and this is one of the options I
> provided, the only problem, the HITRUST contractor(s) tell us what
> commands, what tools to use to provide them what they require.
> >they require us to use ISRDDN, any other tool or command, in their eye's
> can be spoofed, faked
> >
> >Carmen Vitullo
> >
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >
> >From: Lizette 
> >To: IBM-MAIN 
> >Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 12:49 PM CST
> >Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?
> >
> >Why not go to SDSF APF and list there?
> >
> >Or maybe in SDSF use CK and go to APF Health Check details.
> >
> >You can use either depending on what your Auditors need.
> >
> >The APF in SDSF can probably be captured with an ISFEXEC function.
> >
> >Lizette
> >
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Carmen Vitullo
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 7:45 AM
> >To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> >Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?
> >
> >We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF
> datasets and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and
> save the output to a dataset?
> >We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I
> requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to
> save the output, any ideas?
> >thanks
> >
> >--
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> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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> >
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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Clark Morris]

[Default] On 17 Feb 2021 11:18:10 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
cvitu...@hughes.net (Carmen Vitullo) wrote:

>you took the words right out of my mouth, I told our team auditor rep to ask 
>them, "how to we use ISRDDN and provide the output you require", unfortunately 
>this person is afraid to rock the boat, I on the other hand had some good 
>teachers and was taught I need to be a pain, be a fly in the ointment ! 
>  
Based on this thread, I seriously doubt that these auditors are
capable of doing a competent job of assessing risk.  You could spoof
ISRDDN by using a STEPLIB in the logon PROC.  I would trust a console
display of D PROG,APF,ALL more.  Incidentally what is the status of
modules?  They remind me of an auditor who in the 1980s after being
told we had effectively no security (by me and then my boss who put it
in management terms) was more concerned with the fact we were running
JES3 on a single computer system.  It might be worthwhile to research
this company.

Clark Morris 
>   
>Carmen Vitullo 
>
>   
>
>-Original Message-
>
>From: Lizette 
>To: IBM-MAIN 
>Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 1:09 PM CST
>Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?
>
>Then I would go back and say 
>
>Please provide your tool to do this, as you do not want to trust one of mine 
>
>
>
>-Original Message- 
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
>Carmen Vitullo 
>Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 11:59 AM 
>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
>Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 
>
>Lizette, you are absolutely correct and this is one of the options I provided, 
>the only problem, the HITRUST contractor(s) tell us what commands, what tools 
>to use to provide them what they require. 
>they require us to use ISRDDN, any other tool or command, in their eye's can 
>be spoofed, faked 
>
>Carmen Vitullo 
>
>
>
>-----Original Message- 
>
>From: Lizette  
>To: IBM-MAIN  
>Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 12:49 PM CST 
>Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 
>
>Why not go to SDSF APF and list there? 
>
>Or maybe in SDSF use CK and go to APF Health Check details. 
>
>You can use either depending on what your Auditors need. 
>
>The APF in SDSF can probably be captured with an ISFEXEC function. 
>
>Lizette 
>
>
>
>-----Original Message- 
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
>Carmen Vitullo 
>Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 7:45 AM 
>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
>Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 
>
>We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
>and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
>output to a dataset? 
>We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
>requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
>the output, any ideas? 
>thanks 
>
>-- 
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>lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN 
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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Billy Ashton]

Is there a way to fire off ISRDDN in ISPF batch mode?

Billy

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Matthew Stitt]

Does your site have SHOWZOS?  If so, would they accept the APF section listing 
from it?

