Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
Heh. NZDT is UTC+13... Having just moved to Australia from New Zealand... NZ has better airline connections, especially for flying eastward across the Pacific. As for being far away... well, you get used to that. My personal definition of 'long flight' starts at 9 hours... 'short flight' would be less than 3. On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 4:53 PM, Dave Crocker d...@dcrocker.net wrote: On 3/1/2013 12:41 PM, John R. Levine wrote: I've said it before: just go back and forth between Iceland and Hawaii. Oh, and maybe Minneapolis for old-time's sake. ;-) New Zealand, please, in easy to remember UTC+12 A Brit who'd recently moved to Sidney said that he was still getting used to its relationship to the rest of the world: You fly for 8 hours, and then you start your trip. New Zealand is even better: You fly for /12/ hours, and then start your trip. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
On 6 Mar 2013, at 22:09, Henrik Levkowetz hen...@levkowetz.com wrote: On 2013-02-27 10:20 Tim Chown said the following: On 26 Feb 2013, at 20:28, Martin Rex m...@sap.com wrote: I have a recurring remote participation problem with the IETF Meeting Agendas, because it specifies the time of WG meeting slots in local time (local to the IETF Meeting), but does not give the local time zone *anywhere*. I would appreciate if the local time zone indication would be added like somewhere at the top of the page, to each IETF meeting agenda. So in this interesting discussion of UTC, Martin has actually made an excellent point. Having UTC listings for the agenda would be very helpful, or an alternative agenda showing UTC. Now available: http://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc Many thanks, as always, Henrik. Tim
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
On 2013-02-27 10:20 Tim Chown said the following: On 26 Feb 2013, at 20:28, Martin Rex m...@sap.com wrote: I have a recurring remote participation problem with the IETF Meeting Agendas, because it specifies the time of WG meeting slots in local time (local to the IETF Meeting), but does not give the local time zone *anywhere*. I would appreciate if the local time zone indication would be added like somewhere at the top of the page, to each IETF meeting agenda. So in this interesting discussion of UTC, Martin has actually made an excellent point. Having UTC listings for the agenda would be very helpful, or an alternative agenda showing UTC. Now available: http://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc Best regards, Henrik
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
On 2013-03-01 13:41 Mikael Abrahamsson said the following: So I guess one still has to keep track of daylight savings. Personally I prefer to have local time for meetings, otherwise UTC is nice. Local timezone indication is now available, calculated for the particular date and time for each session, so will show daylight saving transitions correctly too): http://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda Best regards, Henrik
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
Henrik Levkowetz wrote: On 2013-02-27 10:20 Tim Chown said the following: On 26 Feb 2013, at 20:28, Martin Rex m...@sap.com wrote: I have a recurring remote participation problem with the IETF Meeting Agendas, because it specifies the time of WG meeting slots in local time (local to the IETF Meeting), but does not give the local time zone *anywhere*. I would appreciate if the local time zone indication would be added like somewhere at the top of the page, to each IETF meeting agenda. So in this interesting discussion of UTC, Martin has actually made an excellent point. Having UTC listings for the agenda would be very helpful, or an alternative agenda showing UTC. Now available: http://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc The agenda that I actually use (and prefer by a significant margin) is this one: http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/86/ Since I don't live in a DST-less UTC timezone myself, I will have to convert (for the purpuse of plannying my remote participation) the listed times in both, the traditional agendas and any agenda that uses UTC time. I actually prefer the agendas with local time. The little thing that I would appreciate is really an indication of the local time zone on *ALL* published agendas. Since the IETF-86 agenda include a code sprint event on Saturday, which as I understand is still EST(-05:00), while the rest of IETF-86 happens in EDT(-04:00), so there is no longer a single timezone for the entire agenda. How about adding the timezone info after each day's name? e.g.: SATURDAY, March 9, 2013 (EST -05:00) 0930-1800 Code Sprint - Grand Sierra A SUNDAY, March 10, 2013 (EDT -04:00) 1100-1900 IETF Registration - Caribbean Registration -Martin
