Re: [JAWS-Users] My experience with a Windows 8 Microsoft Surface Proand JAWS
thank you for this review, a friend of mine was shouting the virtues of the surface, and had me partially interested, but he voiced no flaws or differences, so again, thanks for the reality check. elf -Original Message- From: JAWS-Users-List [mailto:jaws-users-list-boun...@jaws-users.com] On Behalf Of Eric Damery Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 11:50 AM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: [JAWS-Users] My experience with a Windows 8 Microsoft Surface Proand JAWS Hello all, In my continued search for a really great Windows 8 Tablet PC, I got the MS Surface Pro. With it, I purchased the $130 keyboard that Microsoft sells with it as an upgrade. I must say, I had very high hopes for this device and to be honest, the Surface itself is excellent. Great battery life, even though it is a bit slow to charge. Very quick, especially the boot up which is about 10 to 15 seconds max. It has a 128 Solid State Drive and I got a 64 Gig micro card to plug in the side. The speakers are not great but I have a jam box and it paired up very nicely. JAWS installs and runs without any issues. I have JAWS 14 release and I'm also doing testing hear at the office with JAWS 15 of course, which I'll be showing at the summer conventions and we'll get released to Public Beta about September 1st. So you might ask, what is the problem... The Keyboard is terrible for a keyboard user, especially one trying to drive a screen reader. For just typing a document, it is very nice. Good feel to the keys for a thin add-on keyboard cover and the spacing is very nice, but it ends there. I find 4 issues that will force me to return this setup to Amazon. 1. The FN key is two keys to the right of the spacebar rather than on the left side. 2. The Function Keys F1 - F12 all require the FN key and there is no way to switch it so the F1 - F12 could work without the FN key. 3. There is no Insert Key so you must use Laptop Layout with CapsLock as the JAWS key, which would be OK if the FN key was on the left side also I guess. Just to get a Links List requires great coordination using CapsLock + FN + F7. 4. Finally, the Space Bar is extended left, half way across the X key on the keyboard. My other laptop keyboards have always ended the spacebar at the C and then an ALT key so my thumb just drops onto the ALT nicely when needed. With this one, I'm pressing SpaceBar all the time. Now granted, if number 4 was the only issue, I would adjust but the first 3, make it impossible for me to consider and I decided to write this because lots of people are considering looking at these new devices and before you plunk down $1000 to $1200 on one of these, I figured this could be helpful in avoiding a mistake. Again, I had such high hopes for this MS Surface. But I have not given up my search either. I'll find something yet. BTW, I still am using the Toshiba Protégé 835 UltraBook I bought last year and love it. But it doesn't have a touch screen and people want to see that working this year so I'm continuing my search. Regards, Eric Eric Damery Vice President Software Product Management Freedom Scientific 11800 31st Court North St. Petersburg, FL 33716 727-299-6110 For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: http://www.jaws-users.com/help/ For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: http://www.jaws-users.com/help/
Re: [JAWS-Users] My experience with a Windows 8 Microsoft Surface Proand JAWS
Hi Eric, The ability to turn off the FN key with the F1 through F12 keys is done in the BIOS, and a sighted individual can change this for you. Of late, it's become a trend for manufacturers to turn that FN key to a modifier key for the F keys, mostly because those keys, when used in conjunction with laptops, also have video and audio controls, as well as mouse and track pad controls that a great many people are using more and more frequently, so they've decided to leave it on, unwittingly making it harder for us blind folks to use. In essence, if you've got sighted assistance, as the computer is booting up, tap one of three possible keys, Delete, F1 or F10. Unfortunately, accessing a computer's BIOS does not have any standard keystroke, but instead of going through which models use which keys, you can try one of the above keys. In most computers, it's usually the delete key, followed by the next most used key of F1, and followed by the few who use F10. Try each key in succession to yield the most success. Suffice it to say, going into the BIOS will allow you to change that particular annoyance, and possibly making the use of the keyboard more enjoyable, or rather, as enjoyable as using a FN key on the right of a keyboard can be. LOL. Scorpio For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: http://www.jaws-users.com/help/
Re: [JAWS-Users] My experience with a Windows 8 Microsoft Surface Proand JAWS