Matthew Stitt

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 19:39:55 +, Carmen Vitullo  wrote:

>That may be cleaner than the way my team member is doing it now, and can be 
>done via a macro also, thanks 
>I sure wish ISRDDN  worked like ISRFIND, I know ISRFIND can output to a 
>ddname. 
>  
>   
>Carmen Vitullo 
>
>   
>
>-Original Message-
>
>From: Michael <034cc18fb308-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
>To: IBM-MAIN 
>Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 1:28 PM CST
>Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?
>
>This may not be the answer you want but it will work: 
>TSO ISRDDN APF 
>then do top line command PRINT 
>Hit PF8 and do PRINT command again and then repeat until entire APF list is 
>captured. 
>Output will be written to userid.SPF?.LIST data set. 
>Make sure your ISPF options are not set to delete your list data set when you 
>exit ISPF. 
>
>Michael Brennan 

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Pinnacle]

On 2/17/2021 2:20 PM, Carmen Vitullo wrote:

Actually Tom that's what we are currently doing via a VB macro - it currently works 
with reflections, our fear is in the very near future we will be forced to use a thin 
client like flynet and that VB macro will no longer work.  > >

Hit the PrtScr key, paste into Word.

Regards,
Tom Conley
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Tom Conley

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Seymour J Metz]

Did you point out that it's easier to spoof ISRDDN than the other tools?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo [cvitu...@hughes.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 1:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Lizette, you are absolutely correct and this is one of the options I provided, 
the only problem, the HITRUST contractor(s) tell us what commands, what tools 
to use to provide them what they require.
they require us to use ISRDDN, any other tool or command, in their eye's can be 
spoofed, faked

Carmen Vitullo



-Original Message-

From: Lizette 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 12:49 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Why not go to SDSF APF and list there?

Or maybe in SDSF use CK and go to APF Health Check details.

You can use either depending on what your Auditors need.

The APF in SDSF can probably be captured with an ISFEXEC function.

Lizette



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 7:45 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset?
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas?
thanks

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Tom Brennan]

Years ago I was asked for "complete" documentation of my tests of a 
newly installed mainframe product.  As a joke I setup my new TV camera 
over my shoulder and recorded probably an hour of testing.  I sent the 
auditor a DVD, fully expecting some kind of trouble because of my joke. 
I was really surprised when they said they liked the idea :)


On 2/17/2021 11:25 AM, Pommier, Rex wrote:

So how about this:  Run the ISRDDN to your screen, grab your trusty smart phone and take 
a picture of the first page of it, PF8 take another picture until done, then e-mail them 
the pictures and tell them that until they provide you a better tool that "can't be 
compromised" this is what they're going to get?

I've done similar things to these clueless auditors in the past and once they 
see they actually have to do some work to get their precious output they 
typically change their tune.

Rex

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 1:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

you took the words right out of my mouth, I told our team auditor rep to ask them, 
"how to we use ISRDDN and provide the output you require", unfortunately this 
person is afraid to rock the boat, I on the other hand had some good teachers and was 
taught I need to be a pain, be a fly in the ointment !
   

Carmen Vitullo





-Original Message-

From: Lizette 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 1:09 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Then I would go back and say

Please provide your tool to do this, as you do not want to trust one of mine



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 11:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Lizette, you are absolutely correct and this is one of the options I provided, 
the only problem, the HITRUST contractor(s) tell us what commands, what tools 
to use to provide them what they require.
they require us to use ISRDDN, any other tool or command, in their eye's can be 
spoofed, faked

Carmen Vitullo



-Original Message-

From: Lizette 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 12:49 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Why not go to SDSF APF and list there?

Or maybe in SDSF use CK and go to APF Health Check details.

You can use either depending on what your Auditors need.

The APF in SDSF can probably be captured with an ISFEXEC function.

Lizette



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 7:45 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset?
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas?
thanks

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On 2021-02-17, at 12:30:30, Carmen Vitullo  wrote:
> 
> so many great ideas, I especially like taking a picture of the screen !  
> 
Ask them to buy you an SX-70.

I looked at , where
I read, "Capture screen to a file."  That's pretty vague.  What format?
TIFF, JPEG, PNG, SVG, HTML, TXT, ODT, RTF, PDF, ...
(Check all that apply.)

-- gil

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Lizette Koehler]

I will say using SDSF APF Function has a nice display and details for an auditor

Using on the command line SNAPSHOT SE 
Creates a dataset I can create to a new file.