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
Can anyone help an ignorant European? Given a meeting time of 12:00 Noon ET [sic] on Sunday 10th March 2013, what is that in UTC? Daylight saving will have started by then in the USA but not in Europe so the scope for being an hour late or an hour early is much increased. Tom Petch - Original Message - From: Tim Chown t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk To: ietf@ietf.org Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:20 AM Subject: Time zones in IETF agenda On 26 Feb 2013, at 20:28, Martin Rex m...@sap.com wrote: I have a recurring remote participation problem with the IETF Meeting Agendas, because it specifies the time of WG meeting slots in local time (local to the IETF Meeting), but does not give the local time zone *anywhere*. I would appreciate if the local time zone indication would be added like somewhere at the top of the page, to each IETF meeting agenda. So in this interesting discussion of UTC, Martin has actually made an excellent point. Having UTC listings for the agenda would be very helpful, or an alternative agenda showing UTC. Tim
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
On Fri, 1 Mar 2013, t.p. wrote: Can anyone help an ignorant European? Given a meeting time of 12:00 Noon ET [sic] on Sunday 10th March 2013, what is that in UTC? Daylight saving will have started by then in the USA but not in Europe so the scope for being an hour late or an hour early is much increased. $ date -u -d CET 12:00 Mar 10 2013 Sun Mar 10 11:00:00 UTC 2013 $ date -u -d EST 12:00 Mar 10 2013 Sun Mar 10 17:00:00 UTC 2013 $ date -u -d PST 12:00 Mar 10 2013 Sun Mar 10 20:00:00 UTC 2013 Though, the daylight savings is a bit confusing: $ date -u -d CEST 12:00 Mar 10 2013 Sun Mar 10 10:00:00 UTC 2013 $ date -u -d EDT 12:00 Mar 10 2013 Sun Mar 10 16:00:00 UTC 2013 $ date -u -d PDT 12:00 Mar 10 2013 Sun Mar 10 19:00:00 UTC 2013 So I guess one still has to keep track of daylight savings. Personally I prefer to have local time for meetings, otherwise UTC is nice. -- Mikael Abrahamssonemail: swm...@swm.pp.se
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
On 01/03/2013 12:21, t.p. wrote: Can anyone help an ignorant European? Given a meeting time of 12:00 Noon ET [sic] on Sunday 10th March 2013, what is that in UTC? Daylight saving will have started by then in the USA but not in Europe so the scope for being an hour late or an hour early is much increased. My lifesaver is http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/personal.html Brian
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
On 01/03/2013 12:21, t.p. wrote: Can anyone help an ignorant European? Given a meeting time of 12:00 Noon ET [sic] on Sunday 10th March 2013, what is that in UTC? Daylight saving will have started by then in the USA but not in Europe so the scope for being an hour late or an hour early is much increased. My lifesaver is http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/personal.html Brian
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
Am 01.03.2013 15:17, schrieb Brian E Carpenter: On 01/03/2013 12:21, t.p. wrote: Can anyone help an ignorant European? Given a meeting time of 12:00 Noon ET [sic] on Sunday 10th March 2013, what is that in UTC? Daylight saving will have started by then in the USA but not in Europe so the scope for being an hour late or an hour early is much increased. My lifesaver is http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/personal.html Brian + 1 and this one: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
So I guess one still has to keep track of daylight savings. I've been trying to explain this to people for years, that I cannot tell when their meeting is if they will not tell me what time zone they're using. It turns out most people don't actually know what time zone they're using (no, San Francisco is not on PST in July) so I've found the least error prone approach is to ask what place their time is for, since even if they don't know what time zone their city is in, I do. Personally I prefer to have local time for meetings, otherwise UTC is nice. We should meet in Iceland, where the local time is always UTC. It has other advantages, too, roughly equal ping times to the US and Europe. R's, John
