Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION

[esmie moo]

Thanks for clearing it up.  Sometimes I have a problem understanding IBM speak.

On Mon, 12/5/16, Robert2 Gensler <rgen...@us.ibm.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Received: Monday, December 5, 2016, 3:41 PM
 
 Hi Esmie,
 
 Yes, for all intents and
 purposes this means FlashCopy.
 
 Robert
 DFSMSdss Architecture
 and Development
 Tucson, AZ
 1-720-349-5211
 rgen...@us.ibm.com
 
 IBM Mainframe Discussion List
 <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
 wrote on
 12/05/2016 10:20:10 AM:
 
 > From: esmie moo <012780d99c7b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 > Date: 12/05/2016 10:20 AM
 > Subject: Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
 > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
 <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
 >
 > Good Morning Gentle
 Readers,
 >
 > Thanks
 very much for answering my question.  All your input has
 > afforded me additional knowledge aboug
 FLASHCOPY.
 >
 > Robert,
 I checked your suggestion about looking for ADR806I.  It
 > does appear on the output which confirms
 what you said:
 >
 >
 ADR806I (001)-T0MI (02), VOLUME SBR000 WAS COPIED USING A
 FAST
 > REPLICATION FUNCTION.
 >
 > Thanks for the tip. 
 Just to clear up my understanding, does FAST
 > REPLICATION FUNCTION mean the same as
 FLASHCOPY?
 >
 > Thanks
 again.
 >
 --------
 > On Sun, 12/4/16, Robert2 Gensler <rgen...@us.ibm.com>
 wrote:
 >
 >  Subject:
 Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
 >  To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 >  Received: Sunday, December 4, 2016, 8:37
 PM
 >
 >  Hi Esmie,
 >
 >  DFSMSdss will
 notify you if
 >  FlashCopy was used by
 issuing an ADR806I in the
 >  sysprint
 output.  You do not see any evidence
 > 
 in the sysin because, by
 >  default,
 COPY
 >  operations use what is called
 FastReplication(PREFERRED).
 >  There is
 a FASTREPLICATION keyword on the copy
 > 
 command that has three
 >  different
 >  sub-parameters.  You can read about the
 details in the
 >  manual.
 >  FCNC is another parameter that
 >  controls how the FlashCopy is made, but
 it
 >  does not control whether or not
 FlashCopy is
 >  used.  That is
 controlled by
 >  the
 >  FASTREPLICATION keyword (or default). 
 Typically FCNC is
 >  used when you
 >  are going to dump the target
 >  of the FlashCopy to tape and in the
 course of
 >  that DUMP command you
 withdraw the original
 >  relationship
 with the
 >  FCWITHDRAW keyword.
 >  Another keyword to investigate using is
 DEBUG(FRMSG
 >  (...)) because if
 FlashCopy was not used, the
 > 
 DEBUG(FRMSG(...))
 >  specification will
 control
 >  how detailed the returned
 information is.
 >
 > 
 Thanks,
 >  Robert
 > 
 DFSMSdss Architecture
 >  and
 Development
 >  Tucson, AZ
 >  1-720-349-5211
 >  rgen...@us.ibm.com
 >
 >  IBM Mainframe
 Discussion List
 >  <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
 >  wrote on
 > 
 12/03/2016 08:58:21 AM:
 >
 >  > From: esmie moo <012780d99c7b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
 >  > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 >  > Date: 12/03/2016 09:01 AM
 >  > Subject: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
 >  > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion
 List
 >  <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
 >  >
 >  > Gentle
 Readers,
 >  >
 > 
 > I have a question
 >  about
 FLASHCOPY using  ADRDSSU and COPY.  In my
 >  > first example I was told that the
 job is
 >  using FLASHCOPY.  However
 I
 >  > do not see
 >  any evidence.
 > 
 >
 >  >
 >  COPY
 FULL INDYNAM (SDB000) OUTDYNAM (MDB000)
 >  DUMPCONDITIONING
 > 
 > ADR101I (R/I)-RI01
 >  (01), TASKID
 001 HAS BEEN ASSIGNED TO COMMAND 'COPY
 >  '
 >  >
 >  > From my
 > 
 understanding it is performing a full volume copy of a
 >  > source volume.  If my
 understanding of
 >  the parm
 DUMPCONDITIONING is
 >  > correct,
 >  it (DUMPCONDITIONING) allows to make a
 copy of the source
 >  > volume and
 while keeping the target volume
 > 
 online.
 >  >
 > 
 > I have
 >  done a full volume copy
 of a source to target without the
 > 
 > DUMPCONDITIONING parm and it worked - the
 >  volume was fully copied
 >  > (see below).
 > 
 Am I missing something? Aren't both examples doing
 >  the
 >  > same
 thing?
 >  >
 > 
 >   COPY  INDDNAME(DASD1)
 > 
 OUTDDNAME(DASD2) -
 > 
 >   ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP COPYVOLID
 >  PURGE
 >  > /*
 >  >
 >  > However
 I do not see any evidence of
 > 
 FLASHCOPY being invoked because
 >  >
 the
 >  FCNC parm is not present.
 >  >
 >  > Here is
 a my second example:
 >  >
 >  >  COPY FULL
 > 
 IDY(PROM70,3390) ODY(SNAP63,

Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION

[Robert2 Gensler]

Hi Esmie,

Yes, for all intents and purposes this means FlashCopy.