Very nice

Glad you mentioned it

Lizette


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 12:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

That may be cleaner than the way my team member is doing it now, and can be 
done via a macro also, thanks I sure wish ISRDDN  worked like ISRFIND, I know 
ISRFIND can output to a ddname. 
  
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Michael <034cc18fb308-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 1:28 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

This may not be the answer you want but it will work: 
TSO ISRDDN APF
then do top line command PRINT
Hit PF8 and do PRINT command again and then repeat until entire APF list is 
captured. 
Output will be written to userid.SPF?.LIST data set. 
Make sure your ISPF options are not set to delete your list data set when you 
exit ISPF. 

Michael Brennan 


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 8:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.] 

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset? 
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas? 
thanks 

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

That may be cleaner than the way my team member is doing it now, and can be 
done via a macro also, thanks 
I sure wish ISRDDN  worked like ISRFIND, I know ISRFIND can output to a ddname. 
  
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Michael <034cc18fb308-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 1:28 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

This may not be the answer you want but it will work: 
TSO ISRDDN APF 
then do top line command PRINT 
Hit PF8 and do PRINT command again and then repeat until entire APF list is 
captured. 
Output will be written to userid.SPF?.LIST data set. 
Make sure your ISPF options are not set to delete your list data set when you 
exit ISPF. 

Michael Brennan 

 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo  
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 8:44 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.] 

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset? 
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas? 
thanks 

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

so many great ideas, I especially like taking a picture of the screen !  
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Rex 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 1:25 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

So how about this: Run the ISRDDN to your screen, grab your trusty smart phone 
and take a picture of the first page of it, PF8 take another picture until 
done, then e-mail them the pictures and tell them that until they provide you a 
better tool that "can't be compromised" this is what they're going to get?

I've done similar things to these clueless auditors in the past and once they 
see they actually have to do some work to get their precious output they 
typically change their tune.

Rex

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 1:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

you took the words right out of my mouth, I told our team auditor rep to ask 
them, "how to we use ISRDDN and provide the output you require", unfortunately 
this person is afraid to rock the boat, I on the other hand had some good 
teachers and was taught I need to be a pain, be a fly in the ointment ! 
  
  
Carmen Vitullo 



-Original Message-

From: Lizette 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 1:09 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Then I would go back and say 

Please provide your tool to do this, as you do not want to trust one of mine 



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 11:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

Lizette, you are absolutely correct and this is one of the options I provided, 
the only problem, the HITRUST contractor(s) tell us what commands, what tools 
to use to provide them what they require. 
they require us to use ISRDDN, any other tool or command, in their eye's can be 
spoofed, faked 

Carmen Vitullo 



-Original Message- 

From: Lizette 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 12:49 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

Why not go to SDSF APF and list there? 

Or maybe in SDSF use CK and go to APF Health Check details. 

You can use either depending on what your Auditors need. 

The APF in SDSF can probably be captured with an ISFEXEC function. 

Lizette 



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 7:45 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset? 
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas? 
thanks 

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Michael Brennan]

This may not be the answer you want but it will work:
TSO ISRDDN APF
then do top line command PRINT
Hit PF8 and do PRINT command again and then repeat until entire APF list is 
captured.
Output will be written to  userid.SPF?.LIST data set.
Make sure your ISPF options are not set to delete your list data set when you 
exit ISPF.

Michael Brennan


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 8:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset?
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas?
thanks

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

reflections, so far, allows advanced VB macro invocations, I think eventually 
if ISRDDN output cannot be saved to a file then I am going to suggest we push 
back to leadership and tell them the contractor is being unrealistic in his 
requirements.  
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Paul <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 1:15 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 11:00:56 -0800, Tom Brennan wrote: 

>Then what about terminal emulator screen scraping? 
> 
But that requires a terminal emulator, which may not be on the 
approved list. 

I know x3270 has ability to save a screen as either HTML or .txt, 
more useful than an image. I understand Hummingbird has a 
similar facility; not widely known nor well documented. Vista? 

