Seeking information
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dear IETF, Now that the IETf is behind us I am hoping to tap the minds of the collective. I am working on a book scheduled to be published next March to coincide with the 50th IETF to celebrate this "golden" milestone. The book is a history of Internet protocols and their development, with a particular emphasis on the role of the IETF and the Network Working Groups before it. The book will have numerous sections devoted to individual protocols from their birth to their status today. The goal is to have each section be written by 1 or 2 of the people intimately involved with the process. So my job will basically be in editing. One section of the book (as planned) will be devoted to short interesting stories as told by the people involved. This is where you (will hopefully) come in. I am seeking short vignettes for possible inclusion. The goal of the book is to both tell the history of protocol development and hopefully convey some of the creative processes that happen. So if you have a memory of a certain WG session or hallway conversation that you feel is profound, funny, critical, timely, insert adjective, etc. that might merit inclusion in such a book I would love to hear it. I am also looking for the "hot topics" of the day for as many IETF's as possible. It seems that most IETF meetings have one central theme that infects them. Some examples include the IPng recommendation at the Toronto IETF, the SNMPv2 blowup at the Dallas IETF, the push to require 56-bit DES as a minimum IPsec implementation at the Danvers meeting, etc. Any memories about specific IETF meetings and those topics would also be greatly appreciated. - --- Phil P.S. I am afraid their would be no compensation available for these type of contributions, but your work would be fully accredited if published. I would therefore ask that you include a statement to the effect of: "I recognize that the essay I have enclosed in this email is being considered for publication and I acknowledge that I will receive no compensation if it is published" P.P.S. I am not a lawyer and the words above are my own. I still may have to get you to sign a form before the material can be included but maybe this will appease the legal people. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.3 iQA/AwUBOZEBzx8Cp2AdP9rUEQIwiQCcDvIu5rQvvkiPtyZu7KHXEb6VEo4AniIs naJhdrmpSQia/JYPGZw8E1eQ =mfOS -END PGP SIGNATURE-
imode far superior to wap
Apparently WAP is collapsing, both in terms of the general opinion of engineers and pundits, and now customer revenues. The Invisible Hand needs to slap some sense into the overly-greedy WAP Forum and their all-too-pervasive accomplices. Imode is far more widely used in Japan, as it is a very superior open standard that anyone can author and browse on any platform. I would ask that everyone in the IETF who cares about these things make an informal personal effort to try to get cellular carriers to migrate towards a solution like imode. Looking around a Google search on "imode" will pretty clearly show how it works. I don't know if cellular phones cause brain damage (although perhaps that could explain the WAP Forum's pathetic bytecode-based rejection of Moore's Law), but trying to use WAP is like viewing Medusans in the Star Trek universe [TOS episode 60, "Is There In Truth No Beauty?" http://www.lcarscom.net/tos3.htm ]. Cheers, James
Re: imode far superior to wap
On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 17:33:06 +0200, =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=E5ns?= Nilsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I doubt that you will find support from IETF folks for something that breaks the end-to-end model of IP (as Imode and WAP do as they are implemented today). I want to be able to ssh to my phone (or equivalent). Anything below that is just telephantisms. IBM announced a Linux-powered wristwatch. No word on if it runs NTP. ;) -- Valdis Kletnieks Operating Systems Analyst Virginia Tech PGP signature
RE: imode far superior to wap
Imode is far more widely used in Japan http://www.nttdocomo.com/source/i_m_scr.htm Watch the subscriber count go up. Depending on your definition of an ISP (please no yes they are, no they're not, it's not e2e debate), they'd be the world's second largest with over 10 million subscribers in only about 18 months of service roll-out... NTT Docomo will also most likely be the first to deploy 3G systems in the first half of 2001. I've had an i-Mode 502i colour handset catalogue on my desk for a few months and from the application screen shots I can only groan when using my WAP handset. bob (ex-WAP user after seeing the first bill...)