Robert
DFSMSdss Architecture and Development
Tucson, AZ
1-720-349-5211
rgen...@us.ibm.com

IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> wrote on
12/05/2016 10:20:10 AM:

> From: esmie moo <012780d99c7b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date: 12/05/2016 10:20 AM
> Subject: Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
> Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
>
> Good Morning Gentle Readers,
>
> Thanks very much for answering my question.  All your input has
> afforded me additional knowledge aboug FLASHCOPY.
>
> Robert, I checked your suggestion about looking for ADR806I.  It
> does appear on the output which confirms what you said:
>
> ADR806I (001)-T0MI (02), VOLUME SBR000 WAS COPIED USING A FAST
> REPLICATION FUNCTION.
>
> Thanks for the tip.  Just to clear up my understanding, does FAST
> REPLICATION FUNCTION mean the same as FLASHCOPY?
>
> Thanks again.
> --------
> On Sun, 12/4/16, Robert2 Gensler <rgen...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
>  To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>  Received: Sunday, December 4, 2016, 8:37 PM
>
>  Hi Esmie,
>
>  DFSMSdss will notify you if
>  FlashCopy was used by issuing an ADR806I in the
>  sysprint output.  You do not see any evidence
>  in the sysin because, by
>  default, COPY
>  operations use what is called FastReplication(PREFERRED).
>  There is a FASTREPLICATION keyword on the copy
>  command that has three
>  different
>  sub-parameters.  You can read about the details in the
>  manual.
>  FCNC is another parameter that
>  controls how the FlashCopy is made, but it
>  does not control whether or not FlashCopy is
>  used.  That is controlled by
>  the
>  FASTREPLICATION keyword (or default).  Typically FCNC is
>  used when you
>  are going to dump the target
>  of the FlashCopy to tape and in the course of
>  that DUMP command you withdraw the original
>  relationship with the
>  FCWITHDRAW keyword.
>  Another keyword to investigate using is DEBUG(FRMSG
>  (...)) because if FlashCopy was not used, the
>  DEBUG(FRMSG(...))
>  specification will control
>  how detailed the returned information is.
>
>  Thanks,
>  Robert
>  DFSMSdss Architecture
>  and Development
>  Tucson, AZ
>  1-720-349-5211
>  rgen...@us.ibm.com
>
>  IBM Mainframe Discussion List
>  <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
>  wrote on
>  12/03/2016 08:58:21 AM:
>
>  > From: esmie moo <012780d99c7b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
>  > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>  > Date: 12/03/2016 09:01 AM
>  > Subject: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
>  > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
>  <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
>  >
>  > Gentle Readers,
>  >
>  > I have a question
>  about FLASHCOPY using  ADRDSSU and COPY.  In my
>  > first example I was told that the job is
>  using FLASHCOPY.  However I
>  > do not see
>  any evidence.
>  >
>  >
>  COPY FULL INDYNAM (SDB000) OUTDYNAM (MDB000)
>  DUMPCONDITIONING
>  > ADR101I (R/I)-RI01
>  (01), TASKID 001 HAS BEEN ASSIGNED TO COMMAND 'COPY
>  '
>  >
>  > From my
>  understanding it is performing a full volume copy of a
>  > source volume.  If my understanding of
>  the parm DUMPCONDITIONING is
>  > correct,
>  it (DUMPCONDITIONING) allows to make a copy of the source
>  > volume and while keeping the target volume
>  online.
>  >
>  > I have
>  done a full volume copy of a source to target without the
>  > DUMPCONDITIONING parm and it worked - the
>  volume was fully copied
>  > (see below).
>  Am I missing something? Aren't both examples doing
>  the
>  > same thing?
>  >
>  >   COPY  INDDNAME(DASD1)
>  OUTDDNAME(DASD2) -
>  >   ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP COPYVOLID
>  PURGE
>  > /*
>  >
>  > However I do not see any evidence of
>  FLASHCOPY being invoked because
>  > the
>  FCNC parm is not present.
>  >
>  > Here is a my second example:
>  >
>  >  COPY FULL
>  IDY(PROM70,3390) ODY(SNAP63,3390) DUMPCOND FCNC-
>  > ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP CANCELERROR PURGE
>  FCTOPPRCPRIMARY -
>  >
>  FCSETGTOK(FAILRELATION)
>  >
>  > In the above example FLASCHOPY is being
>  performed because of the FCNC.
>  >
>  > Could you correct my understanding of all
>  3 examples?
>  >
>  >
>  Thanks.
>  >
>  >
>  --
>  > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive
>  access ins

Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

I looked back at one my lightning fast Mod-27 volume copy jobs and indeed found 

   ADR806I (001)-T0MI (02), VOLUME vv WAS COPIED USING A FAST REPLICATION 
FUNCTION

I'm told that this indicates usage of the 'fast copy' microcode, available only 
when copying within the same DASD subsystem. Once the job began execution, all 
time stamps show 08.41.54 from start to finish. Now that's what I call fast. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of esmie moo
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2016 7:20 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION

Good Morning Gentle Readers,

Thanks very much for answering my question.  All your input has afforded me 
additional knowledge aboug FLASHCOPY.

