Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Hesham ElBakoury]

Hi Lin
I agree with you. 5G integration can be in a separate draft.

Thanks
Hesham

On Fri, Jul 9, 2021, 4:23 PM Lin Han  wrote:

> == trim the message for int-area size requirement
>
>
>
> Hi, Hesham
>
>
>
> The draft does not want to touch the territory of 3GPP. Having said that,
> all radio, signal process, coding, wireless resource management, 4G/5G
> integration, etc. are not in the scope of the draft.
>
> The intention of the draft is to only address the problems and solution
> for satellite networking when routing and switching technologies are used.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Lin
>
>
>
> *From:* Hesham ElBakoury 
> *Sent:* Friday, July 9, 2021 10:51 AM
> *To:* Lin Han 
> *Cc:* UTTARO, JAMES ; Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org;
> rt...@ietf.org; sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
> *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
>
>
> Hi Lin,
>
> Is the integration of 5G and satellite networks part of your research ?.
> 3GPP has started the work on this integration and already has work items
> (WI) for Rel 17 and 18 to address this issue. There are already few recent
> related publications. For example, here is a recent survey:
> https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9193893
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fdocument%2F9193893=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7C89587d9f2e774a787c0f08d94302285d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637614498840617824%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=%2BZsBixpOZ9Z2ktNZBPAU2%2FORKMJvXsoSln8MPxYmNTc%3D=0>.
> I am not sure if O-RAN is currently working on this issue ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Hesham
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Lin Han]

== trim the message for int-area size requirement

Hi, Hesham

The draft does not want to touch the territory of 3GPP. Having said that, all 
radio, signal process, coding, wireless resource management, 4G/5G integration, 
etc. are not in the scope of the draft.
The intention of the draft is to only address the problems and solution for 
satellite networking when routing and switching technologies are used.

Thanks
Lin

From: Hesham ElBakoury 
Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 10:51 AM
To: Lin Han 
Cc: UTTARO, JAMES ; Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; 
rt...@ietf.org; sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt


Hi Lin,

Is the integration of 5G and satellite networks part of your research ?. 3GPP 
has started the work on this integration and already has work items (WI) for 
Rel 17 and 18 to address this issue. There are already few recent related 
publications. For example, here is a recent survey: 
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9193893<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fdocument%2F9193893=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7C89587d9f2e774a787c0f08d94302285d%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637614498840617824%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=%2BZsBixpOZ9Z2ktNZBPAU2%2FORKMJvXsoSln8MPxYmNTc%3D=0>.
 I am not sure if O-RAN is currently working on this issue ?

Thanks

Hesham

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Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Brian Carpenter]

>
> The IETF position on LI is not exactly that it's anathema, but that we
> will not standardise *any* intercept techniques, legal or otherwise. RFC
> 2804.
>
>
> Regards,
> Brian Carpenter
> (via tiny screen & keyboard)
>
> On Fri, 9 Jul 2021, 18:33 Stewart Bryant, 
> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately LI is not our call.
>
> I know the IETF finds it an anathema but it is an unspoken (in IETF)
> reality of the telecommunications industry.
>
> The concept of a huge number of highly portable, highly directional,
> microwave links that are then relayed opaquely to a foreign country is
> going to delight some agencies and give heartburn to their colleagues in
> other parts of the same agency cluster.
>
> I think that we can all postulate how this would (will) be solved in a
> mega-cluster owned by a large ITU region 2 country, or a particularly large
> Asian country but I assume we want to design a global / universal system
> rather than one that will otherwise inevitably be partitioned due to
> geo-political security concerns.
>
> Stewart
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
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Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Stewart Bryant]

Do others find it annoying that when you reply to an int area message that 
includes the SARAH list they have to then approve their own message?

S
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Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Stewart Bryant]

Sent from my iPad

> On 9 Jul 2021, at 01:28, Hesham ElBakoury  wrote:
> 
> That is, any traffic carried over Intelsat satellite backhaul from a cell 
> site to the core is landed in the same country and doesn’t leave the 
> country’s borders. This capability allows mobile operators to meet regulatory 
> requirements for lawful intercept, content filtering, as well as billing."
> 

Which is of course not how it is imagined that the mega clusters will work. To 
get the latency advantage which is one of their commercial advantages they will 
need to relay direct.

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Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Stewart Bryant]

Unfortunately LI is not our call.

