Re: [PHP-DEV] [alexander.schrij...@gmail.com: Re: [PHP-DEV] RE: [SPAM] Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON]
Yes, there is a reason: As it was explained before, lemon would not display token names but actual token values. So instead of Unexpected T_PAABLAH it would say Unexpected '::' ... hello, value of some tokens is not what would be expected either. Think a bit about T_STRING for example. There should be a smart algorithm implemented. BTW bison-createdparsercan use a callback (yytnamerr) to replace tokens with something human-readable. Why not use it? -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] [alexander.schrij...@gmail.com: Re: [PHP-DEV] RE: [SPAM] Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON]
Oops, should've sent this to the list too. - Forwarded message from Alexander Schrijver alexander.schrij...@gmail.com - Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:28:59 +0100 From: Alexander Schrijver alexander.schrij...@gmail.com To: James Butler james.but...@edigitalresearch.com Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RE: [SPAM] Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 12:23:07PM +, James Butler wrote: -Original Message- From: Alexander Schrijver [mailto:alexander.schrij...@gmail.com] Sent: 01 November 2010 12:19 To: Stefan Marr Cc: Dennis Haarbrink; Stan Vass; internals@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RE: [SPAM] Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 12:59:54PM +0100, Stefan Marr wrote: On 01 Nov 2010, at 12:06, Alexander Schrijver wrote: Its a minor change and an annoyance to a lot of people. Yes, by not changing this you'r annoying thousands of people. Instead of going for this cosmetic nonsense you should help those people on the lemon branch. I am insulted every time I have to read a parser token name in an error message, instead of a sensible error message. The cost of understanding T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM as part of the current mumbo-jumbo is completely insignificant compared to the cost of actually understanding the error message just indicating what the parser would have expected. Changing to lemon is the only way to actually achieve something in the long run... Right, and be forced to introduce some bullshit hebrew when its done. No, thank you. Err, the entire point is that it won't matter what the underlying token is. The error as seen can be anything you want it to be, or at least you can have a fight about what the new message looks like and i'm sure there won't really be a compelling reason for it to be in hebrew (unless localized). Please grow up... It's the policy: There are two reasons this term will stay. It is a tip of the hat to the amount of PHP work that came out of Israel, and it is a good reminder that there are a lot of other languages in the world. People whose first language is not English, myself included, are forced to work with unfamiliar terms every day. I wouldn't mind having a few more non-English identifiers in PHP actually. Well, and a third reason, I like it. There is some reason this policy will change after i write this new tokenizer? - End forwarded message - -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [alexander.schrij...@gmail.com: Re: [PHP-DEV] RE: [SPAM] Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON]
On Nov 01 13:30:58, Alexander Schrijver wrote: Oops, should've sent this to the list too. - Forwarded message from Alexander Schrijver alexander.schrij...@gmail.com - Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:28:59 +0100 From: Alexander Schrijver alexander.schrij...@gmail.com To: James Butler james.but...@edigitalresearch.com Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RE: [SPAM] Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 12:23:07PM +, James Butler wrote: -Original Message- From: Alexander Schrijver [mailto:alexander.schrij...@gmail.com] Sent: 01 November 2010 12:19 To: Stefan Marr Cc: Dennis Haarbrink; Stan Vass; internals@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RE: [SPAM] Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 12:59:54PM +0100, Stefan Marr wrote: On 01 Nov 2010, at 12:06, Alexander Schrijver wrote: Its a minor change and an annoyance to a lot of people. Yes, by not changing this you'r annoying thousands of people. Instead of going for this cosmetic nonsense you should help those people on the lemon branch. I am insulted every time I have to read a parser token name in an error message, instead of a sensible error message. The cost of understanding T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM as part of the current mumbo-jumbo is completely insignificant compared to the cost of actually understanding the error message just indicating what the parser would have expected. Changing to lemon is the only way to actually achieve something in the long run... Right, and be forced to introduce some bullshit hebrew when its done. No, thank you. Err, the entire point is that it won't matter what the underlying token is. The error as seen can be anything you want it to be, or at least you can have a fight about what the new message looks like and i'm sure there won't really be a compelling