Robert, I checked your suggestion about looking for ADR806I.  It does appear on 
the output which confirms what you said:

ADR806I (001)-T0MI (02), VOLUME SBR000 WAS COPIED USING A FAST REPLICATION 
FUNCTION.  

Thanks for the tip.  Just to clear up my understanding, does FAST REPLICATION 
FUNCTION mean the same as FLASHCOPY?

Thanks again. 

On Sun, 12/4/16, Robert2 Gensler <rgen...@us.ibm.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Received: Sunday, December 4, 2016, 8:37 PM
 
 Hi Esmie,
 
 DFSMSdss will notify you if
 FlashCopy was used by issuing an ADR806I in the  sysprint output.  You do not 
see any evidence  in the sysin because, by  default, COPY  operations use what 
is called FastReplication(PREFERRED).
 There is a FASTREPLICATION keyword on the copy  command that has three  
different  sub-parameters.  You can read about the details in the  manual.
 FCNC is another parameter that
 controls how the FlashCopy is made, but it  does not control whether or not 
FlashCopy is  used.  That is controlled by  the  FASTREPLICATION keyword (or 
default).  Typically FCNC is  used when you  are going to dump the target  of 
the FlashCopy to tape and in the course of  that DUMP command you withdraw the 
original  relationship with the  FCWITHDRAW keyword.  Another keyword to 
investigate using is DEBUG(FRMSG
 (...)) because if FlashCopy was not used, the
 DEBUG(FRMSG(...))
 specification will control
 how detailed the returned information is.
 
 Thanks,
 Robert
 DFSMSdss Architecture
 and Development
 Tucson, AZ
 1-720-349-5211
 rgen...@us.ibm.com
 
 IBM Mainframe Discussion List
 <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
 wrote on
 12/03/2016 08:58:21 AM:
 
 > From: esmie moo <012780d99c7b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 > Date: 12/03/2016 09:01 AM
 > Subject: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
 > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>  >  > 
 > Gentle Readers,  >  > I have a question  about FLASHCOPY using  ADRDSSU and 
 > COPY.  In my  > first example I was told that the job is  using FLASHCOPY.  
 > However I  > do not see  any evidence.
 >
 >
 COPY FULL INDYNAM (SDB000) OUTDYNAM (MDB000)  DUMPCONDITIONING  > ADR101I 
(R/I)-RI01  (01), TASKID 001 HAS BEEN ASSIGNED TO COMMAND 'COPY  '
 >
 > From my
 understanding it is performing a full volume copy of a  > source volume.  If 
my understanding of  the parm DUMPCONDITIONING is  > correct,  it 
(DUMPCONDITIONING) allows to make a copy of the source  > volume and while 
keeping the target volume  online.
 >
 > I have
 done a full volume copy of a source to target without the  > DUMPCONDITIONING 
parm and it worked - the  volume was fully copied  > (see below).  Am I missing 
something? Aren't both examples doing  the  > same thing?
 >
 >   COPY  INDDNAME(DASD1)
 OUTDDNAME(DASD2) -
 >   ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP COPYVOLID
 PURGE
 > /*
 >
 > However I do not see any evidence of
 FLASHCOPY being invoked because
 > the
 FCNC parm is not present.
 >
 > Here is a my second example:
 >
 >  COPY FULL
 IDY(PROM70,3390) ODY(SNAP63,3390) DUMPCOND FCNC-  > ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP 
CANCELERROR PURGE  FCTOPPRCPRIMARY -  >
 FCSETGTOK(FAILRELATION)
 >
 > In the above example FLASCHOPY is being  performed because of the FCNC.
 >
 > Could you correct my understanding of all
 3 examples?
 >
 >
 Thanks.


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For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION

[esmie moo]

Joel,

Thanks for helping me understand DUMPCONDITIONING.  With your help I am able to 
increase my understanding.

On Sat, 12/3/16, Joel C. Ewing <jcew...@acm.org> wrote:

 Subject: Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Received: Saturday, December 3, 2016, 11:18 AM
 
 On 12/03/2016 07:58 AM, esmie moo
 wrote:
 > Gentle Readers,
 >
 > I have a question about FLASHCOPY using  ADRDSSU
 and COPY.  In my first example I was told that the job
 is using FLASHCOPY.  However I do not see any
 evidence.
 >
 >  COPY FULL INDYNAM (SDB000) OUTDYNAM (MDB000)
 DUMPCONDITIONING       
    
 > ADR101I (R/I)-RI01 (01), TASKID 001 HAS BEEN ASSIGNED
 TO COMMAND 'COPY ' 
 >
 > >From my understanding it is performing a full
 volume copy of a source volume.  If my understanding of
 the parm DUMPCONDITIONING is correct, it (DUMPCONDITIONING)
 allows to make a copy of the source volume and while keeping
 the target volume online.
 >
 > I have done a full volume copy of a source to target
 without the DUMPCONDITIONING parm and it worked - the volume
 was fully copied (see below).  Am I missing something?
 Aren't both examples doing the same thing?   
                
