Re: Net nanny voodoo [was: RE: Assembler courses]

2022-09-18 Thread Tony Harminc 
On Sun, 18 Sept 2022 at 12:16, Farley, Peter x23353 <
031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Wow, talk about "nanny state" link protection - have a gander at the
> hugely complex mess that René's perfectly reasonable links to the IDCP and
> Marist copies of Mr. Ehrman's opus turned into below.  Someone else's web
> link safety filter added "https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com";
> around René's link and then my employer's filter added "
> https://urldefense.com/v3"; around that filter.
>
> I know it is important to keep the untrained masses from clicking on
> dangerous links, but this is getting really ridiculous.
>

As I've suggested here before, I think LSOFT could provide some good added
value by removing as many layers of this crud as possible - certainly for
anything that goes in the archives. The safelinks and urldefense ones
contain the original URL only lighly obfuscated, and so could be easily
dealt with. (In fact there is a site https://www.o365atp.com that
deobfuscates the Microsoft ones, and I think I've seen one also for
urldefense.com .)

I suppose they have to worry that someone will sue them if a "bad" URL
creeps through. The main thing that would suffer from inaccuracy is
discussions like this of these very problems!

Tony H.

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Net nanny voodoo [was: RE: Assembler courses]

2022-09-18 Thread Paul Gilmartin 
On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 16:35:57 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Net Nannies embody an advanced technology known as Artificial Stupidity (AS); 
>this same technology can be seen in rext to voice and voice to text features, 
>as well as in filters that block legitimate medical sites while failing to 
>block some pornographic sites. In this case I believe that the damage was 
>cause by the URL rewriting in GMU's email server. And, no, there is no way to 
>turn it off.
>
Where's rot13 when you need it?  And in days of yore I was accustomed to
seeing writers penetrate (euphemism) nannies by encrypting message bodies
and simply appending the decryption keys in the clear.

>Well thought out security measures are a blessing; shooting from the hip is a 
>curse. Sort of like auditors, when they are good they are very, very good, and 
>when they are bad they are horrid.
>
It would be less computational cost for nannies to verify blessed URLs and
pass them on untransformed.  But then they wouldn't be able to track the
recipients.  Similarly for URL shorteners: what's the likely business model
for providers of such services?

-- 
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Net nanny voodoo [was: RE: Assembler courses]

2022-09-18 Thread Paul Gilmartin 
On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 18:51:56 +, Robert Prins wrote:

>And ahem, human (self-censored) is not trimming the whole fluckin' mess
>when you reply to posts.
>
Ergonomics.  It wastes time and energy to press the Delete key
so many times.

And it may be illegal to remove the originator's legal notice or to
provide a quotation out of context.  And some readers are unaware
of the Archives.

-- 
gil

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Net nanny voodoo [was: RE: Assembler courses]

2022-09-18 Thread Robert Prins 
And ahem, human (self-censored) is not trimming the whole fluckin' mess
when you reply to posts.

Robert
-- 
Robert AH Prins
robert(a)prino(d)org
The hitchhiking grandfather 
Some REXX code for use on z/OS


--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: Net nanny voodoo [was: RE: Assembler courses]

2022-09-18 Thread Seymour J Metz 
Net Nannies embody an advanced technology known as Artificial Stupidity (AS); 
this same technology can be seen in rext to voice and voice to text features, 
as well as in filters that block legitimate medical sites while failing to 
block some pornographic sites. In this case I believe that the damage was cause 
by the URL rewriting in GMU's email server. And, no, there is no way to turn it 
off.

Well thought out security measures are a blessing; shooting from the hip is a 
curse. Sort of like auditors, when they are good they are very, very good, and 
when they are bad they are horrid.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Farley, Peter x23353 [031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 12:15 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Net nanny voodoo [was: RE: Assembler courses]