I know the IETF finds it an anathema but it is an unspoken (in IETF) reality of 
the telecommunications industry.

The concept of a huge number of highly portable, highly directional, microwave 
links that are then relayed opaquely to a foreign country is going to delight 
some agencies and give heartburn to their colleagues in other parts of the same 
agency cluster.

I think that we can all postulate how this would (will) be solved in a 
mega-cluster owned by a large ITU region 2 country, or a particularly large 
Asian country but I assume we want to design a global / universal system rather 
than one that will otherwise inevitably be partitioned due to geo-political 
security concerns.

Stewart

Sent from my iPad

> On 8 Jul 2021, at 23:22, Lin Han  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hesham,
>  
> Thanks for the answer.
> I don’t have too many concerns for this regard, and it may be out the scope 
> of the draft.
>  
> Satellite to ground station communication needs license for its spectrum in 
> different country and LI is feasible.
> But ISL is between satellites. LI may not be a feasible requirement: 1) 
> Satellites are in out space that is not belonging to any country, so I doubt 
> any country can have such legal requirement for ISL. 2) ISL use laser that is 
> not a spectrum controlled by any country or organization. 3) LI for ISL is so 
> costly and seems not likely. You need to get FCC or other organization’s 
> approve for the new orbit to launch a new satellite and its orbit is very 
> close to the existing satellite, this itself is almost impossible. I don’t 
> see any other feasible way you can do LI for ISL if laser is used for ISL.
>  
> Regards
>  
> Lin
>  
>  
> From: Hesham ElBakoury  
> Sent: Thursday, July 8, 2021 10:57 AM
> To: Lin Han 
> Cc: Stewart Bryant ; Int-area@ietf.org; 
> sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk; rt...@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES ; 
> i...@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for 
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>  
> I think LI means Lawful Intercept.
> It is a security issue. I recall seeing some ETSI documents about it.
>  
> Hesham
>  
> On Thu, Jul 8, 2021, 10:52 AM Lin Han  wrote:
> Hi, Stewart,
>  
> What does “LI” stand for?
> ISL is not mature enough for real adoption.
> The academia research suggested to use laser instead of microwave. When laser 
> is used for ISL, there should not have spectrum license issue, I don’t see 
> the ITU or USA has spectrum allocation for the frequency of laser 
> (400THz~700THz).
>  
> Lin
>  
> From: Stewart Bryant  
> Sent: Thursday, July 8, 2021 7:19 AM
> To: Hesham ElBakoury 
> Cc: Stewart Bryant ; Lin Han 
> ; Int-area@ietf.org; sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk; 
> rt...@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES ; i...@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for 
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>  
> The thing that worries me about iSL is whether the inability to do LI will 
> prohibit licensing in some countries.
>  
> - Stewart
>  
>  
>  
> 
> On 7 Jul 2021, at 03:51, Hesham ElBakoury  wrote:
>  
> Mark Handley published the paper "Using ground relays for low-latency 
> wide-area routing in megaconstellations" to show that even if we do not have 
> ISL we can use ground terminals to route traffic with better latency than 
> fiber links.
>  
> Thanks
> Hesham
>  
>  
> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 10:08 AM Lin Han  wrote:
> Hi, Jim
> 
> I don't have clear answer.
> What I can guess now is that most of current technologies (with enhancement) 
> can be used, but some new technologies might be needed to solve the satellite 
> specific issues, such as fast mobility, frequent topology changes, 
> constraints in satellite power, security in open space, etc.
> It is up to the community to decide what new technologies and what new 
> protocols will be developed.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Lin
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: UTTARO, JAMES  
> Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM
> To: Lin Han ; Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; 
> rt...@ietf.org
> Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: New Version Notification for 
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
> 
> Lin,
> 
> Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used with 
> or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network require 
> new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out.. 
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim Uttaro
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Idr  On Behalf Of Lin Han
> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
> To: Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; rt...@ietf.org
> Cc:

Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Stewart Bryant]

Yes, that was interesting work.

However, I spoke to one of the ITU Raporteurs about this, and was warned that 
relaying through ground stations would likely be subject to geo-political 
restriction in the same way that telephone call routing is (county C will block 
calls between anyone and country E embargoed by country C - examples were given 
but I will not repeat them).