                 
 >               
                
         
 >   COPY  INDDNAME(DASD1)
 OUTDDNAME(DASD2) -           
        
 >   ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP COPYVOLID
 PURGE               
          
 > /*             
                
                
              
 >
 > However I do not see any evidence of FLASHCOPY being
 invoked because the FCNC parm is not present.
 >
 > Here is a my second example:
 >
 >  COPY FULL IDY(PROM70,3390) ODY(SNAP63,3390)
 DUMPCOND FCNC- 
 > ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP CANCELERROR PURGE FCTOPPRCPRIMARY
 -     
 > FCSETGTOK(FAILRELATION)   
    
 >
 > In the above example FLASCHOPY is being performed
 because of the FCNC.  
 >
 > Could you correct my understanding of all 3 examples?
 >
 > Thanks.
 >
 >
 If you do a full volume copy without DUMPCONDITIONING and
 with
 COPYVOLID, that means when the copy is complete the target
 volume will
 now have the same VOLSER as the source volume and dss will
 force it
 offline, as you can't have two volumes with identical VOLSER
 online to
 the same MVS system.   If your goal was just
 to make a point-in-time
 copy on DASD, that may be sufficient.  But if your goal
 was to then back
 up that target volume to  removable tape media, you
 would not be able to
 do that with dss from the same system because the volume is
 offline
 because of the duplicate VOLSER.  It also means that if
 you for some
 reason needed to IPL at that point, the system will complain
 about
 finding two volumes with the same VOLSER and there could be
 some
 confusion about which of the two volumes should be placed
 online and the
 wrong one could be chosen. 
 
 With DUMPCONDITIONING the original different target volume
 VOLSER is
 preserved so both volumes can be online to the same system
 and there is
 no later confusion about which is the original and which is
 the
 point-in-time copy.  DSS is smart enough when restoring
 from a tape dump
 of the volume with the DUMPCONDITIONING copy to also restore
 the
 original VOLSER (this used to require either an VTOCINDEX or
 VVDS
 dataset on the volume to supply the correct VOLSER).  
 
 There are other vendor utilities that will allow one to dump
 an offline
 DASD volume with a duplicate volser to tape, but this seems
 to me a
 perversion of the meaning of "offline", which was intended
 to mean
 access by the system was impossible and that the device
 could safely be
 taken physically offline for hardware maintenance.
 
 Assuming there is still a dss FASTREPLICATION parameter, it
 used to
 default to "PREFERRED", which meant if flashcopy wasn't
 available for
 some reason, dss would default to an ordinary copy but still
 do the COPY
 command successfully (just m-u-c-h slower).  If you
 wanted the copy to
 fail if flashcopy were not possible, you had to explicitly
 request
 FASTREPLICATION(REQUIRED).  It should be obvious from
 the time required
 for the COPY command to complete whether flashcopy has been
 used:  a
 fraction of a second for the dss COPY command to complete
 with fastcopy,
 versus minutes without fastcopy.
     Joel C. Ewing
 
 
 -- 
 Joel C. Ewing,    Bentonville, AR   
    jcew...@acm.org   
 
 
 --
 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access
 instructions,
 send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu
 with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
 

--
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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION

[esmie moo]

Good Morning Gentle Readers,

Thanks very much for answering my question.  All your input has afforded me 
additional knowledge aboug FLASHCOPY.

Robert, I checked your suggestion about looking for ADR806I.  It does appear on 
the output which confirms what you said:

ADR806I (001)-T0MI (02), VOLUME SBR000 WAS COPIED USING A FAST REPLICATION 
FUNCTION.  

Thanks for the tip.  Just to clear up my understanding, does FAST REPLICATION 
FUNCTION mean the same as FLASHCOPY?

Thanks again. 

On Sun, 12/4/16, Robert2 Gensler <rgen...@us.ibm.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Received: Sunday, December 4, 2016, 8:37 PM
 
 Hi Esmie,
 
 DFSMSdss will notify you if
 FlashCopy was used by issuing an ADR806I in the
 sysprint output.  You do not see any evidence
 in the sysin because, by
 default, COPY
 operations use what is called FastReplication(PREFERRED).
 There is a FASTREPLICATION keyword on the copy
 command that has three
 different
 sub-parameters.  You can read about the details in the
 manual.
 FCNC is another parameter that
 controls how the FlashCopy is made, but it
 does not control whether or not FlashCopy is
 used.  That is controlled by
 the
 FASTREPLICATION keyword (or default).  Typically FCNC is
 used when you
 are going to dump the target
 of the FlashCopy to tape and in the course of
 that DUMP command you withdraw the original
 relationship with the
 FCWITHDRAW keyword. 
 Another keyword to investigate using is DEBUG(FRMSG
 (...)) because if FlashCopy was not used, the
 DEBUG(FRMSG(...))
 specification will control
 how detailed the returned information is.
 
