Re: Creating an SMP install tape

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 10:07:13 -0400, Phil Smith III  wrote:
>>...
>>Load modules and macros were in PDS form. It wasn't "difficult".
>
>Glad you found it thus. We found it tedious, with many un- or poorly 
>documented wrinkles, and the error messages are horrendous. While we've done 
>it for over a decade, and customers with SMP/E experience have no problem with 
>it, customers with less experience consistently need help navigating an 
>install. I think one of the worst aspects is the inconsistent support for 
>symbols, ...
>
SMP/E sorely lacks support for symbols.  This feels like the gem of an Idea.

>so sometimes you can just carefully document "Set this symbol to the HLQ of." 
>and other times it's "Find all the occurrences of XYZZY and change it to."
>
I wrote a single Edit macro for this, to be modified and applied to every
installation JCL member, which I supplied with the various XYZZY to
be replaced.  (I never mastered file tailoring.)  My development testing
process was:
3.17->View->[macro]->Submit->Cancel
Modify macro; rinse; repeat.

I never heard customer feedback, but I fear our support process insulated
programmers from customers.

One tester I talked to disdained my macro and made all the changes
"by hand".

All testers were terrified of 3.17 and did OGETX to a  PDS and worked
with that.

>Just feels half-baked, like they got it working and never went back and 
>finished it. But it does work.

-- 
gil

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Re: Creating an SMP install tape

[Phil Smith III]

Wayne Bickerdike wrote:
>I used to package a software product I maintained. It was a simple
>template. We built the SMPE zones, defined the FMID and APPLY / ACCEPT.
>Load modules and macros were in PDS form. It wasn't "difficult".

Glad you found it thus. We found it tedious, with many un- or poorly documented 
wrinkles, and the error messages are horrendous. While we've done it for over a 
decade, and customers with SMP/E experience have no problem with it, customers 
with less experience consistently need help navigating an install. I think one 
of the worst aspects is the inconsistent support for symbols, so sometimes you 
can just carefully document "Set this symbol to the HLQ of." and other times 
it's "Find all the occurrences of XYZZY and change it to."

Just feels half-baked, like they got it working and never went back and 
finished it. But it does work.


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Re: Creating an SMP install tape

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 07:00:29 +1000, Wayne Bickerdikewrote:

>I used to package a software product I maintained. It was a simple
>template. We built the SMPE zones, defined the FMID and APPLY / ACCEPT.
>Load modules and macros were in PDS form. It wasn't "difficult".
> 
Do you mean "totally copied libraries" 

as contrasted with ++PROGRAM MCS?

>Clem can email me off list if I can help.

-- 
gil

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Re: Creating an SMP install tape

[Wayne Bickerdike]

I used to package a software product I maintained. It was a simple
template. We built the SMPE zones, defined the FMID and APPLY / ACCEPT.
Load modules and macros were in PDS form. It wasn't "difficult".

Clem can email me off list if I can help.

On Thu, Aug 24, 2023 at 6:28 AM Phil Smith III  wrote:

> Clem Clarke wrote, in part:
> >I have some PDSes that need to be installed with SMP on Z/OS.
> > What would be the easiest way to create a files that can be installed
>
> >with SMP?
>
>
>
> As others have perhaps made clear, "SMP/E" and "easiest" do not belong in
> the same sentence, for the most part.
>
>
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Re: Creating an SMP install tape

[Phil Smith III]

Clem Clarke wrote, in part:
>I have some PDSes that need to be installed with SMP on Z/OS.
> What would be the easiest way to create a files that can be installed

>with SMP?

 

As others have perhaps made clear, "SMP/E" and "easiest" do not belong in the 
same sentence, for the most part.


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Re: Creating an SMP install tape - Thanks

[Clem Clarke]

Thank you all so much.

It seems that there is a very good reason for leaving it as unloaded 
PDSes.  XMIT is good.


And so it shall remain!!!  (Well for the time being, anyway).

I will look into the other (non SMP) ways.  It works now. So that's fine.

Many thanks again,

Clem Clarke

Keith Gooding wrote:

Some sites do not have dfdss.

A common non-SMPE method is to use the XMIT command to convert each library 
into a sequential file, copy all of these XMIT datasets into a PDS and then run 
XMIT again to convert the PDS into a sequential file. To unpack you run RECEIVE 
to create the PDS of XMIT files then RECEIVE again for each member.