reason for it to be in hebrew (unless localized). Please grow up... It's the policy: There are two reasons this term will stay. It is a tip of the hat to the amount of PHP work that came out of Israel, and it is a good reminder that there are a lot of other languages in the world. People whose first language is not English, myself included, are forced to work with unfamiliar terms every day. I wouldn't mind having a few more non-English identifiers in PHP actually. Well, and a third reason, I like it. There is some reason this policy will change after i write this new tokenizer? Yes, there is a reason: As it was explained before, lemon would not display token names but actual token values. So instead of Unexpected T_PAABLAH it would say Unexpected '::' ... Best, - End forwarded message - -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- Etienne Kneuss http://www.colder.ch -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [alexander.schrij...@gmail.com: Re: [PHP-DEV] RE: [SPAM] Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON]
On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 01:36:24PM +0100, Etienne Kneuss wrote: It's the policy: There are two reasons this term will stay. It is a tip of the hat to the amount of PHP work that came out of Israel, and it is a good reminder that there are a lot of other languages in the world. People whose first language is not English, myself included, are forced to work with unfamiliar terms every day. I wouldn't mind having a few more non-English identifiers in PHP actually. Well, and a third reason, I like it. There is some reason this policy will change after i write this new tokenizer? Yes, there is a reason: As it was explained before, lemon would not display token names but actual token values. So instead of Unexpected T_PAABLAH it would say Unexpected '::' ... But the lesson Rasmus was telling us about would go away. Yet, this is one of the reasons the token is being kept. I am confused. Are you telling me this is a lesson for the programmers to be learned? Not for the users? -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] [alexander.schrij...@gmail.com: Re: [PHP-DEV] RE: [SPAM] Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON]
On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 1:43 PM, Alexander Schrijver alexander.schrij...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 01:36:24PM +0100, Etienne Kneuss wrote: It's the policy: There are two reasons this term will stay. It is a tip of the hat to the amount of PHP work that came out of Israel, and it is a good reminder that there are a lot of other languages in the world. People whose first language is not English, myself included, are forced to work with unfamiliar terms every day. I wouldn't mind having a few more non-English identifiers in PHP actually. Well, and a third reason, I like it. There is some reason this policy will change after i write this new tokenizer? Yes, there is a reason: As it was explained before, lemon would not display token names but actual token values. So instead of Unexpected T_PAABLAH it would say Unexpected '::' ... But the lesson Rasmus was telling us about would go away. Yet, this is one of the reasons the token is being kept. I am confused. Are you telling me this is a lesson for the programmers to be learned? Not for the users? -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php Ive just brought up in the original thread, maybe we should go back there. Tyrael
Re: [PHP-DEV] [alexander.schrij...@gmail.com: Re: [PHP-DEV] RE: [SPAM] Re: [PHP-DEV] rename T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM to T_DOUBLE_COLON]
On Nov 01 13:43:14, Alexander Schrijver wrote: On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 01:36:24PM +0100, Etienne Kneuss wrote: It's the policy: There are two reasons this term will stay. It is a tip of the hat to the amount of PHP work that came out of Israel, and it is a good reminder that there are a lot of other languages in the world. People whose first language is not English, myself included, are forced to work with unfamiliar terms every day. I wouldn't mind having a few more non-English identifiers in PHP actually. Well, and a third reason, I like it. There is some reason this policy will change after i write this new tokenizer? Yes, there is a reason: As it was explained before, lemon would not display token names but actual token values. So instead of Unexpected T_PAABLAH it would say Unexpected '::' ... But the lesson Rasmus was telling us about would go away. Yet, this is one of the reasons the token is being kept. I am confused. Are you telling me this is a lesson for the programmers to be learned? Not for the users? I believe that what Rasmus meant is that a simple _renaming_ of this token was not justified. I don't think that he would be against a parser change that would bring much more to the table, solely because it would make this gem disappear (at least I hope). But then again, even though Felipe did an amazing job with this lemon switch, few problems still prevent this change from happening in a near future. Best, -- Etienne Kneuss http://www.colder.ch -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