 Thanks,
 Robert
 DFSMSdss Architecture
 and Development
 Tucson, AZ
 1-720-349-5211
 rgen...@us.ibm.com
 
 IBM Mainframe Discussion List
 <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
 wrote on
 12/03/2016 08:58:21 AM:
 
 > From: esmie moo <012780d99c7b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 > Date: 12/03/2016 09:01 AM
 > Subject: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
 > Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
 <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
 >
 > Gentle Readers,
 >
 > I have a question
 about FLASHCOPY using  ADRDSSU and COPY.  In my
 > first example I was told that the job is
 using FLASHCOPY.  However I
 > do not see
 any evidence.
 >
 > 
 COPY FULL INDYNAM (SDB000) OUTDYNAM (MDB000)
 DUMPCONDITIONING
 > ADR101I (R/I)-RI01
 (01), TASKID 001 HAS BEEN ASSIGNED TO COMMAND 'COPY
 '
 >
 > From my
 understanding it is performing a full volume copy of a
 > source volume.  If my understanding of
 the parm DUMPCONDITIONING is
 > correct,
 it (DUMPCONDITIONING) allows to make a copy of the source
 > volume and while keeping the target volume
 online.
 >
 > I have
 done a full volume copy of a source to target without the
 > DUMPCONDITIONING parm and it worked - the
 volume was fully copied
 > (see below). 
 Am I missing something? Aren't both examples doing
 the
 > same thing?
 >
 >   COPY  INDDNAME(DASD1)
 OUTDDNAME(DASD2) -
 >   ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP COPYVOLID
 PURGE
 > /*
 >
 > However I do not see any evidence of
 FLASHCOPY being invoked because
 > the
 FCNC parm is not present.
 >
 > Here is a my second example:
 >
 >  COPY FULL
 IDY(PROM70,3390) ODY(SNAP63,3390) DUMPCOND FCNC-
 > ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP CANCELERROR PURGE
 FCTOPPRCPRIMARY -
 >
 FCSETGTOK(FAILRELATION)
 >
 > In the above example FLASCHOPY is being
 performed because of the FCNC.
 >
 > Could you correct my understanding of all
 3 examples?
 >
 >
 Thanks.
 >
 >
 --
 > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive
 access instructions,
 > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu
 with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
 >
 
 --
 For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive
 access instructions,
 send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu
 with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION

[Robert2 Gensler]

Hi Esmie,

DFSMSdss will notify you if FlashCopy was used by issuing an ADR806I in the
sysprint output.  You do not see any evidence in the sysin because, by
default, COPY operations use what is called FastReplication(PREFERRED).
There is a FASTREPLICATION keyword on the copy command that has three
different sub-parameters.  You can read about the details in the manual.
FCNC is another parameter that controls how the FlashCopy is made, but it
does not control whether or not FlashCopy is used.  That is controlled by
the FASTREPLICATION keyword (or default).  Typically FCNC is used when you
are going to dump the target of the FlashCopy to tape and in the course of
that DUMP command you withdraw the original relationship with the
FCWITHDRAW keyword.  Another keyword to investigate using is DEBUG(FRMSG
(...)) because if FlashCopy was not used, the DEBUG(FRMSG(...))
specification will control how detailed the returned information is.

Thanks,
Robert
DFSMSdss Architecture and Development
Tucson, AZ
1-720-349-5211
rgen...@us.ibm.com

IBM Mainframe Discussion List  wrote on
12/03/2016 08:58:21 AM:

> From: esmie moo <012780d99c7b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Date: 12/03/2016 09:01 AM
> Subject: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
> Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
>
> Gentle Readers,
>
> I have a question about FLASHCOPY using  ADRDSSU and COPY.  In my
> first example I was told that the job is using FLASHCOPY.  However I
> do not see any evidence.
>
>  COPY FULL INDYNAM (SDB000) OUTDYNAM (MDB000) DUMPCONDITIONING
> ADR101I (R/I)-RI01 (01), TASKID 001 HAS BEEN ASSIGNED TO COMMAND 'COPY '
>
> From my understanding it is performing a full volume copy of a
> source volume.  If my understanding of the parm DUMPCONDITIONING is
> correct, it (DUMPCONDITIONING) allows to make a copy of the source
> volume and while keeping the target volume online.
>
> I have done a full volume copy of a source to target without the
> DUMPCONDITIONING parm and it worked - the volume was fully copied
> (see below).  Am I missing something? Aren't both examples doing the
> same thing?
>
>   COPY  INDDNAME(DASD1) OUTDDNAME(DASD2) -
>   ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP COPYVOLID PURGE
> /*
>
> However I do not see any evidence of FLASHCOPY being invoked because
> the FCNC parm is not present.
>
> Here is a my second example:
>
>  COPY FULL IDY(PROM70,3390) ODY(SNAP63,3390) DUMPCOND FCNC-
> ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP CANCELERROR PURGE FCTOPPRCPRIMARY -
> FCSETGTOK(FAILRELATION)
>
> In the above example FLASCHOPY is being performed because of the FCNC.
>
> Could you correct my understanding of all 3 examples?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION

[Jesse 1 Robinson]

I don't know of any overt sign of flash copy invocation, but for me there is 
strong circumstantial evidence: lightning fast volume copy. We periodically 
migrate maintenance via full DSS volume copy. Done this for years. Then one 
time the copy job ran in only seconds instead of minutes. I thought for sure 
something had failed. Nope, all was A-OK. It happened that the source and 
target volumes were in the same DS8* DASD subsystem with the flash copy feature 
installed, so (I was told) flash copy got invoked automatically. When we copy 
between DASD subsystems, it still takes minutes. 

BTW I have a narrower view of 'online/offline' than Joel does. I take 'online' 
to be an MVS status involving OS control blocks. A volume is either online or 
offline on that basis. The trouble with bringing in 'reachable' is that it 
introduces a scale of 'accessibility' with many nuances. Is the device 
physically connected at all? If it is connected, is it genned to a chpid? If it 
is genned, is the chpid in the access list for that LPAR? If it is not in the 
list, can the IODF be updated to include it? These questions all cloud the 
issue. So, a volume is either online or offline to the OS at any given moment. 
Duplicate volsers are not allowed to be OS-online concurrently. No other 
restrictions. 

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-302-7535 Office
robin...@sce.com


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Joel C. Ewing
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2016 8:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION

On 12/03/2016 07:58 AM, esmie moo wrote:
> Gentle Readers,
>
> I have a question about FLASHCOPY using  ADRDSSU and COPY.  In my first 
> example I was told that the job is using FLASHCOPY.  However I do not see any 
> evidence.
>
>  COPY FULL INDYNAM (SDB000) OUTDYNAM (MDB000) DUMPCONDITIONING   
> ADR101I (R/I)-RI01 (01), TASKID 001 HAS BEEN ASSIGNED TO COMMAND 'COPY ' 
>
> >From my understanding it is performing a full volume copy of a source 
> >volume.  If my understanding of the parm DUMPCONDITIONING is correct, it 
> >(DUMPCONDITIONING) allows to make a copy of the source volume and while 
> >keeping the target volume online.
>
> I have done a full volume copy of a source to target without the 
> DUMPCONDITIONING parm and it worked - the volume was fully copied (see 
> below).  Am I missing something? Aren't both examples doing the same thing?   
>  
>
>   COPY  INDDNAME(DASD1) OUTDDNAME(DASD2) -   
>   ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP COPYVOLID PURGE 
> /*   
>
> However I do not see any evidence of FLASHCOPY being invoked because the FCNC 
> parm is not present.
>
> Here is a my second example:
>
>  COPY FULL IDY(PROM70,3390) ODY(SNAP63,3390) DUMPCOND FCNC- 
> ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP CANCELERROR PURGE FCTOPPRCPRIMARY - 
> FCSETGTOK(FAILRELATION)   
>
> In the above example FLASCHOPY is being performed because of the FCNC.  
>
> Could you correct my understanding of all 3 examples?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
If you do a full volume copy without DUMPCONDITIONING and with COPYVOLID, that 
means when the copy is complete the target volume will now have the same VOLSER 
as the source volume and dss will force it offline, as you can't have two 
volumes with identical VOLSER online to
the same MVS system.   If your goal was just to make a point-in-time
copy on DASD, that may be sufficient.  But if your goal was to then back up 
that target volume to  removable tape media, you would not be able to do that 
with dss from the same system because the volume is offline because of the 
duplicate VOLSER.  It also means that if you for some reason needed to IPL at 
that point, the system will complain about finding two volumes with the same 
VOLSER and there could be some confusion about which of the two volumes should 
be placed online and the wrong one could be chosen. 

With DUMPCONDITIONING the original different target volume VOLSER is preserved 
so both volumes can be online to the same system and there is no later 
confusion about which is the original and which is the point-in-time copy.  DSS 
is smart enough when restoring from a tape dump of the volume with the 
DUMPCONDITIONING copy to also restore the original VOLSER (this used to require 
either an VTOCINDEX or VVDS dataset on the volume to supply the correct 
VOLSER).  

There are other vendor utilities that will allow one to dump an offline DASD 
volume with a duplicate volser to tape, but this seems to me a perversion of 
the meaning of "offline", which was i

Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION

[Joel C. Ewing]