Or you could create a Portable Software Instance using an SMPE utility - this 
can be unpacked using z/OSMF (which runs an SMPE utility).


On 23 Aug 2023, at 07:52, Colin Paice  wrote:

Ive blogged

about using DFDSS to backup datasets.
You may then want to use AMATERSE to terse it.

I have some JCL to restore an MQ package
//S1  EXEC PGM=AMATERSE,PARM=UNPACK
//SYSPRINT DD  SYSOUT=*
//SYSUT1 DD DISP=SHR,DSN=COLIN.MQ933.TRS
//SYSUT2 DD DSN=&,SPACE=(CYL,(100,100)),DISP=(,PASS),
// VOL=SER=(C4USS2,C4USS1),UNIT=3390,STORCLAS=SCNOSMS

//S2EXEC PGM=ADRDSSU,REGION=0M
//SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*
//DD1  DD DISP=SHR,DSN=*.S1.SYSUT2
//SYSINDD *
   RESTORE -
   IMPORT -
   INDDNAME(DD1) -
   CANCELERROR -
   DATASET(INCLUDE(**)) -
   RENAMEU( -
  (**.SCSQANLC,COLIN.MQ930.SCSQANLC) -
  ...
  (**.SCSQTBLU,COLIN.MQ930.SCSQTBLU) -
  ) -
  SHARE -
  NULLMGMTCLAS -
  NULLSTORCLAS -
  CATALOG
//*

This is s  much easier than trying to use SMP/E

Colin


On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 at 07:30, Jon Perryman  wrote:

Since you don't have a good understanding of SMP/e, you might want to
consider DFDSS instead of SMP/e.
Creating a function is the easy part. SMP/e is a philosophy that requires
planning, setup and tools. Are you going to apply PTF's and apars, need
SMP/e zones, UCLIN, JCLIN, link to modules, object modules and much more.
If you have a problem with pre and coreqs, do you have the skills to
resolve it.

On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 04:12:03 AM PDT, Clem Clarke <
clementcla...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

I have some PDSes that need to be installed with SMP on Z/OS.

A couple are text files, one an object file and one a load module PDS.
They all have multiple members.

What would be the easiest way to create a files that can be installed
with SMP?

Many thanks,

Clem Clarke

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Re: Creating an SMP install tape

[Keith Gooding]

Some sites do not have dfdss.

A common non-SMPE method is to use the XMIT command to convert each library 
into a sequential file, copy all of these XMIT datasets into a PDS and then run 
XMIT again to convert the PDS into a sequential file. To unpack you run RECEIVE 
to create the PDS of XMIT files then RECEIVE again for each member.

Or you could create a Portable Software Instance using an SMPE utility - this 
can be unpacked using z/OSMF (which runs an SMPE utility).

> On 23 Aug 2023, at 07:52, Colin Paice  wrote:
> 
> Ive blogged
> 
> about using DFDSS to backup datasets.
> You may then want to use AMATERSE to terse it.
> 
> I have some JCL to restore an MQ package
> //S1  EXEC PGM=AMATERSE,PARM=UNPACK
> //SYSPRINT DD  SYSOUT=*
> //SYSUT1 DD DISP=SHR,DSN=COLIN.MQ933.TRS
> //SYSUT2 DD DSN=&,SPACE=(CYL,(100,100)),DISP=(,PASS),
> // VOL=SER=(C4USS2,C4USS1),UNIT=3390,STORCLAS=SCNOSMS
> 
> //S2EXEC PGM=ADRDSSU,REGION=0M
> //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*
> //DD1  DD DISP=SHR,DSN=*.S1.SYSUT2
> //SYSINDD *
>   RESTORE -
>   IMPORT -
>   INDDNAME(DD1) -
>   CANCELERROR -
>   DATASET(INCLUDE(**)) -
>   RENAMEU( -
>  (**.SCSQANLC,COLIN.MQ930.SCSQANLC) -
>  ...
>  (**.SCSQTBLU,COLIN.MQ930.SCSQTBLU) -
>  ) -
>  SHARE -
>  NULLMGMTCLAS -
>  NULLSTORCLAS -
>  CATALOG
> //*
> 
> This is s  much easier than trying to use SMP/E
> 
> Colin
> 
>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 at 07:30, Jon Perryman  wrote:
>> 
>> Since you don't have a good understanding of SMP/e, you might want to
>> consider DFDSS instead of SMP/e.
>> Creating a function is the easy part. SMP/e is a philosophy that requires
>> planning, setup and tools. Are you going to apply PTF's and apars, need
>> SMP/e zones, UCLIN, JCLIN, link to modules, object modules and much more.
>> If you have a problem with pre and coreqs, do you have the skills to
>> resolve it.
>> 
>>On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 04:12:03 AM PDT, Clem Clarke <
>> clementcla...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>> 
>> I have some PDSes that need to be installed with SMP on Z/OS.
>> 
>> A couple are text files, one an object file and one a load module PDS.
>> They all have multiple members.
>> 
>> What would be the easiest way to create a files that can be installed
>> with SMP?
>> 
>> Many thanks,
>> 
>> Clem Clarke
>> 
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Re: Creating an SMP install tape