Heck; send them a .png, better than they deserve. Or .svg. 

Since there's no approved way to capture the data, transmit it, 
or to view the transmitted copy, the only alternative is to grant 
the HITRUST contractor(s) access to ISRDDN. 

What if they have RFID brain implants? 

>On 2/17/2021 10:59 AM, Carmen Vitullo wrote: 
>> Lizette, you are absolutely correct and this is one of the options I 
>> provided, the only problem, the HITRUST contractor(s) tell us what commands, 
>> what tools to use to provide them what they require. 
>> they require us to use ISRDDN, any other tool or command, in their eye's can 
>> be spoofed, faked 

-- gil 

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Pommier, Rex]

So how about this:  Run the ISRDDN to your screen, grab your trusty smart phone 
and take a picture of the first page of it, PF8 take another picture until 
done, then e-mail them the pictures and tell them that until they provide you a 
better tool that "can't be compromised" this is what they're going to get?

I've done similar things to these clueless auditors in the past and once they 
see they actually have to do some work to get their precious output they 
typically change their tune.

Rex

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 1:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [External] Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

you took the words right out of my mouth, I told our team auditor rep to ask 
them, "how to we use ISRDDN and provide the output you require", unfortunately 
this person is afraid to rock the boat, I on the other hand had some good 
teachers and was taught I need to be a pain, be a fly in the ointment ! 
  
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Lizette 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 1:09 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Then I would go back and say 

Please provide your tool to do this, as you do not want to trust one of mine 



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 11:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

Lizette, you are absolutely correct and this is one of the options I provided, 
the only problem, the HITRUST contractor(s) tell us what commands, what tools 
to use to provide them what they require. 
they require us to use ISRDDN, any other tool or command, in their eye's can be 
spoofed, faked 

Carmen Vitullo 



-Original Message- 

From: Lizette 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 12:49 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

Why not go to SDSF APF and list there? 

Or maybe in SDSF use CK and go to APF Health Check details. 

You can use either depending on what your Auditors need. 

The APF in SDSF can probably be captured with an ISFEXEC function. 

Lizette 



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 7:45 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset? 
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas? 
thanks 

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

Actually Tom that's what we are currently doing via a VB macro - it currently 
works with reflections, our fear is in the very near future we will be forced 
to use a thin client like flynet and that VB macro will no longer work. 
  
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Tom 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 1:01 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Then what about terminal emulator screen scraping? 

On 2/17/2021 10:59 AM, Carmen Vitullo wrote: 
> Lizette, you are absolutely correct and this is one of the options I 
> provided, the only problem, the HITRUST contractor(s) tell us what commands, 
> what tools to use to provide them what they require. 
> they require us to use ISRDDN, any other tool or command, in their eye's can 
> be spoofed, faked 
> 
> Carmen Vitullo 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> 
> From: Lizette  
> To: IBM-MAIN  
> Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 12:49 PM CST 
> Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 
> 
> Why not go to SDSF APF and list there? 
> 
> Or maybe in SDSF use CK and go to APF Health Check details. 
> 
> You can use either depending on what your Auditors need. 
> 
> The APF in SDSF can probably be captured with an ISFEXEC function. 
> 
> Lizette 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
> Carmen Vitullo 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 7:45 AM 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 
> 
> We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
> and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
> output to a dataset? 
> We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
> requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to 
> save the output, any ideas? 
> thanks 
> 
> -- 
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> lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN 
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> 
> 

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

you took the words right out of my mouth, I told our team auditor rep to ask 
them, "how to we use ISRDDN and provide the output you require", unfortunately 
this person is afraid to rock the boat, I on the other hand had some good 
teachers and was taught I need to be a pain, be a fly in the ointment ! 
  
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Lizette 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 1:09 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Then I would go back and say 

Please provide your tool to do this, as you do not want to trust one of mine 



-Original Message- 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 11:59 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

Lizette, you are absolutely correct and this is one of the options I provided, 
the only problem, the HITRUST contractor(s) tell us what commands, what tools 
to use to provide them what they require. 
they require us to use ISRDDN, any other tool or command, in their eye's can be 
spoofed, faked 

Carmen Vitullo 



-Original Message- 

From: Lizette  
To: IBM-MAIN  
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 12:49 PM CST 
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

Why not go to SDSF APF and list there? 