Wow, talk about "nanny state" link protection - have a gander at the hugely 
complex mess that René's perfectly reasonable links to the IDCP and Marist 
copies of Mr. Ehrman's opus turned into below.  Someone else's web link safety 
filter added "https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com"; around René's 
link and then my employer's filter added " 
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CV3RpwL6t7MZPGZcN8Utx2gCZKqPLTx1iFGwVkGWpgYveQ8nayN6dvptBZ_hyoVz-pRMje8ao7ZpGAXg_FJ4jhfoMfQ_40PFkOLJ58f7CFq2tqV8hN3VexA6QuDwJKoLcD0BJ-dvkop6qquiDoLC1rJPi4r1BEnyNAkT46LWdDBlUlRyV70ODznIQwitABH-2J0UO9daQCY_VAZ1rhYajV7DGnxa9n_cv5nOyo2RoDP_8eDFc1BFcEkPfgumQkJghZToYtb_HKDBxsXmX8DMb97NepIJYjGl-0w2DMr-3sjyFW2Dxes9uNPzm9X1-KFcVFjZhl6RezQrPKpWixz1VZ2O4GKWRjOK2hdWCvK2kmeIJt8N3x1Kk6TFU4MnNGOw_9NRanzQl7LM3vsmbxCQCIRCs27-kmk_FGvl0v3WvfYauFrAVYNK4euY9UdpiXqrHCEAnCiZNWDN-hJ08HzhMQ/https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3";
 around that filter.

I know it is important to keep the untrained masses from clicking on dangerous 
links, but this is getting really ridiculous.

Strangely, I can only see René's actual email to the list on the IBM-MAIN 
archive.  I never received it here, and it did not wind up in my employer's 
email filter cache (off-prem quarantine of just plain junk and actually 
dangerous emails).  I only received Seymour's response to René's message.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 10:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Assembler courses

I haven't read it, but surely nobody could question the credentials of the 
author (ז״ל). I miss him.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
https://secure-web.cisco.com/11HIy9-D0NNoIroFkGAgm9wFzXjVNB-0r0G3BobT9Fmi5Vx7wlaGVjd-zEg4r_CHMrF5Sx-JYAa4Lm3ouhBAcBU5xncOzedYpQv18SRk4mjIiW6O6qNXBksUfdF8x7WTLjfoHoSrliXT829YTLzk57tbJIT2YYrwi9bRjvV0jyn68vW6rRiUoaG-gGWNfguiq-cRhPL04bUPY29Tj9Y2aND49VbZZa9ZcGBdf-XPj-qfZjp0YdbUGaNnwXUQCwa-Bpdo0GmQyQp1dkSX_7MdW5SQF7WzdGECuXWy9WVY61W1ctD5VS4Ka5wummd3keeaHeaFg0Y1-Q5-rF0i2P_J8NyAPejoT7BRh3dsZ_tw-CxHunKG7xmpy8ZohpsAIwIm7hs-rUiU_SUrmk9kGSMsPs_DwtDsr-Qkw5pK2gh1iBjKz0Pltya9HjlzC1zDxm3IfIb1gxTWa-rESXzBfVatHoA/https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Fmason.gmu.edu%2F%2Asmetz3__%3Bfg%21%21Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg%21ImPNbMPUrUVpkPeOd2RbYZN1oF-ZEdWfIW9gt1rwgJYYfJKHkammPPpw_A4YtbGJGiCOG2-BZIOB8Q4AmqG0LA%24


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
René Jansen [rene.vincent.jan...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 9:21 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Assembler courses

I don’t know if someone on the assembler list mentioned this already, but 
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1XRm4nx9OjGCoTXFTwQ9_ryvBzB3Vi6bvgTSf0L36Us2w7mNS3nUvU6kC9GlIb0sieZjIM2gygrNcL7yuoQkzaq6E3ns1-YHo0DWYgKKBwoavzLGg3U6IOzH4c_hLFrm-XufhT2y9-VWNEuLdie2mOCBNl_9KJGvx390uCwljuA55p8-O2m6CQZqS-aedy-uAgJl-lammHDE1B-PK2eUUrxzW8XJ0LRpOMr-BM1Y1UXZ0iJHZjzTDS3UCjCWfut-O7dtkDGHhTfyHm73BjP0G6BsaEjsuhxcOM0yLWAevRHIP5EcLxGi6mNS9G9GutjNn3A3M7IxrPnngVzY-XeiicdzV-t3eRwTLzyxIkpaGOSXYkaLndqMAuagieP6gQrWUxP1q0b_m8R1e3IrRNNJjTyDwREY9dxoJlu-RKmvzDuMwCKZAL88uaFoZ9vGp1otNbpU1MoK8_IfKx9XY2x8tuQ/https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%2A3A%2A2F%2A2Fidcp.marist.edu%2A2Fdocuments%2A2F33945%2A2F44724%2A2FAssembler.V2.alntext%2A2BV2.00.pdf%2A2Fad61965e-8485-65e1-f385-e5cd56f08c63%2A3Ft%2A3D1551806232272%26data%3D05%2A7C01%2A7Csmetz3%2A40gmu.edu%2A7Ca8141b8f50784d579bf208da9978d579%2A7C9e857255df574c47a0c00546460380cb%2A7C0%2A7C0%2A7C637991043314749524%2A7CUnknown%2A7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%2A3D%2A7C3000%2A7C%2A7C%2A7C%26sdata%3Dc0XkXdhzNBoLf%2A2Bu1AjGbrI9WXLtivAFVMotq8J32cc0%2A3D%26reserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ%21%21Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg%21ImPN