I'm chuckling because you have obviously forgotten that Eric is fully sited himself, but never the less a very well written message I must say. David Ferrin A complex system that does not work is invariably found to have evolved from a simpler system that worked perfectly. -Original Message- From: JAWS-Users-List [mailto:jaws-users-list-boun...@jaws-users.com] On Behalf Of Scorpio Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 12:35 PM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] My experience with a Windows 8 Microsoft Surface Proand JAWS Hi Eric, The ability to turn off the FN key with the F1 through F12 keys is done in the BIOS, and a sighted individual can change this for you. Of late, it's become a trend for manufacturers to turn that FN key to a modifier key for the F keys, mostly because those keys, when used in conjunction with laptops, also have video and audio controls, as well as mouse and track pad controls that a great many people are using more and more frequently, so they've decided to leave it on, unwittingly making it harder for us blind folks to use. In essence, if you've got sighted assistance, as the computer is booting up, tap one of three possible keys, Delete, F1 or F10. Unfortunately, accessing a computer's BIOS does not have any standard keystroke, but instead of going through which models use which keys, you can try one of the above keys. In most computers, it's usually the delete key, followed by the next most used key of F1, and followed by the few who use F10. Try each key in succession to yield the most success. Suffice it to say, going into the BIOS will allow you to change that particular annoyance, and possibly making the use of the keyboard more enjoyable, or rather, as enjoyable as using a FN key on the right of a keyboard can be. LOL. Scorpio For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: http://www.jaws-users.com/help/ For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: http://www.jaws-users.com/help/
Re: [JAWS-Users] My experience with a Windows 8 Microsoft Surface Proand JAWS
Hi Scorpio, I'm aware of using the BIOS to make this change and have done it on other computers before. But, after a day's worth of research on-line, and a couple of communication with Microsoft, I've become convinced that it really isn't possible to get into the BIOS and adjust it on these Surfaces. Believe me, I tried. Regards, Eric -Original Message- From: JAWS-Users-List [mailto:jaws-users-list-boun...@jaws-users.com] On Behalf Of Scorpio Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 12:35 PM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] My experience with a Windows 8 Microsoft Surface Proand JAWS Hi Eric, The ability to turn off the FN key with the F1 through F12 keys is done in the BIOS, and a sighted individual can change this for you. Of late, it's become a trend for manufacturers to turn that FN key to a modifier key for the F keys, mostly because those keys, when used in conjunction with laptops, also have video and audio controls, as well as mouse and track pad controls that a great many people are using more and more frequently, so they've decided to leave it on, unwittingly making it harder for us blind folks to use. In essence, if you've got sighted assistance, as the computer is booting up, tap one of three possible keys, Delete, F1 or F10. Unfortunately, accessing a computer's BIOS does not have any standard keystroke, but instead of going through which models use which keys, you can try one of the above keys. In most computers, it's usually the delete key, followed by the next most used key of F1, and followed by the few who use F10. Try each key in succession to yield the most success. Suffice it to say, going into the BIOS will allow you to change that particular annoyance, and possibly making the use of the keyboard more enjoyable, or rather, as enjoyable as using a FN key on the right of a keyboard can be. LOL. Scorpio For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: http://www.jaws-users.com/help/ For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: http://www.jaws-users.com/help/
Re: [JAWS-Users] My experience with a Windows 8 Microsoft Surface Proand JAWS
Hi eric: I have recently bought a asus windows 8 notebook, with a touchpad. I was wondering in Jaws 15, will FS be adding support for the windows 8 apps? I can use the sports app pretty well, I have also downloaded the ESPN app from the store and used it as well through trial and error. I usually turn off the touchpad with fn+f9 keystroke, which is a toggle keystroke on this laptop. do you know of any more accessible apps that work well with Jaws 14? One more item, jaws tends to loose focus quite a bit in windows 8. thank you very much... -Original Message- From: Eric Damery Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 2:49 PM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: [JAWS-Users] My experience with a Windows 8 Microsoft Surface Proand JAWS Hello all, In my continued search for a really great Windows 8 Tablet PC, I got the MS Surface Pro. With it, I purchased the $130 keyboard that Microsoft sells with it as an upgrade. I must say, I had very high hopes for this device and to be honest, the Surface itself is excellent. Great battery life, even though it is a bit slow to charge. Very quick, especially the boot up which is about 10 to 15 seconds max. It has a 128 Solid State Drive and I got a 64 Gig micro card to plug in the side. The speakers are not great but I have a jam box and it paired up very nicely. JAWS installs and runs without any issues. I have JAWS 14 release and I'm also doing testing hear at the office with JAWS 15 of course, which I'll be showing at the summer conventions and we'll get released to Public Beta about September 1st. So you might ask, what is the problem... The Keyboard is terrible for a keyboard user, especially one trying to drive a screen reader. For just typing a document, it is very nice. Good feel to the keys for a thin add-on keyboard cover and the spacing is very nice, but it ends there. I find 4 issues that will force me to return this setup to Amazon. 1. The FN key is two keys to the right of the spacebar rather than on the left side. 2. The Function Keys F1 - F12 all require the FN key and there is no way to switch it so the F1 - F12 could work without the FN key. 3. There is no Insert Key so you must use Laptop Layout with CapsLock as the JAWS key, which would be OK if the FN key was on the left side also I guess. Just to get a Links List requires great coordination using CapsLock + FN + F7. 