[Colin Paice]

Ive blogged

about using DFDSS to backup datasets.
You may then want to use AMATERSE to terse it.

I have some JCL to restore an MQ package
//S1  EXEC PGM=AMATERSE,PARM=UNPACK
//SYSPRINT DD  SYSOUT=*
//SYSUT1 DD DISP=SHR,DSN=COLIN.MQ933.TRS
//SYSUT2 DD DSN=&,SPACE=(CYL,(100,100)),DISP=(,PASS),
// VOL=SER=(C4USS2,C4USS1),UNIT=3390,STORCLAS=SCNOSMS

//S2EXEC PGM=ADRDSSU,REGION=0M
//SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*
//DD1  DD DISP=SHR,DSN=*.S1.SYSUT2
//SYSINDD *
   RESTORE -
   IMPORT -
   INDDNAME(DD1) -
   CANCELERROR -
   DATASET(INCLUDE(**)) -
   RENAMEU( -
  (**.SCSQANLC,COLIN.MQ930.SCSQANLC) -
  ...
  (**.SCSQTBLU,COLIN.MQ930.SCSQTBLU) -
  ) -
  SHARE -
  NULLMGMTCLAS -
  NULLSTORCLAS -
  CATALOG
//*

This is s  much easier than trying to use SMP/E

Colin

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 at 07:30, Jon Perryman  wrote:

>  Since you don't have a good understanding of SMP/e, you might want to
> consider DFDSS instead of SMP/e.
> Creating a function is the easy part. SMP/e is a philosophy that requires
> planning, setup and tools. Are you going to apply PTF's and apars, need
> SMP/e zones, UCLIN, JCLIN, link to modules, object modules and much more.
> If you have a problem with pre and coreqs, do you have the skills to
> resolve it.
>
> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 04:12:03 AM PDT, Clem Clarke <
> clementcla...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
>  I have some PDSes that need to be installed with SMP on Z/OS.
>
> A couple are text files, one an object file and one a load module PDS.
> They all have multiple members.
>
> What would be the easiest way to create a files that can be installed
> with SMP?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Clem Clarke
>
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>
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Re: Creating an SMP install tape

[Jon Perryman]

 Since you don't have a good understanding of SMP/e, you might want to consider 
DFDSS instead of SMP/e. 
Creating a function is the easy part. SMP/e is a philosophy that requires 
planning, setup and tools. Are you going to apply PTF's and apars, need SMP/e 
zones, UCLIN, JCLIN, link to modules, object modules and much more. 
If you have a problem with pre and coreqs, do you have the skills to resolve it.

On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 04:12:03 AM PDT, Clem Clarke 
 wrote:  
 
 I have some PDSes that need to be installed with SMP on Z/OS.

A couple are text files, one an object file and one a load module PDS.  
They all have multiple members.

What would be the easiest way to create a files that can be installed 
with SMP?

Many thanks,

Clem Clarke

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Re: Creating an SMP install tape

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 14:09:25 +, Kurt Quackenbush wrote:

>> I have some PDSes that need to be installed with SMP on Z/OS.
>
>> A couple are text files, one an object file and one a load module PDS. They 
>> all have multiple members.
>
>> What would be the easiest way to create a files that can be installed with 
>> SMP?
>
Things toconsider:
o Have your build tools parameterized/reusable for building future releases.
o Be prepared to deliver incremental service via PTF.  (But we had one
  subcontractor who supplied everything as ++PROGRAM MCS, with no
  allowance for finer granularity service.)