Countries hosting a relay, or indeed universal relays as modelled by Mark need 
to license the relay as it is a radio system. The licensing of radio traffic is 
subject to significant scrutiny in many developing countries, as indeed it was 
in most of the world until the late 60s.

So whilst ground station relays are a neat idea, we should not think of them as 
being opaque in the way that fibre is, at least not yet.

Stewart

Sent from my iPad

> On 7 Jul 2021, at 03:51, Hesham ElBakoury  wrote:
> 
> Mark Handley published the paper "Using ground relays for low-latency 
> wide-area routing in megaconstellations" to show that even if we do not have 
> ISL we can use ground terminals to route traffic with better latency than 
> fiber links.
> 
> Thanks
> Hesham
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 10:08 AM Lin Han  wrote:
>> Hi, Jim
>> 
>> I don't have clear answer.
>> What I can guess now is that most of current technologies (with enhancement) 
>> can be used, but some new technologies might be needed to solve the 
>> satellite specific issues, such as fast mobility, frequent topology changes, 
>> constraints in satellite power, security in open space, etc.
>> It is up to the community to decide what new technologies and what new 
>> protocols will be developed.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Lin
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: UTTARO, JAMES  
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM
>> To: Lin Han ; Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; 
>> rt...@ietf.org
>> Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
>> Subject: RE: New Version Notification for 
>> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>> 
>> Lin,
>> 
>> Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used 
>> with or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network 
>> require new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out.. 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Jim Uttaro
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Idr  On Behalf Of Lin Han
>> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
>> To: Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; rt...@ietf.org
>> Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
>> Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for 
>> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>> 
>> Hi, 
>> 
>> This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite network 
>> when it is integrated with Internet by current routing technologies. 
>> It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further 
>> solution proposals may also come from different groups including research 
>> initiative SARAH.
>> 
>> Look forwarding to discussion and comments.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Lin
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: internet-dra...@ietf.org  
>> Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
>> To: Lin Han ; Richard Li 
>> Subject: New Version Notification for 
>> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>> 
>> 
>> A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF repository.
>> 
>> Name:   draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
>> Revision:   00
>> Title:  Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for 
>> Internet
>> Document date:  2021-07-03
>> Group:  Individual Submission
>> Pages:  32
>> URL:
>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ietf.org*2Farchive*2Fid*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278583772*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000%26amp%3Bsdata%3DqoFJMo63iQsH8W9iTaP5Vx*2F4OjIhXHoY*2BrdbcM*2FMntM*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4RbgGabg%24data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637611780428304372%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=xeP%2BMuWGk%2By8UtK8K9Oinjvk50jBp%2FuZQ2
>>  rC8uHaH2M%3Dreserved=0 
>> Status: 
>> 

Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Eliot Lear]

Lawful Intercept.

On 08.07.21 19:52, Lin Han wrote:

What does “LI” stand for?




OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Hesham ElBakoury]

I think LI means Lawful Intercept.
It is a security issue. I recall seeing some ETSI documents about it.

Hesham

On Thu, Jul 8, 2021, 10:52 AM Lin Han  wrote:

> Hi, Stewart,
>
>
>
> What does “LI” stand for?
>
> ISL is not mature enough for real adoption.
>
> The academia research suggested to use laser instead of microwave. When
> laser is used for ISL, there should not have spectrum license issue, I
> don’t see the ITU or USA has spectrum allocation for the frequency of laser
> (400THz~700THz).
>
>
>
> Lin
>
>
>
> *From:* Stewart Bryant 
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 8, 2021 7:19 AM
> *To:* Hesham ElBakoury 
> *Cc:* Stewart Bryant ; Lin Han <
> lin@futurewei.com>; Int-area@ietf.org; sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk;
> rt...@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES ; i...@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
>
>
> The thing that worries me about iSL is whether the inability to do LI will
> prohibit licensing in some countries.
>
>
>
> - Stewart
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7 Jul 2021, at 03:51, Hesham ElBakoury  wrote:
>
>
>
> Mark Handley published the paper "*Using ground relays for low-latency
> wide-area routing in megaconstellations"* to show that even if we do not
> have ISL we can use ground terminals to route traffic with better latency
> than fiber links.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Hesham
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 10:08 AM Lin Han  wrote:
>
> Hi, Jim
>
> I don't have clear answer.
> What I can guess now is that most of current technologies (with
> enhancement) can be used, but some new technologies might be needed to
> solve the satellite specific issues, such as fast mobility, frequent
> topology changes, constraints in satellite power, security in open space,
> etc.
> It is up to the community to decide what new technologies and what new
> protocols will be developed.
>
> Regards
>
> Lin
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: UTTARO, JAMES 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM
> To: Lin Han ; Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org;
> rt...@ietf.org
> Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
> Lin,
>
> Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used
> with or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network
> require new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out..
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Uttaro
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Idr  On Behalf Of Lin Han
> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
> To: Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; rt...@ietf.org
> Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
> Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
> Hi,
>
> This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite
> network when it is integrated with Internet by current routing
> technologies.
> It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further
> solution proposals may also come from different groups including research
> initiative SARAH.
>
> Look forwarding to discussion and comments.
>
> Thanks
>
> Lin
>
> -Original Message-
> From: internet-dra...@ietf.org 
> Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
> To: Lin Han ; Richard Li 
> Subject: New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF
> repository.
>
> Name:   draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
> Revision:   00
> Title:  Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for
> Internet
> Document date:  2021-07-03
> Group:  Individual Submission
> Pages:  32
> URL:
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ietf.org*2Farchive*2Fid*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278583772*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000%26amp%3Bsdata%3DqoFJMo63iQsH8W9iTaP5Vx*2F4OjIhXHoY*2BrdbcM*2FMntM*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4RbgGabg%24data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44

Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Lin Han]

Hi, Stewart,

What does "LI" stand for?
ISL is not mature enough for real adoption.
The academia research suggested to use laser instead of microwave. When laser 
is used for ISL, there should not have spectrum license issue, I don't see the 
ITU or USA has spectrum allocation for the frequency of laser (400THz~700THz).

Lin

From: Stewart Bryant 
Sent: Thursday, July 8, 2021 7:19 AM
To: Hesham ElBakoury 
Cc: Stewart Bryant ; Lin Han ; 
Int-area@ietf.org; sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk; rt...@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES 
; i...@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

The thing that worries me about iSL is whether the inability to do LI will 
prohibit licensing in some countries.

- Stewart




On 7 Jul 2021, at 03:51, Hesham ElBakoury 
mailto:helbako...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Mark Handley published the paper "Using ground relays for low-latency wide-area 
routing in megaconstellations" to show that even if we do not have ISL we can 
use ground terminals to route traffic with better latency than fiber links.

Thanks
Hesham


On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 10:08 AM Lin Han 
mailto:lin@futurewei.com>> wrote:
Hi, Jim

I don't have clear answer.
What I can guess now is that most of current technologies (with enhancement) 
can be used, but some new technologies might be needed to solve the satellite 
specific issues, such as fast mobility, frequent topology changes, constraints 
in satellite power, security in open space, etc.
It is up to the community to decide what new technologies and what new 
protocols will be developed.

Regards

Lin


-Original Message-
From: UTTARO, JAMES mailto:ju1...@att.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM
To: Lin Han mailto:lin@futurewei.com>>; 
Int-area@ietf.org<mailto:Int-area@ietf.org>; 
i...@ietf.org<mailto:i...@ietf.org>; rt...@ietf.org<mailto:rt...@ietf.org>
Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk<mailto:sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Lin,

Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used with 
or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network require 
new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out..

Thanks,
Jim Uttaro

-Original Message-
From: Idr mailto:idr-boun...@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Lin 
Han
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
To: Int-area@ietf.org<mailto:Int-area@ietf.org>; 
i...@ietf.org<mailto:i...@ietf.org>; rt...@ietf.org<mailto:rt...@ietf.org>
Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk<mailto:sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk>
Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Hi,

This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite network 
when it is integrated with Internet by current routing technologies.
It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further solution 
proposals may also come from different groups including research initiative 
SARAH.

Look forwarding to discussion and comments.