4. Finally, the Space Bar is extended left, half way across the X key on the keyboard. My other laptop keyboards have always ended the spacebar at the C and then an ALT key so my thumb just drops onto the ALT nicely when needed. With this one, I'm pressing SpaceBar all the time. Now granted, if number 4 was the only issue, I would adjust but the first 3, make it impossible for me to consider and I decided to write this because lots of people are considering looking at these new devices and before you plunk down $1000 to $1200 on one of these, I figured this could be helpful in avoiding a mistake. Again, I had such high hopes for this MS Surface. But I have not given up my search either. I'll find something yet. BTW, I still am using the Toshiba Protégé 835 UltraBook I bought last year and love it. But it doesn't have a touch screen and people want to see that working this year so I'm continuing my search. Regards, Eric Eric Damery Vice President Software Product Management Freedom Scientific 11800 31st Court North St. Petersburg, FL 33716 727-299-6110 For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: http://www.jaws-users.com/help/ For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: http://www.jaws-users.com/help/
Re: [JAWS-Users] My experience with a Windows 8 Microsoft Surface Proand JAWS
Access to the Modern apps in Win 8 is really hit and miss. We are working on a solution in JAWS 15 which should help with many more than you can work with today in JAWS 14. As for losing focus in Windows 8, if you can provide some examples or further explanation, I'll keep an eye on it myself and ask around in Support, where they are running Win 8 on most machines now. I have not really noticed a case of JAWS losing focus in Windows 8 to be honest. Regards, Eric -Original Message- From: JAWS-Users-List [mailto:jaws-users-list-boun...@jaws-users.com] On Behalf Of jim Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 4:28 PM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] My experience with a Windows 8 Microsoft Surface Proand JAWS Hi eric: I have recently bought a asus windows 8 notebook, with a touchpad. I was wondering in Jaws 15, will FS be adding support for the windows 8 apps? I can use the sports app pretty well, I have also downloaded the ESPN app from the store and used it as well through trial and error. I usually turn off the touchpad with fn+f9 keystroke, which is a toggle keystroke on this laptop. do you know of any more accessible apps that work well with Jaws 14? One more item, jaws tends to loose focus quite a bit in windows 8. thank you very much... -Original Message- From: Eric Damery Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 2:49 PM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: [JAWS-Users] My experience with a Windows 8 Microsoft Surface Proand JAWS Hello all, In my continued search for a really great Windows 8 Tablet PC, I got the MS Surface Pro. With it, I purchased the $130 keyboard that Microsoft sells with it as an upgrade. I must say, I had very high hopes for this device and to be honest, the Surface itself is excellent. Great battery life, even though it is a bit slow to charge. Very quick, especially the boot up which is about 10 to 15 seconds max. It has a 128 Solid State Drive and I got a 64 Gig micro card to plug in the side. The speakers are not great but I have a jam box and it paired up very nicely. JAWS installs and runs without any issues. I have JAWS 14 release and I'm also doing testing hear at the office with JAWS 15 of course, which I'll be showing at the summer conventions and we'll get released to Public Beta about September 1st. So you might ask, what is the problem... The Keyboard is terrible for a keyboard user, especially one trying to drive a screen reader. For just typing a document, it is very nice. Good feel to the keys for a thin add-on keyboard cover and the spacing is very nice, but it ends there. I find 4 issues that will force me to return this setup to Amazon. 1. The FN key is two keys to the right of the spacebar rather than on the left side. 2. The Function Keys F1 - F12 all require the FN key and there is no way to switch it so the F1 - F12 could work without the FN key. 3. There is no Insert Key so you must use Laptop Layout with CapsLock as the JAWS key, which would be OK if the FN key was on the left side also I guess. Just to get a Links List requires great coordination using CapsLock + FN + F7. 4. Finally, the Space Bar is extended left, half way across the X key on the keyboard. My other laptop keyboards have always ended the spacebar at the C and then an ALT key so my thumb just drops onto the ALT nicely when needed. With this one, I'm pressing SpaceBar all the time. Now granted, if number 4 was the only issue, I would adjust but the first 3, make it impossible for me to consider and I decided to write this because lots of people are considering looking at these new devices and before you plunk down $1000 to $1200 on one of these, I figured this could be helpful in avoiding a mistake. Again, I had such high hopes for this MS Surface. But I have not given up my search either. I'll find something yet. BTW, I still am using the Toshiba Protégé 835 UltraBook I bought last year and love it. But it doesn't have a touch screen and people want to see that working this year so I'm continuing my search. Regards, Eric Eric Damery Vice President Software Product Management Freedom Scientific 11800 31st Court North St. Petersburg, FL 33716 727-299-6110 For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: http://www.jaws-users.com/help/ For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: http://www.jaws-users.com/help/ For answers to frequently asked questions about this list visit: http://www.jaws-users.com/help/