Re: imode far superior to wap
At 05:33 PM 8/9/00 +0200, Måns Nilsson wrote: I doubt that you will find support from IETF folks for something that breaks the end-to-end model of IP (as Imode and WAP do as they are The WAP folks made a presentation to the Adelaide IETF, this past Spring. The comments from the audience were rather pointed, strong and negative, along the lines you note. d/
RE: imode far superior to wap
James, We have gone through WAP v/s non-WAP threads several times on this list. Let us hope this does not become another meaningless thread with little technical merits in the arguments. What is the use of criticizing a technology? If it is not good for a purpose, or only the second best, it will die itself. IETF, ISO or ITU can't sustain any standard unless someone in the world sees some merits in it. Some people out there see WAP is good for them, and some others see it a temporary diversion from the "real" deal. So what is new about it. Cheers, --brijesh Ennovate Networks Inc. -Original Message- From: James P. Salsman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 9:03 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: imode far superior to wap Apparently WAP is collapsing, both in terms of the general opinion of engineers and pundits, and now customer revenues. The Invisible Hand needs to slap some sense into the overly-greedy WAP Forum and their all-too-pervasive accomplices. Imode is far more widely used in Japan, as it is a very superior open standard that anyone can author and browse on any platform. I would ask that everyone in the IETF who cares about these things make an informal personal effort to try to get cellular carriers to migrate towards a solution like imode. Looking around a Google search on "imode" will pretty clearly show how it works. I don't know if cellular phones cause brain damage (although perhaps that could explain the WAP Forum's pathetic bytecode-based rejection of Moore's Law), but trying to use WAP is like viewing Medusans in the Star Trek universe [TOS episode 60, "Is There In Truth No Beauty?" http://www.lcarscom.net/tos3.htm ]. Cheers, James
RE: ferul/farrell postings
Because it is not a technology problem... Join Harald's list to opt out of the noise. http://www.alvestrand.no/ietf+censored.html Tony -Original Message- From: William Allen Simpson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 5:13 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Beatrice Dominguez-Meiers Subject: ferul/farrell postings -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Casey Farrell, Domain Name Broker cannot post on nanog, none of them show up, as he is not registered. yet, in all these years, IETF hasn't managed to add a posting restriction the technology exists, maybe our esteemed staff could ask merit how they cleverly managed this feat? Beatrice Dominguez-Meiers wrote: what is all of this crap? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.1 iQCVAwUBOY6nh9m/qMj6R+sxAQEaCAP/dp8dIJ0GNQhlgbJSJ422x3O2EsHsRtk7 XN3LIcmGNIdNGwP8FuFwLBKcv5yjTYQeV7J67ydprqz23cxrHM7mze7NiteAnbzx eaBIv2UFkxxxOB8O4XjW5IdT7Ni7NMnfep5qonwysne80HfRtEOZ/wrPSN/lugDE DMBwQzBD5NI= =XVw8 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
RE: imode far superior to wap
At 12:27 PM -0400 8/9/00, Brijesh Kumar wrote: James, We have gone through WAP v/s non-WAP threads several times on this list. Let us hope this does not become another meaningless thread with little technical merits in the arguments. What is the use of criticizing a technology? If it is not good for a purpose, or only the second best, it will die itself. IETF, ISO or ITU can't sustain any standard unless someone in the world sees some merits in it. Some people out there see WAP is good for them, and some others see it a temporary diversion from the "real" deal. So what is new about it. Actually, nothing. The last round of "WAP is a trap" discussion on this list finally forced me to go look at it. The fascinating thing about WAP is how closely it resembles Videotex. The similarities are very close. There are probably not many around who ever even saw Videotex. It would be interesting to know if the similarity is accidental or on purpose. It might tell us a lot about the current state of education in protocol design or the dichotomy in the cultures of protocol designers. It might also give us some insight into how we can expect WAP to play out. It certainly gives us plenty of reasons to expect a particular future. I'd be curious what prompted Salsman's note. Take care, john
RE: ferul/farrell postings
--Original Message- -From: Tony Hain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] -Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 2:14 PM -To: William Allen Simpson; [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Cc: Beatrice Dominguez-Meiers -Subject: RE: ferul/farrell postings - - -Because it is not a technology problem... Join Harald's list -to opt out -of the noise. http://www.alvestrand.no/ietf+censored.html - .. or just create filters on your email client... /pd
end-to-end w/i-Mode? (was Re: imode far superior to wap)
... breaks the end-to-end model of IP (as Imode and WAP do as they are implemented today). WAP does, but apparently i-Mode does not. The i-Mode vendors claim that you can plug your laptop into your i-Mode phone in Japan (and get speeds far faster than 9600 bps on newer phones), and someone on this IETF list suggested that configuration provides internet access like PPP in response to my questions here some weeks ago. Would an actual i-Mode DoCoMo customer who has used such a configuration please describe what it provides? TCP? UDP? ICMP? How are connections maintained when radio contact is lost? What kind of bandwith is typically observed, and under what conditions? How are addresses assigned? Does it involve NAT? Cheers, James
Re: imode far superior to wap
There are actually operational issues if not standards related ones here. Discussion in Australia about management of the .AU ccTLD is discussing amongst other things services like !Banggo for WAPsters who cannot stand to try and type alpha URI and are therefore using a numeric redirection schema to get short URL off the number-pad to jump off to websites. This has a direct impact on what people think DNS is providing, what 'addressing' and naming mean for mixed-protocol/application contexts, and probably some societal/governance issues as well. The horror, the horror... cheers -George -- George Michaelson | DSTC Pty Ltd Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| University of Qld 4072 Phone: +61 7 3365 4310| Australia Fax: +61 7 3365 4311| http://www.dstc.edu.au
