Re: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019, 02:32 Peter Kokot On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 13:57, Derick Rethans wrote: > > > > On Mon, 28 Jan 2019, Zeev Suraski wrote: > > > > > > > > > I would like to make two changes to this header: > > > > > > > > 1. Change "PHP Version 7" line to just "PHP", to avoid the necessity > of updating this for > > > > new major versions. I don't think the version information here is > particularly useful to > > > > anybody. > > > > > > I don't mind that much, but I don't see any issue with keeping it the > way it is either. It does look nicer the way it is now IMHO, and the cost > associated with changing it twice a decade is, well, not very substantial. > > > > > > > 2. Remove the "Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group" line. Apart > from requiring a > > > > yearly update, this line is actually complete misinformation, > because the PHP group > > > > does *not* hold the copyright for the PHP source code. This would > require a copyright > > > > assignment agreement on behalf of all contributors, which we do not > collect. > > > > > > > > We could also just drop the header entirely, I'm just proposing > these two changes as > > > > the path of least resistance towards getting the "annoying" parts > removed. > > > > > > I'm no lawyer, but I do believe a case can be made for claiming that a > > > person putting code into files with the header 'Copyright (c) XYZ', is > > > in fact implicitly assigning copyright to XYZ. So while it's not as > > > strong as an explicit copyright assignment, and while it was never > > > tested in court (and hopefully never will be) - I do see value in > > > keeping it. I certainly don't see a reason to change it after 20 > > > years where it didn't seem to bother anybody, unless there's a strong > > > reason to do that, which currently I don't see. > > > > It could be changed to "1997-present" though, in which case it doesn't > > need updating once a year (and messing up history in VCS). > > > > cheers, > > Derick > > > > -- > > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List > > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > > > Hello, > > I've prepared quick pull request [1] that fixes the missed headers in > source code files and additionally bumps or changes the year range on > other places. > > Questions: > > 1.) What should "php -v" output regarding copyrights and year ranges? > 2.) What should "man php" include under the COPYRIGHT section > regarding the year ranges? > 3.) Similarly, should there be a common pattern for places like > phpinfo() output? > > Thanks. > > [1] https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/3791 > > -- > Peter Kokot > The pull request with a quickfix [1] to sync the year ranges will be merged this weekend if everyone's ok with this... So now, only the LICENSE file optionally gets bumped the year ranges and that simplifies managing files significantly for the better. Thank you. [1] https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/3791 >
Re: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers
On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 13:57, Derick Rethans wrote: > > On Mon, 28 Jan 2019, Zeev Suraski wrote: > > > > > > I would like to make two changes to this header: > > > > > > 1. Change "PHP Version 7" line to just "PHP", to avoid the necessity of > > > updating this for > > > new major versions. I don't think the version information here is > > > particularly useful to > > > anybody. > > > > I don't mind that much, but I don't see any issue with keeping it the way > > it is either. It does look nicer the way it is now IMHO, and the cost > > associated with changing it twice a decade is, well, not very substantial. > > > > > 2. Remove the "Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group" line. Apart from > > > requiring a > > > yearly update, this line is actually complete misinformation, because the > > > PHP group > > > does *not* hold the copyright for the PHP source code. This would require > > > a copyright > > > assignment agreement on behalf of all contributors, which we do not > > > collect. > > > > > > We could also just drop the header entirely, I'm just proposing these two > > > changes as > > > the path of least resistance towards getting the "annoying" parts removed. > > > > I'm no lawyer, but I do believe a case can be made for claiming that a > > person putting code into files with the header 'Copyright (c) XYZ', is > > in fact implicitly assigning copyright to XYZ. So while it's not as > > strong as an explicit copyright assignment, and while it was never > > tested in court (and hopefully never will be) - I do see value in > > keeping it. I certainly don't see a reason to change it after 20 > > years where it didn't seem to bother anybody, unless there's a strong > > reason to do that, which currently I don't see. > > It could be changed to "1997-present" though, in which case it doesn't > need updating once a year (and messing up history in VCS). > > cheers, > Derick > > -- > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > Hello, I've prepared quick pull request [1] that fixes the missed headers in source code files and additionally bumps or changes the year range on other places. Questions: 1.) What should "php -v" output regarding copyrights and year ranges? 2.) What should "man php" include under the COPYRIGHT section regarding the year ranges? 3.) Similarly, should there be a common pattern for places like phpinfo() output? Thanks. [1] https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/3791 -- Peter Kokot -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers
On Mon, 28 Jan 2019, Zeev Suraski wrote: > > > I would like to make two changes to this header: > > > > 1. Change "PHP Version 7" line to just "PHP", to avoid the necessity of > > updating this for > > new major versions. I don't think the version information here is > > particularly useful to > > anybody. > > I don't mind that much, but I don't see any issue with keeping it the way it > is either. It does look nicer the way it is now IMHO, and the cost > associated with changing it twice a decade is, well, not very substantial. > > > 2. Remove the "Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group" line. Apart from > > requiring a > > yearly update, this line is actually complete misinformation, because the > > PHP group > > does *not* hold the copyright for the PHP source code. This would require a > > copyright > > assignment agreement on behalf of all contributors, which we do not collect. > > > > We could also just drop the header entirely, I'm just proposing these two > > changes as > > the path of least resistance towards getting the "annoying" parts removed. > > I'm no lawyer, but I do believe a case can be made for claiming that a > person putting code into files with the header 'Copyright (c) XYZ', is > in fact implicitly assigning copyright to XYZ. So while it's not as > strong as an explicit copyright assignment, and while it was never > tested in court (and hopefully never will be) - I do see value in > keeping it. I certainly don't see a reason to change it after 20 > years where it didn't seem to bother anybody, unless there's a strong > reason to do that, which currently I don't see. It could be changed to "1997-present" though, in which case it doesn't need updating once a year (and messing up history in VCS). cheers, Derick -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers
On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 10:05 AM Zeev Suraski wrote: > > Okay, let's change it to "(c) The PHP Group" then. While that doesn't > make it right, it does remove my main annoyance. > > > Done for master and the 7.4 branch. Thoughts on other versions? > > Zeev > Thanks! I think either way is fine there. I'd probably just leave them as is. We should probably make the same change for Zend code as well, which uses a different copyright line: Copyright (c) 1998-2018 Zend Technologies Ltd. (http://www.zend.com) Regards, Nikita
RE: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers
> Okay, let's change it to "(c) The PHP Group" then. While that doesn't make it > right, it does remove my main annoyance. Done for master and the 7.4 branch. Thoughts on other versions? Zeev
Re: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers
On Tue, Jan 29, 2019 at 12:24 AM Zeev Suraski wrote: > > > No, this case cannot be made. You are likely mixing up licensing and > copyright here. Licensing (in the absence of a CLA) follows the > inbound=outbound principle, i.e., it is understood that inbound > contributions are made under the same terms as the outbound license. > However (in the absence of a copyright assignment agreement) each > contributor retains copyright for their contributions. > > > > I'm certainly not confusing licensing and copyright, Nikita, and with due > respect - you don't know what you're saying for a fact, neither does > anybody really, as I'm not aware it's ever been tested in court. We have > purposely included the copyright notice on each and every file, and whether > adding code to such files out of one's free will constitutes written > consent or not is at the very least debatable (and potentially has > different answers depending on the jurisdiction). > > > > And while this may not bother you personally, this discussion comes up > every single year when the inevitable year increment PRs start rolling in. > The most recent one for 2019 is https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/3730, > which triggered this mail. I am rather predisposed against commits that > touch a large part of the codebase to make a change that is not just wholly > unnecessary, but also legally extremely dubious. > > > > If the yearly sed annoyance is the true source of the issue then let's go > with one of the proposals made on that thread – i.e. use "-present" or just > "(c) The PHP Group" without years. > Okay, let's change it to "(c) The PHP Group" then. While that doesn't make it right, it does remove my main annoyance. Nikita
RE: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers
No, this case cannot be made. You are likely mixing up licensing and copyright here. Licensing (in the absence of a CLA) follows the inbound=outbound principle, i.e., it is understood that inbound contributions are made under the same terms as the outbound license. However (in the absence of a copyright assignment agreement) each contributor retains copyright for their contributions. I'm certainly not confusing licensing and copyright, Nikita, and with due respect - you don't know what you're saying for a fact, neither does anybody really, as I'm not aware it's ever been tested in court. We have purposely included the copyright notice on each and every file, and whether adding code to such files out of one's free will constitutes written consent or not is at the very least debatable (and potentially has different answers depending on the jurisdiction). And while this may not bother you personally, this discussion comes up every single year when the inevitable year increment PRs start rolling in. The most recent one for 2019 is https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/3730, which triggered this mail. I am rather predisposed against commits that touch a large part of the codebase to make a change that is not just wholly unnecessary, but also legally extremely dubious. If the yearly sed annoyance is the true source of the issue then let's go with one of the proposals made on that thread – i.e. use "-present" or just "(c) The PHP Group" without years. Zeev (sorry for the HTML email, there's a bit of a mess with my email client right now.)