Or maybe in SDSF use CK and go to APF Health Check details. 

You can use either depending on what your Auditors need. 

The APF in SDSF can probably be captured with an ISFEXEC function. 

Lizette 



-Original Message- 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 7:45 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset? 
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas? 
thanks 

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Wed, 17 Feb 2021 11:00:56 -0800, Tom Brennan wrote:

>Then what about terminal emulator screen scraping?
>
But that requires a terminal emulator, which may not be on the
approved list.

I know x3270 has ability to save a screen as either HTML or .txt,
more useful than an image.  I understand Hummingbird has a
similar facility; not widely known nor well documented.  Vista?

Heck; send them a .png, better than they deserve.  Or .svg.

Since there's no approved way to capture the data, transmit it,
or to view the transmitted copy, the only alternative is to grant
the HITRUST contractor(s) access to ISRDDN.

What if they have RFID brain implants?

>On 2/17/2021 10:59 AM, Carmen Vitullo wrote:
>> Lizette, you are absolutely correct and this is one of the options I 
>> provided, the only problem, the HITRUST contractor(s) tell us what commands, 
>> what tools to use to provide them what they require.
>> they require us to use ISRDDN, any other tool or command, in their eye's can 
>> be spoofed, faked

-- gil

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Lizette Koehler]

Then I would go back and say

Please provide your tool to do this, as you do not want to trust one of mine



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 11:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Lizette, you are absolutely correct and this is one of the options I provided, 
the only problem, the HITRUST contractor(s) tell us what commands, what tools 
to use to provide them what they require. 
they require us to use ISRDDN, any other tool or command, in their eye's can be 
spoofed, faked 
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Lizette 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 12:49 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Why not go to SDSF APF and list there? 

Or maybe in SDSF use CK and go to APF Health Check details. 

You can use either depending on what your Auditors need. 

The APF in SDSF can probably be captured with an ISFEXEC function. 

Lizette 



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 7:45 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset? 
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas? 
thanks 

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Tom Brennan]

Then what about terminal emulator screen scraping?

On 2/17/2021 10:59 AM, Carmen Vitullo wrote:

Lizette, you are absolutely correct and this is one of the options I provided, 
the only problem, the HITRUST contractor(s) tell us what commands, what tools 
to use to provide them what they require.
they require us to use ISRDDN, any other tool or command, in their eye's can be 
spoofed, faked

Carmen Vitullo





-Original Message-

From: Lizette 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 12:49 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Why not go to SDSF APF and list there?

Or maybe in SDSF use CK and go to APF Health Check details.

You can use either depending on what your Auditors need.

The APF in SDSF can probably be captured with an ISFEXEC function.

Lizette



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 7:45 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset?
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas?
thanks

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

Lizette, you are absolutely correct and this is one of the options I provided, 
the only problem, the HITRUST contractor(s) tell us what commands, what tools 
to use to provide them what they require. 
they require us to use ISRDDN, any other tool or command, in their eye's can be 
spoofed, faked 
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Lizette 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 12:49 PM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Why not go to SDSF APF and list there? 

Or maybe in SDSF use CK and go to APF Health Check details. 

You can use either depending on what your Auditors need. 

The APF in SDSF can probably be captured with an ISFEXEC function. 

Lizette 



-Original Message- 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 7:45 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset? 
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas? 
thanks 

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Lizette Koehler]

Why not go to SDSF APF and list there?

Or maybe in SDSF use CK and go to APF Health Check details.

You can use either depending on what your Auditors need.

The APF in SDSF can probably be captured with an ISFEXEC function.