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
On 3/1/13 6:21 AM, t.p. wrote: Can anyone help an ignorant European? Given a meeting time of 12:00 Noon ET [sic] on Sunday 10th March 2013, what is that in UTC? http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20130310T12p1=179 pr -- Pete Resnickhttp://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/ Qualcomm Technologies, Inc. - +1 (858)651-4478
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
t.p. daedu...@btconnect.com wrote: Can anyone help an ignorant European? Given a meeting time of 12:00 Noon ET [sic] on Sunday 10th March 2013, what is that in UTC? Daylight saving will have started by then in the USA but not in Europe so the scope for being an hour late or an hour early is much increased. Florida will be at UTC-4 (which we call EDT) as of early Sunday morning, so a meeting at noon in Florida any day of IETF 86 will be at 0800 UTC. -- Regards, John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of The Internet for Dummies, Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
Hi John, --On March 1, 2013 7:13:44 PM + John Levine jo...@taugh.com wrote: Florida will be at UTC-4 (which we call EDT) as of early Sunday morning, so a meeting at noon in Florida any day of IETF 86 will be at 0800 UTC. Yow - wrong way around. The correct time for a noon meeting in Florida is 16:00 UTC (12:00 - (-4:00)). -- Cyrus Daboo
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
On 03/01/2013 12:13 PM, Cyrus Daboo wrote: Hi John, --On March 1, 2013 7:13:44 PM + John Levine jo...@taugh.com wrote: Florida will be at UTC-4 (which we call EDT) as of early Sunday morning, so a meeting at noon in Florida any day of IETF 86 will be at 0800 UTC. Yow - wrong way around. The correct time for a noon meeting in Florida is 16:00 UTC (12:00 - (-4:00)). Yow is right. You're both wrong. :) Add 4 hours to the Florida daylight time zone to get UTC. Or, just go here: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?iso=20130301T00p1=1440p2=867
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
On 03/01/2013 12:20 PM, Doug Barton wrote: On 03/01/2013 12:13 PM, Cyrus Daboo wrote: Hi John, --On March 1, 2013 7:13:44 PM + John Levine jo...@taugh.com wrote: Florida will be at UTC-4 (which we call EDT) as of early Sunday morning, so a meeting at noon in Florida any day of IETF 86 will be at 0800 UTC. Yow - wrong way around. The correct time for a noon meeting in Florida is 16:00 UTC (12:00 - (-4:00)). Yow is right. You're both wrong. :) Oops, sorry Cyrus, you're right, I still had the midnight thread in my mind. Anyways, the site below is hopefully helpful to someone. :) Doug Add 4 hours to the Florida daylight time zone to get UTC. Or, just go here: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?iso=20130301T00p1=1440p2=867
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
On 03/01/13 11:09, John Levine allegedly wrote: We should meet in Iceland, where the local time is always UTC. It has other advantages, too, roughly equal ping times to the US and Europe. It's a good place for meetings, and surprisingly easy to get to from most of the world.
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 3/1/13 1:36 PM, Scott Brim wrote: On 03/01/13 11:09, John Levine allegedly wrote: We should meet in Iceland, where the local time is always UTC. It has other advantages, too, roughly equal ping times to the US and Europe. It's a good place for meetings, and surprisingly easy to get to from most of the world. I've said it before: just go back and forth between Iceland and Hawaii. Oh, and maybe Minneapolis for old-time's sake. ;-) Peter - -- Peter Saint-Andre https://stpeter.im/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRMRHsAAoJEOoGpJErxa2pezYP/3KbtEHWUqdor7twfRoMQD1W 4I/iMw4FItOBD3+OLC2m7Hs+JDtQtIz5IZJ5kwI/zG6zTKcLNzlA81aa3+c1ZVBb kiC69e6rPr/3BnzykcwblD2094M7+m9O1h0gEtPuvtuDtey7WwuZi51AldIYE4Gq EhN9FaZHLNNVfFURx8KCH+n3YkSbfBsuEw93gV09GgW1vITxg27T7WFC8fMNIBTI PW95JgSI9PFULUQJ2EQPyoxYK3B0len5NtoIt7Cdpm/wdzPnrOWUk+w0Fce9YP8z wEU4gqg7k/M4NWvvw5UYTSa79KxJ44MTNeB9Ga8T1TdczbtoKJZtlDKBfr/rkb6E aLgybul0nqbU8gWB1kNNyWLrTTbQeS2Z9tiUGkyWe7GfLym8jBVVdB6IXQ9Gudti qy6MNB7yYRANJzCG4jeywmM9xrVQa4LHpS8QQ4L7RbDFoq89WLURODYNKdQ4EF/I UYHrEp0KLw+1cQ8X4jw6JOF+1LLdMOaEdjnzqb0ODJduQ1BLlFbuYT0DqXeJuhtl 4VtkEVCGABWz4i51T5Mxe/6LTOjzaoLT9NPNKQU8YQkaErtmxDSyqG0RCkrjJGkR A1OUgOzp+WMHYlb31pZQ81W4royyAI3C78zXhI0tP/5gra+jQwQOLXdpz/1EumE5 u13btQd9t2sbFmRQA5u6 =lagQ -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