On 12/03/2016 07:58 AM, esmie moo wrote:
> Gentle Readers,
>
> I have a question about FLASHCOPY using  ADRDSSU and COPY.  In my first 
> example I was told that the job is using FLASHCOPY.  However I do not see any 
> evidence.
>
>  COPY FULL INDYNAM (SDB000) OUTDYNAM (MDB000) DUMPCONDITIONING   
> ADR101I (R/I)-RI01 (01), TASKID 001 HAS BEEN ASSIGNED TO COMMAND 'COPY ' 
>
> >From my understanding it is performing a full volume copy of a source 
> >volume.  If my understanding of the parm DUMPCONDITIONING is correct, it 
> >(DUMPCONDITIONING) allows to make a copy of the source volume and while 
> >keeping the target volume online.
>
> I have done a full volume copy of a source to target without the 
> DUMPCONDITIONING parm and it worked - the volume was fully copied (see 
> below).  Am I missing something? Aren't both examples doing the same thing?   
>  
>
>   COPY  INDDNAME(DASD1) OUTDDNAME(DASD2) -   
>   ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP COPYVOLID PURGE 
> /*   
>
> However I do not see any evidence of FLASHCOPY being invoked because the FCNC 
> parm is not present.
>
> Here is a my second example:
>
>  COPY FULL IDY(PROM70,3390) ODY(SNAP63,3390) DUMPCOND FCNC- 
> ALLDATA(*) ALLEXCP CANCELERROR PURGE FCTOPPRCPRIMARY - 
> FCSETGTOK(FAILRELATION)   
>
> In the above example FLASCHOPY is being performed because of the FCNC.  
>
> Could you correct my understanding of all 3 examples?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
If you do a full volume copy without DUMPCONDITIONING and with
COPYVOLID, that means when the copy is complete the target volume will
now have the same VOLSER as the source volume and dss will force it
offline, as you can't have two volumes with identical VOLSER online to
the same MVS system.   If your goal was just to make a point-in-time
copy on DASD, that may be sufficient.  But if your goal was to then back
up that target volume to  removable tape media, you would not be able to
do that with dss from the same system because the volume is offline
because of the duplicate VOLSER.  It also means that if you for some
reason needed to IPL at that point, the system will complain about
finding two volumes with the same VOLSER and there could be some
confusion about which of the two volumes should be placed online and the
wrong one could be chosen. 

With DUMPCONDITIONING the original different target volume VOLSER is
preserved so both volumes can be online to the same system and there is
no later confusion about which is the original and which is the
point-in-time copy.  DSS is smart enough when restoring from a tape dump
of the volume with the DUMPCONDITIONING copy to also restore the
original VOLSER (this used to require either an VTOCINDEX or VVDS
dataset on the volume to supply the correct VOLSER).  

There are other vendor utilities that will allow one to dump an offline
DASD volume with a duplicate volser to tape, but this seems to me a
perversion of the meaning of "offline", which was intended to mean
access by the system was impossible and that the device could safely be
taken physically offline for hardware maintenance.

Assuming there is still a dss FASTREPLICATION parameter, it used to
default to "PREFERRED", which meant if flashcopy wasn't available for
some reason, dss would default to an ordinary copy but still do the COPY
command successfully (just m-u-c-h slower).  If you wanted the copy to
fail if flashcopy were not possible, you had to explicitly request
FASTREPLICATION(REQUIRED).  It should be obvious from the time required
for the COPY command to complete whether flashcopy has been used:  a
fraction of a second for the dss COPY command to complete with fastcopy,
versus minutes without fastcopy.
Joel C. Ewing


-- 
Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR   jcew...@acm.org 

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Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION

[esmie moo]

Rex,

Thanks for the explanation.  So as not to clutter the board I will take this 
offline.

On Tue, 7/19/16, Pommier, Rex <rpomm...@sfgmembers.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Received: Tuesday, July 19, 2016, 9:14 AM
 
 Esmie,
 
 Let me give it a try.  I
 think you're getting confused due to terminology and
 different views of the copies.  From a z/OS point of view,
 both the examples you show are doing full volume copies of
 data from your IN to your OUT.  Once the job is done, you
 have 2 full copies of the data, one on each volume.  The
 difference is what's going on in the back-end disk
 array.  
 
 In example 1, you
 have FCNC which from the back-end array, the only thing that
 happens is that a set of pointers (a track table) gets built
 but no data gets copied.  The only time data gets
 physically copied from source to target is when either the
 source or target data track is changed.  If the source data
 gets changed, a copy of the track gets put on the target
 before the source is updated.  In case of the target
 getting updated, the changed data is written to the
 target.  If, for example, in this scenario you are doing
 this copy with the intent of doing a DUMP of the target to
 tape, most of the data for the DUMP is actually coming from
 the SOURCE, because unless the data changed, the SOURCE is
 the only place the physical data resides.
 
 In example 2, FCINCREMENTAL
 does NOT mean do an incremental backup.  FC/DFDSS does a
 full background copy of all the data from the source to the
 target.  It still looks like it ran really fast to z/OS
 because as soon as the track table is built on the array,
 the array signals to z/OS the backup is done.  However, the
 back end is still copying all the data to the target.  Why
 use FCINCR then?  Under normal FC processing, if you
 don't use FCNC, the background copy is initiated, and
 then once all the data is copied to the target, the
 relationship between source and target is terminated, and
 the 2 volumes are now stand-alone.  If FCINCR is specified
 like in your example, the relationship remains in place with
 the track table now indicating which tracks have changed
 since the FC ran.  If you then come along and run another
 COPY command with the same source and target, the array uses
 the track table and only updates the changed tracks, thus
 (potentially) significantly reducing the load on the array
 if there wasn't much change in the data.  
 