Lizette



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 7:45 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset? 
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas? 
thanks

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

Absolutely, just like the mainframe development teams from years back, read a 
trade rag, airline mag and take what they've read to leadership and say "we 
NEED to move this way"   
unfortunalty our new leadership is allowing this HITRUST contractor to have 
free reign - we do what they say just so we can gain HITRUST qualification 
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Seymour 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 9:24 AM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Their requirement is to read and trust airline magazines. 


-- 
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz 
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 

 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Mark Jacobs [0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 10:12 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

Rhetorical question, is their requirement to only use ISRDDN related to "If the 
only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail" 
statement? 

Mark Jacobs 

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email. 

GPG Public Key - 
https://secure-web.cisco.com/15X3cucO7zUKG8KTbAc3uhFzD5ezcJrAxkNPCjxHs-laSVPIkB6x6_LV5MiwWCcQEdG-ibUB2wL2a8RhJ80ytY64wSsbX2h6c6A4jFJnen8hmTI1oAG8SIv2WIN0XSlHbOcmpea6xZakOwjuR4pWSZf9YBU97yyeKd_V7Yke62GZE-i8Orr1PHxJmj2_tgcwPDEazLO_nlyWlNBycPAELRB3RdOPsD_FsiIMkbvYKRzzXS1USZ1SoXUALPt-dqcf7YuG8hfe_M6t5609Fs3W1pwo56NY8CEmbopVBfbJqVtk7UZm0l7dKqKMw_rNRqgwWJ2Le1mMlGmNm9SMq9rdc549IAOpP6O3gyc-ZviyDmore9_ZQqOzVqRxqCgWueINa29e6_ZPsdyjv6q7O80n9gplBBnu6jGDO4um1CLQ0W6x_Wd9by6YXEu_l9Rmzlyf_/https%3A%2F%2Fapi.protonmail.ch%2Fpks%2Flookup%3Fop%3Dget%26search%3Dmarkjacobs%40protonmail.com
 

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ 

On Wednesday, February 17th, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Carmen Vitullo 
 wrote: 

> Thanks Bob, I'm sure that would work and I've provided other options to the 
> audit team but unfortunately they require us to use ISRDDN ONLY :( 
> 
> I told the audit team if they require you to use ISRDDN APF then they need to 
> provide the options to provide the output, this response did not go well :( 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> 
> From: Robert 01c91f408b9e-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu 
> 
> To: IBM-MAIN IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> 
> Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 8:51 AM CST 
> 
> Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 
> 
> SDSF's APF with the SNAP command? 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU On Behalf Of 
> Carmen Vitullo 
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 9:45 AM 
> 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> 
> Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 
> 
> We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
> and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
> output to a dataset? 
> 
> We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
> requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to 
> save the output, any ideas? 
> 
> thanks 
> 
> ---
>  
> 
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
> lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN 
> 
> ---
>  
> 
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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Seymour J Metz]

Their requirement is to read and trust airline magazines.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Mark Jacobs [0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 10:12 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Rhetorical question, is their requirement to only use ISRDDN related to "If the 
only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail" 
statement?

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
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‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Wednesday, February 17th, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Carmen Vitullo 
 wrote:

> Thanks Bob, I'm sure that would work and I've provided other options to the 
> audit team but unfortunately they require us to use ISRDDN ONLY :(
>
> I told the audit team if they require you to use ISRDDN APF then they need to 
> provide the options to provide the output, this response did not go well :(
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: Robert 01c91f408b9e-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu
>
> To: IBM-MAIN IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>
> Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 8:51 AM CST
>
> Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?
>
> SDSF's APF with the SNAP command?
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU On Behalf Of 
> Carmen Vitullo
>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 9:45 AM
>
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>
> Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?
>
> We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
> and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
> output to a dataset?
>
> We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
> requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to 
> save the output, any ideas?
>
> thanks
>
> ---
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
> lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> ---
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>
> 
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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Seymour J Metz]

ObDieJungfrauvonOrleans Do you have any channels for complaining about an 
incompetent audit team? ISRDDN is a wonderful tool for visually presenting 
data; it is not and was never intended to be a tool for collecting data for 
subsequent analysis. You could probably fudge it with dialog test, but a 
qualified auditor would not only permit but demand that you use an appropriate 
tool for the job.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Carmen Vitullo [cvitu...@hughes.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 9:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset?
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas?
thanks

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

I got ya and agree 100%, these folks are not IBM Mainframe literate, they know 
enough to make life miserable for the team.  
my suggestion was if they require you to use ISRDDN (the Hammer) they should 
tell you how to fix a flat tire with said hammer :) 
or produce the desired output they require with said hammer. 
   
