Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[Mike Schwab]

Developement of the problematic engine.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/tech/volkswagen-diesel-emissions/


-- 
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[Mike Schwab]

Somebody (the plant manager) gets some serious jail time for knowingly
shipping contaminated peanuts that ended up killing 9 people (although
he wasn't charged with negligent homicide (yet)).

http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/former-peanut-exec-gets-years-in-prison-for-outbreak-that/article_563f8e6c-1421-5ede-8ef4-d269fd1cbdd6.html

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Paul Gilmartin
<000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 10:29:35 -0400, Tony Thigpen wrote:
>
>>Independent tester hired by third-party that wanted tougher standards.
>>
> I see:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#Defeat_device_scandal
>
> The EPA was alerted to the issue by the International Council on Clean 
> Transportation
> (ICCT), reporting the results of research done for them by the Center for 
> Alternative
> Fuels, Engines and Emissions (CAFEE), at the West Virginia University.  
> In 2014, CAFEE
> published a report about such research done for ICCT.
>
> (Others?)
>
>>They wanted to use VW as an example of what can be done with clean
>>diesel so as to force new rules on other car manufacturers.
>>
>>Big surprise. :-)
>>
> What legal protection should there be for employees threatened with job loss
> for refusing to further illegal acts of their employers, or for disclosing 
> such
> acts, possibly violating trade secret agreements?  Are existing protections
> effective and sufficient?
>
> -- gil
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[Ed Finnell]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/24/china-executes-2-people-o_n_368657.
html
 
 
In a message dated 9/22/2015 12:46:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
mike.a.sch...@gmail.com writes:

Somebody  (the plant manager) gets some serious jail time for knowingly
shipping  contaminated peanuts that ended up killing 9 people  (although


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Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[R.S.]

W dniu 2015-09-22 o 16:22, Bob Shannon pisze:

Like Charles said, there two sides, I'm keep wondering why it was done

I'm a former TDI owner (not the generation in question). Loved the car. Loved 
the engine. So, after investing a billion or so dollars in a new engine design 
VW finds it can either pass the emissions tests or achieve high (target) fuel 
mileage but not both. What do you do? This was a really cleaver solution, but I 
wonder how they got caught. VM has screwed the pooch as they are now back to 
the original problem without  solution.


Well, my company car is VW TDI. It's the worst car I used for years!
Software problems with "turbo" resulted with many, many visits in 
Service Station (half year old car). It took two months and hunderd 
pages of "tech help" printed to solve the issue.
Another problem: DPF (pollution filter) causes sometimes *big cloud* of 
white smoke! I submitted it as a failure, but after car was exmined I 
was informed "it works as it should".

(There are also other, minor issues)

To be a little bit on topic: I'm told VW is one of JES3 customers 
minority. ;-)


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






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Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 10:29:35 -0400, Tony Thigpen wrote:

>Independent tester hired by third-party that wanted tougher standards.
> 
I see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#Defeat_device_scandal

The EPA was alerted to the issue by the International Council on Clean 
Transportation
(ICCT), reporting the results of research done for them by the Center for 
Alternative
Fuels, Engines and Emissions (CAFEE), at the West Virginia University.  In 
2014, CAFEE
published a report about such research done for ICCT.

(Others?)

>They wanted to use VW as an example of what can be done with clean 
>diesel so as to force new rules on other car manufacturers.
>
>Big surprise. :-)
> 
What legal protection should there be for employees threatened with job loss
for refusing to further illegal acts of their employers, or for disclosing such
acts, possibly violating trade secret agreements?  Are existing protections
effective and sufficient?

-- gil

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Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[Scott Ford]

John,

Like Charles said, there two sides,I'm keep wondering why it was done. Was
it a hack or a statement of some sort. There's usually a reason for a
action..

Scott

On Tuesday, September 22, 2015, Tony Thigpen <t...@vse2pdf.com> wrote:

> Personally, it makes me want to go out and buy several of their cars. (I
> believe that the EPA needs to be reigned in.)
>
> And for all those who say "but it's cheating", think about your driving
> habits. Many of you will drive 80mph down a 70mph interstate knowing the
> odds that a cop will stop you is low. You factor in the chances of getting
> caught and decide that it's worth the risk. Someone at Volkswagen did a
> similar risk assessment. (Personally, I think it was a young programmer who
> had a little bit of hacker in him.)
>
> Tony Thigpen
>
> Charles Mills wrote on 09/22/2015 09:06 AM:
>
>> Volkswagen has now had a chance to tell the other side of the story -- and
>> there does not seem to be one. I find this story utterly incredible. That
>> a
>> Worldcom or an Enron or a Madoff would "improve" the books -- I find that
>> sadly typical of human nature. But that a publicly-traded, global company
>> would apparently order a team of programmers to design and write software
>> intended to deceive regulators and despoil the environment -- I find that
>> utterly incredible. Volkwagen's stock is down 40% if I understand the news
>> reports correctly. I wonder if they can -- I wonder if they should --
>> survive this.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
>> Behalf Of Charles Mills
>> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 1:05 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control
>> Systems
>>
>> I agree that the story as presented in the initial reports is pretty
>> damning. I would like to hear "the other side of the story." I think there
>> is at least some possibility that the intent of the programming was not
>> malicious and that either it has the unintended side effect that the EPA
>> has
>> alleged, or possibly that the EPA misinterpreted it altogether.
>> Overzealous
>> regulation and prosecution is not unprecedented nor unheard-of.
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[Tony Thigpen]

Independent tester hired by third-party that wanted tougher standards.

They wanted to use VW as an example of what can be done with clean 
diesel so as to force new rules on other car manufacturers.


Big surprise. :-)

Tony Thigpen

Bob Shannon wrote on 09/22/2015 10:22 AM:

Like Charles said, there two sides, I'm keep wondering why it was done


I'm a former TDI owner (not the generation in question). Loved the car. Loved 
the engine. So, after investing a billion or so dollars in a new engine design 
VW finds it can either pass the emissions tests or achieve high (target) fuel 
mileage but not both. What do you do? This was a really cleaver solution, but I 
wonder how they got caught. VM has screwed the pooch as they are now back to 
the original problem without  solution.

Bob Shannon
Rocket Software

Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
+1 800.966.3270 ■ +1 781.577.4321
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Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[Mike Schwab]

Manning / Assange / Snowden found out the effectiveness of
whistleblower protection laws from the U.S.

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Paul Gilmartin
<000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 10:29:35 -0400, Tony Thigpen wrote:
>
>>Independent tester hired by third-party that wanted tougher standards.
>>
> I see:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#Defeat_device_scandal
>
> The EPA was alerted to the issue by the International Council on Clean 
> Transportation
> (ICCT), reporting the results of research done for them by the Center for 
> Alternative
> Fuels, Engines and Emissions (CAFEE), at the West Virginia University.  
> In 2014, CAFEE
> published a report about such research done for ICCT.
>
> (Others?)
>
>>They wanted to use VW as an example of what can be done with clean
>>diesel so as to force new rules on other car manufacturers.
>>
>>Big surprise. :-)
>>
> What legal protection should there be for employees threatened with job loss
> for refusing to further illegal acts of their employers, or for disclosing 
> such
> acts, possibly violating trade secret agreements?  Are existing protections
> effective and sufficient?
>
> -- gil
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



-- 
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Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[Charles Mills]

Volkswagen has now had a chance to tell the other side of the story -- and
there does not seem to be one. I find this story utterly incredible. That a
Worldcom or an Enron or a Madoff would "improve" the books -- I find that
sadly typical of human nature. But that a publicly-traded, global company
would apparently order a team of programmers to design and write software
intended to deceive regulators and despoil the environment -- I find that
utterly incredible. Volkwagen's stock is down 40% if I understand the news
reports correctly. I wonder if they can -- I wonder if they should --
survive this.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Charles Mills
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 1:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control
Systems

I agree that the story as presented in the initial reports is pretty
damning. I would like to hear "the other side of the story." I think there
is at least some possibility that the intent of the programming was not
malicious and that either it has the unintended side effect that the EPA has
alleged, or possibly that the EPA misinterpreted it altogether. Overzealous
regulation and prosecution is not unprecedented nor unheard-of. 

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Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[Tony Thigpen]

Personally, it makes me want to go out and buy several of their cars. (I 
believe that the EPA needs to be reigned in.)


And for all those who say "but it's cheating", think about your driving 
habits. Many of you will drive 80mph down a 70mph interstate knowing the 
odds that a cop will stop you is low. You factor in the chances of 
getting caught and decide that it's worth the risk. Someone at 
Volkswagen did a similar risk assessment. (Personally, I think it was a 
young programmer who had a little bit of hacker in him.)