Thanks

Lin

-Original Message-
From: internet-dra...@ietf.org<mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org> 
mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org>>
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
To: Lin Han mailto:lin@futurewei.com>>; Richard Li 
mailto:richard...@futurewei.com>>
Subject: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:   draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
Revision:   00
Title:  Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for 
Internet
Document date:  2021-07-03
Group:  Individual Submission
Pages:  32
URL:
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ietf.org*2Farchive*2Fid*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278583772*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000%26amp%3Bsdata%3DqoFJMo63iQsH8W9iTaP5Vx*2F4OjIhXHoY*2BrdbcM*2FMntM*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4RbgGabg%24data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637611780428304372%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=xeP%2BMuWGk%2By8UtK8K9Oinjvk50jBp%2FuZQ2<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlo

Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Behcet Sarikaya]

On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 12:18 PM Lin Han  wrote:

> Hi, Hesham
>
>
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> The reference from prof. Mark has been given in the draft as
> [UCL-Mark-Handley] (sec. 7.2.2), the paper has demonstrated that satellite
> relay can achieve shorter latency than ground fiber network through
> simulation.
>



> But for commercial use and widely deployment, IETF still needs
> technologies/protocols to solve issues in “multiple satellite relay”, such
> as path/satellite selection, IP continuity, etc. Enhanced or new
> anchor-less mobility technologies might be needed to handle so
> quick/frequent hands over and topology changes.
>
>
>

 Now finally you are talking.
Let's dig more into these issues.

Behcet

> Regards
>
>
>
> Lin
>
>
>
> *From:* Hesham ElBakoury 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:51 PM
> *To:* Lin Han 
> *Cc:* UTTARO, JAMES ; Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org;
> rt...@ietf.org; sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
> *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
>
>
> Mark Handley published the paper "*Using ground relays for low-latency
> wide-area routing in megaconstellations"* to show that even if we do not
> have ISL we can use ground terminals to route traffic with better latency
> than fiber links.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Hesham
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 10:08 AM Lin Han  wrote:
>
> Hi, Jim
>
> I don't have clear answer.
> What I can guess now is that most of current technologies (with
> enhancement) can be used, but some new technologies might be needed to
> solve the satellite specific issues, such as fast mobility, frequent
> topology changes, constraints in satellite power, security in open space,
> etc.
> It is up to the community to decide what new technologies and what new
> protocols will be developed.
>
> Regards
>
> Lin
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: UTTARO, JAMES 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM
> To: Lin Han ; Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org;
> rt...@ietf.org
> Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
> Lin,
>
> Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used
> with or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network
> require new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out..
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Uttaro
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Idr  On Behalf Of Lin Han
> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
> To: Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; rt...@ietf.org
> Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
> Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
> Hi,
>
> This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite
> network when it is integrated with Internet by current routing
> technologies.
> It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further
> solution proposals may also come from different groups including research
> initiative SARAH.
>
> Look forwarding to discussion and comments.
>
> Thanks
>
> Lin
>
> -Original Message-
> From: internet-dra...@ietf.org 
> Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
> To: Lin Han ; Richard Li 
> Subject: New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF
> repository.
>
> Name:   draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
> Revision:   00
> Title:  Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for
> Internet
> Document date:  2021-07-03
> Group:  Individual Submission
> Pages:  32
> URL:
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ietf.org*2Farchive*2Fid*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278583772*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000%26amp%3Bsdata%3DqoFJMo63iQsH8W9iTaP5Vx*2F4OjIhXHoY*2BrdbcM*2FMntM*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4RbgGabg%24data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637611780428304372%7CUnk

Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Hesham ElBakoury]

Good points Lin! Hopefully they will be discussed when you present your
draft.

Thanks
Hesham

On Wed, Jul 7, 2021, 10:18 AM Lin Han  wrote:

> Hi, Hesham
>
>
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> The reference from prof. Mark has been given in the draft as
> [UCL-Mark-Handley] (sec. 7.2.2), the paper has demonstrated that satellite
> relay can achieve shorter latency than ground fiber network through
> simulation.
>
> But for commercial use and widely deployment, IETF still needs
> technologies/protocols to solve issues in “multiple satellite relay”, such
> as path/satellite selection, IP continuity, etc. Enhanced or new
> anchor-less mobility technologies might be needed to handle so
> quick/frequent hands over and topology changes.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Lin
>
>
>
> *From:* Hesham ElBakoury 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:51 PM
> *To:* Lin Han 
> *Cc:* UTTARO, JAMES ; Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org;
> rt...@ietf.org; sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
> *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
>
>
> Mark Handley published the paper "*Using ground relays for low-latency
> wide-area routing in megaconstellations"* to show that even if we do not
> have ISL we can use ground terminals to route traffic with better latency
> than fiber links.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Hesham
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 10:08 AM Lin Han  wrote:
>
> Hi, Jim
>
> I don't have clear answer.
> What I can guess now is that most of current technologies (with
> enhancement) can be used, but some new technologies might be needed to
> solve the satellite specific issues, such as fast mobility, frequent
> topology changes, constraints in satellite power, security in open space,
> etc.
> It is up to the community to decide what new technologies and what new
> protocols will be developed.
>
> Regards
>
> Lin
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: UTTARO, JAMES 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM
> To: Lin Han ; Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org;
> rt...@ietf.org
> Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
> Lin,
>
> Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used
> with or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network
> require new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out..
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Uttaro
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Idr  On Behalf Of Lin Han
> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
> To: Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; rt...@ietf.org
> Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
> Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
> Hi,
>
> This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite
> network when it is integrated with Internet by current routing
> technologies.
> It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further
> solution proposals may also come from different groups including research
> initiative SARAH.
>
> Look forwarding to discussion and comments.
>
> Thanks
>
> Lin
>
> -Original Message-
> From: internet-dra...@ietf.org 
> Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
> To: Lin Han ; Richard Li 
> Subject: New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF
> repository.
>
> Name:   draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
> Revision:   00
> Title:  Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for
> Internet
> Document date:  2021-07-03
> Group:  Individual Submission
> Pages:  32
> URL:
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ietf.org*2Farchive*2Fid*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278583772*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000%26amp%3Bsdata%3DqoFJMo63iQsH8W9iTaP5Vx*2F4OjIhXHoY*2BrdbcM*2FMntM*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4RbgGabg%24data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63761178042

Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Stewart Bryant]

The thing that worries me about iSL is whether the inability to do LI will 
prohibit licensing in some countries.

- Stewart



> On 7 Jul 2021, at 03:51, Hesham ElBakoury  wrote:
> 
> Mark Handley published the paper "Using ground relays for low-latency 
> wide-area routing in megaconstellations" to show that even if we do not have 
> ISL we can use ground terminals to route traffic with better latency than 
> fiber links.
> 
> Thanks
> Hesham
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 10:08 AM Lin Han  > wrote:
> Hi, Jim
> 
> I don't have clear answer.
> What I can guess now is that most of current technologies (with enhancement) 
> can be used, but some new technologies might be needed to solve the satellite 
> specific issues, such as fast mobility, frequent topology changes, 
> constraints in satellite power, security in open space, etc.
> It is up to the community to decide what new technologies and what new 
> protocols will be developed.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Lin
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: UTTARO, JAMES mailto:ju1...@att.com>> 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM
> To: Lin Han mailto:lin@futurewei.com>>; 
> Int-area@ietf.org ; i...@ietf.org 
> ; rt...@ietf.org 
> Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk 
> Subject: RE: New Version Notification for 
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
> 
> Lin,
> 
> Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used with 
> or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network require 
> new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out.. 
> 
> Thanks,
> Jim Uttaro
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Idr mailto:idr-boun...@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of 
> Lin Han
> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
> To: Int-area@ietf.org ; i...@ietf.org 
> ; rt...@ietf.org 
> Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk 
> Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for 
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite network 
> when it is integrated with Internet by current routing technologies. 
> It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further 
> solution proposals may also come from different groups including research 
> initiative SARAH.
> 
> Look forwarding to discussion and comments.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Lin
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: internet-dra...@ietf.org  
> mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org>> 
> Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
> To: Lin Han mailto:lin@futurewei.com>>; Richard 
> Li mailto:richard...@futurewei.com>>
> Subject: New Version Notification for 
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
> 
> 
> A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF repository.
> 
> Name:   draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
> Revision:   00
> Title:  Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for 
> Internet
> Document date:  2021-07-03
> Group:  Individual Submission
> Pages:  32
> URL:
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ietf.org*2Farchive*2Fid*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278583772*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000%26amp%3Bsdata%3DqoFJMo63iQsH8W9iTaP5Vx*2F4OjIhXHoY*2BrdbcM*2FMntM*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4RbgGabg%24data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637611780428304372%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=xeP%2BMuWGk%2By8UtK8K9Oinjvk50jBp%2FuZQ2
>  
> 

Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Lin Han]

Hi, Hesham

Thanks for the info.
The reference from prof. Mark has been given in the draft as [UCL-Mark-Handley] 
(sec. 7.2.2), the paper has demonstrated that satellite relay can achieve 
shorter latency than ground fiber network through simulation.
But for commercial use and widely deployment, IETF still needs 
technologies/protocols to solve issues in "multiple satellite relay", such as 
path/satellite selection, IP continuity, etc. Enhanced or new anchor-less 
mobility technologies might be needed to handle so quick/frequent hands over 
and topology changes.