Florida will be at UTC-4 (which we call EDT) as of early Sunday morning, so a meeting at noon in Florida any day of IETF 86 will be at 0800 UTC. Yow - wrong way around. The correct time for a noon meeting in Florida is 16:00 UTC (12:00 - (-4:00)). Sorry, you are quite right. Regards, John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of The Internet for Dummies, Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
I've said it before: just go back and forth between Iceland and Hawaii. Oh, and maybe Minneapolis for old-time's sake. ;-) New Zealand, please, in easy to remember UTC+12 Regards, John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of The Internet for Dummies, Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
RE: Time zones in IETF agenda
Only for half the year. New Zealand has daylight savings time, while Hawaii does not. -Original Message- From: ietf-boun...@ietf.org [mailto:ietf-boun...@ietf.org] On Behalf Of John R. Levine Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 10:42 AM To: Peter Saint-Andre Cc: ietf@ietf.org Subject: Re: Time zones in IETF agenda I've said it before: just go back and forth between Iceland and Hawaii. Oh, and maybe Minneapolis for old-time's sake. ;-) New Zealand, please, in easy to remember UTC+12 Regards, John Levine, jo...@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of The Internet for Dummies, Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
On 3/1/2013 12:41 PM, John R. Levine wrote: I've said it before: just go back and forth between Iceland and Hawaii. Oh, and maybe Minneapolis for old-time's sake. ;-) New Zealand, please, in easy to remember UTC+12 A Brit who'd recently moved to Sidney said that he was still getting used to its relationship to the rest of the world: You fly for 8 hours, and then you start your trip. New Zealand is even better: You fly for /12/ hours, and then start your trip. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
On 3/1/13 9:41 PM, John R. Levine wrote: I've said it before: just go back and forth between Iceland and Hawaii. Oh, and maybe Minneapolis for old-time's sake. ;-) New Zealand, please, in easy to remember UTC+12 New Zealand would be quite appropriate, given it was the place that had the first standardized offset in 1868. Eliot
Time zones in IETF agenda
On 26 Feb 2013, at 20:28, Martin Rex m...@sap.com wrote: I have a recurring remote participation problem with the IETF Meeting Agendas, because it specifies the time of WG meeting slots in local time (local to the IETF Meeting), but does not give the local time zone *anywhere*. I would appreciate if the local time zone indication would be added like somewhere at the top of the page, to each IETF meeting agenda. So in this interesting discussion of UTC, Martin has actually made an excellent point. Having UTC listings for the agenda would be very helpful, or an alternative agenda showing UTC. Tim
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
On Feb 27, 2013, at 10:20 AM, Tim Chown t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote: On 26 Feb 2013, at 20:28, Martin Rex m...@sap.com wrote: I have a recurring remote participation problem with the IETF Meeting Agendas, because it specifies the time of WG meeting slots in local time (local to the IETF Meeting), but does not give the local time zone *anywhere*. I would appreciate if the local time zone indication would be added like somewhere at the top of the page, to each IETF meeting agenda. So in this interesting discussion of UTC, Martin has actually made an excellent point. Having UTC listings for the agenda would be very helpful, or an alternative agenda showing UTC. +1. Given our high remote participation, I put UTC in the agenda for the MILE WG anyway (usually correctly, even). And given that the IETF often meets on one side or another of the DST change in local time, having an unchanging time reference would be helpful even for attendees. Cheers, Brian
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