Tony Thigpen

Charles Mills wrote on 09/22/2015 09:06 AM:

Volkswagen has now had a chance to tell the other side of the story -- and
there does not seem to be one. I find this story utterly incredible. That a
Worldcom or an Enron or a Madoff would "improve" the books -- I find that
sadly typical of human nature. But that a publicly-traded, global company
would apparently order a team of programmers to design and write software
intended to deceive regulators and despoil the environment -- I find that
utterly incredible. Volkwagen's stock is down 40% if I understand the news
reports correctly. I wonder if they can -- I wonder if they should --
survive this.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Charles Mills
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 1:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control
Systems

I agree that the story as presented in the initial reports is pretty
damning. I would like to hear "the other side of the story." I think there
is at least some possibility that the intent of the programming was not
malicious and that either it has the unintended side effect that the EPA has
alleged, or possibly that the EPA misinterpreted it altogether. Overzealous
regulation and prosecution is not unprecedented nor unheard-of.

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Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[Bob Shannon]

> Like Charles said, there two sides, I'm keep wondering why it was done

I'm a former TDI owner (not the generation in question). Loved the car. Loved 
the engine. So, after investing a billion or so dollars in a new engine design 
VW finds it can either pass the emissions tests or achieve high (target) fuel 
mileage but not both. What do you do? This was a really cleaver solution, but I 
wonder how they got caught. VM has screwed the pooch as they are now back to 
the original problem without  solution.

Bob Shannon
Rocket Software

Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ 
+1 800.966.3270 ■ +1 781.577.4321
Unsubscribe From Commercial Email – unsubscr...@rocketsoftware.com
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Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[Tony Thigpen]

> (Others?)

Yes. Independent tester was CAFEE. Third-party who hired them was ICCT.

Tony Thigpen

Paul Gilmartin wrote on 09/22/2015 11:15 AM:

On Tue, 22 Sep 2015 10:29:35 -0400, Tony Thigpen wrote:


Independent tester hired by third-party that wanted tougher standards.


I see:
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#Defeat_device_scandal

 The EPA was alerted to the issue by the International Council on Clean 
Transportation
 (ICCT), reporting the results of research done for them by the Center for 
Alternative
 Fuels, Engines and Emissions (CAFEE), at the West Virginia University.  In 
2014, CAFEE
 published a report about such research done for ICCT.

(Others?)


They wanted to use VW as an example of what can be done with clean
diesel so as to force new rules on other car manufacturers.

Big surprise. :-)


What legal protection should there be for employees threatened with job loss
for refusing to further illegal acts of their employers, or for disclosing such
acts, possibly violating trade secret agreements?  Are existing protections
effective and sufficient?

-- gil

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Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[John P. Baker]

Scott,

I agree that ethics is a large part of it.

I will suggest that it is reasonable to anticipate that an attorney may well 
argue that the programmers in fact became co-conspirators by virtue of the fact 
that they cannot reasonably argue that they did not know that the code was 
intended to perpetuate a crime.

Whether that argument is made in this case or in some future case, I strongly 
believe that at some point it will be made, and that it is more likely to occur 
sooner than later.

I suggest that it would be better for the programming profession to take 
proactive steps to come up with ethical guidelines for members of our 
profession, rather than leaving it to government to do it, which as we all 
know, would not be in our best interests.

John P. Baker

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Scott Ford
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 11:20 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control 
Systems

This is a question of ethics and ones moral compass.

Regards,
Scott

On Friday, September 18, 2015, Richard Pinion <rpin...@netscape.com> wrote:

> I understand the point you are making, that an employee is told to do 
> something that they know is illegal or immoral, and they do it anyway.  
> Having worked for a non-profit health insurance company many, many 
> years ago, I was often asked if we intentionally programmed the system 
> to automatically reject a claim on first submission, regardless of 
> whether the claim met all criteria for processing.  I was never asked 
> to do that, nor was I aware of any such code within their claims 
> processing system.  Yet, the public perspective was that the company 
> did that.
>
> Not sure how that story fits into the discussion at hand, but it is 
> late in the day, and I'm looking for ways to fill my time until 
> "Miller" time.
>
> --- jba...@ngssallc.com <javascript:;> wrote:
>
> From: "John P. Baker" <jba...@ngssallc.com <javascript:;>>
> To:   IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <javascript:;>
> Subject: Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution 
> Control Systems
> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 16:54:45 -0400
>
> Richard,
>
> I think that there is a big difference here in that the programming 
> staff at Volkswagen, if the initial reports are accurate, could not 
> reasonably not have known that what they were coding was in furtherance of a 
> crime.
>
> John P. Baker
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
> <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Richard Pinion
> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 4:30 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <javascript:;>
> Subject: Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution 
> Control Systems
>
> As an employee of a company who deals with HIPPA controlled/protected 
> data, I feel very uncomfortable knowing that I can be charged either 
> with a civil or criminal violation in the event that HIPPA data, under 
> my control, is accidentally lost or stolen.  And I am not talking 
> about an intentional leak of protected patient information.  What 
> really floored me this year, when I took the yearly HIPPA 
> certification online class, was HIPPA is administered under the Office of 
> Civil Rights.
>
> Regardless of my personal political theology, it makes me 
> uncomfortable that if I offend a person or persons, the friendly 
> neighborhood OCR representative could be asked to "look at" my 
> activities as relating to HIPPA compliance.  I'm sure an unbiased and 
> diligent OCR employee might uncover some violation(s) if they 
> investigated long and hard enough.
>
> --- jba...@ngssallc.com <javascript:;> wrote:
>
> From: "John P. Baker" <jba...@ngssallc.com <javascript:;>>
> To:   IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <javascript:;>
> Subject: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control 
> Systems
> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 15:56:34 -0400
>
>
> http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2015/09/18/epa-says-vw-intention
> ally-v
> iolates-clean-air-standards/?intcmp=hpbt1
>
> In the referenced article, it is being reported that Volkswagen had 
> their programming staff intentionally program the computers 
> controlling the pollution control systems on certain 2008-2015 Audi 
> and Volkswagen diesel vehicles to activate the full pollution control 
> systems ONLY when the vehicle was undergoing official emissions 
> testing.  At all other times, the pollution control systems were 
> inactive and the vehicles were putting out emissions as high as 4

Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[Scott Ford]

This is a question of ethics and ones moral compass.

Regards,
Scott

On Friday, September 18, 2015, Richard Pinion <rpin...@netscape.com> wrote:

> I understand the point you are making, that an employee is told
> to do something that they know is illegal or immoral, and they
> do it anyway.  Having worked for a non-profit health insurance
> company many, many years ago, I was often asked if we intentionally
> programmed the system to automatically reject a claim on first
> submission, regardless of whether the claim met all criteria for
> processing.  I was never asked to do that, nor was I aware of
> any such code within their claims processing system.  Yet, the
> public perspective was that the company did that.
>
> Not sure how that story fits into the discussion at hand, but
> it is late in the day, and I'm looking for ways to fill my time
> until "Miller" time.
>
>
>
> --- jba...@ngssallc.com <javascript:;> wrote:
>
> From: "John P. Baker" <jba...@ngssallc.com <javascript:;>>
> To:   IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <javascript:;>
> Subject: Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control
> Systems
> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 16:54:45 -0400
>
> Richard,
>
> I think that there is a big difference here in that the programming staff
> at Volkswagen, if the initial reports are accurate, could not reasonably
> not have known that what they were coding was in furtherance of a crime.
>
> John P. Baker
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Richard Pinion
> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 4:30 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <javascript:;>
> Subject: Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control
> Systems
>
> As an employee of a company who deals with HIPPA controlled/protected
> data, I feel very uncomfortable knowing that I can be charged either with a
> civil or criminal violation in the event that HIPPA data, under my control,
> is accidentally lost or stolen.  And I am not talking about an intentional
> leak of protected patient information.  What really floored me this year,
> when I took the yearly HIPPA certification online class, was HIPPA is
> administered under the Office of Civil Rights.
>
> Regardless of my personal political theology, it makes me uncomfortable
> that if I offend a person or persons, the friendly neighborhood OCR
> representative could be asked to "look at" my activities as relating to
> HIPPA compliance.  I'm sure an unbiased and diligent OCR employee might
> uncover some violation(s) if they
> investigated long and hard enough.
>
> --- jba...@ngssallc.com <javascript:;> wrote:
>
> From: "John P. Baker" <jba...@ngssallc.com <javascript:;>>
> To:   IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <javascript:;>
> Subject: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control
> Systems
> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 15:56:34 -0400
>
>
> http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2015/09/18/epa-says-vw-intentionally-v
> iolates-clean-air-standards/?intcmp=hpbt1
>
> In the referenced article, it is being reported that Volkswagen had their
> programming staff intentionally program the computers controlling the
> pollution control systems on certain 2008-2015 Audi and Volkswagen diesel
> vehicles to activate the full pollution control systems ONLY when the
> vehicle was undergoing official emissions testing.  At all other times, the
> pollution control systems were inactive and the vehicles were putting out
> emissions as high as 40 times the legal limit.
>
> The company is facing $18 billion in fines.
>
> It is unclear whether the Volkswagen executives who directed the scheme
> will face criminal charges.
>
> It is also unclear whether the programming staff who wrote the code will
> face criminal charges.
>
> Even though this is not a mainframe issue, it is an issue that directly
> affects us and our industry.  Hackers are already a significant black eye.
> This is much worse.  It makes legitimate programmers look suspect.
>
> It raises the uncomfortable question of whether or not we can or should be
> held criminally liable if we are directed to code a program or a change to
> a program that we know would have the effect of violating the law and we
> then knowingly proceed to code that program or a change to a program.
>
> It has been suggested in the past that programmers should be licensed
> and/or bonded.
>
> I am not particularly fond of either idea.  However, I would like to hear
> what others think.
>
> John P. Baker
>
> ---

Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[Richard Pinion]

I understand the point you are making, that an employee is told
to do something that they know is illegal or immoral, and they 
do it anyway.  Having worked for a non-profit health insurance 
company many, many years ago, I was often asked if we intentionally
programmed the system to automatically reject a claim on first
submission, regardless of whether the claim met all criteria for
processing.  I was never asked to do that, nor was I aware of
any such code within their claims processing system.  Yet, the
public perspective was that the company did that.

Not sure how that story fits into the discussion at hand, but
it is late in the day, and I'm looking for ways to fill my time
until "Miller" time.



--- jba...@ngssallc.com wrote:

From: "John P. Baker" <jba...@ngssallc.com>
To:   IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control 
Systems
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 16:54:45 -0400

Richard,

I think that there is a big difference here in that the programming staff at 
Volkswagen, if the initial reports are accurate, could not reasonably not have 
known that what they were coding was in furtherance of a crime.

John P. Baker

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Richard Pinion
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 4:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control 
Systems

As an employee of a company who deals with HIPPA controlled/protected data, I 
feel very uncomfortable knowing that I can be charged either with a civil or 
criminal violation in the event that HIPPA data, under my control, is 
accidentally lost or stolen.  And I am not talking about an intentional leak of 
protected patient information.  What really floored me this year, when I took 
the yearly HIPPA certification online class, was HIPPA is administered under 
the Office of Civil Rights.

Regardless of my personal political theology, it makes me uncomfortable that if 
I offend a person or persons, the friendly neighborhood OCR representative 
could be asked to "look at" my activities as relating to HIPPA compliance.  I'm 
sure an unbiased and diligent OCR employee might uncover some violation(s) if 
they
investigated long and hard enough. 

--- jba...@ngssallc.com wrote:

From: "John P. Baker" <jba...@ngssallc.com>
To:   IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 15:56:34 -0400

http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2015/09/18/epa-says-vw-intentionally-v
iolates-clean-air-standards/?intcmp=hpbt1

In the referenced article, it is being reported that Volkswagen had their 
programming staff intentionally program the computers controlling the pollution 
control systems on certain 2008-2015 Audi and Volkswagen diesel vehicles to 
activate the full pollution control systems ONLY when the vehicle was 
undergoing official emissions testing.  At all other times, the pollution 
control systems were inactive and the vehicles were putting out emissions as 
high as 40 times the legal limit.

The company is facing $18 billion in fines.

It is unclear whether the Volkswagen executives who directed the scheme will 
face criminal charges.

It is also unclear whether the programming staff who wrote the code will face 
criminal charges.

Even though this is not a mainframe issue, it is an issue that directly affects 
us and our industry.  Hackers are already a significant black eye.
This is much worse.  It makes legitimate programmers look suspect.

It raises the uncomfortable question of whether or not we can or should be held 
criminally liable if we are directed to code a program or a change to a program 
that we know would have the effect of violating the law and we then knowingly 
proceed to code that program or a change to a program.

It has been suggested in the past that programmers should be licensed and/or 
bonded.

I am not particularly fond of either idea.  However, I would like to hear what 
others think.

John P. Baker

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Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[John P. Baker]

Richard,

I think that there is a big difference here in that the programming staff at 
Volkswagen, if the initial reports are accurate, could not reasonably not have 
known that what they were coding was in furtherance of a crime.