Regards

Lin

From: Hesham ElBakoury 
Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:51 PM
To: Lin Han 
Cc: UTTARO, JAMES ; Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; 
rt...@ietf.org; sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Mark Handley published the paper "Using ground relays for low-latency wide-area 
routing in megaconstellations" to show that even if we do not have ISL we can 
use ground terminals to route traffic with better latency than fiber links.

Thanks
Hesham


On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 10:08 AM Lin Han 
mailto:lin@futurewei.com>> wrote:
Hi, Jim

I don't have clear answer.
What I can guess now is that most of current technologies (with enhancement) 
can be used, but some new technologies might be needed to solve the satellite 
specific issues, such as fast mobility, frequent topology changes, constraints 
in satellite power, security in open space, etc.
It is up to the community to decide what new technologies and what new 
protocols will be developed.

Regards

Lin


-Original Message-
From: UTTARO, JAMES mailto:ju1...@att.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM
To: Lin Han mailto:lin@futurewei.com>>; 
Int-area@ietf.org<mailto:Int-area@ietf.org>; 
i...@ietf.org<mailto:i...@ietf.org>; rt...@ietf.org<mailto:rt...@ietf.org>
Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk<mailto:sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Lin,

Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used with 
or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network require 
new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out..

Thanks,
Jim Uttaro

-Original Message-
From: Idr mailto:idr-boun...@ietf.org>> On Behalf Of Lin 
Han
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
To: Int-area@ietf.org<mailto:Int-area@ietf.org>; 
i...@ietf.org<mailto:i...@ietf.org>; rt...@ietf.org<mailto:rt...@ietf.org>
Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk<mailto:sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk>
Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Hi,

This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite network 
when it is integrated with Internet by current routing technologies.
It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further solution 
proposals may also come from different groups including research initiative 
SARAH.

Look forwarding to discussion and comments.

Thanks

Lin

-Original Message-
From: internet-dra...@ietf.org<mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org> 
mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org>>
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
To: Lin Han mailto:lin@futurewei.com>>; Richard Li 
mailto:richard...@futurewei.com>>
Subject: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:   draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
Revision:   00
Title:  Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for 
Internet
Document date:  2021-07-03
Group:  Individual Submission
Pages:  32
URL:
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Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Hesham ElBakoury]

Mark Handley published the paper "*Using ground relays for low-latency
wide-area routing in megaconstellations"* to show that even if we do not
have ISL we can use ground terminals to route traffic with better latency
than fiber links.

Thanks
Hesham


On Tue, Jul 6, 2021, 10:08 AM Lin Han  wrote:

> Hi, Jim
>
> I don't have clear answer.
> What I can guess now is that most of current technologies (with
> enhancement) can be used, but some new technologies might be needed to
> solve the satellite specific issues, such as fast mobility, frequent
> topology changes, constraints in satellite power, security in open space,
> etc.
> It is up to the community to decide what new technologies and what new
> protocols will be developed.
>
> Regards
>
> Lin
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: UTTARO, JAMES 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM
> To: Lin Han ; Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org;
> rt...@ietf.org
> Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
> Subject: RE: New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
> Lin,
>
> Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used
> with or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network
> require new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out..
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Uttaro
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Idr  On Behalf Of Lin Han
> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
> To: Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; rt...@ietf.org
> Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
> Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
> Hi,
>
> This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite
> network when it is integrated with Internet by current routing
> technologies.
> It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further
> solution proposals may also come from different groups including research
> initiative SARAH.
>
> Look forwarding to discussion and comments.
>
> Thanks
>
> Lin
>
> -Original Message-
> From: internet-dra...@ietf.org 
> Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
> To: Lin Han ; Richard Li 
> Subject: New Version Notification for
> draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF
> repository.
>
> Name:   draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
> Revision:   00
> Title:  Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for
> Internet
> Document date:  2021-07-03
> Group:  Individual Submission
> Pages:  32
> URL:
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ietf.org*2Farchive*2Fid*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278583772*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000%26amp%3Bsdata%3DqoFJMo63iQsH8W9iTaP5Vx*2F4OjIhXHoY*2BrdbcM*2FMntM*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4RbgGabg%24data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637611780428304372%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=xeP%2BMuWGk%2By8UtK8K9Oinjvk50jBp%2FuZQ2
>  rC8uHaH2M%3Dreserved=0
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>  served=0
> Html:
> 

Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[Lin Han]

Hi, Jim

I don't have clear answer.
What I can guess now is that most of current technologies (with enhancement) 
can be used, but some new technologies might be needed to solve the satellite 
specific issues, such as fast mobility, frequent topology changes, constraints 
in satellite power, security in open space, etc.
It is up to the community to decide what new technologies and what new 
protocols will be developed.