Net nanny voodoo [was: RE: Assembler courses]

2022-09-18 Thread Farley, Peter x23353 
Wow, talk about "nanny state" link protection - have a gander at the hugely 
complex mess that René's perfectly reasonable links to the IDCP and Marist 
copies of Mr. Ehrman's opus turned into below.  Someone else's web link safety 
filter added "https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com"; around René's 
link and then my employer's filter added " https://urldefense.com/v3"; around 
that filter.

I know it is important to keep the untrained masses from clicking on dangerous 
links, but this is getting really ridiculous.

Strangely, I can only see René's actual email to the list on the IBM-MAIN 
archive.  I never received it here, and it did not wind up in my employer's 
email filter cache (off-prem quarantine of just plain junk and actually 
dangerous emails).  I only received Seymour's response to René's message.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 10:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Assembler courses

I haven't read it, but surely nobody could question the credentials of the 
author (ז״ל). I miss him.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mason.gmu.edu/*smetz3__;fg!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!ImPNbMPUrUVpkPeOd2RbYZN1oF-ZEdWfIW9gt1rwgJYYfJKHkammPPpw_A4YtbGJGiCOG2-BZIOB8Q4AmqG0LA$
  


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
René Jansen [rene.vincent.jan...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 9:21 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Assembler courses

I don’t know if someone on the assembler list mentioned this already, but 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fidcp.marist.edu*2Fdocuments*2F33945*2F44724*2FAssembler.V2.alntext*2BV2.00.pdf*2Fad61965e-8485-65e1-f385-e5cd56f08c63*3Ft*3D1551806232272&data=05*7C01*7Csmetz3*40gmu.edu*7Ca8141b8f50784d579bf208da9978d579*7C9e857255df574c47a0c00546460380cb*7C0*7C0*7C637991043314749524*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*7C*7C*7C&sdata=c0XkXdhzNBoLf*2Bu1AjGbrI9WXLtivAFVMotq8J32cc0*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!ImPNbMPUrUVpkPeOd2RbYZN1oF-ZEdWfIW9gt1rwgJYYfJKHkammPPpw_A4YtbGJGiCOG2-BZIOB8Q6vStHKog$
   
 should be everything you need, and it’s free! Plus other resources on 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fidcp.marist.edu*2Fassembler-resources&data=05*7C01*7Csmetz3*40gmu.edu*7Ca8141b8f50784d579bf208da9978d579*7C9e857255df574c47a0c00546460380cb*7C0*7C0*7C637991043314749524*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*7C*7C*7C&sdata=fIPsXHRJZ4VJO1kJdZzNvg*2FZCiI63Nb1yEpcTW49QQo*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Ebr-cpPeAnfNniQ8HSAI-g_K5b7VKg!ImPNbMPUrUVpkPeOd2RbYZN1oF-ZEdWfIW9gt1rwgJYYfJKHkammPPpw_A4YtbGJGiCOG2-BZIOB8Q4zauEFww$
   
.

Actually, it is so good that I tried to get the bookie source to modernise it a 
bit - make it searchable etc. I called John’s old boss and department … but 
it’s complicated …

Best regards,.

René.

> On 18 Sep 2022, at 15:11, Bob Bridges  wrote:
>
> Twenty years ago I wrote a few programs for Excel, and didn't see what 
> all the fuss was about: "object-oriented" didn't seem very different 
> from traditional programming that I'd been doing for 25 years.  (At 
> the same time I was frequently infuriated at the message "...does not 
> support this property or method", exactly because I ~didn't~ 
> understand what was different about OO codi