Re: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers
On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 4:38 PM Zeev Suraski wrote: > > > I would like to make two changes to this header: > > > > 1. Change "PHP Version 7" line to just "PHP", to avoid the necessity of > updating this for > > new major versions. I don't think the version information here is > particularly useful to > > anybody. > > I don't mind that much, but I don't see any issue with keeping it the way > it is either. It does look nicer the way it is now IMHO, and the cost > associated with changing it twice a decade is, well, not very substantial. > > > 2. Remove the "Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group" line. Apart from > requiring a > > yearly update, this line is actually complete misinformation, because > the PHP group > > does *not* hold the copyright for the PHP source code. This would > require a copyright > > assignment agreement on behalf of all contributors, which we do not > collect. > > > > We could also just drop the header entirely, I'm just proposing these > two changes as > > the path of least resistance towards getting the "annoying" parts > removed. > > I'm no lawyer, but I do believe a case can be made for claiming that a > person putting code into files with the header 'Copyright (c) XYZ', is in > fact implicitly assigning copyright to XYZ. So while it's not as strong as > an explicit copyright assignment, and while it was never tested in court > (and hopefully never will be) - I do see value in keeping it. I certainly > don't see a reason to change it after 20 years where it didn't seem to > bother anybody, unless there's a strong reason to do that, which currently > I don't see. > > Zeev > No, this case cannot be made. You are likely mixing up licensing and copyright here. Licensing (in the absence of a CLA) follows the inbound=outbound principle, i.e., it is understood that inbound contributions are made under the same terms as the outbound license. However (in the absence of a copyright assignment agreement) each contributor retains copyright for their contributions. And while this may not bother you personally, this discussion comes up every single year when the inevitable year increment PRs start rolling in. The most recent one for 2019 is https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/3730, which triggered this mail. I am rather predisposed against commits that touch a large part of the codebase to make a change that is not just wholly unnecessary, but also legally extremely dubious. Nikita
Re: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers
Den 2019-01-28 kl. 16:38, skrev Zeev Suraski: I would like to make two changes to this header: 1. Change "PHP Version 7" line to just "PHP", to avoid the necessity of updating this for new major versions. I don't think the version information here is particularly useful to anybody. I don't mind that much, but I don't see any issue with keeping it the way it is either. It does look nicer the way it is now IMHO, and the cost associated with changing it twice a decade is, well, not very substantial. 2. Remove the "Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group" line. Apart from requiring a yearly update, this line is actually complete misinformation, because the PHP group does *not* hold the copyright for the PHP source code. This would require a copyright assignment agreement on behalf of all contributors, which we do not collect. We could also just drop the header entirely, I'm just proposing these two changes as the path of least resistance towards getting the "annoying" parts removed. I'm no lawyer, but I do believe a case can be made for claiming that a person putting code into files with the header 'Copyright (c) XYZ', is in fact implicitly assigning copyright to XYZ. So while it's not as strong as an explicit copyright assignment, and while it was never tested in court (and hopefully never will be) - I do see value in keeping it. I certainly don't see a reason to change it after 20 years where it didn't seem to bother anybody, unless there's a strong reason to do that, which currently I don't see. Zeev I think you have a very good point here. The license file also refers to the PHP Group, so removing it in header files might indirectly affect license statement. r//Björn Larsson -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers
Intellectual rights include: non-property rights (right to authorship, right to author's name, etc.); property rights (exclusive rights or copyright); A very interesting question appears: Who own the copyright for the PHP source code? Is Nikita right when he says that the copyright on PHP belongs to all the co-authors who contributed to the development? Best regards, Ruslan On 28/01/2019, Zeev Suraski wrote: > >> I would like to make two changes to this header: >> >> 1. Change "PHP Version 7" line to just "PHP", to avoid the necessity of >> updating this for >> new major versions. I don't think the version information here is >> particularly useful to >> anybody. > > I don't mind that much, but I don't see any issue with keeping it the way it > is either. It does look nicer the way it is now IMHO, and the cost > associated with changing it twice a decade is, well, not very substantial. > >> 2. Remove the "Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group" line. Apart from >> requiring a >> yearly update, this line is actually complete misinformation, because the >> PHP group >> does *not* hold the copyright for the PHP source code. This would require >> a copyright >> assignment agreement on behalf of all contributors, which we do not >> collect. >> >> We could also just drop the header entirely, I'm just proposing these two >> changes as >> the path of least resistance towards getting the "annoying" parts >> removed. > > I'm no lawyer, but I do believe a case can be made for claiming that a > person putting code into files with the header 'Copyright (c) XYZ', is in > fact implicitly assigning copyright to XYZ. So while it's not as strong as > an explicit copyright assignment, and while it was never tested in court > (and hopefully never will be) - I do see value in keeping it. I certainly > don't see a reason to change it after 20 years where it didn't seem to > bother anybody, unless there's a strong reason to do that, which currently I > don't see. > > Zeev > -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers
> I would like to make two changes to this header: > > 1. Change "PHP Version 7" line to just "PHP", to avoid the necessity of > updating this for > new major versions. I don't think the version information here is > particularly useful to > anybody. I don't mind that much, but I don't see any issue with keeping it the way it is either. It does look nicer the way it is now IMHO, and the cost associated with changing it twice a decade is, well, not very substantial. > 2. Remove the "Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group" line. Apart from > requiring a > yearly update, this line is actually complete misinformation, because the PHP > group > does *not* hold the copyright for the PHP source code. This would require a > copyright > assignment agreement on behalf of all contributors, which we do not collect. > > We could also just drop the header entirely, I'm just proposing these two > changes as > the path of least resistance towards getting the "annoying" parts removed. I'm no lawyer, but I do believe a case can be made for claiming that a person putting code into files with the header 'Copyright (c) XYZ', is in fact implicitly assigning copyright to XYZ. So while it's not as strong as an explicit copyright assignment, and while it was never tested in court (and hopefully never will be) - I do see value in keeping it. I certainly don't see a reason to change it after 20 years where it didn't seem to bother anybody, unless there's a strong reason to do that, which currently I don't see. Zeev
RE: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers
From: Levi Morrison Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 5:20 PM To: Legale.legale Cc: Nikita Popov ; PHP internals Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers > I have modified various files but don't think my name is on any of them. When > ought it be there? Isn't git better at tracking that anyway? When your either the or one of the principal authors of the file. A few patches here and there probably don't warrant an addition, but writing or substantially modifying large parts of the file probably does. Zeev
Re: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers
On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 2:54 PM Legale.legale wrote: > > I think author's name on each file is good practice. Once i used this > information. > IMHO the shortest header is the nicest one.On Jan 27, 2019 20:38, Nikita > Popov wrote: I have modified various files but don't think my name is on any of them. When ought it be there? Isn't git better at tracking that anyway? -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers
On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 at 20:39, Nikita Popov wrote: > > Hi internals, > > Some of our source files currently contain a license header similar to this: > > /* > +--+ > | PHP Version 7 | > +--+ > | Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group | > +--+ > | This source file is subject to version 3.01 of the PHP license, | > | that is bundled with this package in the file LICENSE, and is | > | available through the world-wide-web at the following url: | > | http://www.php.net/license/3_01.txt | > | If you did not receive a copy of the PHP license and are unable to | > | obtain it through the world-wide-web, please send a note to | > | lice...@php.net so we can mail you a copy immediately. | > +--+ > | Authors: Andi Gutmans | > | Zeev Suraski | > +--+ > */ > > I would like to make two changes to this header: > > 1. Change "PHP Version 7" line to just "PHP", to avoid the necessity of > updating this for new major versions. I don't think the version information > here is particularly useful to anybody. > > 2. Remove the "Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group" line. Apart from > requiring a yearly update, this line is actually complete misinformation, > because the PHP group does *not* hold the copyright for the PHP source > code. This would require a copyright assignment agreement on behalf of all > contributors, which we do not collect. > > We could also just drop the header entirely, I'm just proposing these two > changes as the path of least resistance towards getting the "annoying" > parts removed. > > Regards, > Nikita And maybe also additional change from: http://www.php.net/license/3_01.txt to https short link that points to license content as well: https://php.net/license/3_01.txt -- Peter Kokot -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Simplify license headers
I think author's name on each file is good practice. Once i used this information. IMHO the shortest header is the nicest one.On Jan 27, 2019 20:38, Nikita Popov wrote: > > Hi internals, > > Some of our source files currently contain a license header similar to this: > > /* > +--+ > | PHP Version 7 | > +--+ > | Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group | > +--+ > | This source file is subject to version 3.01 of the PHP license, | > | that is bundled with this package in the file LICENSE, and is | > | available through the world-wide-web at the following url: | > | http://www.php.net/license/3_01.txt | > | If you did not receive a copy of the PHP license and are unable to | > | obtain it through the world-wide-web, please send a note to | > | lice...@php.net so we can mail you a copy immediately. | > +--+ > | Authors: Andi Gutmans | > | Zeev Suraski | > +--+ > */ > > I would like to make two changes to this header: > > 1. Change "PHP Version 7" line to just "PHP", to avoid the necessity of > updating this for new major versions. I don't think the version information > here is particularly useful to anybody. > > 2. Remove the "Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group" line. Apart from > requiring a yearly update, this line is actually complete misinformation, > because the PHP group does *not* hold the copyright for the PHP source > code. This would require a copyright assignment agreement on behalf of all > contributors, which we do not collect. > > We could also just drop the header entirely, I'm just proposing these two > changes as the path of least resistance towards getting the "annoying" > parts removed. > > Regards, > Nikita -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