Regards

Lin


-Original Message-
From: UTTARO, JAMES  
Sent: Tuesday, July 6, 2021 7:20 AM
To: Lin Han ; Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; 
rt...@ietf.org
Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: RE: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Lin,

Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used with 
or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network require 
new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out.. 

Thanks,
Jim Uttaro

-Original Message-
From: Idr  On Behalf Of Lin Han
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
To: Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; rt...@ietf.org
Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Hi, 

This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite network 
when it is integrated with Internet by current routing technologies. 
It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further solution 
proposals may also come from different groups including research initiative 
SARAH.

Look forwarding to discussion and comments.

Thanks

Lin

-Original Message-
From: internet-dra...@ietf.org  
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
To: Lin Han ; Richard Li 
Subject: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:   draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
Revision:   00
Title:  Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for 
Internet
Document date:  2021-07-03
Group:  Individual Submission
Pages:  32
URL:
https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.ietf.org*2Farchive*2Fid*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278583772*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000%26amp%3Bsdata%3DqoFJMo63iQsH8W9iTaP5Vx*2F4OjIhXHoY*2BrdbcM*2FMntM*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4RbgGabg%24data=04%7C01%7Clin.han%40futurewei.com%7Cc54df16138144c7ed23408d940893b44%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637611780428304372%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=xeP%2BMuWGk%2By8UtK8K9Oinjvk50jBp%2FuZQ2
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 served=0 
Html:   

Re: [Int-area] New Version Notification for draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

[UTTARO, JAMES]

Lin,

Are you suggesting that the current set of protocols can be used with 
or without enhancements or is the uniqueness of the satellite network require 
new protocol(s) to address the architecture you have laid out.. 

Thanks,
Jim Uttaro

-Original Message-
From: Idr  On Behalf Of Lin Han
Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2021 8:41 PM
To: Int-area@ietf.org; i...@ietf.org; rt...@ietf.org
Cc: sa...@jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: [Idr] FW: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt

Hi, 

This draft analyzed the problems and requirements for the satellite network 
when it is integrated with Internet by current routing technologies. 
It may be relevant and interesting to internet, BGP, IGP. The further solution 
proposals may also come from different groups including research initiative 
SARAH.

Look forwarding to discussion and comments.

Thanks

Lin

-Original Message-
From: internet-dra...@ietf.org  
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 5:07 PM
To: Lin Han ; Richard Li 
Subject: New Version Notification for 
draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Lin Han and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:   draft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net
Revision:   00
Title:  Problems and Requirements of Satellite Constellation for 
Internet
Document date:  2021-07-03
Group:  Individual Submission
Pages:  32
URL:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.ietf.org*2Farchive*2Fid*2Fdraft-lhan-problems-requirements-satellite-net-00.txtdata=04*7C01*7Clin.han*40futurewei.com*7C495bb2e109a743748f6108d93e7fa6f8*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637609540278583772*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C1000sdata=qoFJMo63iQsH8W9iTaP5Vx*2F4OjIhXHoY*2BrdbcM*2FMntM*3Dreserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!BhdT!xvPiP9_hbkTD5NSajUzwqMhYGZLdFbSjp8NUTJ6PMxLHqI6tW_E4RbgGabg$
 
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Abstract:
   This document presents the detailed analysis about the problems and
   requirements of satellite constellation used for Internet.  It starts
   from the satellite orbit basics, coverage calculation, then it
   estimates the time constraints for the communications between
   satellite and ground-station, also between satellites.  How to use
   satellite constellation for Internet is discussed in details
   including the satellite relay and satellite networking.  The problems
   and requirements of using traditional network technology for
   satellite network integrating with Internet are finally outlined.


  


The IETF Secretariat


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