John P. Baker

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Richard Pinion
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 4:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control 
Systems

As an employee of a company who deals with HIPPA controlled/protected data, I 
feel very uncomfortable knowing that I can be charged either with a civil or 
criminal violation in the event that HIPPA data, under my control, is 
accidentally lost or stolen.  And I am not talking about an intentional leak of 
protected patient information.  What really floored me this year, when I took 
the yearly HIPPA certification online class, was HIPPA is administered under 
the Office of Civil Rights.

Regardless of my personal political theology, it makes me uncomfortable that if 
I offend a person or persons, the friendly neighborhood OCR representative 
could be asked to "look at" my activities as relating to HIPPA compliance.  I'm 
sure an unbiased and diligent OCR employee might uncover some violation(s) if 
they
investigated long and hard enough. 

--- jba...@ngssallc.com wrote:

From: "John P. Baker" <jba...@ngssallc.com>
To:   IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 15:56:34 -0400

http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2015/09/18/epa-says-vw-intentionally-v
iolates-clean-air-standards/?intcmp=hpbt1

In the referenced article, it is being reported that Volkswagen had their 
programming staff intentionally program the computers controlling the pollution 
control systems on certain 2008-2015 Audi and Volkswagen diesel vehicles to 
activate the full pollution control systems ONLY when the vehicle was 
undergoing official emissions testing.  At all other times, the pollution 
control systems were inactive and the vehicles were putting out emissions as 
high as 40 times the legal limit.

The company is facing $18 billion in fines.

It is unclear whether the Volkswagen executives who directed the scheme will 
face criminal charges.

It is also unclear whether the programming staff who wrote the code will face 
criminal charges.

Even though this is not a mainframe issue, it is an issue that directly affects 
us and our industry.  Hackers are already a significant black eye.
This is much worse.  It makes legitimate programmers look suspect.

It raises the uncomfortable question of whether or not we can or should be held 
criminally liable if we are directed to code a program or a change to a program 
that we know would have the effect of violating the law and we then knowingly 
proceed to code that program or a change to a program.

It has been suggested in the past that programmers should be licensed and/or 
bonded.

I am not particularly fond of either idea.  However, I would like to hear what 
others think.

John P. Baker

--
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_
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Re: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems

[Richard Pinion]

As an employee of a company who deals with HIPPA controlled/protected data, I 
feel
very uncomfortable knowing that I can be charged either with a civil or criminal
violation in the event that HIPPA data, under my control, is accidentally lost 
or
stolen.  And I am not talking about an intentional leak of protected patient
information.  What really floored me this year, when I took the yearly HIPPA
certification online class, was HIPPA is administered under the Office of Civil
Rights.

Regardless of my personal political theology, it makes me uncomfortable that
if I offend a person or persons, the friendly neighborhood OCR representative
could be asked to "look at" my activities as relating to HIPPA compliance.  I'm
sure an unbiased and diligent OCR employee might uncover some violation(s) if 
they
investigated long and hard enough. 



--- jba...@ngssallc.com wrote:

From: "John P. Baker" 
To:   IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Volkswagen Programmed Vehicle to Deactivate Pollution Control Systems
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 15:56:34 -0400

http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2015/09/18/epa-says-vw-intentionally-v
iolates-clean-air-standards/?intcmp=hpbt1

 

In the referenced article, it is being reported that Volkswagen had their
programming staff intentionally program the computers controlling the
pollution control systems on certain 2008-2015 Audi and Volkswagen diesel
vehicles to activate the full pollution control systems ONLY when the
vehicle was undergoing official emissions testing.  At all other times, the
pollution control systems were inactive and the vehicles were putting out
emissions as high as 40 times the legal limit.

 

The company is facing $18 billion in fines.

 

It is unclear whether the Volkswagen executives who directed the scheme will
face criminal charges.

 

It is also unclear whether the programming staff who wrote the code will
face criminal charges.

 

Even though this is not a mainframe issue, it is an issue that directly
affects us and our industry.  Hackers are already a significant black eye.
This is much worse.  It makes legitimate programmers look suspect.

 

It raises the uncomfortable question of whether or not we can or should be
held criminally liable if we are directed to code a program or a change to a
program that we know would have the effect of violating the law and we then
knowingly proceed to code that program or a change to a program.

 

It has been suggested in the past that programmers should be licensed and/or
bonded.

 

I am not particularly fond of either idea.  However, I would like to hear
what others think.

 

John P. Baker

 


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