Carmen Vitullo 

   

-Original Message-

From: Mark <0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 9:13 AM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

Rhetorical question, is their requirement to only use ISRDDN related to "If the 
only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail" 
statement? 

Mark Jacobs 

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email. 

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com 

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ 

On Wednesday, February 17th, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Carmen Vitullo 
 wrote: 

> Thanks Bob, I'm sure that would work and I've provided other options to the 
> audit team but unfortunately they require us to use ISRDDN ONLY :(  
> 
> I told the audit team if they require you to use ISRDDN APF then they need to 
> provide the options to provide the output, this response did not go well :( 
> 
>   
> 
>   
> 
>   
> 
> -Original Message- 
> 
> From: Robert 01c91f408b9e-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu 
> 
> To: IBM-MAIN IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> 
> Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 8:51 AM CST 
> 
> Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 
> 
> SDSF's APF with the SNAP command? 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU On Behalf Of 
> Carmen Vitullo 
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 9:45 AM 
> 
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> 
> Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 
> 
> We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
> and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
> output to a dataset? 
> 
> We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
> requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to 
> save the output, any ideas? 
> 
> thanks 
> 
> ---
>  
> 
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
> lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN 
> 
> ---
>  
> 
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, 
> 
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN 
> 
> 
>  
> 
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> 
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN 

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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Mark Jacobs]

Rhetorical question, is their requirement to only use ISRDDN related to "If the 
only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail" 
statement?

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On Wednesday, February 17th, 2021 at 10:07 AM, Carmen Vitullo 
 wrote:

> Thanks Bob, I'm sure that would work and I've provided other options to the 
> audit team but unfortunately they require us to use ISRDDN ONLY :( 
>
> I told the audit team if they require you to use ISRDDN APF then they need to 
> provide the options to provide the output, this response did not go well :(
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: Robert 01c91f408b9e-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu
>
> To: IBM-MAIN IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>
> Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 8:51 AM CST
>
> Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?
>
> SDSF's APF with the SNAP command?
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU On Behalf Of 
> Carmen Vitullo
>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 9:45 AM
>
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>
> Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?
>
> We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
> and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
> output to a dataset?
>
> We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
> requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to 
> save the output, any ideas?
>
> thanks
>
> ---
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
> lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> ---
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> 
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>
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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

Thanks Bob, I'm sure that would work and I've provided other options to the 
audit team but unfortunately they require us to use ISRDDN ONLY :(   
I told the audit team if they require you to use ISRDDN APF then they need to 
provide the options to provide the output, this response did not go well :( 
  
   
  

   

-Original Message-

From: Robert <01c91f408b9e-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN 
Date: Wednesday, 17 February 2021 8:51 AM CST
Subject: Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

SDSF's APF with the SNAP command? 

-Original Message- 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo 
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 9:45 AM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output? 

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset? 
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas? 
thanks 

-- 
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Re: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Richards, Robert B. (CTR)]

SDSF's APF with the SNAP command?

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Carmen Vitullo
Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2021 9:45 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset? 
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas? 
thanks

--
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Anyway to save ISRDDN output?

[Carmen Vitullo]

We have a HI TRUST requirement to use ISRDDN (only) to report on APF datasets 
and other system information. Is there a way to invoke ISRDDN and save the 
output to a dataset? 
We've tried ISRDDN APF then save but it does not provide the APF info I 
requested. reading the find manual I don't see any options to allow us to save 
the output, any ideas? 
thanks

--
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