On 27/02/2013 09:28, Brian Trammell wrote: On Feb 27, 2013, at 10:20 AM, Tim Chown t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote: On 26 Feb 2013, at 20:28, Martin Rex m...@sap.com wrote: I have a recurring remote participation problem with the IETF Meeting Agendas, because it specifies the time of WG meeting slots in local time (local to the IETF Meeting), but does not give the local time zone *anywhere*. I would appreciate if the local time zone indication would be added like somewhere at the top of the page, to each IETF meeting agenda. So in this interesting discussion of UTC, Martin has actually made an excellent point. Having UTC listings for the agenda would be very helpful, or an alternative agenda showing UTC. +1. Given our high remote participation, I put UTC in the agenda for the MILE WG anyway (usually correctly, even). And given that the IETF often meets on one side or another of the DST change in local time, having an unchanging time reference would be helpful even for attendees. UTC time *and* date please, for people in whichever hemisphere happens to be opposite the IETF. Brian
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
On 2013-02-27 4:53 AM, Brian E Carpenter brian.e.carpen...@gmail.com wrote: On 27/02/2013 09:28, Brian Trammell wrote: On Feb 27, 2013, at 10:20 AM, Tim Chown t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote: On 26 Feb 2013, at 20:28, Martin Rex m...@sap.com wrote: I have a recurring remote participation problem with the IETF Meeting Agendas, because it specifies the time of WG meeting slots in local time (local to the IETF Meeting), but does not give the local time zone *anywhere*. I would appreciate if the local time zone indication would be added like somewhere at the top of the page, to each IETF meeting agenda. So in this interesting discussion of UTC, Martin has actually made an excellent point. Having UTC listings for the agenda would be very helpful, or an alternative agenda showing UTC. +1. Given our high remote participation, I put UTC in the agenda for the MILE WG anyway (usually correctly, even). And given that the IETF often meets on one side or another of the DST change in local time, having an unchanging time reference would be helpful even for attendees. UTC time *and* date please, for people in whichever hemisphere happens to be opposite the IETF. Brian +1. UTC (in addition to whatever local time based on venue) is the clearest way of specifying a time. It's easily converted into other time zones by those who need to do so. Regards, Victor K
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
http://www.worldtimebuddy.com/ On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 8:37 AM, Victor Kuarsingh victor.kuarsi...@gmail.com wrote: On 2013-02-27 4:53 AM, Brian E Carpenter brian.e.carpen...@gmail.com wrote: On 27/02/2013 09:28, Brian Trammell wrote: On Feb 27, 2013, at 10:20 AM, Tim Chown t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote: On 26 Feb 2013, at 20:28, Martin Rex m...@sap.com wrote: I have a recurring remote participation problem with the IETF Meeting Agendas, because it specifies the time of WG meeting slots in local time (local to the IETF Meeting), but does not give the local time zone *anywhere*. I would appreciate if the local time zone indication would be added like somewhere at the top of the page, to each IETF meeting agenda. So in this interesting discussion of UTC, Martin has actually made an excellent point. Having UTC listings for the agenda would be very helpful, or an alternative agenda showing UTC. +1. Given our high remote participation, I put UTC in the agenda for the MILE WG anyway (usually correctly, even). And given that the IETF often meets on one side or another of the DST change in local time, having an unchanging time reference would be helpful even for attendees. UTC time *and* date please, for people in whichever hemisphere happens to be opposite the IETF. Brian +1. UTC (in addition to whatever local time based on venue) is the clearest way of specifying a time. It's easily converted into other time zones by those who need to do so. Regards, Victor K
Re: Time zones in IETF agenda
Hi Tim, --On February 27, 2013 at 9:20:09 AM + Tim Chown t...@ecs.soton.ac.uk wrote: I would appreciate if the local time zone indication would be added like somewhere at the top of the page, to each IETF meeting agenda. So in this interesting discussion of UTC, Martin has actually made an excellent point. Having UTC listings for the agenda would be very helpful, or an alternative agenda showing UTC. Do use a calendar (iCalendar) client to manage your own time? If so, the iCalendar feed of the agenda will provide everything you need in terms of viewing the events in whatever timezone you want. Having an alternative text agenda in UTC still requires mental arithmetic to convert to one's own local time - a lot harder for those living in zones with a large offset, or an offset with a 1/2 hour component to it. Better would be an option on the webpage to allow the text-based agenda to be displayed in a chosen timezone. -- Cyrus Daboo