 So in short, FCNC only copies
 changed tracks from the source to the target, but FCINCR
 forces a full back-end copy of all the data from source to
 target on initial setup.  Note in the DFDSS manual is that
 FCNC and FCINCR are mutually exclusive.
 
 HTH,
 
 Rex
 
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
 On Behalf Of esmie moo
 Sent: Tuesday, July
 19, 2016 6:59 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: FLASHCOPY QUESTION
 
 Gentle Readers,
 
 I was wondering if any of you can clear up
 understating about FlashCopy.  In the following example 
 
 COPY INDYNAM(SYS012)
 OUTDYNAM(DCN00) CANCELERROR      -
  
    PURGE ALLEXCP ALLDATA(*) OPT(4) ADMIN FCNOCOPY
 -   
      DUMPCOND
 FR(REQ) DEBUG(FRMSG(DETAILED))            
  
 My understanding is that an
 Incremental copy is being performed because FCNOCPY is
 specified.  My understanding of Incremental is that only
 the updated tracks are copied over to the target volume. 
 Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
 Also, I have this example.  Is this for a FULL
 FlashCopy of a volume?  However, I am confused that the
 FCINCREMENTAL parm is specified which would indicate that
 this is an incremental copy
 
 COPY FULL INDYNAM(ZFSZ01) OUTDYNAM(ZWATP0) ALLE
 ALLD(*) -           
 FASTREPLICATION(REQUIRED) FCINCREMENTAL
 DUMPCONDITIONING ADMIN PURGE   
 
 Could someone clear up this
 for me?
 
 Thanks in
 advance.
 
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 may be legally privileged.  If the reader of this message
 is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent
 responsible for delivering this message to the intended
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Re: FLASHCOPY QUESTION

[Pommier, Rex]

Esmie,

Let me give it a try.  I think you're getting confused due to terminology and 
different views of the copies.  From a z/OS point of view, both the examples 
you show are doing full volume copies of data from your IN to your OUT.  Once 
the job is done, you have 2 full copies of the data, one on each volume.  The 
difference is what's going on in the back-end disk array.  

In example 1, you have FCNC which from the back-end array, the only thing that 
happens is that a set of pointers (a track table) gets built but no data gets 
copied.  The only time data gets physically copied from source to target is 
when either the source or target data track is changed.  If the source data 
gets changed, a copy of the track gets put on the target before the source is 
updated.  In case of the target getting updated, the changed data is written to 
the target.  If, for example, in this scenario you are doing this copy with the 
intent of doing a DUMP of the target to tape, most of the data for the DUMP is 
actually coming from the SOURCE, because unless the data changed, the SOURCE is 
the only place the physical data resides.

In example 2, FCINCREMENTAL does NOT mean do an incremental backup.  FC/DFDSS 
does a full background copy of all the data from the source to the target.  It 
still looks like it ran really fast to z/OS because as soon as the track table 
is built on the array, the array signals to z/OS the backup is done.  However, 
the back end is still copying all the data to the target.  Why use FCINCR then? 
 Under normal FC processing, if you don't use FCNC, the background copy is 
initiated, and then once all the data is copied to the target, the relationship 
between source and target is terminated, and the 2 volumes are now stand-alone. 
 If FCINCR is specified like in your example, the relationship remains in place 
with the track table now indicating which tracks have changed since the FC ran. 
 If you then come along and run another COPY command with the same source and 
target, the array uses the track table and only updates the changed tracks, 
thus (potentially) significantly reducing the load on the array if there wasn't 
much change in the data.  

So in short, FCNC only copies changed tracks from the source to the target, but 
FCINCR forces a full back-end copy of all the data from source to target on 
initial setup.  Note in the DFDSS manual is that FCNC and FCINCR are mutually 
exclusive.

HTH,

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of esmie moo
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2016 6:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: FLASHCOPY QUESTION

Gentle Readers,

I was wondering if any of you can clear up understating about FlashCopy.  In 
the following example 

COPY INDYNAM(SYS012) OUTDYNAM(DCN00) CANCELERROR  -
 PURGE ALLEXCP ALLDATA(*) OPT(4) ADMIN FCNOCOPY -   
 DUMPCOND FR(REQ) DEBUG(FRMSG(DETAILED))
 
My understanding is that an Incremental copy is being performed because FCNOCPY 
is specified.  My understanding of Incremental is that only the updated tracks 
are copied over to the target volume.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

Also, I have this example.  Is this for a FULL FlashCopy of a volume?  However, 
I am confused that the FCINCREMENTAL parm is specified which would indicate 
that this is an incremental copy

COPY FULL INDYNAM(ZFSZ01) OUTDYNAM(ZWATP0) ALLE ALLD(*) -   
FASTREPLICATION(REQUIRED) FCINCREMENTAL DUMPCONDITIONING ADMIN PURGE   

Could someone clear up this for me?

Thanks in advance.

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the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this 
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is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you have received this 
communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this 
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