Is tape a requirement?  Consider the alternative of making your product
available on an FTP site for RECEIVE FROMNETWORK, built with GIMZIP.

For a while, constrained by a non-mainframe-oriented Corporate Standard
that all products and service be delivered in .zip files, I elected to provide
a .zip containing a  pre-built SMPNTS plus installation JCL.  One customer
complained that they would prefer a collection of TSO TRANSMIT unloaded
libraries,  and provided an example of an IBM product packaged in that
fashion (it was a recent corporate acquisition.)  We were able to resist --
not enough resources to accommodate everybody.)

Practice installing a FUNCTION then PTFS for a small test case that
you built.

>Its unclear to me exactly what you need help with.  Are you familiar with 
>SMP/E at all?  Have you already created a ++FUNCTION SYSMOD and just need to 
>associate that with your data set contents?  This may be overkill, but here's 
>the gospel for packaging a software product for SMP/E:
>https://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/gimpkg80.pdf

-- 
gil

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Re: Creating an SMP install tape

[Kurt Quackenbush]

> I have some PDSes that need to be installed with SMP on Z/OS.

> A couple are text files, one an object file and one a load module PDS. They 
> all have multiple members.

> What would be the easiest way to create a files that can be installed with 
> SMP?

Its unclear to me exactly what you need help with.  Are you familiar with SMP/E 
at all?  Have you already created a ++FUNCTION SYSMOD and just need to 
associate that with your data set contents?  This may be overkill, but here's 
the gospel for packaging a software product for SMP/E:
https://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/epubs/pdf/gimpkg80.pdf

Kurt Quackenbush
IBM  |  z/OS SMP/E and z/OSMF Software Management  |  ku...@us.ibm.com

Chuck Norris never uses CHECK when he applies PTFs.

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Re: Creating an SMP install tape

[Mike Shaw]

On Tue, Aug 22, 2023, 7:11 AM Clem Clarke 
wrote:

> <...snip...>
>
> What would be the easiest way to create a files that can be installed
> with SMP?



You can use the FROMDS(... ) operand
>
In a function SYSMOD to identify an existing PDSE or PDS on DASD containing
the load modules and other elements of your FUNCTION SYSMOD.

SMP/E MCS usage is a complex topic. You need to read up on ++JCLIN, ++MOD
and ++SRC MCS statements in the SMP/E reference manual.

Mike Shaw
MVS/QuickRef Support Group
Chicago-Soft, Ltd.

>

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Re: Creating an SMP install tape

[Tom Marchant]

I assume you mean SMP/E.

GIMZIP can be used to create a file that can be processed with SMP/E 
RECEIVEFROMNTS. The file is created in the Unix filesystem and can be 
transferred to another system using your favorite mechanism.

Of course, you will also have to code a SYSMOD with all the necessary 
Modification Control Statements to describe what needs to be done to install 
it. This is part of the input to GIMZIP.

-- 
Tom Marchant

On Tue, 22 Aug 2023 21:11:18 +1000, Clem Clarke  
wrote:

>I have some PDSes that need to be installed with SMP on Z/OS.
>
>A couple are text files, one an object file and one a load module PDS. 
>They all have multiple members.
>
>What would be the easiest way to create a files that can be installed
>with SMP?

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Re: Creating an SMP install tape

[Mark Jacobs]

IEBCOPY unload comes to mind.

Mark Jacobs

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com


--- Original Message ---
On Tuesday, August 22nd, 2023 at 7:11 AM, Clem Clarke 
 wrote:


> I have some PDSes that need to be installed with SMP on Z/OS.
> 
> A couple are text files, one an object file and one a load module PDS.
> They all have multiple members.
> 
> What would be the easiest way to create a files that can be installed
> with SMP?
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> Clem Clarke
> 
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Creating an SMP install tape

[Clem Clarke]

I have some PDSes that need to be installed with SMP on Z/OS.

A couple are text files, one an object file and one a load module PDS.  
They all have multiple members.


What would be the easiest way to create a files that can be installed 
with SMP?


Many thanks,

Clem Clarke

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